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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On August 09 2017 03:43 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 03:42 VHbb wrote:On August 09 2017 03:31 Dazed. wrote:On August 08 2017 11:43 B.I.G. wrote:
I love that we have people here that can use their vast experience fighting Ghengis Khan's Golden Horde and tell us that armored pike lines would totally have won that fight.
Mongols used armour...they also primarily fought as horse archers or attacked weakened/running infantry lines, they did not charge spearmen. Charging spearmen was not a thing at any point in warfare, not even cataphracts did that shit. I *might* be wrong (not a super expert in history and war tacticts from the past) but I seem to remember that also flying fire-breathing dragons wer ealso not a thing at any point in warfare.. Again - maybe I'm just not recalling  Yeah what's history say about a spear line facing off against something like 1:10 odds with a fire breathing dragon overhead. It's a bit silly, to charge like that, but the Dothraki do have a lot at their side (mounted archers too) and an established disregard for their own safety.
The fact that their opponents had some really short spear.
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Established lack of concern does not equal taking nonsensical military actions. How are the dothraki a feared military force if they dont understand the basics of cavalry based warfare, as a cavalry based army? I'm not upset that dannys army won, or that the Dothraki overcame their lines eventually, as fire and all that, I am upset that they charged into a formed line of heavily armoured spears. Given that there was a dragon [and an ambush] its simply unacceptably bad writing and directing to go in that direction. They could of simply shown the spear line break in fear of the fire, or shot at them with arrows, or a million different things. It was stupid. When you make needlessly ridiculous mistakes like that, it does not bode well for future episodes.
Or how about Brienne kicking arya in the chest full blast, and arya magically not being injured? I didnt know training to fight in darkness caused your body to resist injuries. This show has gone from intrigue and dialogue and low fantasy into high fantasy [fine by me] fan service nonsensical schlock [not fine by me].
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I watched Arya get beat in the face with a stick for a full season. Did we think she can’t take a hit? And I watch athletes take hits all the time and they survive.
And this is a TV show, not Game of Thrones total war. The scene in question is a call back to movies like Zulu and westerns, where the “hordes” ride over the hill in full charge. They are not here to simulate military tactics.
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That spear line is as thin as it gets. You are supposed to have multiple ranks for spearmen to stop anything.
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I would hope part of saving Jamie includes taking his armor off, I'd also accept a dragon diving in and yanking them out like small salmon.
On the Dothraki I thought they did a good job with that, The Dragon broke the line and they ran through the hole before actually attacking the front. Such a type of an attack (minus dragons) was not uncommon for the comparable RL time period.
That said it's not the most efficient method as far as preserving her army, but they were short on food and the dragon seemed to blow a bunch up so having a few less mouths to feed could very well be part of a strategic decision.
Also the less Dothraki you have to eventually settle in Westeros the easier.
I'm just hoping Tyrion pulls some clever trick out of his ass soon, I don't want to see him be the next lannister to go.
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On August 09 2017 05:32 andrewlt wrote:
That spear line is as thin as it gets. You are supposed to have multiple ranks for spearmen to stop anything.
They could have won the battle without casualties if they had just horsearchered them to death without going near them.
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United States43971 Posts
On August 09 2017 03:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 03:09 B.I.G. wrote:
Plansix did you know a lot of western movies were shot in Spain? I guess the similarities in landscape has been common knowledge for movie and tv people for a while now. That joke as from the Nerdette podcast who noted that the landscape suddenly changed because large number of horses needed to be shot. I know that a lot of location shooting happens outside of the US, for obvious reasons(we don’t have cool castles or landmarks) I didn’t know Spain was the new hub however. Everyone was addicted to New Zealand for a like a decade.
New Zealand pays studios to shoot there. That's why NZ happened. Tax credits.
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On August 09 2017 00:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2017 23:56 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2017 22:39 Plansix wrote:
Someone pointed out that it is totally weird that a part of the south we have never seen looks just like Utah. I’m willing to forgive the magical pool of secret deep water since they were likely limited on exactly how they could shoot that scene. The entire battle was so impressive for being on a TV show. It would have been so easy to do all that fire with CGI, but they didn’t and the show was so much better for it. The featurette says it was Spain. Why does Spain look like Utah? That is weird. Spain should look like Spain.
A lot of places in the world look kind of similar. Often I'll be watching a film or TV show and someone will say "hey that looks like X place" when it's actually another place.
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Experts on medieval only have some old texts to go by and frequently turn out to be wrong.
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I kind of thought part of the point of that battle was that Dany is not an amazing, or even very good, military tactician who won the battle on the back of basically having a jet plane. I think they even kind of alluded to this in the after-episode commentary.
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On August 09 2017 15:43 TheTenthDoc wrote:
I kind of thought part of the point of that battle was that Dany is not an amazing, or even very good, military tactician who won the battle on the back of basically having a jet plane. I think they even kind of alluded to this in the after-episode commentary.
Dany's whole story is encountering tons of obstacles that she didn't anticipate while learning to be the leader that she's fated to be. Personally, I think for the TV series they made her more arrogant and douchey, whereas in the book she seemed more like Jon Snow's character: a hero reluctant to accept his/her status as a "chosen one".
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On August 09 2017 15:43 TheTenthDoc wrote:
I kind of thought part of the point of that battle was that Dany is not an amazing, or even very good, military tactician who won the battle on the back of basically having a jet plane. I think they even kind of alluded to this in the after-episode commentary.
