On July 11 2012 09:50 Jerubaal wrote: Bynum to Houston is begging for another Lamar Odom incident.
Completely agree with this. I think playing with Gasol and Kobe has made Bynum look better than he is. When he's the focal point of an offense, I'm not so optimistic he'll be very productive. Combine that with his volatile (aka douche bag like) personality and this has trainwreck written all over it for Houston.
But in saying that, Bynum's contract runs out at the end of next season so I guess it's a risk worth taking.
On July 10 2012 11:54 rei wrote: the knicks are not ganna go anywhere in the playoffs with plays like this
and this
it's not fucking happening man.
I'm not a blind Knicks fan, but picking two random youtube videos of Amare's well documented terrible defense hardly says anything. I can go find random clips of the Heat fucking up up on plays here or there, but it's hardly the basis for an argument.
The Knicks don't have a chance unless they get a top 3 seed in my opinion, and that's going to be very tough. Do I think it could possibly happen? Given the amount of turmoil (injury/coaching change/line-up change), I think it's a long shot but still conceivable.
I mean yea the Lakers get the best player but at a huge cost with no bench and having to win THIS YEAR before shit hits the drain. I dont even think they're better than OKC, San Antonio or the Clippers with Dwight. Dude is getting seriously overrated even though all these top tier wing players destroy his teams regularly.
I don't see why this is a bad trade for anyone under the circumstances.
ORL needs to get maximum value out of D12, but has its leverage compromised by the fact that everyone knows D12 is leaving. Further, D12 refusing to play ball and making it clear that he's not going to sign extensions with just any team he's traded to compromises ORL's leverage even more.
HOU is desperate for a star they can build around and have been accumulating assets such as draft picks, young/affordable talent, and cap space. They've failed to convince any of the top FAs to sign with them despite all of those assets, and will be left with a very mediocre team if they're unable to turn those assets into some top talent. Despite the fact that they have what ORL wants, their leverage is compromised by the fact that D12 has made it clear that he has no interest in playing there and will simply leave as a FA if he's traded. Fact is that, for some reason, none of the league's top players want to play in HOU, and it's only going to get harder for them since they don't have a single legitimate star and the rest of them are looking to team up together.
The Lakers have no cap space, no young/affordable talent, and no picks, but have the benefit of being probably the best city/franchise in the NBA, having existing star power, i.e. Nash, Kobe and Pau, to team up with, and have arguably the 2nd best Center in the league in Bynum.
Under these circumstances, it is arguably in HOU's best interest to go after Bynum since he's a legitimate star they can build around who, according to rumors, has expressed interest in playing there long-term. If true, he'd be the first player of that caliber to want to play in HOU since the Yao/T-Mac days. It is also arguably in ORL's best interest to work out a deal with HOU since they have the best assets for a rebuild, which is what they're going to be left doing after D12 leaves. The Lakers' benefit is obvious.
Just, wow.. you can actually tell who the different players are from the moves, incredibly well done and really cool to watch ;D
That's really cool.
Quick Guess: 1st Post all Kobe, 2nd all MJ (last one Pippen?), 3rd 1-4 Vince Carter, 5-10 Allen Iverson (thought some Tim Hardaway was in there at first).
On July 11 2012 09:50 Jerubaal wrote: That deal sounds like the NBA Player's Union sending a memo to Houston informing them that the stars, not the teams, decide who gets to win championships.
Bynum to Houston is begging for another Lamar Odom incident.
The difference is that it appears that Bynum wouldn't be blindsinded by the trade, has apparently listed HOU as one of his preferred destinations if he leaves the Lakers, and doesn't have the abandonment issues/fragile psyche that Odom has. All indications are that he wants to be the main guy for his own team, and wouldn't mind getting out from under Kobe's shadow.
On July 11 2012 09:54 RowdierBob wrote: It's difficult to speculate on Houston's long-term plans so yeah, I guess their follow up moves will determine what I really think about this trade. It does work for all three teams to an extent, but the Lakers getting the best of it by far (as always).
I feel bad for the Rockets since they've arguably positioned themselves as the ideal trading partner for ORL, but blame D12 for not wanting to play there. He hasn't even indicated that he would sign an extension with the Lakers, so they could arguably get screwed if he leaves them after one year. That would leave HOU with an Allstar Center who actually wants to be there as the team that probably comes out looking the best or, at worst, second.
On July 11 2012 10:10 XaI)CyRiC wrote: I don't see why this is a bad trade for anyone under the circumstances.
ORL needs to get maximum value out of D12, but has its leverage compromised by the fact that everyone knows D12 is leaving. Further, D12 refusing to play ball and making it clear that he's not going to sign extensions with just any team he's traded to compromises ORL's leverage even more.
