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Mia is still the 2nd best team in the East, who cares if they lose a few games when Wade shoots 1/13. If they can ever get really good on defense they can be scary. The big challenge will be BOS, who have a lot more big bodies to soak up fouls and rough them up come the playoffs.
On November 23 2010 13:18 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 13:07 andrewlt wrote:On November 22 2010 13:15 Jibba wrote:
That was a pretty poor defense of PER, and does nothing to show how it's more valuable than a regular box score (which I'd argue it's worse than, since at least they're less convoluted and we're shooting for parsimony here.)
Also, yes, you take the star guard over the big man with potential. Yes, yes, yes. Suitable big men can be built over time and usually get traded anyways, since they don't meet their potential with their first team. The trade value of a star guard and a star big men are relatively close, even though it's much, much easier to cultivate and predict the guard. That's a mistake on GM's parts, but it's still usually the case. Has any big man with potential actually ever panned out? I'm not very familiar with the college game but it seems like every successful star big man I can think of was already a star in college. I don't recall a raw one with "potential" ever turn into a star. Shaq, Dwight are 2 that comes to mind and I would say they both turned out pretty well, both were fairly raw. Oden was a star in college, number 1 recruit and only reason why OSU went to the NCAA finals and actually had a legitimate shot at winning. Yao was pretty "raw" (aka unaccustomed to the NBA) but he panned out. Kwame Brown...not so much. It's a matter of how well both their game and their capabilities transfer onto the NBA stage. That's the problem with getting big men with potential or talent, it's like Hakeem, David, and Patrick could have all gone the way of Ralph Sampson for some reason or another. Humor me and ignore the fact that Sampson was injury-ridden. However, is it worth the gamble? Definitely. Hell, Daniel Orton got taken in the first round last year by the Magic and he is like mediocre in his best games in college, but he apparently had enough upside for the Magic to give him guaranteed money.
KG hasn't even gone to college, he was all potential you could argue.
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On November 23 2010 15:18 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 15:08 shmay wrote:
Taken from what I've seen of Cleveland...
Wade doesn't seem to want to give up the alpha dog throne. Lebron is stuck halfway between Cleveland mode and complimentary player. And Bosh thinks he's an equal member of the big 3. Also, I think we overestimated Bosh. He inflated his image by putting up big numbers in Toronto, but did anyone actually watch him play? He doesn't look all that good. He could be a decent role player, but he keeps looking for his shot like he's a star.
Still this team should be a threat by playoff time if they all get healthy. They still have the Pat Riley as coach card to play. Bosh is shooting and playing like he shot in toronto. I don't know why so many people think he's a kind of superstar foward like dwight or amare. He has his own playstyle that he excels in but it definitely isn't what most of you think it is. He wasn't putting up big rb numbers because he had to deal with sharing space with haslem/anthony, who are trying to look like their contributing to this allstar team. Now with them gone, bosh is getting his doubledoubles again. The only problem I see with this team is wade. On his bad nights - he is TERRIBLE, but he still won't stop shooting or driving. Just give up the ball already, holy shit.
Anthony isn't even a good rebounder. He tries to go for the shot block all the time and misses on defensive rebounds. There's plenty of rebounds for everybody.
While I'm happy that Miami is struggling, I'm surprised by how bad Bosh is at defense. He seemed to have had no problems playing good, hard defense during the last Olympics. Now, he's being a matador on defense. The effort just isn't there.
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ccclllliiipppppppeeerrrrssss
clippers got ballers yo, crazy games!
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On November 23 2010 12:42 Servolisk wrote:
The Heat look worse than they did last year.
Of course, Wade was off physically and that will be a major disruption. However, the way things were going, even if he was not off I still don't think Miami would have won that game.
It is obvious these guys are not going to develop chemistry anytime soon. The big 3 do not compliment each other, surprisingly, and they have no depth now with Haslem and Miller injured. Even when they were mostly healthy they never like a contender.
With Haslem out I can see the Heat with a .500 record (I'm sure they are going to be 8-7 after they play Orlando tomorrow in this state).
It is pretty disappointing from a basketball standpoint. But I do enjoy ESPN falling flat on their face. God they were unforgivably obnoxious with the way they shoved the Heat down our throats, just completely pathetic...
they need phil jackson coaching them lolz
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On November 24 2010 01:22 citi.zen wrote:Mia is still the 2nd best team in the East, who cares if they lose a few games when Wade shoots 1/13. If they can ever get really good on defense they can be scary. The big challenge will be BOS, who have a lot more big bodies to soak up fouls and rough them up come the playoffs. Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 13:18 Judicator wrote:On November 23 2010 13:07 andrewlt wrote:On November 22 2010 13:15 Jibba wrote:
That was a pretty poor defense of PER, and does nothing to show how it's more valuable than a regular box score (which I'd argue it's worse than, since at least they're less convoluted and we're shooting for parsimony here.)
