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Elentos
55594 Posts
On September 22 2021 08:07 LegalLord wrote:
I liked the part where they waffled back and forth about who is and isn’t strong enough to win the fight.
And the part where everyone decided they were willing to die.
So I guess now that this fight has ended, we will move on to the real big bad of this arc? Which I assume will be the space criminals we've seen a few times (probably also using the Dragon Balls or something for a bullshit power up to Goku/Vegeta level?). I mean we've name dropped Frieza like 35 times but surely not, right?
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To be clear, the chapter as a whole wasn't bad. It's more that I'm just over Goku's omnipotent ability to ass pull more abilities. And then there's the ending, which I had no idea was coming but am super stoked to read next month. Vegeta is always great so more of him and I'm generally content.
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By "shifting" they meant that goku moved slightly out of the way, not that was was literally shifting his organs inside his body. Or at least that's how I understood it.
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Thought the chapter was good. Overall Granolah got enough flashbacks to be somewhat likeable and it's interesting to hear a bit more about the Saiyans. Also more Vegeta action, which is good.
On Goku's powerup: Think it's more him getting used to Granolah's patterns than a new power. It's a common trope in fighting mangas either way.
On the Heeters: Wondering how they'll use the dragon balls, they'll likely summon/become the BBE of the arc. It can't really be freezer, can it?
Overall I think the arc isn't too shoddy, I like it more than the previous one so far. There are some minor annoyances, but I think the writing overall is decent, even if Granolah's powerup is cheesy.
On a side note I enjoy that Toriyama flattened the power curve a bit and made DBS more about mastering god ki which comes with certain fighting styles than a new Saiyan form every odd chapter.
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It's been genuinely interesting seeing the story follow up on Goku and Vegeta coming into their own powers, Goku developing the technique of the angels and Vegeta developing a GoD type power. They hinted at it the slightest bit in the anime, so I've been hoping that gets developed a bit. The narrative and the story are still a bit wishy washy, but I think the fights have been handled in a more compelling way.
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So Bardock is a good guy after all. Chapter was light on the action but did a good bit of filling in backstories for everyone involved.
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Honestly Bardock doing that seemed out of character for him. Not sure I like it.
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On October 22 2021 03:38 LegalLord wrote:
Honestly Bardock doing that seemed out of character for him. Not sure I like it.
Pretty sure they retconned him with the Broly movie. So if we follow that, I guess his change in nature happened sooner than expected.
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On October 22 2021 08:58 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2021 03:38 LegalLord wrote:
Honestly Bardock doing that seemed out of character for him. Not sure I like it. Pretty sure they retconned him with the Broly movie. So if we follow that, I guess his change in nature happened sooner than expected.
I might be forgetting something, but all I remember from that movie is the Dragon Ball Minus tie-ins: the wife, the retcon of how Goku comes to Earth, and a change to how Bardock comes to oppose Freeza.
My problem is more so that it doesn’t make sense within any depiction of Bardock to go out of his way to protect a survivor or two like that. In every depiction other than Episode of Bardock, he’s slightly sympathetic but also has no qualms with murdering people just for sport - even in this very episode. I could believe him turning a blind eye and letting the survivors go; helping them survive is definitely very far out of character though.
Even the Episode of Bardock version is more distant and only seems willing to help in light of just having being killed along with the rest of his race. Having not had that experience and acting suspiciously Goku-like in this episode just seems off to me.
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I think as the story goes, it stopped tracking a single thread a while back, so at this point, fuck it, if it's cool to have Bardock be a decent dude, whatever, do it and let's just move on. There's about 9,001 different interpretations about what the story is supposed to be like, so I'm not in any way attached to any particular canon.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
Goku gives Vegeta a chance to save the day, Vegeta decides to throw.
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The part about another wish to be the strongest definitely bothered me. As if the first use of wasn’t dumb. Sets a really bad precedent.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On November 26 2021 04:35 LegalLord wrote:
The part about another wish to be the strongest definitely bothered me. As if the first use of wasn’t dumb. Sets a really bad precedent.
