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On November 09 2016 12:27 Duka08 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 08:48 bo1b wrote:
It's silly that I can't say I'm a doctor just because I didn't go to university for 6 years + placement. I mean Yeh, I did 1% of the work and studied how cell division works.
I think it's just horrible that the world caters more to people who actually put the work in when 99 % of us don't. Be more noon friendly reality.
By the way, all the people who did put the effort in should be brought down to my level. If you're making an analogy about why the opinion of "casual" players is irrelevant then I seriously disagree. That guy made his point EXTREMELY poorly and arrogantly. But someone that's played hundreds of hours of D2, or any game for that matter, without pushing every single feature to the limit, has just as valid a viewpoint on a game and the good and bad as they see it based on their experience. I fully sympathize with more hardcore players that want a lot of value and depth and everything out of their choice of gaming experience, and I think developers ought to take that subset of players seriously because those tend to give a game a lot of longevity. With most games I play I'd put myself in this group as well. But to tell a huge range of people they're wrong and don't know what's good for the state/future of a franchise just because they're not the bleeding edge is just dense. If someone played a ton of D2 solo and with friends when they were young and love the game, even though they didn't trade extensively or join high level groups on Bnet etc etc, you still have to deal with their perspective, even if it's not the same experience you had. For someone to literally post "You can't speak as a D2 player if you haven't even logged on b.net or done pvp/trading/ubers etc." is just as arrogant as that embarrassing statement the other guy made about gamers being beneath him lol
You and daphreak really take my comment out of context. Cascade's playstyle represents less than 1% of the D2 population and yet he's using it to make generalizations between D2 and D3. Just because he plays casually doesn't mean he represents what the majority of the casual audience wants.
Also, it's a feature that's vital to the people that want to use it, and harmless to the people that aren't interested in it. It's the same idea for other core features that D3 is missing (pvp, socializing, runewords, etc), how could these ever alienate a casual audience? If someone doesn't like them, they can opt out of doing them at no cost.
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On November 09 2016 12:12 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 11:57 Cascade wrote:On November 09 2016 08:48 bo1b wrote:
It's silly that I can't say I'm a doctor just because I didn't go to university for 6 years + placement. I mean Yeh, I did 1% of the work and studied how cell division works.
I think it's just horrible that the world caters more to people who actually put the work in when 99 % of us don't. Be more noon friendly reality.
By the way, all the people who did put the effort in should be brought down to my level. I think you meant to post this in another thread. If not, please elaborate!  i think he is trying to show that casual players shouldnt have a voice in a really poor analogy.
No I'm saying that casual players demanding the exact opposite is fucking silly.
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On November 09 2016 14:47 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 12:12 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 09 2016 11:57 Cascade wrote:On November 09 2016 08:48 bo1b wrote:
It's silly that I can't say I'm a doctor just because I didn't go to university for 6 years + placement. I mean Yeh, I did 1% of the work and studied how cell division works.
I think it's just horrible that the world caters more to people who actually put the work in when 99 % of us don't. Be more noon friendly reality.
By the way, all the people who did put the effort in should be brought down to my level. I think you meant to post this in another thread. If not, please elaborate! i think he is trying to show that casual players shouldnt have a voice in a really poor analogy. No I'm saying that casual players demanding the exact opposite is fucking silly.
casual players demanding that hardcore players shouldnt have a voice?
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On November 09 2016 14:51 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 14:47 bo1b wrote:On November 09 2016 12:12 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 09 2016 11:57 Cascade wrote:On November 09 2016 08:48 bo1b wrote:
It's silly that I can't say I'm a doctor just because I didn't go to university for 6 years + placement. I mean Yeh, I did 1% of the work and studied how cell division works.
I think it's just horrible that the world caters more to people who actually put the work in when 99 % of us don't. Be more noon friendly reality.
By the way, all the people who did put the effort in should be brought down to my level. I think you meant to post this in another thread. If not, please elaborate! i think he is trying to show that casual players shouldnt have a voice in a really poor analogy. No I'm saying that casual players demanding the exact opposite is fucking silly. casual players demanding that hardcore players shouldnt have a voice?
Casual players dramatically underselling the difference in what they get out of a game to a hardcore player, and in the process reducing it to a husk of a game.
A la Diablo 3 from Diablo 2.
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On November 09 2016 14:45 Assault_1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 12:27 Duka08 wrote:On November 09 2016 08:48 bo1b wrote:
It's silly that I can't say I'm a doctor just because I didn't go to university for 6 years + placement. I mean Yeh, I did 1% of the work and studied how cell division works.
