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Renamed To ASL20 General Discussion.
WARNING: Contains Spoilers |
With the Ro24 over, what did you think of it? Any groups caught your interest? A map you loved or hated? A player who surprised you or shocked you? What do you think the Ro16 groups will look like? anything about the Ro24 you thought was interesting, talk about it here!
some of my thoughts
+ Show Spoiler +
For me Bisu showed up a bit more well put together than in previous seasons. It might be too early to call but he seemed to deal with Speed quite well, albeit Speed put himself into a difficult situation with his choice of BO. Word is he increased the size of his BW client window, and that he might have switched to a wireless mouse on Flash's advice. Could this have been holding him back for all these past seasons? I am really curiois to find out in the Ro16 where he will be tested for real. High expectations from him which I usually don't have.
similarly SoMa looked in great shape. His multitasking, macro, and micro all looked superb in his two games. whichever group he goes into, probably as one of the last to be picked, i am confident he will get out and go to Ro8. possibly at the expense of a first seed in that group.
Jaedong likewise looked more solid. decisive and confident. Two things he seemed to be lacking in prior years when you could see self-doubt in his play. He even talked about his self-doubt on stream and in interviews. If regaining his confidence is what is required for him to ascend yet again, I hope this season is the one where he stays confident for long enough to get far into the tournament.
Calm and Hyun I expected to show up out of shape because their activity was very low going into the qualifiers, and remained low after. I was not wrong. Their play looked uninspired and sloppy. And if there is one thing you can't be in ZvZ it is being sloppy. ZvZ in particular exposes your discipline and physical preparedness. Once again feels like their spots in ASL were wasted on them. Would have much rather seen two players who put in more work to show up in peak condition. Harsh words but sadly it is true.
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One question first: do we need spoilers here ?
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On August 28 2025 21:41 prosatan wrote:
One question first: do we need spoilers here ?
Surely not. Who in their right mind would open this thread if they're trying to avoid spoilers?
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On August 28 2025 21:50 pseudosignal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2025 21:41 prosatan wrote:
One question first: do we need spoilers here ? Surely not. Who in their right mind would open this thread if they're trying to avoid spoilers?
agree 100% pseudosignal!
ok then: i am sad for hero , happy for JD and Bisu.
I knew Royal won't make it and i wouldn't bet any money on BTS! But good for him
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And i also found out that RO24 groups are made and not random!
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On August 28 2025 21:52 prosatan wrote:
And i also found out that RO24 groups are made and not random!
how so? i thougt its tiered based but still random system - i.e anyone from t1 can match with anyone from other tiers?
as for the results - only real surprise for me was hero going out like he did, i mean he was in ro16 for like 10 season in a row and constantly also making ro8/ro4?
my fav player JD did well, and as Artosis mentioned - he is in very good shape recently, i feel he can win vs anyone but light right now(yes even vs SK), hope he keeps his form and increases the amount of practice, because ASL is a long tournament.
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Larva surprised me. He really didn't look to be in great condition and I was convinced it was Ample's year to advance - not because of the ladder rating but because of the clear work he's put into his play.
JYJ looked unwell. Expected Speed to beat Bisu tbh.
Mini is hilarious. An amazing player who makes CPL tier mistakes. I truly love his clown show games.
Rush kinda underperformed it feels like. But credit where it's due - Jaedong is in monster mode. I'd be more excited but we already have a bunch of god Zergs. Guess hero threw to balance the universe.
Dunno what to think of BarrackS. Could be a dark horse but capable of feats of transcendent retardation. He's a Terran Mini lol
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On August 28 2025 22:02 Zografa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2025 21:52 prosatan wrote:
And i also found out that RO24 groups are made and not random! how so? i thougt its tiered based but still random system - i.e anyone from t1 can match with anyone from other tiers? as for the results - only real surprise for me was hero going out like he did, i mean he was in ro16 for like 10 season in a row and constantly also making ro8/ro4? my fav player JD did well, and as Artosis mentioned - he is in very good shape recently, i feel he can win vs anyone but light right now(yes even vs SK), hope he keeps his form and increases the amount of practice, because ASL is a long tournament.
i swear i read it here on TL ! and i wasn't surprised because how else you get a group full of zergs??
and yes , i know that every group must have tier 1 , 2 , and 4 players..
