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If you are super into the realistic simulation (or German  ) I agree this game is probably not the best, at least without mods. It's absurdly "easy" and it's basically impossible to not have a well working city. Things aren't really dependent on each other or effect each other in ways you'd expect. Hell I didn't even realize police stations existed in the game because crime is, as far as I can tell, not programmed into the game. That being said, I don't have a massive city, but that's been the case so far for the past 20+ hours so I'm assuming.
I personally don't care about it. The illusion it gives of a living city is fantastic and I usually just want to create the prettiest city, not the most efficient. And let's face it it's not like there are any better sim games out there...
I can't wait till people mod it more so I can make it look more like New York or Chicago architecturally. Right now every city looks like Helsinki or something.
BTW for the person that wondered if there was a more medieval or historical game like this, have you played Anno 1404? It's not really exactly in the vein of a sim city type game, but it sure is good.
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Anno 1404 is actually the closest game to the old Tilted Mill style games (I think it is even better than the futuristic one). Tropico is not bad either. However they don't have the same feel as the old style City Builder Games I think. I'm not sure but I think the main issue I have are that the newer games feel more sandboxy in that the cities you build have less character.
Basically, the problem I see is that your cities all end up looking/optimizing the same way because the games tend towards favoring generalist cities. This reduces re-playability for me. Once I get the optimal city, then that's really it. It isn't like say Pharoah where you are founding a gem colony to produce luxury goods while getting constantly raided by barbarians. Or in SimCity 4 where you create a small city next to a big city to provide services to the big city.
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Of course the simulation will never be perfect, but if "parks create negative commercial demand" as LaNague said is true, it's a legitimate and unnecessary issue that should be patched as with any similar stupidities.
I've really had a great time with this game so far, very addictive. First city builder I've played in a long time.
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On March 14 2015 07:43 11cc wrote:
Of course the simulation will never be perfect, but if "parks create negative commercial demand" as LaNague said is true, it's a legitimate and unnecessary issue that should be patched as with any similar stupidities.
I've really had a great time with this game so far, very addictive. First city builder I've played in a long time.
Oh I agree, The park one sounds like something that deserves a fix but as I said initially I don't know what sort of volume is needed for a noticeable effect.
The services leveling is also a very lazy way of doing it and while you have to actively exploit it, its something that should probably not have been in the game in the first place.
The worker issue is a little more complicated. I would like there to be some penalty, like production decrease if your commute is to long (with a suitable notification) but the 65k people on the road limit makes that hard to enforce, hence why it is not in the game.
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On March 13 2015 05:05 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 04:53 LaNague wrote:On March 13 2015 00:36 Chro wrote:On March 12 2015 06:07 LaNague wrote:i found several crippling flaws in the simulation, read and you will possibly destroy your enjoyment of the game This game isnt that great yet. + Show Spoiler +
If workers cant find a path to work or get stuck in traffic for too long, it will not affect anything.
To test it, i made industril zones disconnected from residental and the workers will just stay home, but will still work there until they die.
This kills any incentive you have to keep commute times reasonable or even possible.
Buildings upgrade simply based on the number of service buidlings in the area, it can be 5 useless hospitals in a row, or 5 schools to upgrade an industrial area.
I have the suspicion they did this because upgrading based on landvalue/education and services would mean everyone always has max upgrades because the game is weay too easy.
Bus stations attract people even if they cant handle the load, combine with my first flaw and you can empty all the streets by trapping workers in bus stations, it has no consequence that they never reach work again.
Good news is that anything involving FREIGHT works flawlessly from what i can tell. So its a design decision to have the people simulation being all fluff and no substance. So they either have to add the possibility to add consequences for bad city management or fix it themselves. Overall, the game is very easy even without abusing the simulation, i hope substance will get added because the whole traffic management is a pretty good base for a game. Unsure why this is a big deal, it reminds me of people complaining in skyrim that you can do an infinite loop of making potions to make your enchanting better so you can make better alchemy enchantments on armor and just get insane +% with potions and gear. Its only an issue if you, as a player, exploit it. If you worry about traffic just as much and keep on fixing it so it works correctly then its a non-issue. Its not like you can 'win' at this game anyways. You're only cheating to make your city better for.... no idea. So you feel like you beat the game or something? commute times have zero effect, thats what this results into when you dont intentionally exploit. Which is weak for a game that claims to simulate individual people. a dev explained it on the forum. LinkyBasically there is a hard limit of 65k people on the road at any time for performance reasons. This means they cannot guarantee that every citizen will go to their workplace on a regular basis. Hence why there is no real penalty to not having a home/work connection.
Doesn't that mean traffic will automatically become better in a huge city, since when you hit 65k and keep growing traffic density will always go down?
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i have been banned from the cities discussion for my "negativity" when all i did was point out to people with city issues which bug affected them.
My respect for this developer is nearing about zero.