I think it's just horrible that the world caters more to people who actually put the work in when 99 % of us don't. Be more noon friendly reality.
By the way, all the people who did put the effort in should be brought down to my level. If you're making an analogy about why the opinion of "casual" players is irrelevant then I seriously disagree. That guy made his point EXTREMELY poorly and arrogantly. But someone that's played hundreds of hours of D2, or any game for that matter, without pushing every single feature to the limit, has just as valid a viewpoint on a game and the good and bad as they see it based on their experience. I fully sympathize with more hardcore players that want a lot of value and depth and everything out of their choice of gaming experience, and I think developers ought to take that subset of players seriously because those tend to give a game a lot of longevity. With most games I play I'd put myself in this group as well. But to tell a huge range of people they're wrong and don't know what's good for the state/future of a franchise just because they're not the bleeding edge is just dense. If someone played a ton of D2 solo and with friends when they were young and love the game, even though they didn't trade extensively or join high level groups on Bnet etc etc, you still have to deal with their perspective, even if it's not the same experience you had. For someone to literally post "You can't speak as a D2 player if you haven't even logged on b.net or done pvp/trading/ubers etc." is just as arrogant as that embarrassing statement the other guy made about gamers being beneath him lol You and daphreak really take my comment out of context. Cascade's playstyle represents less than 1% of the D2 population and yet he's using it to make generalizations between D2 and D3. Just because he plays casually doesn't mean he represents what the majority of the casual audience wants. Also, it's a feature that's vital to the people that want to use it, and harmless to the people that aren't interested in it. It's the same idea for other core features that D3 is missing (pvp, socializing, runewords, etc), how could these ever alienate a casual audience? If someone doesn't like them, they can opt out of doing them at no cost.
all cascade said was that was his story. you basically told him to shut up.
i dont think anyone has argued d3 shouldnt have pvp, socializing, runewords, etc. i personally dont care if they are in the game. i wont use them, but i dont care if they make them for other people.
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Caldeum1976 Posts
On November 09 2016 14:45 Assault_1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 12:27 Duka08 wrote:On November 09 2016 08:48 bo1b wrote:
It's silly that I can't say I'm a doctor just because I didn't go to university for 6 years + placement. I mean Yeh, I did 1% of the work and studied how cell division works.
I think it's just horrible that the world caters more to people who actually put the work in when 99 % of us don't. Be more noon friendly reality.
By the way, all the people who did put the effort in should be brought down to my level. If you're making an analogy about why the opinion of "casual" players is irrelevant then I seriously disagree. That guy made his point EXTREMELY poorly and arrogantly. But someone that's played hundreds of hours of D2, or any game for that matter, without pushing every single feature to the limit, has just as valid a viewpoint on a game and the good and bad as they see it based on their experience. I fully sympathize with more hardcore players that want a lot of value and depth and everything out of their choice of gaming experience, and I think developers ought to take that subset of players seriously because those tend to give a game a lot of longevity. With most games I play I'd put myself in this group as well. But to tell a huge range of people they're wrong and don't know what's good for the state/future of a franchise just because they're not the bleeding edge is just dense. If someone played a ton of D2 solo and with friends when they were young and love the game, even though they didn't trade extensively or join high level groups on Bnet etc etc, you still have to deal with their perspective, even if it's not the same experience you had. For someone to literally post "You can't speak as a D2 player if you haven't even logged on b.net or done pvp/trading/ubers etc." is just as arrogant as that embarrassing statement the other guy made about gamers being beneath him lol You and daphreak really take my comment out of context. Cascade's playstyle represents less than 1% of the D2 population and yet he's using it to make generalizations between D2 and D3. Just because he plays casually doesn't mean he represents what the majority of the casual audience wants. Also, it's a feature that's vital to the people that want to use it, and harmless to the people that aren't interested in it. It's the same idea for other core features that D3 is missing (pvp, socializing, runewords, etc), how could these ever alienate a casual audience? If someone doesn't like them, they can opt out of doing them at no cost.
On the other hand you can't just dismiss someone's opinion because of how they played the game.
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On November 09 2016 14:45 Assault_1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 12:27 Duka08 wrote:On November 09 2016 08:48 bo1b wrote:
It's silly that I can't say I'm a doctor just because I didn't go to university for 6 years + placement. I mean Yeh, I did 1% of the work and studied how cell division works.
