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On March 13 2015 00:08 KaiserJohan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 06:07 LaNague wrote:i found several crippling flaws in the simulation, read and you will possibly destroy your enjoyment of the game This game isnt that great yet. + Show Spoiler +
If workers cant find a path to work or get stuck in traffic for too long, it will not affect anything.
To test it, i made industril zones disconnected from residental and the workers will just stay home, but will still work there until they die.
This kills any incentive you have to keep commute times reasonable or even possible.
Buildings upgrade simply based on the number of service buidlings in the area, it can be 5 useless hospitals in a row, or 5 schools to upgrade an industrial area.
I have the suspicion they did this because upgrading based on landvalue/education and services would mean everyone always has max upgrades because the game is weay too easy.
Bus stations attract people even if they cant handle the load, combine with my first flaw and you can empty all the streets by trapping workers in bus stations, it has no consequence that they never reach work again.
Good news is that anything involving FREIGHT works flawlessly from what i can tell. So its a design decision to have the people simulation being all fluff and no substance. So they either have to add the possibility to add consequences for bad city management or fix it themselves. Overall, the game is very easy even without abusing the simulation, i hope substance will get added because the whole traffic management is a pretty good base for a game. This sounds very disheartening, if commuting/traffic is as pointless as you say. Also I enjoyed the difficulty and min/maxing of the older Caesar/Pharaoh/Zeus games. Is this game too easy? Is there no punishment for failing?
It depends, what is your definition of failing? If your city is a jumbled mess, your garbage and funeral services may not be adequate and dead bodies might start to pile up, causing people to get sick or leave your city. If you accidentally plop down a water tower near a pollution source, you may cause a death spiral in your city. If you place a dam incorrectly you may flood the whole thing.
I feel like for a lot of people, myself included, this game will be a lot like Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress, etc. in that it really is what you make of it. There is no win condition and it is fairly difficult to hit a loss condition as well. But if you are a tinkerer, and enjoy trying to make the biggest, prettiest, or most efficient city, there is something here for you. If you are a min/maxer, I think there is a lot to enjoy as long as you are not dependent on having a win/loss condition. There is always a slightly better way you could have designed something so that it was a little more efficient.
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On March 12 2015 06:07 LaNague wrote:i found several crippling flaws in the simulation, read and you will possibly destroy your enjoyment of the game This game isnt that great yet. + Show Spoiler +
If workers cant find a path to work or get stuck in traffic for too long, it will not affect anything.
To test it, i made industril zones disconnected from residental and the workers will just stay home, but will still work there until they die.
This kills any incentive you have to keep commute times reasonable or even possible.
Buildings upgrade simply based on the number of service buidlings in the area, it can be 5 useless hospitals in a row, or 5 schools to upgrade an industrial area.
I have the suspicion they did this because upgrading based on landvalue/education and services would mean everyone always has max upgrades because the game is weay too easy.
Bus stations attract people even if they cant handle the load, combine with my first flaw and you can empty all the streets by trapping workers in bus stations, it has no consequence that they never reach work again.
Good news is that anything involving FREIGHT works flawlessly from what i can tell. So its a design decision to have the people simulation being all fluff and no substance. So they either have to add the possibility to add consequences for bad city management or fix it themselves. Overall, the game is very easy even without abusing the simulation, i hope substance will get added because the whole traffic management is a pretty good base for a game.
Unsure why this is a big deal, it reminds me of people complaining in skyrim that you can do an infinite loop of making potions to make your enchanting better so you can make better alchemy enchantments on armor and just get insane +% with potions and gear.
Its only an issue if you, as a player, exploit it. If you worry about traffic just as much and keep on fixing it so it works correctly then its a non-issue. Its not like you can 'win' at this game anyways. You're only cheating to make your city better for.... no idea. So you feel like you beat the game or something?
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god i am getting this after work today. been nearly a decade for a proper city builder ffs
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I love the game play so far, the control on the other hand leaves much to be desired. And those MS paint icons...
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France7248 Posts
really good game, though they could improve the construction of roads
I find it really weird too that bus lines must make a full circle and can't go from point A to point B
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On March 13 2015 01:10 Yhamm wrote:
really good game, though they could improve the construction of roads
I find it really weird too that bus lines must make a full circle and can't go from point A to point B
At some point a bus must always go back to A so I don't see how any bus line can not be circular.
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France7248 Posts
On March 13 2015 01:21 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 01:10 Yhamm wrote:
really good game, though they could improve the construction of roads
I find it really weird too that bus lines must make a full circle and can't go from point A to point B At some point a bus must always go back to A so I don't see how any bus line can not be circular.
roads are not all in 1 way? 
or can you actually make them go back by the same road? I didn't try that...
