On April 23 2012 09:33 Looms wrote: If someone from the Thunder hit Kobe like that, the reaction from the league would be at least 3x worse. Good to see that they have normalized standards in the NBA (hey, at least its at the level of the bogus NHL suspension durations, right?)
Yet when Dwayne Wade hit Kobe in the All-Star game, broke his nose and gave him a concussion I was on the "oh it was just a hard foul, no punishment deserved" team.
And if I haven't demonstrated how huge of a Kobe Bryant fan I am at this point I don't know what else I need to do.
Injury wise, the two fouls were totally equal if not favored in Kobe's direction because his nose was actually broken.
The only difference here is how bad it looks and who is the one delivering the foul.
1 is a basketball play. 1 is not a basketball play. besides fouls like dwade's happen all the time in normal games, but its just that it was an allstar game and usually no one plays tough defense there. i dont really see the comparison besides both incidents involving Laker players..
I'm just referring to the "the reaction would be 3x worse if it was Kobe" crap.
Worse injury was sustained and I wasn't calling for Wade's head.
On April 23 2012 09:06 jmbthirteen wrote: [quote] As a Pacers fan, I will just tell you this, stop trying to stick up for the guy. He will make your club crash and burn. He straight up ruined the Pacers for years. The brawl wasn't over-penalized.
And I dont give a shit what Artest says. He is clearly insane. Of course Ron is gonna say it was unintentional. Why wouldn't he? Dude has lied before you know.
My point on that is, you can actually look at the footage of that and say "Damn, that looks bad but I don't think he meant to do that."
Whether or not you want to is fine, because I won't deny it is an ugly hit to watch on a gif over and over again. But you can make that statement if you want.
You can't do that with a brawl. It's a whole other kind of thing.
For the record, it was the Nuggets-Knicks brawl that was considered overpenalized not the Pacers-Pistons.
Really? I don't think you can look at the footage and think that. How many years does Artest have left on his contract? Hopefully not many for the Lakers.
I saw the hit as it happened in the context in which it happened.
That gif doesn't show the full context it just shows the hit.
Artest was celebrating after a dunk like he always does and threw an elbow in the direction of a guy he may not have seen because he was so caught up in his moment.
I say may not, because I don't know. But that alternative explanation IS available. Which makes it very different from a brawl.
I'm sorry to say, but your bias is really showing there. I don't even know how you can try to defend what Artest did. Ofc it was intentionnal, there is no way he didnt felt Harden bump him.
Like I said. It isn't up for me to decide.
I'm sitting here with the same disbelief that there's people in here that think he went up the Harden with the full intention of hurting him because that clearly isn't what happened.
No one is arguing that he hit Harden hard, the question is why did he do it? You got a good enough look at it to know that he had full knowledge of what he was about to do beforehand and made a conscious decision to level a guy in the head? I didn't get that good enough of a look to make that call.
Here is your problem. You are trying to figure out why Ron Artest did something. The man isn't mentally stable. This is a well known fact. One does not know why Ron Artest does what he does. This is the same man who asked for 2 months off from basketball to record a rap album.
I get it. You dislike Artest and want to see him burn. You have a personal stake in this that goes beyond what actually occurred during the game.
I get it. Your a Lakers fan. You want to have one of your key players in the playoffs. You have a personal stake in this that goes beyond what actually occurred during the game.
I'm already ok with losing Artest for a few games of the playoffs because I think that's what he deserves. You're the one that won't be happy unless he's banned completely.
because i think thats the fair punishment for what he has done. not because of a personal vendetta.
On April 23 2012 09:33 Looms wrote: If someone from the Thunder hit Kobe like that, the reaction from the league would be at least 3x worse. Good to see that they have normalized standards in the NBA (hey, at least its at the level of the bogus NHL suspension durations, right?)
Yet when Dwayne Wade hit Kobe in the All-Star game, broke his nose and gave him a concussion I was on the "oh it was just a hard foul, no punishment deserved" team.
And if I haven't demonstrated how huge of a Kobe Bryant fan I am at this point I don't know what else I need to do.
Injury wise, the two fouls were totally equal if not favored in Kobe's direction because his nose was actually broken.
The only difference here is how bad it looks and who is the one delivering the foul.