I think it's just horrible that the world caters more to people who actually put the work in when 99 % of us don't. Be more noon friendly reality.
By the way, all the people who did put the effort in should be brought down to my level. If you're making an analogy about why the opinion of "casual" players is irrelevant then I seriously disagree. That guy made his point EXTREMELY poorly and arrogantly. But someone that's played hundreds of hours of D2, or any game for that matter, without pushing every single feature to the limit, has just as valid a viewpoint on a game and the good and bad as they see it based on their experience. I fully sympathize with more hardcore players that want a lot of value and depth and everything out of their choice of gaming experience, and I think developers ought to take that subset of players seriously because those tend to give a game a lot of longevity. With most games I play I'd put myself in this group as well. But to tell a huge range of people they're wrong and don't know what's good for the state/future of a franchise just because they're not the bleeding edge is just dense. If someone played a ton of D2 solo and with friends when they were young and love the game, even though they didn't trade extensively or join high level groups on Bnet etc etc, you still have to deal with their perspective, even if it's not the same experience you had. For someone to literally post "You can't speak as a D2 player if you haven't even logged on b.net or done pvp/trading/ubers etc." is just as arrogant as that embarrassing statement the other guy made about gamers being beneath him lol You and daphreak really take my comment out of context. Cascade's playstyle represents less than 1% of the D2 population and yet he's using it to make generalizations between D2 and D3. Just because he plays casually doesn't mean he represents what the majority of the casual audience wants. Also, it's a feature that's vital to the people that want to use it, and harmless to the people that aren't interested in it. It's the same idea for other core features that D3 is missing (pvp, socializing, runewords, etc), how could these ever alienate a casual audience? If someone doesn't like them, they can opt out of doing them at no cost.
Are you sure that people that play D2 or D3 without ever joining a party or using Bnet/chat channels/clans/trading/whatever other social features represent 1% of the player base?
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On November 09 2016 14:45 Assault_1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 12:27 Duka08 wrote:On November 09 2016 08:48 bo1b wrote:
It's silly that I can't say I'm a doctor just because I didn't go to university for 6 years + placement. I mean Yeh, I did 1% of the work and studied how cell division works.
I think it's just horrible that the world caters more to people who actually put the work in when 99 % of us don't. Be more noon friendly reality.
By the way, all the people who did put the effort in should be brought down to my level. If you're making an analogy about why the opinion of "casual" players is irrelevant then I seriously disagree. That guy made his point EXTREMELY poorly and arrogantly. But someone that's played hundreds of hours of D2, or any game for that matter, without pushing every single feature to the limit, has just as valid a viewpoint on a game and the good and bad as they see it based on their experience. I fully sympathize with more hardcore players that want a lot of value and depth and everything out of their choice of gaming experience, and I think developers ought to take that subset of players seriously because those tend to give a game a lot of longevity. With most games I play I'd put myself in this group as well. But to tell a huge range of people they're wrong and don't know what's good for the state/future of a franchise just because they're not the bleeding edge is just dense. If someone played a ton of D2 solo and with friends when they were young and love the game, even though they didn't trade extensively or join high level groups on Bnet etc etc, you still have to deal with their perspective, even if it's not the same experience you had. For someone to literally post "You can't speak as a D2 player if you haven't even logged on b.net or done pvp/trading/ubers etc." is just as arrogant as that embarrassing statement the other guy made about gamers being beneath him lol You and daphreak really take my comment out of context. Cascade's playstyle represents less than 1% of the D2 population and yet he's using it to make generalizations between D2 and D3. Just because he plays casually doesn't mean he represents what the majority of the casual audience wants. Also, it's a feature that's vital to the people that want to use it, and harmless to the people that aren't interested in it. It's the same idea for other core features that D3 is missing (pvp, socializing, runewords, etc), how could these ever alienate a casual audience? If someone doesn't like them, they can opt out of doing them at no cost.
I point out twice in my post, first and last, that this is only me, not necessarily true for everyone.
You claim that 99% are different from me, I assume without source. (Feel free to provide one though, I'd be interested.)
And then you accuse me of making unjustified generalisations? 