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On March 12 2015 06:07 LaNague wrote:i found several crippling flaws in the simulation, read and you will possibly destroy your enjoyment of the game This game isnt that great yet. + Show Spoiler +
If workers cant find a path to work or get stuck in traffic for too long, it will not affect anything.
To test it, i made industril zones disconnected from residental and the workers will just stay home, but will still work there until they die.
This kills any incentive you have to keep commute times reasonable or even possible.
Buildings upgrade simply based on the number of service buidlings in the area, it can be 5 useless hospitals in a row, or 5 schools to upgrade an industrial area.
I have the suspicion they did this because upgrading based on landvalue/education and services would mean everyone always has max upgrades because the game is weay too easy.
Bus stations attract people even if they cant handle the load, combine with my first flaw and you can empty all the streets by trapping workers in bus stations, it has no consequence that they never reach work again.
Good news is that anything involving FREIGHT works flawlessly from what i can tell. So its a design decision to have the people simulation being all fluff and no substance. So they either have to add the possibility to add consequences for bad city management or fix it themselves. Overall, the game is very easy even without abusing the simulation, i hope substance will get added because the whole traffic management is a pretty good base for a game.
As someone else mentioned I thought there was a penalty for the worker thing? It doesn't completely shut down the workplace but I don't think it's 100% magically working fine. Could be. Plausible that they also did this because they aren't perfectly happy with the traffic routing yet (the traffic isn't always great at using multiple lanes and can bottleneck even on wide roads sometimes) which is something they're actively working on. Once traffic behaves to their standards I could see them making worker travel more accurate/strict.
Game isn't too difficult but it's been a while since I've played anything like this so I'm just enjoying it for what it's worth so far. Isn't there a hard mode in the mod options? Not sure what it does but one could look into that if they're not satisfied with how easy the game starts off.
I'm not a fan of the whole "we'll release this and then keep applying major patches for the next months" thing that seems to be so common lately, but of all those cases Cities: Skylines feels like the one where the most substance was in before release, and the planned changes are already deep in the active pipeline and should hit sooner than later I'd bet. I've enjoyed it so far.
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On March 13 2015 01:24 Yhamm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 01:21 Gorsameth wrote:On March 13 2015 01:10 Yhamm wrote:
really good game, though they could improve the construction of roads
I find it really weird too that bus lines must make a full circle and can't go from point A to point B At some point a bus must always go back to A so I don't see how any bus line can not be circular. roads are not all in 1 way? or can you actually make them go back by the same road? I didn't try that...
They can take the same road if it's 2-way, have you never used local buses in real life? Works the same way here.
But yeah making my first bus lines was a good wake up call to what a mess my traffic system was.
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France7248 Posts
On March 13 2015 01:36 Vaelone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 01:24 Yhamm wrote:On March 13 2015 01:21 Gorsameth wrote:On March 13 2015 01:10 Yhamm wrote:
really good game, though they could improve the construction of roads
I find it really weird too that bus lines must make a full circle and can't go from point A to point B At some point a bus must always go back to A so I don't see how any bus line can not be circular. roads are not all in 1 way? or can you actually make them go back by the same road? I didn't try that... They can take the same road if it's 2-way, have you never used local buses in real life? Works the same way here. But yeah making my first bus lines was a good wake up call to what a mess my traffic system was.
I didn't realize that you could chose the way the bus was taking, I thought it was bus stop on both side of the road, since I'm only at the start with 2 way roads
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In Murica, bus routes generally only go 1 way (partly because there are many one way roads). When take a bus to A to B it might take 10 min but from B to A it might take 45 min, and if it's not circular you gonna end up with a bunch buses at middle of nowhere.
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They still have to make the return trip, else you just end up stacking buses at point B. Sometimes it is necessary to send a bus back empty so it reaches the destination faster, but it seems weird doing that every single time for most routes. It's ussually more efficient to send them back working.
Here what often happens is that the bus doesnt actually have a circular route, but there is another station/parking lot at the end of the line and you have the A-B route and the B-A route, so you can adjust the timing of the return trip to a better timeslot. But that's a bit too complicated to a simcity game and circular routes just make more sense.
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Looks like really good game. I might buy it when I have money 
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On March 13 2015 03:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Looks like really good game. I might buy it when I have money
It will only get better, too. Colossal Order is going to work at the game for a long time. Keep in mind that they will release a lot of DLC alongside free patches and the DLC will drain your wallet if the quality is close to what I'm used to from Paradox' games.
