|
Personal attacks in this thread will draw a temp ban. |
On May 31 2011 21:40 TheSubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 17:38 damod wrote:On May 31 2011 17:29 Maliris wrote:
Idra should show more respect to minigun... minigun was outmacroing, outmicroing and outplaying idra there and idra just flames him play zerg against toss, lose to forcefields in such manner and then comeback and tell idra to show him respect. when i lose to toss because of FF i dont flame him or something, but i am mad about it because i know that its not me that did something wrong, but its the toss that did something well... The P>>Z thing is a thing of the past lol. Zergs have been finding ways to beat Protoss, and in NASL ZvP is actually 55% in favor of zerg. Idra's strengths are his multitasking, mechanics, and drone timings. That being said, he's always had a habit of microing poorly and engaging in bad positions, and those games were no exception. Also you could always get roach burrow to deal with forcefields so I don't see the "I can't do anything about it" having too much validity.
If you look at the best players, P are doing just fine, and winning against zerg more than losing.
IdrA, Ret, Sen, Zenio, MorroW, July
vs
Naniwa, White-Ra, Hasuobs, Kiwikaki, Squirtle, Ace
Kiwi -> lost to 2 terrans
WhiteRa -> lost to July (korean) and a protoss
Squirtle -> lost to a terran
NaNi -> lost to terran and protoss
Ace -> lost to 2 terrans
Hasuobs -> lost to 2 protoss and a terran.
So yeaaaaah, when you take players ike IdrA or Sen or July and put them against people like Mana, tt1, artosis, grubby, Cruncher and Tyler (who has been in a rut), then the stats can be skewed 
|
Idra started out as Terran in sc1 ... Why did he change back then to Z?
|
On May 31 2011 21:58 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 21:40 TheSubtleArt wrote:On May 31 2011 17:38 damod wrote:On May 31 2011 17:29 Maliris wrote:
Idra should show more respect to minigun... minigun was outmacroing, outmicroing and outplaying idra there and idra just flames him play zerg against toss, lose to forcefields in such manner and then comeback and tell idra to show him respect. when i lose to toss because of FF i dont flame him or something, but i am mad about it because i know that its not me that did something wrong, but its the toss that did something well... The P>>Z thing is a thing of the past lol. Zergs have been finding ways to beat Protoss, and in NASL ZvP is actually 55% in favor of zerg. Idra's strengths are his multitasking, mechanics, and drone timings. That being said, he's always had a habit of microing poorly and engaging in bad positions, and those games were no exception. Also you could always get roach burrow to deal with forcefields so I don't see the "I can't do anything about it" having too much validity. If you look at the best players, P are doing just fine, and winning against zerg more than losing. IdrA, Ret, Sen, Zenio, MorroW, July vs Naniwa, White-Ra, Hasuobs, Kiwikaki, Squirtle, Ace
Kiwi -> lost to 2 terrans
WhiteRa -> lost to July (korean) and a protoss
Squirtle -> lost to a terran
NaNi -> lost to terran and protoss
Ace -> lost to 2 terrans
Hasuobs -> lost to 2 protoss and a terran.So yeaaaaah, when you take players ike IdrA or Sen or July and put them against people like Mana, tt1, artosis, grubby, Cruncher and Tyler (who has been in a rut), then the stats can be skewed
Wouldn't it be easier to just say the better players (in those matches, not overall kk) won?