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On August 28 2025 22:26 prosatan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2025 22:02 Zografa wrote:On August 28 2025 21:52 prosatan wrote:
And i also found out that RO24 groups are made and not random! how so? i thougt its tiered based but still random system - i.e anyone from t1 can match with anyone from other tiers? as for the results - only real surprise for me was hero going out like he did, i mean he was in ro16 for like 10 season in a row and constantly also making ro8/ro4? my fav player JD did well, and as Artosis mentioned - he is in very good shape recently, i feel he can win vs anyone but light right now(yes even vs SK), hope he keeps his form and increases the amount of practice, because ASL is a long tournament. i swear i read it here on TL ! and i wasn't surprised because how else you get a group full of zergs?? and yes , i know that every group must have tier 1 , 2 , and 4 players..
if anything group full of zergs is not confirming the argument of rigged groups, why would they do such a thing? its boring for viewers and u cant actually create meaningful advantage for someone with todays zvz(as seen even hero, tier 1 lost vs tier4 zerg.
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Netherlands5065 Posts
My thoughts about the rest of the tournament to come, which is not really answering OP.
+ Show Spoiler +
Soulkey has a lot of power in making last Ro16 changes, therefore we can expect him to advance Ro8.
Because of previous ASL results Soulkey is still the favourite to go to the finals (and win).
Who else do I expect to survive the Ro16?
Best, he's also a top seed with power and has made Ro8 often enough.
Who won't survive Ro16?
BTS, Sharp, Barracks, Speed
I'm still not convinced of Speed, I don't believe he's better than peak Sharp. nor are BTS and BarrackS.
This leaves 10 possible contenders to fill out the Ro8:
Soma, JD, Effort, Larva, Bisu, Light, Snow, Queen, Mini, Rush
Who do I not see winning ASL:
Queen, Snow, Light, Rush.
Queen in Ro24 looked so bad...
Snow & Light are supposedly slumping a bit as of late.
Rush just seems incapable, honestly. If it wasn't for last season, Best would be on this list as well.
Effort can win the whole thing as long as he dodges Bisu, Snow and Mini
JD can beat anyone in the Ro8 but Effort.
Soma seems strong, but his previous ASL results don't look convincing.
I don't see Larva surviving ZvZ in his current form, maybe vs Queen.
Now back to my first paragraph: If Soulkey will be a finalist again. Who can beat him?
My top picks would be, in order: Effort, Best, Bisu, Soma, JD, Mini.
Soulkey doesn't appear to be looking as hot if I check his MPL results.
Snow and Light would be my bias favourites to reach the Ro4, but TMNT convinced me they're too busy being dads, hence I also don't name them as contenders to beat Soulkey in a final, even though I can totally see either one beat Soulkey.
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On August 28 2025 23:20 Peeano wrote:My thoughts about the rest of the tournament to come, which is not really answering OP. + Show Spoiler +
Soulkey has a lot of power in making last Ro16 changes, therefore we can expect him to advance Ro8.
Because of previous ASL results Soulkey is still the favourite to go to the finals (and win).
Who else do I expect to survive the Ro16?
Best, he's also a top seed with power and has made Ro8 often enough.
Who won't survive Ro16?
BTS, Sharp, Barracks, Speed
I'm still not convinced of Speed, I don't believe he's better than peak Sharp. nor are BTS and BarrackS.
This leaves 10 possible contenders to fill out the Ro8:
Soma, JD, Effort, Larva, Bisu, Light, Snow, Queen, Mini, Rush
Who do I not see winning ASL:
Queen, Snow, Light, Rush.
