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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34498 Posts
On February 19 2013 13:05 Enzymatic wrote: I don't necessarily agree with your stance and opinion of Bloodstone on her, but none the less, this is a great guide. Could you explain your reasons for this? | ||
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mjae
Sweden79 Posts
Its a better build for ganking other lanes because DP is missing the mobility so it really helps getting high MS and at the same time you have the items to survive and maximize you damage. nice work DrPandaPhD | ||
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On February 19 2013 13:05 Enzymatic wrote: I don't necessarily agree with your stance and opinion of Bloodstone on her, but none the less, this is a great guide. Mind elaborating a bit? I feel like my points are pretty straight forward and want to hear what points you disagree with / other things I didn't consider. | ||
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sundelin
Norway4 Posts
Ur build works great every game. Thanks man, u made this hero enjoyable. | ||
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TNO_
14 Posts
I like Atos instead of Euls but that's my personal preference. | ||
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On March 13 2013 16:37 TNO_ wrote: BS is not awful on DP but she's so much better with Phase Drums and BS is kind of a snowbally item. I like Atos instead of Euls but that's my personal preference. I explained what kind of item BS is and why it doesn't syngergize with DP. You say yourself it's kind of a snowbally item and DP is not a snowballer. The only synergy it has is the increase in health really. Bloodstone is like going Aghanim's scepter for DP, the item itself is useless for her but it does give a fair amount of hp. If you want hp there are more cost-effective ways to go about it. Rod of Atos is good, but I don't think it fits this particular item build. Because you will end up with RoA + Euls + Sheepstick which is kinda overkill. Since you are also running at 500 movement speed you don't really need the slow to catch up. In this build I feel like Sheepstick does what RoA does but way better. RoA is a good item on DP nontheless but you would have to do a different item build. Still think Eul's is better than RoA though because being completely invulnerable in 2.5sec is amazing. No other item in the game can do that. It also has a nice CC + you can dodge stuns with it + all the good mana regen, I think Eul's is just way more flexible and all-around than RoA for a cheaper price. | ||
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iET
Norway40 Posts
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TNO_
14 Posts
On March 13 2013 20:26 DrPandaPhD wrote: I explained what kind of item BS is and why it doesn't syngergize with DP. You say yourself it's kind of a snowbally item and DP is not a snowballer. The only synergy it has is the increase in health really. Bloodstone is like going Aghanim's scepter for DP, the item itself is useless for her but it does give a fair amount of hp. If you want hp there are more cost-effective ways to go about it. Rod of Atos is good, but I don't think it fits this particular item build. Because you will end up with RoA + Euls + Sheepstick which is kinda overkill. Since you are also running at 500 movement speed you don't really need the slow to catch up. In this build I feel like Sheepstick does what RoA does but way better. RoA is a good item on DP nontheless but you would have to do a different item build. Still think Eul's is better than RoA though because being completely invulnerable in 2.5sec is amazing. No other item in the game can do that. It also has a nice CC + you can dodge stuns with it + all the good mana regen, I think Eul's is just way more flexible and all-around than RoA for a cheaper price. You don't have to explain everything all over again, there's no need to be defensive. I just mentioned Atos is good and by no means I was shooting down your build or whatever. Phase Drum Euls has always been a staple build on Krob. Given your reaction, I'd say beware not to be too rigid with your reasoning about builds and DOTA in general, say sometimes going BS instead of Drum Euls can win you the game 'cause it's a lot harder to deal with if you are ahead. No idea why you think DP can't snowball, she's quite strong early on and she peaks pretty early, and you seem to think BS only gives you HP which is horribly wrong regardless of how good / bad the item actually is. Atos' slow allows you to isolate and kill targets with your ultimate, land silences reliably, it gives you health which is less conditional than Eul's active. It's a more aggressive item for team-fighting, doing a direct comparison with Eul's is pointless because they are different items that exploit different aspects of the hero. Going for cost efficient stuff like Phase Drum is good but that doesn't mean you should stop being flexible with your builds and not seize the opportunity to go for bigger items. | ||
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xsevR
United States324 Posts
I don't think it's a particularly good item on her, but I think it has its place. | ||
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MSGHero
United States147 Posts
 + Show Spoiler + I also like not being affected by AM's mana burn and ult + kotl's mana leak once I get enough charges Deso + exorcism works well against base towers and rax if no one else buys one. Medallion for the same reason but for heroes | ||