|
I can't stop laughing at all the content in this thread. XD
|
On May 31 2011 22:03 Kleinmuuhg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 21:58 Mailing wrote:On May 31 2011 21:40 TheSubtleArt wrote:On May 31 2011 17:38 damod wrote:On May 31 2011 17:29 Maliris wrote:
Idra should show more respect to minigun... minigun was outmacroing, outmicroing and outplaying idra there and idra just flames him play zerg against toss, lose to forcefields in such manner and then comeback and tell idra to show him respect. when i lose to toss because of FF i dont flame him or something, but i am mad about it because i know that its not me that did something wrong, but its the toss that did something well... The P>>Z thing is a thing of the past lol. Zergs have been finding ways to beat Protoss, and in NASL ZvP is actually 55% in favor of zerg. Idra's strengths are his multitasking, mechanics, and drone timings. That being said, he's always had a habit of microing poorly and engaging in bad positions, and those games were no exception. Also you could always get roach burrow to deal with forcefields so I don't see the "I can't do anything about it" having too much validity. If you look at the best players, P are doing just fine, and winning against zerg more than losing. IdrA, Ret, Sen, Zenio, MorroW, July vs Naniwa, White-Ra, Hasuobs, Kiwikaki, Squirtle, Ace
Kiwi -> lost to 2 terrans
WhiteRa -> lost to July (korean) and a protoss
Squirtle -> lost to a terran
NaNi -> lost to terran and protoss
Ace -> lost to 2 terrans
Hasuobs -> lost to 2 protoss and a terran.So yeaaaaah, when you take players ike IdrA or Sen or July and put them against people like Mana, tt1, artosis, grubby, Cruncher and Tyler (who has been in a rut), then the stats can be skewed Wouldn't it be easier to just say the better players (in those matches, not overall kk) won?
Yes, but a lot of people have been using NASL and GSL to say that zerg are doing amazing vs protoss, and it simply is not true.
You got NesTea doing amazing vs people like Anypro and Inca, and all of a sudden zerg OP. TT1 has been in a lot of LR thread recently complaining about Infestors and how hard ZvP is for example.
|
On May 31 2011 22:06 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 22:03 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 31 2011 21:58 Mailing wrote:On May 31 2011 21:40 TheSubtleArt wrote:On May 31 2011 17:38 damod wrote:On May 31 2011 17:29 Maliris wrote:
Idra should show more respect to minigun... minigun was outmacroing, outmicroing and outplaying idra there and idra just flames him play zerg against toss, lose to forcefields in such manner and then comeback and tell idra to show him respect. when i lose to toss because of FF i dont flame him or something, but i am mad about it because i know that its not me that did something wrong, but its the toss that did something well... The P>>Z thing is a thing of the past lol. Zergs have been finding ways to beat Protoss, and in NASL ZvP is actually 55% in favor of zerg. Idra's strengths are his multitasking, mechanics, and drone timings. That being said, he's always had a habit of microing poorly and engaging in bad positions, and those games were no exception. Also you could always get roach burrow to deal with forcefields so I don't see the "I can't do anything about it" having too much validity. If you look at the best players, P are doing just fine, and winning against zerg more than losing. IdrA, Ret, Sen, Zenio, MorroW, July vs Naniwa, White-Ra, Hasuobs, Kiwikaki, Squirtle, Ace
Kiwi -> lost to 2 terrans
WhiteRa -> lost to July (korean) and a protoss
Squirtle -> lost to a terran
NaNi -> lost to terran and protoss
Ace -> lost to 2 terrans
Hasuobs -> lost to 2 protoss and a terran.So yeaaaaah, when you take players ike IdrA or Sen or July and put them against people like Mana, tt1, artosis, grubby, Cruncher and Tyler (who has been in a rut), then the stats can be skewed Wouldn't it be easier to just say the better players (in those matches, not overall kk) won? Yes, but a lot of people have been using NASL and GSL to say that zerg are doing amazing vs protoss, and it simply is not true. You got NesTea doing amazing vs people like Anypro and Inca, and all of a sudden zerg OP. TT1 has been in a lot of LR thread recently complaining about Infestors and how hard ZvP is for example.