1 is a basketball play. 1 is not a basketball play. besides fouls like dwade's happen all the time in normal games, but its just that it was an allstar game and usually no one plays tough defense there. i dont really see the comparison besides both incidents involving Laker players..
I'm just referring to the "the reaction would be 3x worse if it was Kobe" crap.
Worse injury was sustained and I wasn't calling for Wade's head.
umm intent is the main focus here. not injury or not, besides we dont even know if harden will have concussion symptoms for longer.
On April 23 2012 09:33 Looms wrote: If someone from the Thunder hit Kobe like that, the reaction from the league would be at least 3x worse. Good to see that they have normalized standards in the NBA (hey, at least its at the level of the bogus NHL suspension durations, right?)
Yet when Dwayne Wade hit Kobe in the All-Star game, broke his nose and gave him a concussion I was on the "oh it was just a hard foul, no punishment deserved" team.
And if I haven't demonstrated how huge of a Kobe Bryant fan I am at this point I don't know what else I need to do.
Injury wise, the two fouls were totally equal if not favored in Kobe's direction because his nose was actually broken.
The only difference here is how bad it looks and who is the one delivering the foul.
1 is a basketball play. 1 is not a basketball play. besides fouls like dwade's happen all the time in normal games, but its just that it was an allstar game and usually no one plays tough defense there. i dont really see the comparison besides both incidents involving Laker players..
I'm just referring to the "the reaction would be 3x worse if it was Kobe" crap.
Worse injury was sustained and I wasn't calling for Wade's head.
It has nothing to do with the injury dude. Its the fucking actions taken by Artest vs the actions of Wade.
On April 23 2012 08:36 RowdierBob wrote: Vindicare, you're a knowledgable, nice guy with passion for his team, but seriously your Lakers bias is in overload here. Artest is going to get a long ban for that. Maybe, maybe not the whole year, but he'll def be missing Playoff games.
That was as bad as cheap shots get.
I'm not saying he won't but long for the NBA is no more than a single playoff series.
If he's banned for the first round I'll consider that harsh but I won't argue with it.
If he's banned for the entire playoffs for that, that's an unprecedented level of punishment in this NBA, that's what I'd have a problem with, more because of unprecedence more than anything else.
No it isn't at least ten times players have been suspended for at least ten games for similar incidents including Carmelo Anthony.
This altercation was the most penalized on-court fight in the NBA since the Pacers–Pistons brawl two years before.
Carmelo Anthony was also criticized for harming his image as a star, and several writers said the league had penalized the players excessively because it wanted to keep its image free from violence.
Brawls in the NBA are a different catergory altogether. Artest has already stated publically that what he did today was unintentional. You cannot make any similar claim when it comes to a bench clearing brawl.
And even the brawl was criticized for being over-penalized. You think the NBA is really going to hand a punishment on that level to Artest for this?
Unlikely says I.
As a Pacers fan, I will just tell you this, stop trying to stick up for the guy. He will make your club crash and burn. He straight up ruined the Pacers for years. The brawl wasn't over-penalized.
And I dont give a shit what Artest says. He is clearly insane. Of course Ron is gonna say it was unintentional. Why wouldn't he? Dude has lied before you know.
My point on that is, you can actually look at the footage of that and say "Damn, that looks bad but I don't think he meant to do that."
Whether or not you want to is fine, because I won't deny it is an ugly hit to watch on a gif over and over again. But you can make that statement if you want.
You can't do that with a brawl. It's a whole other kind of thing.
For the record, it was the Nuggets-Knicks brawl that was considered overpenalized not the Pacers-Pistons.
Really? I don't think you can look at the footage and think that. How many years does Artest have left on his contract? Hopefully not many for the Lakers.
I saw the hit as it happened in the context in which it happened.
That gif doesn't show the full context it just shows the hit.
Artest was celebrating after a dunk like he always does and threw an elbow in the direction of a guy he may not have seen because he was so caught up in his moment.
I say may not, because I don't know. But that alternative explanation IS available. Which makes it very different from a brawl.
I'm sorry to say, but your bias is really showing there. I don't even know how you can try to defend what Artest did. Ofc it was intentionnal, there is no way he didnt felt Harden bump him.