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On March 15 2013 06:45 xsevR wrote: I think the heal of bloodstone is being a bit overlooked in this thread. The point of tanking up on Death Prophet is that she's a high priority target--the enemy team should try to focus you and you want to make it harder (or take longer) for them to do so. In this way, the heal on bloodstone is kind of effective--you'll punish them even more for focusing you if they do manage to kill you. Maybe not in an ideal composition, but if you have other high priority carries on your team, the heal from bloodstone could be very good. The other side is that if they aren't targeting you because of the bloodstone's hp/heal/lessened death penalty, you get to make use of the mana regen granted by it. I don't think it's a particularly good item on her, but I think it has its place. The heal is overlooked because I don't think dying should be a part of your strategy to heal your teammates. ("And then I transition into losing my whole base" - Day9. Similar story) Rather stay alive and help your carries kill than to die and then heal them. To the above poster Don't really understand your math there. Where does the 5.6k comes from? Euls gives as much mana regen as Bloodstone. Drums and Euls also makes you harder to kill than bloodstone if you use it wisely. Makes you a lot more evasive + a 2.5sec complete invulnerability (no other item has this function) + you can use Euls aggressive as a CC + you can now interrupt TPs with Euls. Anyway to explain why Death Prophet is not a snowballer: She needs a lot of items to survive, but she doesn't scale very well with items damagewise. She can only stay longer in fights to do more damage. Carries / heroes like Storm snowball harder because they scale very well with items. Their damage / survivability increases by a lot for every item they get. A snowballer doesn't scale off in the lategame as Krob does (because a lot of her dps comes from her ulti) Might be a vague explaination so here's another comparison. Every hero in the game can carry. If you give Crystal maider AC, Lifesteal, MKB, Crit, Boots and Heart she is going to do a lot of auto-attacking damage. But is the hero made to carry? That's the difference imo. Every hero in the game gets stronger with items ("snowballing"). But because Krob can't solo-kill very well she can't snowball as hard as the real "snowball-powerhouses" do. That's why I don't consider her a snowballer. Once again, you could snowball with Crystal maiden, but I still don't consider her a snowballer. | ||
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MSGHero
United States147 Posts
That explanation about snowballing makes more sense. | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On March 18 2013 07:40 MSGHero wrote: Maybe I misread it; I thought you said sheep + eul's = bloodstone as far as mana regen. I know where eul's is good, I personally don't like having it, though. That explanation about snowballing makes more sense. Yeah I think you misunderstood my point. My point was that one of the things that makes Bloodstone a good item is the constant increase in mana regen with more charges. Really good for heroes that can run out of mana even at the 90min mark (such as Tinker or Storm Spirit). But that whole strength is nullified by the fact that with Euls + Sheepstick it's literally impossible to run OOM. So you don't need the extra mana regen from the charges you would have gotten. Which means they are pointless. Wasn't a direct comparison between Euls + Sheep vs Bloodstone. Was more of a "this is what makes bloodstone good" and "unfortunaly it is completely wasted if you get Euls + Sheep" (which imo are two of the strongest items Krob can get). | ||
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
Eul's is such an awesome item, cyclone self for 2.5 sec of free ghosts hitting everyone. Or use the cyclone to float an enemy to stall the enemy and get spell cooldowns just in time for me to kill them. | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
it depends how you play DP i guess. these days there's a lot of players that abuse her speed and add to it with more manueverability items -- but i prefer to play her the olddd school way, as a mass-aggro drawing tank. This build has worked since.. at least 6.27b, and probably before. And this was before her ulti got super buffed and now has no damage cap. I also max her passive first. sounds retarded i know but with basilus and level 1 swarm (at reduced mana cost), you're not as dependent on mana items. And, since your swarm does such little damage, there's no issue with using it to help you last hit. this is how i build her: skill: 1. swarm 2. passive 3. passive 4. silence 5. passive 6. swarm 7 passive 8. swarm 9 swarm 10 ult 11 ul 12+ silence -> stats -> ult. item build: starting: basilus and tango first item: boots if farming bad, point booster if farming good first major item: soul booster in - between first and second items: strength treads, magic wand, maybe a bracer. second major item: situational, depends on matchup. If they're stun heavy, go bkb. if not, go blademail and either finish up your bloodstone or get a platemail. After these two major items it doesn't really matter what you go as long as you get the correct item to match the situation. I always go by the rule that what you buy doesn't matter as much as when you buy it and who you buy it against. in terms of playstyle, early game i use her swarm kinda like how zeus would use his arc lightning. I play passive and try to farm as much as possible early on -- of course, i am soloing. I believe DP is a horrible lane partner and believe the only way to play her well is to have her solo. I think it's really important to think of her ultimate as a super buffed up version of diabolic edict. That's my two cents  | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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lostsomething
2 Posts
I do kind of always find myself wanting to skip the phase boots and just go straight to boots of travel after my eul's and drums. It's only an 1100 gp difference between the two (not even counting any tp scrolls you hopefully won't have to buy) and with them and her passive DP's already faster than 90% of the rest of the cast anyways. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On April 18 2013 16:37 lostsomething wrote: Registered just to say how helpful I've found this guide. I do kind of always find myself wanting to skip the phase boots and just go straight to boots of travel after my eul's and drums. It's only an 1100 gp difference between the two (not even counting any tp scrolls you hopefully won't have to buy) and with them and her passive DP's already faster than 90% of the rest of the cast anyways. I find the early phase boots to be really useful for last hitting / harassing. You can deny a lot easier with that first blades of attack, and the extra speed boost to reach runes is also super useful | ||
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Viruuus
Germany451 Posts
This way i can do better in both last hitting / denying and rune control. | ||
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