I'm not saying that you are wrong. + Show Spoiler +It all depends on what you put in the expression "the D2 population". I guess you mean something like "people that play D2 on bnet", and then there will be 0% like me in that population, from the no-true-scotsman principle. If you mean "people that bought D2 and spent 100+ hours on it", then I think it's much more than 1% that never (or just a few times) went online. But you wouldn't have met them on bnet, so you don't know about them. But yeah, my guess. Don't think either of us has a reliable source here. Hard to measure how many hours ppl play offline so we'll never know I guess...
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Diablo II LoD got out when internet was still slow and not accessible to many people, so it seems fair to assume more than 1% of buyers played mainly offline.
Also, you could play with mods when offline, and if I remember correctly there were quite some people playing them.
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I would rather read about people trying D1 in D3 and giving us their impressions...
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Canada8157 Posts
Another thing that pisses me off is when I'm trying to gear up my toon, and I get drops for other classes. Is it some kind of joke? Blizzard you've restricted my ability to get gear to solely drops, and you give me other class item? Where is the sense in that?
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On November 09 2016 19:07 -Archangel- wrote:
I would rather read about people trying D1 in D3 and giving us their impressions...
diablo stream numbers kicked up significantly yesterday. however, i was way too engrossed in US's political debacle. probably try the ptr out today though.
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On November 09 2016 19:24 Jer99 wrote:
Another thing that pisses me off is when I'm trying to gear up my toon, and I get drops for other classes. Is it some kind of joke? Blizzard you've restricted my ability to get gear to solely drops, and you give me other class item? Where is the sense in that?
So you get excited and roll another class and to gear your follower.
Just played the Diablo1 retro thing. Very mixed feelings.
On one hand I was totally enchanted on the other some things were disapponting (the levels/ the loot).
I played on masters with a fresh lvl1 WD without distributing paragon. Was really hard at the first half because I got mostly crapy loot but later on everything died very easy. I think pets carried me hard at the bosses. Finished at lvl 38.
Took me almost 3h while clearing everything and going in every corner. Found only the one big obvious secret.
Will try again on live with a melee char on masters.
+ cool sounds
+ spooky music
+ suprisingly good retro look
+ some cool monsters
+ some tough bosses
+ getting used to 8 directions
+ cute secret reward
+ much nostalgia, wow
+/- a lot of loot not for your character wich for me was kind of funny/awesome because thats how it was.
- all retro items are crap (except at the very start), you get some bigname loot from boss X and it has like +4 str at lvl 20 or something (archangels staff of the apocalypse has no skills just crapy stats - and you get like 5 of them).
- lvl layout is just d3 and mostly looks the same
- only one quest
- no level shortcuts to unlock (like on lvl 7 in D1)
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On November 10 2016 03:46 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 19:07 -Archangel- wrote:
I would rather read about people trying D1 in D3 and giving us their impressions... diablo stream numbers kicked up significantly yesterday. however, i was way too engrossed in US's political debacle. probably try the ptr out today though.
because Kripp was streaming and had like 8k viewers, it's back to normal levels now lol
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On November 10 2016 03:46 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 19:07 -Archangel- wrote:
I would rather read about people trying D1 in D3 and giving us their impressions... diablo stream numbers kicked up significantly yesterday. however, i was way too engrossed in US's political debacle. probably try the ptr out today though.
Hope you can play on PTR. keep us tuned Do you own the extension ?
how do you access the PTR ? I thought it was in the region drop down but i can't see it
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On November 11 2016 06:53 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2016 03:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 09 2016 19:07 -Archangel- wrote:
I would rather read about people trying D1 in D3 and giving us their impressions... diablo stream numbers kicked up significantly yesterday. however, i was way too engrossed in US's political debacle. probably try the ptr out today though. Hope you can play on PTR. keep us tuned Do you own the extension ? how do you access the PTR ? I thought it was in the region drop down but i can't see it
i started playing last night. however, i started a new character from scratch so it will be awhile before i get to the good stuff. i own RoS, and it says a license is required to do PTR. in order to play PTR, you change your region from NA/EU/etc. to PTR.
of course, nobody will be interested in my opinion, i am just a casual player (only 500 or so hours into D3). =P
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On November 09 2016 01:30 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 09:23 Assault_1 wrote:On November 08 2016 08:59 Cascade wrote:
Not trying to prove any point, just my story:
I played many hundreds of hours of D2, but never in public games. Only single player and LAN with friends (oh, the full-weekend game clears with wonky build combinations! :D). I Don't even know how to PvP in D2. Never ubers, no trading. I never saw many of the rare OP items and runes.