Like I said. It isn't up for me to decide.
I'm sitting here with the same disbelief that there's people in here that think he went up the Harden with the full intention of hurting him because that clearly isn't what happened.
No one is arguing that he hit Harden hard, the question is why did he do it? You got a good enough look at it to know that he had full knowledge of what he was about to do beforehand and made a conscious decision to level a guy in the head? I didn't get that good enough of a look to make that call.
He did make the decision to hit Harden when he got bumped and went insane. Of that im certain, there is no way he didnt see him or swinged his elbow this far and this wide without having the intention of hitting something.
On April 23 2012 09:33 Looms wrote: If someone from the Thunder hit Kobe like that, the reaction from the league would be at least 3x worse. Good to see that they have normalized standards in the NBA (hey, at least its at the level of the bogus NHL suspension durations, right?)
Yet when Dwayne Wade hit Kobe in the All-Star game, broke his nose and gave him a concussion I was on the "oh it was just a hard foul, no punishment deserved" team.
And if I haven't demonstrated how huge of a Kobe Bryant fan I am at this point I don't know what else I need to do.
Injury wise, the two fouls were totally equal if not favored in Kobe's direction because his nose was actually broken.
The only difference here is how bad it looks and who is the one delivering the foul.
ROFL
They're COMPLETELY different. Seriously, how do you not understand this? Artest fucking ELBOWED THE GUY TO THE HEAD when he wasn't even trying to make a fucking play for something.
Like HOW DO YOU THINK THIS CASE IS THE SAME AS ANYTHING BEFORE?
if Artest felt that Harden was getting in his way while he ran up the court (by the way he was too busy celebrating his mediocre dunk to sprint back on defense), he could have just pushed Harden out of the way instead of throwing an elbow. the elbow is what people are making a big deal about here.
On April 23 2012 09:33 Looms wrote: If someone from the Thunder hit Kobe like that, the reaction from the league would be at least 3x worse. Good to see that they have normalized standards in the NBA (hey, at least its at the level of the bogus NHL suspension durations, right?)
Yet when Dwayne Wade hit Kobe in the All-Star game, broke his nose and gave him a concussion I was on the "oh it was just a hard foul, no punishment deserved" team.
And if I haven't demonstrated how huge of a Kobe Bryant fan I am at this point I don't know what else I need to do.
Injury wise, the two fouls were totally equal if not favored in Kobe's direction because his nose was actually broken.
The only difference here is how bad it looks and who is the one delivering the foul.
1 is a basketball play. 1 is not a basketball play. besides fouls like dwade's happen all the time in normal games, but its just that it was an allstar game and usually no one plays tough defense there. i dont really see the comparison besides both incidents involving Laker players..
I'm just referring to the "the reaction would be 3x worse if it was Kobe" crap.
Worse injury was sustained and I wasn't calling for Wade's head.
It has nothing to do with the injury dude. Its the fucking actions taken by Artest vs the actions of Wade.
You can easily make the argument that the actions were the same.
Unintentional hard blow is an unintentional hard blow.
The difference here is that you're convinced Wade's was unintentional and Artest's wasn't. So in your mind they are two completely different cases while in mine they are not.
On April 23 2012 09:33 Looms wrote: If someone from the Thunder hit Kobe like that, the reaction from the league would be at least 3x worse. Good to see that they have normalized standards in the NBA (hey, at least its at the level of the bogus NHL suspension durations, right?)
Yet when Dwayne Wade hit Kobe in the All-Star game, broke his nose and gave him a concussion I was on the "oh it was just a hard foul, no punishment deserved" team.
And if I haven't demonstrated how huge of a Kobe Bryant fan I am at this point I don't know what else I need to do.
Injury wise, the two fouls were totally equal if not favored in Kobe's direction because his nose was actually broken.
The only difference here is how bad it looks and who is the one delivering the foul.
1 is a basketball play. 1 is not a basketball play. besides fouls like dwade's happen all the time in normal games, but its just that it was an allstar game and usually no one plays tough defense there. i dont really see the comparison besides both incidents involving Laker players..
I'm just referring to the "the reaction would be 3x worse if it was Kobe" crap.
