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On August 15 2017 04:53 LegalLord wrote: Yeah, they should use Goku less. Or give him a more meaningful opponent. But they're mostly just saving the best for last I guess?
But this isn't much different from the early rounds in the Tenkaichi Budokai arcs. Goku won't be losing to Manwolf or Pamput or Krillin or whatever. That also had no tension but like this, it was still kinda fun.
That's true (although Krillin beating Goku back in the original DB was far, far more conceivable than Yacchaina girl beating Goku now). But at least Krillin was another character you'd care about at that point, that kinda carries the fight. Since the Universe 9 destruction I don't think Goku was really involved in anything interesting.
Also I just realized, there has been 30-some eliminations and Universe 7 is responsible for like 25 of them. That sure doesn't help me take the other universes seriously.
On August 15 2017 04:53 LegalLord wrote: Yeah, they should use Goku less. Or give him a more meaningful opponent. But they're mostly just saving the best for last I guess?
But this isn't much different from the early rounds in the Tenkaichi Budokai arcs. Goku won't be losing to Manwolf or Pamput or Krillin or whatever. That also had no tension but like this, it was still kinda fun.
Good thought. I have had a hard time putting my finger on what exactly I don't like, and I think it all comes down to this. If you decide that Goku has to be the focus of almost every episode, and yet you can't just throw the toughest guy at him from the beginning, you end up really shitting on power dynamics.
And I think you're right about the second point, which is what I was getting at earlier. I do think it is really weird how they are essentially doing a tenkaichi arc all within a single match. It is really hard to make it feel appropriate in every way when you are breaking so many rules.
On August 15 2017 04:53 LegalLord wrote: Yeah, they should use Goku less. Or give him a more meaningful opponent. But they're mostly just saving the best for last I guess?
But this isn't much different from the early rounds in the Tenkaichi Budokai arcs. Goku won't be losing to Manwolf or Pamput or Krillin or whatever. That also had no tension but like this, it was still kinda fun.
That's true (although Krillin beating Goku back in the original DB was far, far more conceivable than Yacchaina girl beating Goku now). But at least Krillin was another character you'd care about at that point, that kinda carries the fight. Since the Universe 9 destruction I don't think Goku was really involved in anything interesting.
Also I just realized, there has been 30-some eliminations and Universe 7 is responsible for like 25 of them. That sure doesn't help me take the other universes seriously.
Anyone who has seriously played FFA in an RTS (WC3 #1) should perhaps even be impressed with the way things are going. In FFA, the only people attacking as early as the people attacking are the scrubs who accidentally suicide you. And they die to your defense every time.
Everyone who we have seen do tactical retreats are also the ones who we are all actually "concerned" about eliminating U7 fighters. Jiren, Toppo, sailor moon, yardat are all laying low despite being among the strongest.
There are also fighters we still don't even know about. We need to keep that in mind. Maybe one of the fighters has been charging an attack in secret this entire time? Who knows. But point being, this early on (less than 20% of the total time), the strong players SHOULD be almost purely defensive and only concerned with securing information.
The big complication is the fact that U7 are considered the ones responsible for this whole ordeal. Goku in particular. Everyone knows U7 is one of the favorites.
By the way, does anyone feel that Kriller was eliminated so early do avoid a love triangle (of battle) between him and 17 for fighting alongside 18? They definitely don't make a good trio and Krillin was the least interesting of the three so I think that's why he had to be benched.
On August 15 2017 05:32 LegalLord wrote: By the way, does anyone feel that Kriller was eliminated so early do avoid a love triangle (of battle) between him and 17 for fighting alongside 18? They definitely don't make a good trio and Krillin was the least interesting of the three so I think that's why he had to be benched.
Krillin was just the weakest in the group. He might be smart at tactics, but power level-wise, he's the weakest. There's still Tien and Roshi.
On August 15 2017 05:32 LegalLord wrote: By the way, does anyone feel that Kriller was eliminated so early do avoid a love triangle (of battle) between him and 17 for fighting alongside 18? They definitely don't make a good trio and Krillin was the least interesting of the three so I think that's why he had to be benched.
Krillin was just the weakest in the group. He might be smart at tactics, but power level-wise, he's the weakest. There's still Tien and Roshi.
On August 15 2017 05:32 LegalLord wrote: By the way, does anyone feel that Kriller was eliminated so early do avoid a love triangle (of battle) between him and 17 for fighting alongside 18? They definitely don't make a good trio and Krillin was the least interesting of the three so I think that's why he had to be benched.
You know why Krillin doesn't jive well with 17/18? Because he is weak and a shitty character. He has no value.