Queen in Ro24 looked so bad...
Snow & Light are supposedly slumping a bit as of late.
Rush just seems incapable, honestly. If it wasn't for last season, Best would be on this list as well.
Effort can win the whole thing as long as he dodges Bisu, Snow and Mini
JD can beat anyone in the Ro8 but Effort.
Soma seems strong, but his previous ASL results don't look convincing.
I don't see Larva surviving ZvZ in his current form, maybe vs Queen.
Now back to my first paragraph: If Soulkey will be a finalist again. Who can beat him?
My top picks would be, in order: Effort, Best, Bisu, Soma, JD, Mini.
Soulkey doesn't appear to be looking as hot if I check his MPL results.
Snow and Light would be my bias favourites to reach the Ro4, but TMNT convinced me they're too busy being dads, hence I also don't name them as contenders to beat Soulkey in a final, even though I can totally see either one beat Soulkey.
The biggest threat to SK has always been ZvZ. In the other 2 matchups I don't really see anyone beating him in a bo series.
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Netherlands5065 Posts
On August 29 2025 00:32 bochs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2025 23:20 Peeano wrote:My thoughts about the rest of the tournament to come, which is not really answering OP. + Show Spoiler +
Soulkey has a lot of power in making last Ro16 changes, therefore we can expect him to advance Ro8.
Because of previous ASL results Soulkey is still the favourite to go to the finals (and win).
Who else do I expect to survive the Ro16?
Best, he's also a top seed with power and has made Ro8 often enough.
Who won't survive Ro16?
BTS, Sharp, Barracks, Speed
I'm still not convinced of Speed, I don't believe he's better than peak Sharp. nor are BTS and BarrackS.
This leaves 10 possible contenders to fill out the Ro8:
Soma, JD, Effort, Larva, Bisu, Light, Snow, Queen, Mini, Rush
Who do I not see winning ASL:
Queen, Snow, Light, Rush.
Queen in Ro24 looked so bad...
Snow & Light are supposedly slumping a bit as of late.
Rush just seems incapable, honestly. If it wasn't for last season, Best would be on this list as well.
Effort can win the whole thing as long as he dodges Bisu, Snow and Mini
JD can beat anyone in the Ro8 but Effort.
Soma seems strong, but his previous ASL results don't look convincing.
I don't see Larva surviving ZvZ in his current form, maybe vs Queen.
Now back to my first paragraph: If Soulkey will be a finalist again. Who can beat him?
My top picks would be, in order: Effort, Best, Bisu, Soma, JD, Mini.
Soulkey doesn't appear to be looking as hot if I check his MPL results.
Snow and Light would be my bias favourites to reach the Ro4, but TMNT convinced me they're too busy being dads, hence I also don't name them as contenders to beat Soulkey in a final, even though I can totally see either one beat Soulkey.
The biggest threat to SK has always been ZvZ. In the other 2 matchups I don't really see anyone beating him in a bo series.
That's fair. I think Soulkey is a bit overrated, especially since Best almost took him out. If Best can reach match point so can Bisu and Mini, who are no strangers to PvZ and playing best ofs.
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For me, having so many of the old dogs showing such great form was the story of the RO24.
Larva, Bisu, Jaedong, EffOrt, and Soma all looked absolutely fantastic. Every single one of those players should scare the piss out of the seeds.
Then you have Queen, Mini, Rush, BarrackS, Sharp and Speed making it out. Queen and Mini obviously being the scariest of the 2nd placers. The tournament looks stacked. BTS (True) is the only guy who didn't look all too impressive to get out of the Ro24 but his risky all-inish mind-game style that gives me Shine-vibes still poses a threat to anyone.
I'm looking forward to the Ro16.
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Roaring Currents is an interesting map and whoever vetoes it is a coward. I don't think that there haven't been nearly enough games played on it for anyone to actually make any reasonable evaluations of it in terms of balance and from how I've seen it play out in its occasional game in the daily pro leagues there are good arguments in favor of every race in almost any match up.