Also, yes, you take the star guard over the big man with potential. Yes, yes, yes. Suitable big men can be built over time and usually get traded anyways, since they don't meet their potential with their first team. The trade value of a star guard and a star big men are relatively close, even though it's much, much easier to cultivate and predict the guard. That's a mistake on GM's parts, but it's still usually the case. Has any big man with potential actually ever panned out? I'm not very familiar with the college game but it seems like every successful star big man I can think of was already a star in college. I don't recall a raw one with "potential" ever turn into a star. Shaq, Dwight are 2 that comes to mind and I would say they both turned out pretty well, both were fairly raw. Oden was a star in college, number 1 recruit and only reason why OSU went to the NCAA finals and actually had a legitimate shot at winning. Yao was pretty "raw" (aka unaccustomed to the NBA) but he panned out. Kwame Brown...not so much. It's a matter of how well both their game and their capabilities transfer onto the NBA stage. That's the problem with getting big men with potential or talent, it's like Hakeem, David, and Patrick could have all gone the way of Ralph Sampson for some reason or another. Humor me and ignore the fact that Sampson was injury-ridden. However, is it worth the gamble? Definitely. Hell, Daniel Orton got taken in the first round last year by the Magic and he is like mediocre in his best games in college, but he apparently had enough upside for the Magic to give him guaranteed money. KG hasn't even gone to college, he was all potential you could argue.
Boston, Orlando, Chicago... I would argue that Miami is 4th best in the East, at best. Maybe even 5th if you think Atlanta is gonna pull everything together (I think they will)
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Well, judging from what we've seen this season, taking schedule strength into consideration, the east top 6 seems to be
1. Boston
2. Orlando
3. Chicago
4. Miami
5. Atlanta
6. Indiana
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On November 24 2010 03:52 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 12:42 Servolisk wrote:
The Heat look worse than they did last year.
Of course, Wade was off physically and that will be a major disruption. However, the way things were going, even if he was not off I still don't think Miami would have won that game.
It is obvious these guys are not going to develop chemistry anytime soon. The big 3 do not compliment each other, surprisingly, and they have no depth now with Haslem and Miller injured. Even when they were mostly healthy they never like a contender.
With Haslem out I can see the Heat with a .500 record (I'm sure they are going to be 8-7 after they play Orlando tomorrow in this state).
It is pretty disappointing from a basketball standpoint. But I do enjoy ESPN falling flat on their face. God they were unforgivably obnoxious with the way they shoved the Heat down our throats, just completely pathetic... they need phil jackson coaching them lolz
or a certain HoF GM/ex-coach who's in the miami heat organization 
I think there's still a 50% chance that he will take over as the coach again ala the heat title run.
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United States22883 Posts
On November 23 2010 13:18 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 13:07 andrewlt wrote:On November 22 2010 13:15 Jibba wrote:
That was a pretty poor defense of PER, and does nothing to show how it's more valuable than a regular box score (which I'd argue it's worse than, since at least they're less convoluted and we're shooting for parsimony here.)
Also, yes, you take the star guard over the big man with potential. Yes, yes, yes. Suitable big men can be built over time and usually get traded anyways, since they don't meet their potential with their first team. The trade value of a star guard and a star big men are relatively close, even though it's much, much easier to cultivate and predict the guard. That's a mistake on GM's parts, but it's still usually the case. Has any big man with potential actually ever panned out? I'm not very familiar with the college game but it seems like every successful star big man I can think of was already a star in college. I don't recall a raw one with "potential" ever turn into a star. Shaq, Dwight are 2 that comes to mind and I would say they both turned out pretty well, both were fairly raw. Shaq put up 28/15 as a sophomore. LOL. I mean, he didn't have the baby hook yet, but he's had an NBA body since he was like 8 and he had a nose for the ball. Dwight was definitely a reach though.
However, is it worth the gamble? Definitely. Hell, Daniel Orton got taken in the first round last year by the Magic and he is like mediocre in his best games in college, but he apparently had enough upside for the Magic to give him guaranteed money.
Orlando is one of the worst drafting franchises in the history of the NBA. Fine, every 15 years they get a star big man, to go along with 29 flops. Any kind of talent evaluation they do should be ignored, and any success treated as an aberration.