For the workers, my proposition was to add negative impact to the workers who are actually late/dont arrive, this completely avoids issues with the 65k cap.
We all can just wait and look what the patches bring and if the devs are willing to fix any simulation issues.
Btw i am pretty sure the sample city had negative balannce because it used no tayxes for the sake of building up faster.
Doesn't that mean traffic will automatically become better in a huge city, since when you hit 65k and keep growing traffic density will always go down?
65k is the number of people out of buildings at a time, not sure what the average percentage of people outside of buildings is, but there is a cap where it gets easier.
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On March 14 2015 08:09 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 05:05 Gorsameth wrote:On March 13 2015 04:53 LaNague wrote:On March 13 2015 00:36 Chro wrote:On March 12 2015 06:07 LaNague wrote:i found several crippling flaws in the simulation, read and you will possibly destroy your enjoyment of the game This game isnt that great yet. + Show Spoiler +
If workers cant find a path to work or get stuck in traffic for too long, it will not affect anything.
To test it, i made industril zones disconnected from residental and the workers will just stay home, but will still work there until they die.
This kills any incentive you have to keep commute times reasonable or even possible.
Buildings upgrade simply based on the number of service buidlings in the area, it can be 5 useless hospitals in a row, or 5 schools to upgrade an industrial area.
I have the suspicion they did this because upgrading based on landvalue/education and services would mean everyone always has max upgrades because the game is weay too easy.
Bus stations attract people even if they cant handle the load, combine with my first flaw and you can empty all the streets by trapping workers in bus stations, it has no consequence that they never reach work again.
Good news is that anything involving FREIGHT works flawlessly from what i can tell. So its a design decision to have the people simulation being all fluff and no substance. So they either have to add the possibility to add consequences for bad city management or fix it themselves. Overall, the game is very easy even without abusing the simulation, i hope substance will get added because the whole traffic management is a pretty good base for a game. Unsure why this is a big deal, it reminds me of people complaining in skyrim that you can do an infinite loop of making potions to make your enchanting better so you can make better alchemy enchantments on armor and just get insane +% with potions and gear. Its only an issue if you, as a player, exploit it. If you worry about traffic just as much and keep on fixing it so it works correctly then its a non-issue. Its not like you can 'win' at this game anyways. You're only cheating to make your city better for.... no idea. So you feel like you beat the game or something? commute times have zero effect, thats what this results into when you dont intentionally exploit. Which is weak for a game that claims to simulate individual people. a dev explained it on the forum. LinkyBasically there is a hard limit of 65k people on the road at any time for performance reasons. This means they cannot guarantee that every citizen will go to their workplace on a regular basis. Hence why there is no real penalty to not having a home/work connection. Doesn't that mean traffic will automatically become better in a huge city, since when you hit 65k and keep growing traffic density will always go down?
Yes, at some point you will hit the 65k cap consistently and after that relative traffic will reduce.
Note tho that the 65k is no just your population. Its the population that is actively on the move, Those inside their homes/work/commerce are not counted for this cap.
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Seriously just play the game, I think this is the only place on the web where the discussion about the game is negative.
The game is amazing, the simulation is working great and is logic, which is more than can be said of everything since simcity 4000 (well anno serie is good too but it's not the same). Most of the people I know restarted their cities half a dozen times because they failed and went bankrupt.
There is so much things to do and it works so well that focusing on dumb points is dumb. Parks reducing demand will be fixed (and already is from mods), separating industry and the rest works but is far from optimal, there already are tons of awesome mods and maps. Have you tried to reach the 65k cap ? Because it'll take you like 50 hours or something, I haven't still seen a city with more than 600k population and it doesn't reach the cap. And necessitate a LOT of hours.
Being negative about this game has to be a conscious effort "oh well everyone is unanimous so I'll be hype and say the game sux even tho it's the best city builder ever". A hiptser nerd as Tasteless would say xD
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Seems like another forgettable game that's not for me then.
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Thank god I realized you could change the colors of individual mass transit lines. My brother and I just had fun for hours doing nothing but putting optimal bus and subway lines in my city. They mass transit view is now basically just my default view i like it so much. There's something so satisfying about seeing those little colorful people getting on and off those little colorful buses...
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On March 14 2015 13:46 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Seems like another forgettable game that's not for me then.
your loss, really.
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On March 14 2015 14:16 DannyJ wrote:
Thank god I realized you could change the colors of individual mass transit lines. My brother and I just had fun for hours doing nothing but putting optimal bus and subway lines in my city. They mass transit view is now basically just my default view i like it so much. There's something so satisfying about seeing those little colorful people getting on and off those little colorful buses...
How do you do it for the metro? I figured out buses but I never discovered how to select a subway line.