HOU is desperate for a star they can build around and have been accumulating assets such as draft picks, young/affordable talent, and cap space. They've failed to convince any of the top FAs to sign with them despite all of those assets, and will be left with a very mediocre team if they're unable to turn those assets into some top talent. Despite the fact that they have what ORL wants, their leverage is compromised by the fact that D12 has made it clear that he has no interest in playing there and will simply leave as a FA if he's traded. Fact is that, for some reason, none of the league's top players want to play in HOU, and it's only going to get harder for them since they don't have a single legitimate star and the rest of them are looking to team up together.
The Lakers have no cap space, no young/affordable talent, and no picks, but have the benefit of being probably the best city/franchise in the NBA, having existing star power, i.e. Nash, Kobe and Pau, to team up with, and have arguably the 2nd best Center in the league in Bynum.
Under these circumstances, it is arguably in HOU's best interest to go after Bynum since he's a legitimate star they can build around who, according to rumors, has expressed interest in playing there long-term. If true, he'd be the first player of that caliber to want to play in HOU since the Yao/T-Mac days. It is also arguably in ORL's best interest to work out a deal with HOU since they have the best assets for a rebuild, which is what they're going to be left doing after D12 leaves. The Lakers' benefit is obvious.
This IS why it's a bad trade for Orlando though. I mean it's the best trade all things considered as you mention, but it's still not a great situation--they're losing their franchise piece for picks and young prospects (which is the best return you could hope for, but it's still depressing to lose such a good player).
Houston is taking a big gamble on a volatile talent with a documented history of knee problems. And Bynum is an UFA at the end of 2013 also! There's no guarantee he'll be staying any longer also.
The trade makes sense for all three teams--I agree. But that doesn't necessarily make it "good" for all of them. I think Houston is making a mistake, but it may be a gamble worth taking (I'd wait until 2013's mega FA class if I were them, but meh).
The Lakers are profiting from Orlando's unfortunate situation and using Houston to facilitate it. I don't have an issue with the deal at all for any team really--all things considered it's close enough to "fair value" but fact is this is just another example of the Lakers profiting from small-market misery.
On July 11 2012 09:50 Jerubaal wrote: Bynum to Houston is begging for another Lamar Odom incident.
Completely agree with this. I think playing with Gasol and Kobe has made Bynum look better than he is. When he's the focal point of an offense, I'm not so optimistic he'll be very productive. Combine that with his volatile (aka douche bag like) personality and this has trainwreck written all over it for Houston.
But in saying that, Bynum's contract runs out at the end of next season so I guess it's a risk worth taking.
I don't know. I've criticized Bynum plenty and have some doubts about him, but I think he's the real deal if he can stay healthy. He's shown glimpses of what he's capable of and it's impressive. He's still young and has improved every season he's been in the league. He has great post offense, great natural physical gifts that literally put him head and shoulders above 99% of the league, very respectable mid-range and FT shooting, soft hands that allow him to catch and convert very quickly and effectively, and is capable of dominating the paint on both ends of the court. He's gotten better at dealing with double teams, and has improved his consistency.
His main issue has always been his motivation and effort (specifically, that it's contingent on his offense), which arguably were due to him feeling like he deserved to have a bigger role on his team. On almost any other team in the league, he would be the #1 or #2 option on offense, and get a lot of shot attempts due to his efficiency and ability to collapse defenses. On the Lakers, he's the #2 or #3 option and will go long stretches without getting the ball due to Kobe and Pau. Put him on a team where he'll be the focal point of the offense, and he's almost certain to put out more consistent focus and effort.
Bynum wants to be a star and acts like it. On the Lakers, that gets him in trouble because he's playing with Kobe and Pau. Put him on the Rockets where he'll be their best player, and he'll be happier and produce like he's capable of, i.e. 20+/10+/1+ and great %s.
On July 11 2012 09:54 RowdierBob wrote: It's difficult to speculate on Houston's long-term plans so yeah, I guess their follow up moves will determine what I really think about this trade. It does work for all three teams to an extent, but the Lakers getting the best of it by far (as always).
I feel bad for the Rockets since they've arguably positioned themselves as the ideal trading partner for ORL, but blame D12 for not wanting to play there. He hasn't even indicated that he would sign an extension with the Lakers, so they could arguably get screwed if he leaves them after one year. That would leave HOU with an Allstar Center who actually wants to be there as the team that probably comes out looking the best or, at worst, second.
rashard lewis is official with the heats now? saw it on lebrons facebook page (lol!)
this is turning unbelievably scary. im sure with him playing on a championship team, he'll be more dedicated to playing at his best. none of that bullshit on the wizards
On July 11 2012 10:10 XaI)CyRiC wrote: I don't see why this is a bad trade for anyone under the circumstances.