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Is there a game like this that takes places in the middle ages or antiquity?
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On March 13 2015 00:36 Chro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 06:07 LaNague wrote:i found several crippling flaws in the simulation, read and you will possibly destroy your enjoyment of the game This game isnt that great yet. + Show Spoiler +
If workers cant find a path to work or get stuck in traffic for too long, it will not affect anything.
To test it, i made industril zones disconnected from residental and the workers will just stay home, but will still work there until they die.
This kills any incentive you have to keep commute times reasonable or even possible.
Buildings upgrade simply based on the number of service buidlings in the area, it can be 5 useless hospitals in a row, or 5 schools to upgrade an industrial area.
I have the suspicion they did this because upgrading based on landvalue/education and services would mean everyone always has max upgrades because the game is weay too easy.
Bus stations attract people even if they cant handle the load, combine with my first flaw and you can empty all the streets by trapping workers in bus stations, it has no consequence that they never reach work again.
Good news is that anything involving FREIGHT works flawlessly from what i can tell. So its a design decision to have the people simulation being all fluff and no substance. So they either have to add the possibility to add consequences for bad city management or fix it themselves. Overall, the game is very easy even without abusing the simulation, i hope substance will get added because the whole traffic management is a pretty good base for a game. Unsure why this is a big deal, it reminds me of people complaining in skyrim that you can do an infinite loop of making potions to make your enchanting better so you can make better alchemy enchantments on armor and just get insane +% with potions and gear. Its only an issue if you, as a player, exploit it. If you worry about traffic just as much and keep on fixing it so it works correctly then its a non-issue. Its not like you can 'win' at this game anyways. You're only cheating to make your city better for.... no idea. So you feel like you beat the game or something?
commute times have zero effect, thats what this results into when you dont intentionally exploit.
Which is weak for a game that claims to simulate individual people.
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On March 13 2015 04:35 SixStrings wrote:
Is there a game like this that takes places in the middle ages or antiquity?
Banished comes pretty close but it's more a village builder not a city builder. Other than that maybe Stronghold but it's mostly combat focused. For antiquity the good, old Caesar games. Maybe someone creates a full-conversion mod for C:S.
On March 13 2015 04:53 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 00:36 Chro wrote:On March 12 2015 06:07 LaNague wrote:i found several crippling flaws in the simulation, read and you will possibly destroy your enjoyment of the game This game isnt that great yet. + Show Spoiler +
If workers cant find a path to work or get stuck in traffic for too long, it will not affect anything.
To test it, i made industril zones disconnected from residental and the workers will just stay home, but will still work there until they die.
This kills any incentive you have to keep commute times reasonable or even possible.
Buildings upgrade simply based on the number of service buidlings in the area, it can be 5 useless hospitals in a row, or 5 schools to upgrade an industrial area.
I have the suspicion they did this because upgrading based on landvalue/education and services would mean everyone always has max upgrades because the game is weay too easy.
Bus stations attract people even if they cant handle the load, combine with my first flaw and you can empty all the streets by trapping workers in bus stations, it has no consequence that they never reach work again.
Good news is that anything involving FREIGHT works flawlessly from what i can tell. So its a design decision to have the people simulation being all fluff and no substance. So they either have to add the possibility to add consequences for bad city management or fix it themselves. Overall, the game is very easy even without abusing the simulation, i hope substance will get added because the whole traffic management is a pretty good base for a game. Unsure why this is a big deal, it reminds me of people complaining in skyrim that you can do an infinite loop of making potions to make your enchanting better so you can make better alchemy enchantments on armor and just get insane +% with potions and gear. Its only an issue if you, as a player, exploit it. If you worry about traffic just as much and keep on fixing it so it works correctly then its a non-issue. Its not like you can 'win' at this game anyways. You're only cheating to make your city better for.... no idea. So you feel like you beat the game or something? commute times have zero effect, thats what this results into when you dont intentionally exploit. Which is weak for a game that claims to simulate individual people.
I kind of agree with their design decision. Citizens getting stuck in the traffic for infinite time could totally ruin a city if you had just a single jammed spot. Traffic jams still have severe negative effects: Your service cars get stuck and goods won't arrive at stores and industry which will result in abandoned and burned down buildings. It's a fair copromise. Traffic is important and quite a challenge to manage.
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On March 13 2015 04:53 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 00:36 Chro wrote:On March 12 2015 06:07 LaNague wrote:i found several crippling flaws in the simulation, read and you will possibly destroy your enjoyment of the game This game isnt that great yet. + Show Spoiler +
If workers cant find a path to work or get stuck in traffic for too long, it will not affect anything.