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On March 14 2015 21:53 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 14:16 DannyJ wrote:
Thank god I realized you could change the colors of individual mass transit lines. My brother and I just had fun for hours doing nothing but putting optimal bus and subway lines in my city. They mass transit view is now basically just my default view i like it so much. There's something so satisfying about seeing those little colorful people getting on and off those little colorful buses... How do you do it for the metro? I figured out buses but I never discovered how to select a subway line.
Go to the transport info view. You can click on any line now and change its properties. The building mode has to be closed obviously.
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Good thing is that its supported by Mods and hopefully hardcore fans will be able to fix these things incase the developer doesnt.
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On March 14 2015 07:42 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Anno 1404 is actually the closest game to the old Tilted Mill style games (I think it is even better than the futuristic one). Tropico is not bad either. However they don't have the same feel as the old style City Builder Games I think. I'm not sure but I think the main issue I have are that the newer games feel more sandboxy in that the cities you build have less character.
Basically, the problem I see is that your cities all end up looking/optimizing the same way because the games tend towards favoring generalist cities. This reduces re-playability for me. Once I get the optimal city, then that's really it. It isn't like say Pharoah where you are founding a gem colony to produce luxury goods while getting constantly raided by barbarians. Or in SimCity 4 where you create a small city next to a big city to provide services to the big city.
Kinda agree with anno, though it would be much better without the awkward battle... (especially land battle)
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seriously we didnt ask for much all these years did we?? I am having such a great time building my city haha. I am not even good at city building games (takes ages to figure out stuffs etc) but this is all i ask for, no bug no shitty designs etc etc.
20k population city aye mayor of the year
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tRcw8os.png)
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Having a lot of fun, gotten 2 cities to 100k then kinda stalled out.
What are some good ways to avoid traffic? I've been trying doing districts with one big outer one way road connected to main roads which has helped some. These dead bodies keep piling up no matter what I do it seems.
What are some good ways to get nice looking curved roads (like parallel ones and stuff).
Any point in setting zoning regulations? Anyone play around with taxes?
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On March 15 2015 02:25 BurningSera wrote:
I'm not gonna lie, that's one beautiful city you got there.
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There's a mod that disables the despawning of cars btw: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=407335588
On March 15 2015 03:04 ticklishmusic wrote:
Having a lot of fun, gotten 2 cities to 100k then kinda stalled out.
What are some good ways to avoid traffic? I've been trying doing districts with one big outer one way road connected to main roads which has helped some. These dead bodies keep piling up no matter what I do it seems.
What are some good ways to get nice looking curved roads (like parallel ones and stuff).
Any point in setting zoning regulations? Anyone play around with taxes?
Public transport. Pedestrian paths. As few intersections as possible. Go from small to medium to large roads. Don't connect your small ones to the big traffic backbones. This might help as well if your cars pile up in a single lane all the time: http://i.imgur.com/F8eKjp5.jpg
I haven't played around with policies much other than the ones that raise land value. Money isn't a problem after a certain point at normal difficulty and traffic manages itself if you make use of a smart road layout.
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On March 14 2015 08:15 LaNague wrote:i have been banned from the cities discussion for my "negativity" when all i did was point out to people with city issues which bug affected them. My respect for this developer is nearing about zero. For the workers, my proposition was to add negative impact to the workers who are actually late/dont arrive, this completely avoids issues with the 65k cap. We all can just wait and look what the patches bring and if the devs are willing to fix any simulation issues. Btw i am pretty sure the sample city had negative balannce because it used no tayxes for the sake of building up faster. Show nested quote +Doesn't that mean traffic will automatically become better in a huge city, since when you hit 65k and keep growing traffic density will always go down? 65k is the number of people out of buildings at a time, not sure what the average percentage of people outside of buildings is, but there is a cap where it gets easier. Oh wow, they banned you? Right after asking to elaborate? That's just disgusting behaviour. Not to mention that the developers seem totally disinterested in fixing this issue, which is basically half the gameplay of every simcity style game ever.
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On March 15 2015 04:56 Don_Julio wrote:There's a mod that disables the despawning of cars btw: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=407335588Show nested quote +On March 15 2015 03:04 ticklishmusic wrote:
Having a lot of fun, gotten 2 cities to 100k then kinda stalled out.
What are some good ways to avoid traffic? I've been trying doing districts with one big outer one way road connected to main roads which has helped some. These dead bodies keep piling up no matter what I do it seems.
What are some good ways to get nice looking curved roads (like parallel ones and stuff).
Any point in setting zoning regulations? Anyone play around with taxes? Public transport. Pedestrian paths. As few intersections as possible. Go from small to medium to large roads. Don't connect your small ones to the big traffic backbones. This might help as well if your cars pile up in a single lane all the time: http://i.imgur.com/F8eKjp5.jpgI haven't played around with policies much other than the ones that raise land value. Money isn't a problem after a certain point at normal difficulty and traffic manages itself if you make use of a smart road layout. That's just totally anti-intuitive and illogical that you have to artifically create bottlenecks to remove traffic jams.
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EPT