Worse injury was sustained and I wasn't calling for Wade's head.
It has nothing to do with the injury dude. Its the fucking actions taken by Artest vs the actions of Wade.
You can easily make the argument that the actions were the same.
Unintentional hard blow is an unintentional hard blow.
The difference here is that you're convinced Wade's was unintentional and Artest's wasn't. So in your mind they are two completely different cases while in mine they are not.
orly? easily make the argument? Wade was trying to stop Kobe from scoring. Kobe had the ball driving along the baseline and Wade fouled him hard to make sure he didnt get a shot up. Artest swung his elbow at someone right next to him, after scoring the basket, while going back on defense.
On April 23 2012 09:33 Looms wrote: If someone from the Thunder hit Kobe like that, the reaction from the league would be at least 3x worse. Good to see that they have normalized standards in the NBA (hey, at least its at the level of the bogus NHL suspension durations, right?)
Yet when Dwayne Wade hit Kobe in the All-Star game, broke his nose and gave him a concussion I was on the "oh it was just a hard foul, no punishment deserved" team.
And if I haven't demonstrated how huge of a Kobe Bryant fan I am at this point I don't know what else I need to do.
Injury wise, the two fouls were totally equal if not favored in Kobe's direction because his nose was actually broken.
The only difference here is how bad it looks and who is the one delivering the foul.
1 is a basketball play. 1 is not a basketball play. besides fouls like dwade's happen all the time in normal games, but its just that it was an allstar game and usually no one plays tough defense there. i dont really see the comparison besides both incidents involving Laker players..
I'm just referring to the "the reaction would be 3x worse if it was Kobe" crap.
Worse injury was sustained and I wasn't calling for Wade's head.
It has nothing to do with the injury dude. Its the fucking actions taken by Artest vs the actions of Wade.
You can easily make the argument that the actions were the same.
Unintentional hard blow is an unintentional hard blow.
The difference here is that you're convinced Wade's was unintentional and Artest's wasn't. So in your mind they are two completely different cases while in mine they are not.
I don't even understand how you can't see that these were COMPLETELY different. Wade was making an action to prevent a basket, Artest hit someone when there was no play going on. These ARE completely different cases.
On April 23 2012 09:33 Looms wrote: If someone from the Thunder hit Kobe like that, the reaction from the league would be at least 3x worse. Good to see that they have normalized standards in the NBA (hey, at least its at the level of the bogus NHL suspension durations, right?)
Yet when Dwayne Wade hit Kobe in the All-Star game, broke his nose and gave him a concussion I was on the "oh it was just a hard foul, no punishment deserved" team.
And if I haven't demonstrated how huge of a Kobe Bryant fan I am at this point I don't know what else I need to do.
Injury wise, the two fouls were totally equal if not favored in Kobe's direction because his nose was actually broken.
The only difference here is how bad it looks and who is the one delivering the foul.
1 is a basketball play. 1 is not a basketball play. besides fouls like dwade's happen all the time in normal games, but its just that it was an allstar game and usually no one plays tough defense there. i dont really see the comparison besides both incidents involving Laker players..
I'm just referring to the "the reaction would be 3x worse if it was Kobe" crap.
Worse injury was sustained and I wasn't calling for Wade's head.
It has nothing to do with the injury dude. Its the fucking actions taken by Artest vs the actions of Wade.
You can easily make the argument that the actions were the same.
Unintentional hard blow is an unintentional hard blow.
The difference here is that you're convinced Wade's was unintentional and Artest's wasn't. So in your mind they are two completely different cases while in mine they are not.
I don't even understand how you can't see that these were COMPLETELY different. Wade was making an action to prevent a basket, Artest hit someone when there was no play going on. These ARE completely different cases.
I think I will just refer to one of my earlier posts. Lakers fans are not real basketball fans. They care about the team because it is their biggest pro team in the city. When it comes to understanding basketball, they are lightyears behind.
On April 23 2012 09:51 Looms wrote: if Artest felt that Harden was getting in his way while he ran up the court (by the way he was too busy celebrating his mediocre dunk to sprint back on defense), he could have just pushed Harden out of the way instead of throwing an elbow. the elbow is what people are making a big deal about here.