To test it, i made industril zones disconnected from residental and the workers will just stay home, but will still work there until they die.
This kills any incentive you have to keep commute times reasonable or even possible.
Buildings upgrade simply based on the number of service buidlings in the area, it can be 5 useless hospitals in a row, or 5 schools to upgrade an industrial area.
I have the suspicion they did this because upgrading based on landvalue/education and services would mean everyone always has max upgrades because the game is weay too easy.
Bus stations attract people even if they cant handle the load, combine with my first flaw and you can empty all the streets by trapping workers in bus stations, it has no consequence that they never reach work again.
Good news is that anything involving FREIGHT works flawlessly from what i can tell. So its a design decision to have the people simulation being all fluff and no substance. So they either have to add the possibility to add consequences for bad city management or fix it themselves. Overall, the game is very easy even without abusing the simulation, i hope substance will get added because the whole traffic management is a pretty good base for a game. Unsure why this is a big deal, it reminds me of people complaining in skyrim that you can do an infinite loop of making potions to make your enchanting better so you can make better alchemy enchantments on armor and just get insane +% with potions and gear. Its only an issue if you, as a player, exploit it. If you worry about traffic just as much and keep on fixing it so it works correctly then its a non-issue. Its not like you can 'win' at this game anyways. You're only cheating to make your city better for.... no idea. So you feel like you beat the game or something? commute times have zero effect, thats what this results into when you dont intentionally exploit. Which is weak for a game that claims to simulate individual people.
a dev explained it on the forum.Linky
Basically there is a hard limit of 65k people on the road at any time for performance reasons. This means they cannot guarantee that every citizen will go to their workplace on a regular basis. Hence why there is no real penalty to not having a home/work connection.
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On March 13 2015 02:08 ragz_gt wrote:
In Murica, bus routes generally only go 1 way (partly because there are many one way roads). When take a bus to A to B it might take 10 min but from B to A it might take 45 min, and if it's not circular you gonna end up with a bunch buses at middle of nowhere.
Isn't it that in big cities, buses routes tend to start and end at locations where they can turn around such as on train stations, bus depots or where otherwise there is a small amount of tarmac to do a U turn. This circular bus route concept is blowing my mind.
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On March 13 2015 05:05 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 04:53 LaNague wrote:On March 13 2015 00:36 Chro wrote:On March 12 2015 06:07 LaNague wrote:i found several crippling flaws in the simulation, read and you will possibly destroy your enjoyment of the game This game isnt that great yet. + Show Spoiler +
If workers cant find a path to work or get stuck in traffic for too long, it will not affect anything.
To test it, i made industril zones disconnected from residental and the workers will just stay home, but will still work there until they die.
This kills any incentive you have to keep commute times reasonable or even possible.
Buildings upgrade simply based on the number of service buidlings in the area, it can be 5 useless hospitals in a row, or 5 schools to upgrade an industrial area.
I have the suspicion they did this because upgrading based on landvalue/education and services would mean everyone always has max upgrades because the game is weay too easy.
Bus stations attract people even if they cant handle the load, combine with my first flaw and you can empty all the streets by trapping workers in bus stations, it has no consequence that they never reach work again.
Good news is that anything involving FREIGHT works flawlessly from what i can tell. So its a design decision to have the people simulation being all fluff and no substance. So they either have to add the possibility to add consequences for bad city management or fix it themselves. Overall, the game is very easy even without abusing the simulation, i hope substance will get added because the whole traffic management is a pretty good base for a game. Unsure why this is a big deal, it reminds me of people complaining in skyrim that you can do an infinite loop of making potions to make your enchanting better so you can make better alchemy enchantments on armor and just get insane +% with potions and gear. Its only an issue if you, as a player, exploit it. If you worry about traffic just as much and keep on fixing it so it works correctly then its a non-issue. Its not like you can 'win' at this game anyways. You're only cheating to make your city better for.... no idea. So you feel like you beat the game or something? commute times have zero effect, thats what this results into when you dont intentionally exploit. Which is weak for a game that claims to simulate individual people. a dev explained it on the forum. LinkyBasically there is a hard limit of 65k people on the road at any time for performance reasons. This means they cannot guarantee that every citizen will go to their workplace on a regular basis. Hence why there is no real penalty to not having a home/work connection.
its a stupid logic that i cant understand and i allready responded to the CEO, i started the whole thread afterall.
You can just check if the dispatched sims reach the destination.
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EPT