I never knew I'd say that, but it just feels like U7 is too stacked right now. They have 5 Tier 1 / Tier 2 fighters (including Gohan and 17), that is, people who will basically one-shot plebs when they get serious ; feels like U6 and U7 only have couple of those each, and so far, the rest of Universes has mostly shown sub-SSJ2 cannon fodder. It's becoming a bit hard to care, and Goku's 'it's the apocalypse and I'm in base form' demeanour doesn't help. Gohan's respectful behaviour towards his opponent was a nice touch. Will it be enough for another 20 episodes or so of filler at that rate ? How did we get there ?
On August 15 2017 05:12 LegalLord wrote: U9 got eliminated because they specifically went after U7. That explains 10 kills.
Freezer randomly owned a few people, so did 17.
Kale and Caulifa got like 7 kills between the two, Cabba got at least two more, Hit at least one.
I explain away a lot of the U7 kills by the fact that too many parties went after Goku and got smacked down by him and his buddies.
It's not just Goku. I think every single member of U7, maybe except Tien? (my memory's hazy), has eliminated somebody else at this point. Even Krillin managed to get two before getting eliminated himself. The weakest member of U7 eliminated two fighters and only got eliminated by a sneak attack. No wonder there's not much tension. Most of these people are fodder for the likes of Goku but they just have to show him fighting every week.
Next episode looks cool, but I agree they need to make something happen fast, something like 17 getting eliminated, something surprising. So far, it's been one of the worst arcs I've seen. There's no tension. Goku either stomps people or is shown to be incompetent, and as you guys say he appears on every episode, he event had to go and watch Gohan fight and tell the audience "nah, gohan is gonna wreck him" for some reason.
I'm guessing what they are trying to do is remove the weakest fighters first so in the end its a battle between goku/vegeta/Jiren/Hit thing, but it makes it boring. One way they could do to avoid it is just..show the other characters like you guys said. Sure, U3 fighters might be shit, but if they fight tien and roshi it would be a fun matchup. I want to see Frieza just destroying everything, making a plan with Frost even if it's a bad one, just watch him do something. Where's Vegeta? He refused to hit that girl and then dissappeared, he's an interesting character, show us more.
Maybe they are not showing the others so they can make Jiren beat Goku, but U7 still wins because time ran out and they had the most fighters.
On August 15 2017 10:33 [Phantom] wrote: Next episode looks cool, but I agree they need to make something happen fast, something like 17 getting eliminated, something surprising. So far, it's been one of the worst arcs I've seen. There's no tension. Goku either stomps people or is shown to be incompetent, and as you guys say he appears on every episode, he event had to go and watch Gohan fight and tell the audience "nah, gohan is gonna wreck him" for some reason.
I'm guessing what they are trying to do is remove the weakest fighters first so in the end its a battle between goku/vegeta/Jiren/Hit thing, but it makes it boring. One way they could do to avoid it is just..show the other characters like you guys said. Sure, U3 fighters might be shit, but if they fight tien and roshi it would be a fun matchup. I want to see Frieza just destroying everything, making a plan with Frost even if it's a bad one, just watch him do something. Where's Vegeta? He refused to hit that girl and then dissappeared, he's an interesting character, show us more.
Maybe they are not showing the others so they can make Jiren beat Goku, but U7 still wins because time ran out and they had the most fighters.
Lol Goku fights Jiren for like 20 episodes and in the mean time U7 mops up the rest of the fighters. Jiren beats Goku after a really intense fight only to realize that time ran out and U7 won. He gets chosen as the best fighter and wishes that the universes are saved.
Would be so silly but I wouldn't put it past them.
On August 15 2017 10:33 [Phantom] wrote: Next episode looks cool, but I agree they need to make something happen fast, something like 17 getting eliminated, something surprising. So far, it's been one of the worst arcs I've seen. There's no tension. Goku either stomps people or is shown to be incompetent, and as you guys say he appears on every episode, he event had to go and watch Gohan fight and tell the audience "nah, gohan is gonna wreck him" for some reason.
I'm guessing what they are trying to do is remove the weakest fighters first so in the end its a battle between goku/vegeta/Jiren/Hit thing, but it makes it boring. One way they could do to avoid it is just..show the other characters like you guys said. Sure, U3 fighters might be shit, but if they fight tien and roshi it would be a fun matchup. I want to see Frieza just destroying everything, making a plan with Frost even if it's a bad one, just watch him do something. Where's Vegeta? He refused to hit that girl and then dissappeared, he's an interesting character, show us more.
Maybe they are not showing the others so they can make Jiren beat Goku, but U7 still wins because time ran out and they had the most fighters.