I totally agree that if all of this was really a result of Artest wanting Harden out of his way a push would have been a better idea.
Which to me just lends itself to the argument that he honestly didn't know Harden was there. Otherwise why resort to the elbow as a first resort? that doesn't make any sense to me.
Yea to people who think Artest is a violent lunatic it does, but that's their own bias guiding their perception of the situation.
On April 23 2012 09:33 Looms wrote: If someone from the Thunder hit Kobe like that, the reaction from the league would be at least 3x worse. Good to see that they have normalized standards in the NBA (hey, at least its at the level of the bogus NHL suspension durations, right?)
Yet when Dwayne Wade hit Kobe in the All-Star game, broke his nose and gave him a concussion I was on the "oh it was just a hard foul, no punishment deserved" team.
And if I haven't demonstrated how huge of a Kobe Bryant fan I am at this point I don't know what else I need to do.
Injury wise, the two fouls were totally equal if not favored in Kobe's direction because his nose was actually broken.
The only difference here is how bad it looks and who is the one delivering the foul.
ROFL
They're COMPLETELY different. Seriously, how do you not understand this? Artest fucking ELBOWED THE GUY TO THE HEAD when he wasn't even trying to make a fucking play for something.
Like HOW DO YOU THINK THIS CASE IS THE SAME AS ANYTHING BEFORE?
Not that I dont think Artest's red misting isnt worse. But I hope your not saying its apparantly better to do it as long as you disguise it as a play, because thats not really that hard to do. "Oh its Wade, must be an accident". Mmmzz I dont know about that. I'd like to think it was, but any decision on wether he did it on purpose or not (in an all star game) is projecting bias of rep.
So yes motives are questionable in any case. Artest is just dumb as shit, or well crazy.
On April 23 2012 09:21 Vindicare605 wrote: Like I said. If you're JUST looking at the gif it looks really intentional but if you add in the rest of the context it isn't quite as clear.
On April 23 2012 09:27 chaoser wrote:
Here's the video. He does a chest pound with his right arm and then his elbow to Harden's head. That's the whole motion. The gif covers the whole thing
On April 23 2012 09:33 Vindicare605 wrote: I'm sitting here with the same disbelief that there's people in here that think he went up the Harden with the full intention of hurting him because that clearly isn't what happened.
On April 23 2012 09:33 Looms wrote: If someone from the Thunder hit Kobe like that, the reaction from the league would be at least 3x worse. Good to see that they have normalized standards in the NBA (hey, at least its at the level of the bogus NHL suspension durations, right?)
Yet when Dwayne Wade hit Kobe in the All-Star game, broke his nose and gave him a concussion I was on the "oh it was just a hard foul, no punishment deserved" team.
And if I haven't demonstrated how huge of a Kobe Bryant fan I am at this point I don't know what else I need to do.
Injury wise, the two fouls were totally equal if not favored in Kobe's direction because his nose was actually broken.
The only difference here is how bad it looks and who is the one delivering the foul.
1 is a basketball play. 1 is not a basketball play. besides fouls like dwade's happen all the time in normal games, but its just that it was an allstar game and usually no one plays tough defense there. i dont really see the comparison besides both incidents involving Laker players..
I'm just referring to the "the reaction would be 3x worse if it was Kobe" crap.
Worse injury was sustained and I wasn't calling for Wade's head.
It has nothing to do with the injury dude. Its the fucking actions taken by Artest vs the actions of Wade.
You can easily make the argument that the actions were the same.
Unintentional hard blow is an unintentional hard blow.
The difference here is that you're convinced Wade's was unintentional and Artest's wasn't. So in your mind they are two completely different cases while in mine they are not.
dude, you are just as crazy as Artest. You can easily make that argument that they are the same, but no one in their right mind would buy it.
On April 23 2012 09:38 jmbthirteen wrote: Here is your problem. You are trying to figure out why Ron Artest did something. The man isn't mentally stable. This is a well known fact. One does not know why Ron Artest does what he does. This is the same man who asked for 2 months off from basketball to record a rap album.
I get it. You dislike Artest and want to see him burn. You have a personal stake in this that goes beyond what actually occurred during the game.