Why would people think that? If she were throwing the horse onto speared formation then yeah, complete disadvantage.
But she has the dragons to punch through a hole in the shield formation. Once that's gone, the battle is won essentially.
She chose to be flying in the front to punch that hole and not to mention it is on a huge open field advantage
Also someone said they could horsearching them to death. I quite disagree with that, this is just the small part of the lannister army and they are the defensive one.
Time is essence.
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Also, they are Dothraki - I don't think their style of combat is to arch someone to death..
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On August 07 2017 11:03 Emnjay808 wrote:
Holy fuck that battle was pretty fucking insane.
3 hatch muta
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On August 09 2017 15:04 B.I.G. wrote:
Experts on medieval only have some old texts to go by and frequently turn out to be wrong.
Or the text is straight up inaccurate or lies. There were no word processors or printing presses back in these eras, so the people writing the texts are not the same people that commanded the military. Much of what we believe about historical combat is inferred from artifacts.
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On August 09 2017 17:12 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 15:43 TheTenthDoc wrote:
I kind of thought part of the point of that battle was that Dany is not an amazing, or even very good, military tactician who won the battle on the back of basically having a jet plane. I think they even kind of alluded to this in the after-episode commentary. Why would people think that? If she were throwing the horse onto speared formation then yeah, complete disadvantage. But she has the dragons to punch through a hole in the shield formation. Once that's gone, the battle is won essentially. She chose to be flying in the front to punch that hole and not to mention it is on a huge open field advantage Also someone said they could horsearching them to death. I quite disagree with that, this is just the small part of the lannister army and they are the defensive one. Time is essence.
Mostly because she charged with the horsemen before actually blowing holes in the enemy formation, didn't really focus her charge on the holes or have any overall direction pushing the Dothraki towards those holes, and only brought one dragon when she could have brought three. This seemed to me more like "throw my weapons at the enemy" than "utilize them optimally strategically" which seems more fitting for her character at least from how she frustrated she's been with clever plans.
Could obviously be misremembering or misinterpreting though, only watched it the once yesterday night
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On August 09 2017 22:12 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 17:12 ETisME wrote:On August 09 2017 15:43 TheTenthDoc wrote:
I kind of thought part of the point of that battle was that Dany is not an amazing, or even very good, military tactician who won the battle on the back of basically having a jet plane. I think they even kind of alluded to this in the after-episode commentary. Why would people think that? If she were throwing the horse onto speared formation then yeah, complete disadvantage. But she has the dragons to punch through a hole in the shield formation. Once that's gone, the battle is won essentially. She chose to be flying in the front to punch that hole and not to mention it is on a huge open field advantage Also someone said they could horsearching them to death. I quite disagree with that, this is just the small part of the lannister army and they are the defensive one. Time is essence. Mostly because she charged with the horsemen before actually blowing holes in the enemy formation, didn't really focus her charge on the holes or have any overall direction pushing the Dothraki towards those holes, and only brought one dragon when she could have brought three. This seemed more like "throw my weapons at the enemy" than "utilize them optimally strategically" which seems more fitting for her character at least from how she frustrated she's been with clever plans.
She brought 1 because she can only control Drogon. The other 2 need their own riders. My bet is Jon will ride one. Maybe Jaime, or perhaps Jorah, the other.
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It was a freaking dragon blitzkrieg. Thin line spread out to meet the massive horde and not get surrounded. Dragon shows up, mop up a portion of the thin line, dothraki gets through and start surrounding the lannisters and charging them from the front to keep'em in place. Danny focus on the convoy, because the battle was already won, there were too many fucking dothrakis. Is it realistic ? I don't fucking know, and i don't even care, but the rationalization is there in the chapter and it's obvious enough. If you were expecting a historical recreation, it's your fault if you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
On August 09 2017 22:15 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 22:12 TheTenthDoc wrote:On August 09 2017 17:12 ETisME wrote:On August 09 2017 15:43 TheTenthDoc wrote:
I kind of thought part of the point of that battle was that Dany is not an amazing, or even very good, military tactician who won the battle on the back of basically having a jet plane. I think they even kind of alluded to this in the after-episode commentary. Why would people think that? If she were throwing the horse onto speared formation then yeah, complete disadvantage. But she has the dragons to punch through a hole in the shield formation. Once that's gone, the battle is won essentially. She chose to be flying in the front to punch that hole and not to mention it is on a huge open field advantage Also someone said they could horsearching them to death. I quite disagree with that, this is just the small part of the lannister army and they are the defensive one. Time is essence. Mostly because she charged with the horsemen before actually blowing holes in the enemy formation, didn't really focus her charge on the holes or have any overall direction pushing the Dothraki towards those holes, and only brought one dragon when she could have brought three. This seemed more like "throw my weapons at the enemy" than "utilize them optimally strategically" which seems more fitting for her character at least from how she frustrated she's been with clever plans. She brought 1 because she can only control Drogon. The other 2 need their own riders. My bet is Jon will ride one. Maybe Jaime, or perhaps Jorah, the other.
I'm pretty sure one of the dragons will be mindcontrolled by Bran. After all, that's what was vaguely promised to him by the Three-Eyed Raven when they just met.
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Discussion based on trailers for next week go into clearly marked spoiler tags.
Episode 5 preview
+ Show Spoiler + I'm not here to murder
Bend the knee and join me...
OR REFUSE AND DIE seriously?
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EPT