ORL needs to get maximum value out of D12, but has its leverage compromised by the fact that everyone knows D12 is leaving. Further, D12 refusing to play ball and making it clear that he's not going to sign extensions with just any team he's traded to compromises ORL's leverage even more.
HOU is desperate for a star they can build around and have been accumulating assets such as draft picks, young/affordable talent, and cap space. They've failed to convince any of the top FAs to sign with them despite all of those assets, and will be left with a very mediocre team if they're unable to turn those assets into some top talent. Despite the fact that they have what ORL wants, their leverage is compromised by the fact that D12 has made it clear that he has no interest in playing there and will simply leave as a FA if he's traded. Fact is that, for some reason, none of the league's top players want to play in HOU, and it's only going to get harder for them since they don't have a single legitimate star and the rest of them are looking to team up together.
The Lakers have no cap space, no young/affordable talent, and no picks, but have the benefit of being probably the best city/franchise in the NBA, having existing star power, i.e. Nash, Kobe and Pau, to team up with, and have arguably the 2nd best Center in the league in Bynum.
Under these circumstances, it is arguably in HOU's best interest to go after Bynum since he's a legitimate star they can build around who, according to rumors, has expressed interest in playing there long-term. If true, he'd be the first player of that caliber to want to play in HOU since the Yao/T-Mac days. It is also arguably in ORL's best interest to work out a deal with HOU since they have the best assets for a rebuild, which is what they're going to be left doing after D12 leaves. The Lakers' benefit is obvious.
This IS why it's a bad trade for Orlando though. I mean it's the best trade all things considered as you mention, but it's still not a great situation--particularly for Orlando: they're losing their franchise piece for picks and young prospects (which is the best return you could hope for, but it's still depressing to lose such a good player).
Houston is taking a big gamble on a volatile talent with a documented history of knee problems. And Bynum is an UFA at the end of 2013 also! There's no guarantee he'll be staying any longer also.
The trade makes sense for all three teams--I agree. But that doesn't necessarily make it "good" for all of them. I think Houston is making a mistake, but it may be a gamble worth taking (I'd wait until 2013's mega FA class if I were them, but meh).
The Lakers are profiting from Orlando's unfortunate situation and using Houston to facilitate it. I don't have an issue with the deal at all for any team really--all things considered it's close enough to "fair value" but fact is this is just another example of the Lakers profiting from small-market misery.
Well, everything is relative You have to consider the circumstances when assessing transactions, and this trade is arguably the best one out there for everyone involved under the current ones.
ORL isn't going to get anything better than youth, cap space and picks, and no one wants to give up a lot without assurances that D12 will be there for more than one season. HOU isn't an attractive destination for top talent and is only going to become less so as more and more stars seek other stars to play with. Bynum comes with risks, but at least it gives them a shot at the top of talent that you need to become a contender and attract other stars to your team. Some chance is better than no chance, which is where they've been since Yao/T-Mac.
I don't see it as small-market misery so much as superstar-misery. ORL and HOU's problem isn't necessarily that they're a small market, it's that they're not attractive destinations for superstars to team up. MIA is not a large market, but they were able to get their big 3 with their existing superstar (Wade), their legendary team president (Riley), and attractive city. OKC is a small market, but are an attractive destination due to their drafted superstars. It hasn't been tested yet, but I'm sure OKC won't have problems in the future finding other stars eager to sign with them simply because they have Durant and Westbrook already there.
It doesn't really matter where DH12 ends up. Next year will most likely be a repeat for the Heat.
If they got it done with that roster, with injuries slowing them down, I can't see them not winning again with a better, healthier one. With Rashard Lewis and Ray Allen on board, this pretty much guarantees they will shoot north of 40% on their 3pt shots throughout the whole seasons (playoff included). Pay Riley has done it again. Yet he can still do more if Mike Miller decides to retire and they get room to offer Chris Kaman a good deal. Then they just need to buy out Pittman and sign the rookie Justin Hamilton.
On July 11 2012 10:10 XaI)CyRiC wrote: I don't see why this is a bad trade for anyone under the circumstances.
ORL needs to get maximum value out of D12, but has its leverage compromised by the fact that everyone knows D12 is leaving. Further, D12 refusing to play ball and making it clear that he's not going to sign extensions with just any team he's traded to compromises ORL's leverage even more.
HOU is desperate for a star they can build around and have been accumulating assets such as draft picks, young/affordable talent, and cap space. They've failed to convince any of the top FAs to sign with them despite all of those assets, and will be left with a very mediocre team if they're unable to turn those assets into some top talent. Despite the fact that they have what ORL wants, their leverage is compromised by the fact that D12 has made it clear that he has no interest in playing there and will simply leave as a FA if he's traded. Fact is that, for some reason, none of the league's top players want to play in HOU, and it's only going to get harder for them since they don't have a single legitimate star and the rest of them are looking to team up together.
