EPT@city: Where are you looking at this data?
NBA 2010-2011 Season - Page 106
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
@city: Where are you looking at this data? | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On March 03 2011 08:12 BlueRoyaL wrote: and i noticed, not just in TL but in other places also, when people start discussing PGs, most of the time it always revolves around dwill, cp3, and sometimes rose. what about someone like nash? how do you guys compare nash with pgs of dwill/cp3? are they on the same level, and why or why not? just curious  I'm not quite sure how history will remember Steve Nash. He is definitely one of the most unique players of the era. Extremely excellent shooter (might even be the best of our time?) and just tremendous vision. The problem with Steve Nash though is kind of the same as Rajon Rondo - they both suffer from one crippling flaw that prevents them from being the best. Just as Rondo can not shoot, Nash was chronically inept at playing defense. I mean, there is a concurrent conversation going on about Chris Bosh's defense but Bosh can out defend Nash in his sleep (I'm aware of the positional difference.) Nash just got abused so much, it was kind of hard to watch. So my opinion? Offensive savant who plays at a hyper quick pace and plays in a defense that hid his deep defensive flaws. | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
On March 03 2011 08:18 Ace wrote: @blueroyal: Nash offensively is better than all of them with the exception of maybe CP3. Nash is one of the few players ever that can literally turn players you'd never expect to start into worth while stars. Add in his ridiculous shooting stroke and there you go. Of course his defense is what kills it for him in comparisons. @city: Where are you looking at this data? 82games The data there also shows how important LeBron is to this Miami team defensively. It's astounding how much worse they are without him. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On March 03 2011 08:21 city42 wrote: 82games The data there also shows how important LeBron is to this Miami team defensively. It's astounding how much worse they are without him. Yes! This is exactly why I don't understand the D-Rose love over Lebron. Lebron IS D-Rose, just better in almost every single way. It is literally unfair how good Lebron James is at basketball - I mean, the guy might be better at basketball than anyone is at anything. I mean the traditional stats are gaudy but the advanced metrics are straight horrifying! He is having a down year compared to the last two years but he is outrageously good. | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
They are better with him on the court defensively: Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. On: 102.5 Off: 104.6 Net: -2.1 remember 2.1 is a big number ^_^ The FG% might be due to when he's off the court the next lineup is playing against non-starters. Also could be the Joel Anthony/Lebron line ups killing people defensively. | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
As far as MVP, I think it should go to either LBJ or Howard. LBJ is the leading scorer on his stacked team, while almost getting as many rebounds as Bosh (lol). Plus he is averaging 7 assists on one of the bottom 5 APG teams in the league. The guy is a beast all around and I am not even a fan of him (and I didn't mention his steals). I can see Howard getting MVP but only if they improve their record to that of BOS or MIA by the end of the season. Regular season records play such a big role in the MVP award, and if ORL is able to do that, I think he would deserve it for having the least help on his team than the other top teams. | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
On March 03 2011 08:29 Ace wrote: o.0 They are better with him on the court defensively: Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. On: 102.5 Off: 104.6 Net: -2.1 remember 2.1 is a big number ^_^ The FG% might be due to when he's off the court the next lineup is playing against non-starters. Also could be the Joel Anthony/Lebron line ups killing people defensively. Maybe teams just slow it down more when he's on the court, and feed the ball inside to their big guys? That would result in lower Pts/100 but higher FG%. Be careful of that pts per 100 poss. stat...by the same metric, Wade has been catastrophically bad this season. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On March 03 2011 08:52 city42 wrote: Maybe teams just slow it down more when he's on the court, and feed the ball inside to their big guys? That would result in lower Pts/100 but higher FG%. Be careful of that pts per 100 poss. stat...by the same metric, Wade has been catastrophically bad this season. Does 82games provide the size of the sample? I mean 2 points is a lot from a real standpoint but it really depends on sample size because with only one season in, quality of opponent and other random noise does tend to make the information less clear. At this point, I still trust my eyes more than plus/minus style stats. | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