I played about as much D3 (not sure which one I've spent most time on honestly), and almost always in public games unless I'm playing with RL friends. I'm was an active trader on the AU when that was up. I'm being silly in public chat regularly.
I really appreciate and love both games, but the argument that D2 was a more social game than D3 definitely isn't true in my case at least. You can't speak as a D2 player if you haven't even logged on b.net or done pvp/trading/ubers etc. When you log in, half the screen is a chat room with people chatting in channels, characters/accounts, a game lobby, just like iccup. Meanwhile D3 you don't even know if anyone is online or playing. Same thing I noticed when sc2 came out (maybe they made it better now, haven't logged on sc2 in years). I'm going to be blunt. I have a good career. When I want to socialize, I socialize with coworkers. Or fellow alum. Or fellow industry professionals. I don't want to socialize with gamers. Gaming time is alone time. Like daphreak, I turned off all of those channels. The vast majority of gamers are just beneath me in real life. I never did pvp. I was never interested in pvp. I quit D2 before ubers. I did some trading when I was an unemployed college student. It didn't last long. It's silly to say I can't speak as a D2 player because I never did those stuff you guys like. We can be elitist about different things.
lol way to trigger all the gamer losers beneath you in real life. i too ignored the chats. i sometimes posted in it to troll people which was fun, but otherwise didnt spend any time on it.
i can see why not having these things killed sc2 and d3 though.
balancing between hardcore and casual is always tricky. without casual, playerbase disappears and the game dies, now no hardcore. too casual, and hardcore get annoyed because they "worked" so hard (in a video game lol) to achieve their accomplishments which are now being handed out like candy. personally, i think they should just make games for hardcore ppl like korean MMOs, but a game like d3 is meant for casuals.
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only in a multiplayer pvp heavy game you have to make sure your playerbase has a stable core, because right now people don't want to play those games if there are not enough people for the matchmaker to work properly around.
Otherwise the game just has to be fun and you get players that stick around. And ways to mix up the game every now and then to have people coming back to the game so it stays in the talks.
For some reason people label the sedentary type "hardcore" and the nomadic type "casual". Which has a bit to do with sedentary types usually thinking they are superior to the nomadic type.
I can understand d2 players being salty about d3 though, as most stuff that makes them keep playing d2 was removed from d3 or not present at the start.
Good for me, D3 was close to beating my D1 playtime, but now I am playing D1 again. Still the most fun for me.
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On November 11 2016 08:49 FeyFey wrote:
only in a multiplayer pvp heavy game you have to make sure your playerbase has a stable core, because right now people don't want to play those games if there are not enough people for the matchmaker to work properly around.
Otherwise the game just has to be fun and you get players that stick around. And ways to mix up the game every now and then to have people coming back to the game so it stays in the talks.
For some reason people label the sedentary type "hardcore" and the nomadic type "casual". Which has a bit to do with sedentary types usually thinking they are superior to the nomadic type.
I can understand d2 players being salty about d3 though, as most stuff that makes them keep playing d2 was removed from d3 or not present at the start.
Good for me, D3 was close to beating my D1 playtime, but now I am playing D1 again. Still the most fun for me.
After years I've finally caved in and bought D3 (with RoS). At first I was quite excited when I saw all the D1 references, the prospect of fighting Leoric again made me really giddy and all. But, in the end it turned into failure and after reaching level 15 I can't really find a reason to play this game any more...
Here are some good things they've done:
1. D1 references (Adria's daughter, yay! Tristram, yay!)
2. The skill/rune mechanics are an interesting concept. So is the heal potion and teleport without cluttering your inventory and power of your skills depending on your level and gear.
Here are some bad things:
1. It's not grimdark enough
2. Way too much comic relief
3. PC's and gear look like they've been taken straight out of a generic asian MMO
4. Classes simply aren't as interesting as in D2
5. All of the skills are too flashy for my tastes
6. There's no sense of danger in the beginning (no idea if it's the same later on). You just plow through everything without any regard for safety and monsters spend more time doing pretty animations than actually hitting you. In levels 1-15 there were maybe 3 times when my health dropped just a bit. Boring.
7. Gear drops are too good. How can I be excited for good things when at lvl 15 I'm already sporting 2 legendaries and most of the rest of my eq being rares?
Meh.
It's D1 > D2 >>> D3 for me and I stand by my opinion that if Grim Dawn was titled D3 it would be a worthy successor. Right now it's simply not worth my limited time to play this game.
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you only played to level 15?
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EPT