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United States22883 Posts
On November 23 2010 15:18 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 15:08 shmay wrote:
Taken from what I've seen of Cleveland...
Wade doesn't seem to want to give up the alpha dog throne. Lebron is stuck halfway between Cleveland mode and complimentary player. And Bosh thinks he's an equal member of the big 3. Also, I think we overestimated Bosh. He inflated his image by putting up big numbers in Toronto, but did anyone actually watch him play? He doesn't look all that good. He could be a decent role player, but he keeps looking for his shot like he's a star.
Still this team should be a threat by playoff time if they all get healthy. They still have the Pat Riley as coach card to play. Bosh is shooting and playing like he shot in toronto. I don't know why so many people think he's a kind of superstar foward like dwight or amare. He has his own playstyle that he excels in but it definitely isn't what most of you think it is. He wasn't putting up big rb numbers because he had to deal with sharing space with haslem/anthony, who are trying to look like their contributing to this allstar team. Now with them gone, bosh is getting his doubledoubles again. The only problem I see with this team is wade. On his bad nights - he is TERRIBLE, but he still won't stop shooting or driving. Just give up the ball already, holy shit.
I think this is dead right. The Bosh video was funny, but I don't think his play has been any different than should be expected. There's just not enough room for him to score as much as he did in Toronto, but he's still a damn efficient option and causes some matchup problems.
Lebron + that second unit has been fantastic so far. It's really Wade that's having issues. He's doing what he did before which, when his shots are falling, are enough to make Miami a 50 win team, but it doesn't work with the other two players he has. He could be making his life/shots a lot easier than he has.
Regardless of record, I'd still take Miami in a playoff series over the Bulls/Magic. Let's not forget they've got 82 games of preseason to improve, and we can all agree they have more room to improve than any other team in the league.
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He's doing the bad Kobe thing, at least from what I saw in the Indiana game. He has options but for whatever reason, he opts for the selfish over people shots instead of the ball movement.
Bosh is having trouble fitting in obviously. Still though, the negativity surrounding him isn't helping matters.
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On November 24 2010 04:10 Holcan wrote:
Well, judging from what we've seen this season, taking schedule strength into consideration, the east top 6 seems to be
1. Boston
2. Orlando
3. Chicago
4. Miami
5. Atlanta
6. Indiana
See! I told you guys - Indiana is looking OK right now. Roy Hibbert has been way better than anyone expected.
Now Darren Collison just needs to get healthy and finish adjusting to the Offense.
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I don't actually like orlando in the playoffs at all this year, certainly not past the first round. Howard is awesome but they don't have a good defensive team around him, nor do they have a game closer - carter or lewis don't count.
Chicago are more dangerous... but atlanta for some reason always falls short of their potential.
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On November 24 2010 08:10 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 04:10 Holcan wrote:
Well, judging from what we've seen this season, taking schedule strength into consideration, the east top 6 seems to be
1. Boston
2. Orlando
3. Chicago
4. Miami
5. Atlanta
6. Indiana See! I told you guys - Indiana is looking OK right now. Roy Hibbert has been way better than anyone expected. Now Darren Collison just needs to get healthy and finish adjusting to the Offense.
Ya, theyve been playing great ball, being a sleeper team lets them jump on opportunity, much like OKC last year, where teams come in without preparation and get Duranted on, or on this team Grangered. If they can keep winning, and beating +.500 teams than they could become a scary team.
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Atlanta are fucking terrible.
I can't think of a more overrated, pea-hearted, team in the league.
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Joe Johnson is having a HORRIBLE shooting slump.
$120 million down the drain.
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I usually don't like Wojnarowski's slanted stories, but this interview with Kobe is pretty cool.
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D. Rose is so sick. He consistently makes absolutely ridiculous drives/shots. Needs to pass more though. Noah gets his hand on everything and is bugging the crap out of Gasol. Bulls look good. Imagine if Lebron had joined them.
Also, Steve Blake is really really good. He and Brown have developed a bit of a tandem, and with them coming off the bench, the Lakers are virtually unstoppable.
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On November 24 2010 12:12 RowdierBob wrote:
Atlanta are fucking terrible.
I can't think of a more overrated, pea-hearted, team in the league.
I live in Atlanta, and any time someone tries to say some shit about not being a hawks fan or liking the hawks I just say playoffs 2009. Works pretty well. Even the most rabid hawks fans that are friends of mine just shake their head. I love it.
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Why are there no real thanksgiving games this year ? is there a particular reason... isn't the Thanksgiving thing one of the biggest regular season days in the league ? oo;
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EPT