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The guy that wrote that SK is overrated based on last finals vs Best. Are you serious???
Sk literally gifted games on weird all ins, and weird risky plays, but once he just played normally, no chance for best. A Best that supposedly was playing like the best version of himself, with mental strength like never before. We can say Sk is crumbling, but to say that SK is overrated is non sense.
Adding to that he isnt only a 4 Time ASL champion in a row, but also a KSL champion. Title wise he is literally the most successful player in the modern broodwar era… The only thing that diminishes his accomplishments are the fact, that players like Flash, Last, Larva, past peak Rain, Soma and Effort for some time, and there is some form of perception or like situation where people feel that the missing of these stars and the perceived fluctuation of some tops players somehow allowed SK to be this dominat or break through.
Though Flash was already declining, and all these other players maybe were not declining or just couldnt keep up with the increase of SK and his consistency.
I mean it is hard to say that the general level of players is decreasing, when there are docent of top new players under them conistently trying to break through.
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On August 28 2025 22:07 pseudosignal wrote:
Larva surprised me. He really didn't look to be in great condition and I was convinced it was Ample's year to advance - not because of the ladder rating but because of the clear work he's put into his play.
JYJ looked unwell. Expected Speed to beat Bisu tbh.
Mini is hilarious. An amazing player who makes CPL tier mistakes. I truly love his clown show games.
Rush kinda underperformed it feels like. But credit where it's due - Jaedong is in monster mode. I'd be more excited but we already have a bunch of god Zergs. Guess hero threw to balance the universe.
Dunno what to think of BarrackS. Could be a dark horse but capable of feats of transcendent retardation. He's a Terran Mini lol
larva is smart and practices a lot of hours unlike rain who is probably smarter but doesn’t practice nearly as much
barracks is the new forgg
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Netherlands5065 Posts
"The guy" and then asking if I'm serious with 3 questions marks. I'm not basing SK being a bit (you forgot this part) overrated on just the last finals vs Best. Also lol at using past peak Rain for your argument and doing Soulkey dirty like that.
Are you serious???
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I think Soulkey is not gonna win this season. No particular reason. Just feel like the odds of winning 5 in a row is too slim, especially when there are so many Zergs and he may not be the best motivated after 4 peat, plus he's not lookin amazing online recently (although he never did, online)
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I don't see the Soulkey dominance anymore; I'm not sure if he's getting a bit worse or if others are getting better. JD is on a tear, though. His play lately has been such a joy to watch. His aggressive style might not be as consistent a way to win as Soulkey's approach, but it is surely more fun to watch.
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On August 29 2025 08:45 TMNT wrote:
I think Soulkey is not gonna win this season. No particular reason. Just feel like the odds of winning 5 in a row is too slim, especially when there are so many Zergs and he may not be the best motivated after 4 peat, plus he's not lookin amazing online recently (although he never did, online)
Soulkey did have periods where he looked amazing online, but these periods were never right before an ASL. Soulkey always gets into peak form whenever it is his time to play. Last four seasons he got progressively better online the deeper he got into the tournament, allegedly because his motivation increases along with his activity. What is different however is that after the first three wins he had a more dominant 2 months after in his online play. This time around the two months after he was not as dominant, and he was less active. We could take this as a sign of losing his competitive drive. I'd say it is too early to say, but it is not impossible.
Also his two only competitors over these past two years, Light, and SnOw, and for the last season a peaking Best who doesnt count for this specific comparison, are at their lowest points of activity in years. Whether this decreased activity will hurt their performance or whether it was just enough to stay in form is something we will find out in the ro16.
on paper this season is due to above reasons the perfect season for someone else to take the throne. SoMa, Bisu, Jaedong, Queen specifically come to mind with how the maps are rather zerg favored. Even Larva has a chance because his activity level is insanely high.
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EPT