It doesn't matter who the player is to me. I have a personal dislike to anything that is scum. That kind of act is inexcusable. From the comments here, many feel the same way. It's not just him being Artest or playing for the Lakers. However, history suggests crazy Laker fans don't see it that way.
On April 23 2012 09:33 Looms wrote: If someone from the Thunder hit Kobe like that, the reaction from the league would be at least 3x worse. Good to see that they have normalized standards in the NBA (hey, at least its at the level of the bogus NHL suspension durations, right?)
Yet when Dwayne Wade hit Kobe in the All-Star game, broke his nose and gave him a concussion I was on the "oh it was just a hard foul, no punishment deserved" team.
And if I haven't demonstrated how huge of a Kobe Bryant fan I am at this point I don't know what else I need to do.
Injury wise, the two fouls were totally equal if not favored in Kobe's direction because his nose was actually broken.
The only difference here is how bad it looks and who is the one delivering the foul.
ROFL
They're COMPLETELY different. Seriously, how do you not understand this? Artest fucking ELBOWED THE GUY TO THE HEAD when he wasn't even trying to make a fucking play for something.
Like HOW DO YOU THINK THIS CASE IS THE SAME AS ANYTHING BEFORE?
Not that I dont think Artest's red misting isnt worse. But I hope your not saying its apparantly better to do it as long as you disguise it as a play, because thats not really that hard to do. So yes motives are questionable in any case. Artest is just dumb as shit, or well crazy.
Umm no, I was making the distinction between actually playing a physical sport and assault. This was assault.
On April 23 2012 09:51 Looms wrote: if Artest felt that Harden was getting in his way while he ran up the court (by the way he was too busy celebrating his mediocre dunk to sprint back on defense), he could have just pushed Harden out of the way instead of throwing an elbow. the elbow is what people are making a big deal about here.
I totally agree that if all of this was really a result of Artest wanting Harden out of his way a push would have been a better idea.
Which to me just lends itself to the argument that he honestly didn't know Harden was there. Otherwise why resort to the elbow as a first resort? that doesn't make any sense to me.
Yea to people who think Artest is a violent lunatic it does, but that's their own bias guiding their perception of the situation.
... Harden makes contact with Artest. Artest clearly knows that he is there. Once again you are trying to make sense of Ron Artest. You can't do that. Why the hell did he run into the stands in Detroit?
People think Artest is a violent lunatic because he is and he has proven that time and time again.
On April 23 2012 09:33 Looms wrote: If someone from the Thunder hit Kobe like that, the reaction from the league would be at least 3x worse. Good to see that they have normalized standards in the NBA (hey, at least its at the level of the bogus NHL suspension durations, right?)
Yet when Dwayne Wade hit Kobe in the All-Star game, broke his nose and gave him a concussion I was on the "oh it was just a hard foul, no punishment deserved" team.
And if I haven't demonstrated how huge of a Kobe Bryant fan I am at this point I don't know what else I need to do.
Injury wise, the two fouls were totally equal if not favored in Kobe's direction because his nose was actually broken.
The only difference here is how bad it looks and who is the one delivering the foul.
ROFL
They're COMPLETELY different. Seriously, how do you not understand this? Artest fucking ELBOWED THE GUY TO THE HEAD when he wasn't even trying to make a fucking play for something.
Like HOW DO YOU THINK THIS CASE IS THE SAME AS ANYTHING BEFORE?
Not that I dont think Artest's red misting isnt worse. But I hope your not saying its apparantly better to do it as long as you disguise it as a play, because thats not really that hard to do. So yes motives are questionable in any case. Artest is just dumb as shit, or well crazy.
Umm no, I was making the distinction between actually playing a physical sport and assault. This was assault.
Please.
You have to admit if Artest wanted to assault Harden he could have done a lot more than an elbow to the head when he wasn't even facing him.
The difference in this argument between you and me is that you are whole heartedly convinced that Artest came down from that dunk with the full intention of beating the shit out of Harden for seemingly no reason.
While i'm of the opinion that while he did deliver an ugly hit to Harden that ITS NOT CLEAR what the motivation was behind it.
I'm sitting here waiting for evidence or judgement from the guys with actual authority and you're here calling for an arrest. One of us is trying to be realistic about this the other just wants to see retribution.
EPT