Also why did becoming the strongest cause Gas to grow up?
Honestly someone should probably kill that Namekian. His wishing dragon has been used twice in this arc already and he only needs 2 DBs to be summoned.
Also I just realized both Granolah and Gas are canonically stronger than Jiren and Moro were and it doesn't feel right. They don't seem as intimidating, they're not as cool. I guess with Gas things could still change. But he's a pretty underwhelming main villain, he was a side character for most of the arc.
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Is Granolah stronger than Jiren? Jiren isn't part of the wish and he definitely was stronger than every person from Goku's universe at the time.
Imo the wish thing is less dumb than the first time, it was already established that it works, the Heeters know that this works and so it makes somewhat sense for the Heeters to do this.
Obviously you could argue that it's a box that never should have been opened in the first place, but the dragon balls could have solved probably every large plotline so far and mainly haven't because our maincast is a bunch of battle-addicts. In this regard the current scenario with 2 dragon balls on a small planet is almost a parody of the whole dragon ball concept, a "what if people actually used the damn dragon balls" scenario. We might just see the old Heeter run around the planet collecting DBs and buffing up his family, which would be really dumb but lowkey hilarious.
Also I'm more or less expecting Gas to die to Granolah here. If a Heeter becomes the centerpiece of the story it's gonna be the oldest Heeter. But this whole arc might just end up being the background introduction for Granolah.
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On November 26 2021 10:18 Archeon wrote:
Is Granolah stronger than Jiren? Jiren isn't part of the wish and he definitely was stronger than every person from Goku's universe at the time.
Imo the wish thing is less dumb than the first time, it was already established that it works, the Heeters know that this works and so it makes somewhat sense for the Heeters to do this.
Obviously you could argue that it's a box that never should have been opened in the first place, but the dragon balls could have solved probably every large plotline so far and mainly haven't because our maincast is a bunch of battle-addicts. In this regard the current scenario with 2 dragon balls on a small planet is almost a parody of the whole dragon ball concept, a "what if people actually used the damn dragon balls" scenario. We might just see the old Heeter run around the planet collecting DBs and buffing up his family, which would be really dumb but lowkey hilarious.
Also I'm more or less expecting Gas to die to Granolah here. If a Heeter becomes the centerpiece of the story it's gonna be the oldest Heeter. But this whole arc might just end up being the background introduction for Granolah.
Granolah was given 3 years to live in exchange to become the strongest. A HxH monkey's paw if you will. No clue what was done to Gas in exchange for becoming stronger than Granolah. Either way, I don't see either being around the series for much longer after this arc. And their strongest status is only contained to that universe. Jiren is one of the strongest in all of the universes that participated in the ToP.
The writing is sloppy for sure, but I don't think it really messes up what was done before. Moro was a stupid arc no matter how you slice it.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
Jiren (in the manga) was somewhat weaker than Ultra Instinct Goku but strong enough to hang on until Goku lost the transformation. Goku has much better control over the form now and can enter it fully at will. As long as that transformation lasts, he's stronger than Jiren was at the ToP. And Granolah's wish made him stronger than Goku.
His issue, as Vegeta also pointed out, is that while he's got amazing power, he's not actually good/experienced when it comes fighting.
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Agreed that Jiren was weaker than UI Goku. And if you can wish yourself to be more powerful than UI Goku, why stop there? Might as well wish to be stronger than the angels or the gods of destruction or even the god kid.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On November 27 2021 06:02 andrewlt wrote:
Agreed that Jiren was weaker than UI Goku. And if you can wish yourself to be more powerful than UI Goku, why stop there? Might as well wish to be stronger than the angels or the gods of destruction or even the god kid.
Well once upon a time when the DBs were used there was a condition that the wish couldn't exceed the power of the one who made the balls. So maybe this dragon can't make someone that strong. After all, he granted Granolah the power but also made it so he will only live for 3 more years.
Although then again Jiren was stronger than at least 1 God of Destruction. So who knows what this dragon can or can't do?
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