The Lakers have no cap space, no young/affordable talent, and no picks, but have the benefit of being probably the best city/franchise in the NBA, having existing star power, i.e. Nash, Kobe and Pau, to team up with, and have arguably the 2nd best Center in the league in Bynum.
Under these circumstances, it is arguably in HOU's best interest to go after Bynum since he's a legitimate star they can build around who, according to rumors, has expressed interest in playing there long-term. If true, he'd be the first player of that caliber to want to play in HOU since the Yao/T-Mac days. It is also arguably in ORL's best interest to work out a deal with HOU since they have the best assets for a rebuild, which is what they're going to be left doing after D12 leaves. The Lakers' benefit is obvious.
This IS why it's a bad trade for Orlando though. I mean it's the best trade all things considered as you mention, but it's still not a great situation--particularly for Orlando: they're losing their franchise piece for picks and young prospects (which is the best return you could hope for, but it's still depressing to lose such a good player).
Houston is taking a big gamble on a volatile talent with a documented history of knee problems. And Bynum is an UFA at the end of 2013 also! There's no guarantee he'll be staying any longer also.
The trade makes sense for all three teams--I agree. But that doesn't necessarily make it "good" for all of them. I think Houston is making a mistake, but it may be a gamble worth taking (I'd wait until 2013's mega FA class if I were them, but meh).
The Lakers are profiting from Orlando's unfortunate situation and using Houston to facilitate it. I don't have an issue with the deal at all for any team really--all things considered it's close enough to "fair value" but fact is this is just another example of the Lakers profiting from small-market misery.
Well, everything is relative You have to consider the circumstances when assessing transactions, and this trade is arguably the best one out there for everyone involved under the current ones.
ORL isn't going to get anything better than youth, cap space and picks, and no one wants to give up a lot without assurances that D12 will be there for more than one season. HOU isn't an attractive destination for top talent and is only going to become less so as more and more stars seek other stars to play with. Bynum comes with risks, but at least it gives them a shot at the top of talent that you need to become a contender and attract other stars to your team. Some chance is better than no chance, which is where they've been since Yao/T-Mac.
I don't see it as small-market misery so much as superstar-misery. ORL and HOU's problem isn't necessarily that they're a small market, it's that they're not attractive destinations for superstars to team up. MIA is not a large market, but they were able to get their big 3 with their existing superstar (Wade), their legendary team president (Riley), and attractive city. OKC is a small market, but are an attractive destination due to their drafted superstars. It hasn't been tested yet, but I'm sure OKC won't have problems in the future finding other stars eager to sign with them simply because they have Durant and Westbrook already there.
Yeah I get your point. And I think I'm being too much of an apologist for Orlando (and undervaluing the Lakers' FO) too. I think if they'd be able to put a decent team around D12, like OKC has done with Durant for example, then we wouldn't be having this debate. It's the best trade everything considered.
Lewis hasn't been good for about four years now. It's a pretty iffy signing for Miami but it's not much risk so meh. I think he'll be buried on the bench Juwan Howard style, but he could be the next Mike Miller for them.
On July 11 2012 10:41 kiy0 wrote: It doesn't really matter where DH12 ends up. Next year will most likely be a repeat for the Heat.
If they got it done with that roster, with injuries slowing them down, I can't see them not winning again with a better, healthier one. With Rashard Lewis and Ray Allen on board, this pretty much guarantees they will shoot north of 40% on their 3pt shots throughout the whole seasons (playoff included). Pay Riley has done it again. Yet he can still do more if Mike Miller decides to retire and they get room to offer Chris Kaman a good deal. Then they just need to buy out Pittman and sign the rookie Justin Hamilton.
Mike Miller isn't going to retire for about 18 million reasons. Unless the Heat are divinely graced with an injury exclusion, he'll be riding that ledger. And, actually, he's still a good fit, assuming he can walk.
Rashard is a nice low-risk gamble for MIA, but he's still a gamble. Like others have said, he hasn't played well in years and hasn't shown that deadeye 3pt shooting that he was known for in SEA and ORL in a while. Great move for MIA to get him for so little, but no guarantees that he'll be able to contribute significantly.
Ray, on the other hand, will be a HUGE addition for them. He'll start out covering for a recovery Wade and then eventually provide them with the kind of shooting that will make Lebron and Wade impossible to guard. The prospect of a lineup featuring Ray, Wade, Lebron, Bosh and 3pt shooter/big man (depending on opponent) is downright scary and maybe even imbalanced
EPT