I think you and many others are suffering from extremely unmet expectations. And I think it makes sense, given the structure of stories that we are used to. By the time Goku met up with Raditz, Vegeta arrived on Earth, Goku arrived on Namek, the time the androids showed up, the time the "cell games" began, shit has gotten real nice and quick.
In this case, we are IN the tournament, and yet, this is more analogous to the time when everyone on Namek was waiting for Goku to arrive. Goku is there, the enemies are there, but they aren't fighting. They are meters away, not fighting. I think this messes with a lot of people and makes the arc feel extremely benign. The beginning of the tournament is *not* the beginning of the "fighting". We are not at "the fight" yet and we likely won't be for a while.
And that's fine. We can enjoy some foreplay. It doesn't need to go straight to intercourse.
On August 15 2017 12:36 Mohdoo wrote: And that's fine. We can enjoy some foreplay. It doesn't need to go straight to intercourse.
Totally fine... as long as foreplay's stimulating. ;p
On a sidenote, we shouldn't have to pick between either some Gohan or some Vegeta action in our DBS episodes. ( cue foreplay jokes in three...two...one...)
On August 15 2017 12:36 Mohdoo wrote: And that's fine. We can enjoy some foreplay. It doesn't need to go straight to intercourse.
Get real, are you saying you actually watch the foreplay when you're choking your chicken? Nobody does that. Everyone skips right to the juicy parts.
The problem with Dragon Ball Super is that nothing feels threatening. In DBZ, people were very close to being killed (e.g. fighting Nappa). I guess you could say Bulma died in the Black arc... That part was kind of cool.
Now it just feels like everything is "fun" and Goku wants to fight because it's "fun".
I do wish they would show what the rest of the group are doing, especially considering they were trying to work out strats and whole point of picking them over goten, trunks was that they have experience in strats...which we've seen nothing of outside of the stick together...duh and even that doesnt work. Power straight up seems to be the determining factor, there have been zero successful strats by any of the unvierses.
Also didnt picolo and gohan have something worked out....still havnt seen it.
On August 15 2017 12:36 Mohdoo wrote: And that's fine. We can enjoy some foreplay. It doesn't need to go straight to intercourse.
Get real, are you saying you actually watch the foreplay when you're choking your chicken? Nobody does that. Everyone skips right to the juicy parts.
The problem with Dragon Ball Super is that nothing feels threatening. In DBZ, people were very close to being killed (e.g. fighting Nappa). I guess you could say Bulma died in the Black arc... That part was kind of cool.
Now it just feels like everything is "fun" and Goku wants to fight because it's "fun".
Think about all the build up to the androids. From the moment we knew androids were a threat, at what point was there a fight?
Now, I will admit that DBZ was downright superior storytelling. I am not denying that DBS is objectively worse. I am just pointing out that there is more to it than that. Toriyama is also clearly checking off some bucket list items, so to speak. A lot of things he always WANTED to happen, but things he knew were also fundamentally flawed.
If I may entertain some plot predictions: I think U7 is going to win, all the other universes destroyed. Actually destroyed. The remainder of DBS becomes GT'esque where the Z fighters are given reasons to explore the various, massively superior universes. I think the strong GoD, that lizard guy, ends up being the antagonist during one of these arcs.
EDIT: Another option: What if, of the 8 competing universes, 2 are merged within one of the 4 "dominant" universes?
On August 15 2017 12:36 Mohdoo wrote: And that's fine. We can enjoy some foreplay. It doesn't need to go straight to intercourse.
Get real, are you saying you actually watch the foreplay when you're choking your chicken? Nobody does that. Everyone skips right to the juicy parts.
The problem with Dragon Ball Super is that nothing feels threatening. In DBZ, people were very close to being killed (e.g. fighting Nappa). I guess you could say Bulma died in the Black arc... That part was kind of cool.
Now it just feels like everything is "fun" and Goku wants to fight because it's "fun".
Think about all the build up to the androids. From the moment we knew androids were a threat, at what point was there a fight?
Now, I will admit that DBZ was downright superior storytelling. I am not denying that DBS is objectively worse. I am just pointing out that there is more to it than that. Toriyama is also clearly checking off some bucket list items, so to speak. A lot of things he always WANTED to happen, but things he knew were also fundamentally flawed.
If I may entertain some plot predictions: I think U7 is going to win, all the other universes destroyed. Actually destroyed. The remainder of DBS becomes GT'esque where the Z fighters are given reasons to explore the various, massively superior universes. I think the strong GoD, that lizard guy, ends up being the antagonist during one of these arcs.
EDIT: Another option: What if, of the 8 competing universes, 2 are merged within one of the 4 "dominant" universes?
We might not live that long to see that happen, but if it does, I'm holding you personally responsible and I will haunt you. Or your ghost. Can ghosts haunt other ghosts?
EPT