Yes I understand your point, but I wouldnt counter Protoss whining with a statement like "good Protoss only lose to Terrans" I think we can just agree on Protoss whining being as useless as any other balance/match-up whining.
|
WhiteRa -> lost to July (korean) and a protoss
Bear in mind WhiteRa forfeited the game against July due to being at dreamhack.
|
On May 31 2011 21:58 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 21:40 TheSubtleArt wrote:On May 31 2011 17:38 damod wrote:On May 31 2011 17:29 Maliris wrote:
Idra should show more respect to minigun... minigun was outmacroing, outmicroing and outplaying idra there and idra just flames him play zerg against toss, lose to forcefields in such manner and then comeback and tell idra to show him respect. when i lose to toss because of FF i dont flame him or something, but i am mad about it because i know that its not me that did something wrong, but its the toss that did something well... The P>>Z thing is a thing of the past lol. Zergs have been finding ways to beat Protoss, and in NASL ZvP is actually 55% in favor of zerg. Idra's strengths are his multitasking, mechanics, and drone timings. That being said, he's always had a habit of microing poorly and engaging in bad positions, and those games were no exception. Also you could always get roach burrow to deal with forcefields so I don't see the "I can't do anything about it" having too much validity. If you look at the best players, P are doing just fine, and winning against zerg more than losing. IdrA, Ret, Sen, Zenio, MorroW, July vs Naniwa, White-Ra, Hasuobs, Kiwikaki, Squirtle, Ace
Kiwi -> lost to 2 terrans
WhiteRa -> lost to July (korean) and a protoss
Squirtle -> lost to a terran
NaNi -> lost to terran and protoss
Ace -> lost to 2 terrans
Hasuobs -> lost to 2 protoss and a terran.So yeaaaaah, when you take players ike IdrA or Sen or July and put them against people like Mana, tt1, artosis, grubby, Cruncher and Tyler (who has been in a rut), then the stats can be skewed
Master-class statistical analysis right here.
|
are EG vs ROOT vods out yet? from egmc?
|
Think I read Idra went 3-2 against Machine a page or 2 ago.
Damn that must of been awkward being in the same room.
|
On May 31 2011 22:54 Denzil wrote:
Think I read Idra went 3-2 against Machine a page or 2 ago.
Damn that must of been awkward being in the same room.
Why?
|
On May 31 2011 21:58 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 21:40 TheSubtleArt wrote:On May 31 2011 17:38 damod wrote:On May 31 2011 17:29 Maliris wrote:
Idra should show more respect to minigun... minigun was outmacroing, outmicroing and outplaying idra there and idra just flames him play zerg against toss, lose to forcefields in such manner and then comeback and tell idra to show him respect. when i lose to toss because of FF i dont flame him or something, but i am mad about it because i know that its not me that did something wrong, but its the toss that did something well... The P>>Z thing is a thing of the past lol. Zergs have been finding ways to beat Protoss, and in NASL ZvP is actually 55% in favor of zerg. Idra's strengths are his multitasking, mechanics, and drone timings. That being said, he's always had a habit of microing poorly and engaging in bad positions, and those games were no exception. Also you could always get roach burrow to deal with forcefields so I don't see the "I can't do anything about it" having too much validity. If you look at the best players, P are doing just fine, and winning against zerg more than losing. IdrA, Ret, Sen, Zenio, MorroW, July vs Naniwa, White-Ra, Hasuobs, Kiwikaki, Squirtle, Ace
Kiwi -> lost to 2 terrans
WhiteRa -> lost to July (korean) and a protoss
Squirtle -> lost to a terran
NaNi -> lost to terran and protoss
Ace -> lost to 2 terrans
Hasuobs -> lost to 2 protoss and a terran.So yeaaaaah, when you take players ike IdrA or Sen or July and put them against people like Mana, tt1, artosis, grubby, Cruncher and Tyler (who has been in a rut), then the stats can be skewed
That didn't make any sense. I'm talking about direct stats. ZvP in NASL right now is 48-39, that's a 55% win rate for Zergs. How are Protoss winning against Zergs more than they are losing? I also love how any time a Zerg beats a Protoss it's always assumed te Zerg player was better but it's never worked the other way around.