On March 03 2011 08:56 slyboogie wrote: Does 82games provide the size of the sample? I mean 2 points is a lot from a real standpoint but it really depends on sample size because with only one season in, quality of opponent and other random noise does tend to make the information less clear. At this point, I still trust my eyes more than plus/minus style stats. Those eyes you trust might also have spotted this post by me on the last page: It's too early to say definitively since he's only played about 60 games in a Heat uniform. Since we have quite a few Toronto seasons to look at, it's easier to make observations. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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city42
1656 Posts
On March 03 2011 09:00 slyboogie wrote: I guess I should apologize but you didn't totally answer my question. Does 82 games provide the minutes in the sample? That's all I ask and, to be totally honest, it wasn't a shot at anyone. I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. The stats on 82games are for each individual season. For example, Chris Bosh has separate stat pages for his 08-09 campaign, his 09-10 campaign, and so on. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13007 Posts
On March 03 2011 08:18 Ace wrote: @blueroyal: Nash offensively is better than all of them with the exception of maybe CP3. Nash is one of the few players ever that can literally turn players you'd never expect to start into worth while stars. Add in his ridiculous shooting stroke and there you go. Of course his defense is what kills it for him in comparisons. @city: Where are you looking at this data? Case in point: Hakim Warrick and Martin Gortat. | ||
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thehorsebecomesking
189 Posts
On March 03 2011 08:18 slyboogie wrote: I'm not quite sure how history will remember Steve Nash. He is definitely one of the most unique players of the era. Extremely excellent shooter (might even be the best of our time?) and just tremendous vision. The problem with Steve Nash though is kind of the same as Rajon Rondo - they both suffer from one crippling flaw that prevents them from being the best. Just as Rondo can not shoot, Nash was chronically inept at playing defense. I mean, there is a concurrent conversation going on about Chris Bosh's defense but Bosh can out defend Nash in his sleep (I'm aware of the positional difference.) Nash just got abused so much, it was kind of hard to watch. So my opinion? Offensive savant who plays at a hyper quick pace and plays in a defense that hid his deep defensive flaws. Rondo will start hitting shots, his problem is psychological. If this is his only flaw in your eyes he will be god in 2-3 years. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
What do you guys think about the Hawks? I think its incredible how this team could be so much less than the sum of its parts. I mean Al Horford+Josh Smith+Joe Johnson+Marvin Williams+Jamal Crawford SHOULD be better than 36-24 (losing to the Bulls right now) right? I mean, that's three legit players and two good role players...I understand that they are really lacking at the point but man...it just is really disappointing to me. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Also, the effort level from the Hawks isn't always consistent. When they get down, it's hard for them to get back, cause I feel like they just don't have the winners mentality. It's not there for the group. Athleticism, talent, it's all there. They can run with the best of em, hang with the bigs, but in the clutch time, I just haven't seen them deliver. There's something missing, but it's really hard to tell with the Hawks, because they'll be great one night, but the next night they'll be god awful. Consistency? Effort? Who knows? | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
Rondo will start hitting shots, his problem is psychological. If this is his only flaw in your eyes he will be god in 2-3 years. I think most people will agree that is Rondo's "only" flaw. He is fast, long, has gigantic hands, is completely fearless, a real team player and, I believe that Bethlehem Shoals once said that he moved like a cat on ice skates. Rondo can not shoot. I hope it's psychological for his sake but he's been in the league now for a few years. Too much iso basketball from the Hawks. Rarely do I see many set plays and a nice halfcourt offense. A lot of their offense relies on just 1 on 1 basketball in the halfcourt along with pushing the tempo for some easy fastbreak points with their athleticism in the open court. But they're a trainwreck when it comes to meshing together. Hopefully it'll get better with the addition of Hinrich, but we'll see. I thought that that was their problem before but their new coach was going to install a "motion" offense. I guess it could just be that Joe Johnson is a second-class super star and Josh Smith has a 30 basketball IQ (Up from 0!) But from the few chances I've gotten to see them, I agree with you on the iso stuff. | ||
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thehorsebecomesking
189 Posts
ANyone watchings Cs vs Suns? What did they do to Nash, he was cussing for a good minute lol. | ||
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