Oh, Zerg's doing well in a league? Here, let me look at all of the series and show you why the Zerg players were unanimously better than the Protoss players and deserved to win. Forget doing that for the Protoss players who beat Zergs.
|
United States15275 Posts
On May 31 2011 22:06 Mailing wrote:
Yes, but a lot of people have been using NASL and GSL to say that zerg are doing amazing vs protoss, and it simply is not true.
You got NesTea doing amazing vs people like Anypro and Inca, and all of a sudden zerg OP. TT1 has been in a lot of LR thread recently complaining about Infestors and how hard ZvP is for example.
Anypro isn't bad, not as bad as people like to pretend. TT1...let's say I don't have the greatest opinion of him atm.
What's more important is that Idra going to beast at Columbus. He's in sick form right now.
|
On May 31 2011 21:58 Juice! wrote:
Idra started out as Terran in sc1 ... Why did he change back then to Z?
In SC1 Terran is the most macro intensive race.
In SC2 Zerg is the most macro intensive race.
Thats why :p
|
On May 31 2011 21:58 Juice! wrote:
Idra started out as Terran in sc1 ... Why did he change back then to Z?
Because artosis is fucking retarded.
+ Show Spoiler +To quote idra of course lol
|
On May 31 2011 18:10 OptimusYale wrote:Spanishiwa Late night stream sniping IdrA. Took a game off him, cheers!  Off his facebook, so not really a win for him
hows that not a win?
|
its crazy people actually brag about beating idra on ladder, i wonder if it is an ego boost to him or he just finds it as sad as i do
|
|
|
|
|
On May 31 2011 23:34 TheSubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 21:58 Mailing wrote:On May 31 2011 21:40 TheSubtleArt wrote:On May 31 2011 17:38 damod wrote:On May 31 2011 17:29 Maliris wrote:
Idra should show more respect to minigun... minigun was outmacroing, outmicroing and outplaying idra there and idra just flames him play zerg against toss, lose to forcefields in such manner and then comeback and tell idra to show him respect. when i lose to toss because of FF i dont flame him or something, but i am mad about it because i know that its not me that did something wrong, but its the toss that did something well... The P>>Z thing is a thing of the past lol. Zergs have been finding ways to beat Protoss, and in NASL ZvP is actually 55% in favor of zerg. Idra's strengths are his multitasking, mechanics, and drone timings. That being said, he's always had a habit of microing poorly and engaging in bad positions, and those games were no exception. Also you could always get roach burrow to deal with forcefields so I don't see the "I can't do anything about it" having too much validity. If you look at the best players, P are doing just fine, and winning against zerg more than losing. IdrA, Ret, Sen, Zenio, MorroW, July vs Naniwa, White-Ra, Hasuobs, Kiwikaki, Squirtle, Ace
Kiwi -> lost to 2 terrans
WhiteRa -> lost to July (korean) and a protoss
Squirtle -> lost to a terran
NaNi -> lost to terran and protoss
Ace -> lost to 2 terrans
Hasuobs -> lost to 2 protoss and a terran.So yeaaaaah, when you take players ike IdrA or Sen or July and put them against people like Mana, tt1, artosis, grubby, Cruncher and Tyler (who has been in a rut), then the stats can be skewed That didn't make any sense. I'm talking about direct stats. ZvP in NASL right now is 48-39, that's a 55% win rate for Zergs. How are Protoss winning against Zergs more than they are losing? I also love how any time a Zerg beats a Protoss it's always assumed te Zerg player was better but it's never worked the other way around. Oh, Zerg's doing well in a league? Here, let me look at all of the series and show you why the Zerg players were unanimously better than the Protoss players and deserved to win. Forget doing that for the Protoss players who beat Zergs.
Direct stats need some analysis, especially considering that there's protoss that aren't THAT good in NASL. Artosis/Grubby are good but most players in the league are better.
The fact that top protoss rarely loose a BoX against Zerg is significant.
Also if you put the NASL stats aside, lots of pro Zerg have been pointing out some problems concerning PvZ, and I believe GSL stats also tend to show it (not totally sure though).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
