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[Hero] Death Prophet

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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DrPandaPhD
Profile Joined November 2011
5188 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-22 13:41:01
February 04 2013 14:39 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Death Prophet

Krobelus was a Death Prophet-which is one way of saying she told fortunes for the wealthiest of those who wished to look beyond the veil. But after years of inquiring on behalf of others, she began to seek clues on her own fate. When death refused to yield its secrets, she tried to buy them with her life. But the ultimate price proved insufficient. Death disgorged her again and again, always holding back its deepest mysteries. Her jealousy grew. Others could die for eternity—why not she? Why must she alone be cast back on the shores of life with such tiresome regularity? Why was she not worthy of the one thing all other living creatures took for granted? Still, she would not be discouraged. Each time she returned from the grave, she brought a bit of death back with her. Wraiths followed her like fragments of her shattered soul; her blood grew thin and ectoplasmic; the feasting creatures of twilight took her for their kin.. She gave a little of her life with every demise, and it began to seem as if her end was in sight. With her dedication to death redoubled, and no client other than herself, Krobelus threw herself ever more fervently into death's abyss, intent on fulfilling the one prophecy that eluded her: That someday the Death Prophet would return from death no more.

For abilities, stats, and other information, visit this hero's Liquipedia page here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Death_Prophet



+ Show Spoiler [Guide by DrPandaPhD] +
Hello everyone. I am bringing you a guide to DP and a small guide to Bloodstone.

Krobelus is a very strong pusher that can carry. One of the few int heroes that have a good carry potential. She has almost unrivalled movement speed and a devastating midgame potential. You can almost not be juked as DP, because even if you lack vision, your ghosts are still attacking the target. She is probably the most difficult hero in the game to juke (apart from Night stalker with Agh scepter). Plus she just got a pretty big buff 6.79! ^_^

Pros:
+ Strong push
+ Strong early teamfight
+ Almost impossible to juke
+ Incredibly high movement speed
+ Carry-potential
+ Her silence is underrated as a crowd control. (6 seconds, huge range)

Cons:
- Can’t really win the midlane superhard. Can only go pretty even. She is no TA / OD with the insane lasthitting power. Nor does she has the killing-potential of QoP or Batrider. This is the biggest reason why she isn't picked competatively very often. Because right now it's a lot about just having very strong early game.
- Pretty easily gank-able pre level 6.

If you want to know her skills, go to liquipedia here:
The only thing I can say is that you can see how long duration is left on your ultimate at your buff bar.

Skillbuild:

The point is to get your nuke up as fast as possible. Your passive is extremely important for farming / fighting / survivability so max that after. Get one point in silence because it’s good to have something to interrupt channelling / to have a silence in general. But it doesn’t scale as well as the others so just keep it level 1 until Crypt Swarm and Witchcraft is maxed.

At level 7 it should look like this:
[image loading]
At level 11 it should look like this:
[image loading]

A different build and why I don't prefer it:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Some people like to build DP like this instead. Leaving Crypt Swarm at lvl 3 to have more mana-effective nukes. I don't like it because in early teamfights I don't want to rely being able to do 4-5 swarms. Usually the fights early game ends very quick so I don't have to be mana effective since at the point I am OOM the fight is over.

if you farm the easy camp with lvl 4 swarm with Phase + Bottle + Wand + Drums (the items you will have around the time you are level 9) you will have to swarm the camp once and then hit every creep once and they will die. With level 3 swarm you will have to hit every creep twice instead which wastes a lot of time. In general the level 3 swarm is more inefficent for clearing camps fast.

The skillbuild is good, I just prefer the first one because I farm the easy camp so often.


Items:

The entire item build up to Skadi is an extremely mainstreamed build I have made. Compare it to telling people to build Treads, battlefury, manta, heart, abyssal, bfly on Antimage. It might not the absolute best items in the game BUT you can always go that build in every game and have good success with it. There will be optimizations depending on the game but this is the best general guideline build I have made yet.

Starting items:
[image loading][image loading][image loading][image loading]

The general starting build for most mid heroes. It’s a good build which will get you a quick bottle + the 3 branches goes into a magic wand later.


The vs Shadowfiend build:
[image loading][image loading][image loading][image loading][image loading][image loading]

You need to play very aggressive vs a Shadowfiend early. And extra last hitting power is also important to beat a SF. Abuse the fact that SF is the weakest level 1 hero and punish it as much as possible.


The vs Batrider build:
[image loading][image loading][image loading][image loading][image loading]

Just get an early magic stick to counter the sticky napalm spam.


The midgame item build:

[image loading][image loading][image loading][image loading][image loading]


These are the items you want before 18min. If you can’t get it before 18min you need to practice being mid in general. You should have it by that time in at least 80-90% of your games. Unless you actually got ganked 2-3 times, then it’s fine. You will have a huge movement speed with these items, and Eul's gives you sick survivability. It will also help you spam spells a bit more. If you have really low health and you Eul's yourself when the ghosts are returning to you then you will get back on the ground with full hp. Eul's either forces your opponent to sit and wait for 3 seconds for you to return to the ground or change target. It is by far the best item on DP early game.

The followup:

[image loading]
After Eul's you should get just get a heart. Increases your health pool drastically. You want this item before 30minutes.


After that: [image loading]

You should always get a sheepstick at this point on DP. In my opinion, Sheepstick is one of the very few items in the game that can really turn the tide in a teamfight once you get it. The other few items are BKB on an important hero / Blink / Mek / Pipe. Sheepstick really is one of the best items in the game and there is no reason not to build one.

[image loading]
After Sheepstick you should get a Skadi imo. Skadi is amazing on DP. Gives her the stats she needs AND a very good anti-carry slow/attack speed slow that goes through BKB. This item destroys heroes like Naix and Sven but are generally good vs all carries.


At this point you are almost untouchable. So from here you basically just need to build a bit more dps’ish.
[image loading][image loading][image loading][image loading][image loading]
Aura items like AC is really good if your team doesn’t have a good AC carrier. Otherwise you can go full dps with items like MKB. Similar to how you build Storm Spirit / QoP late-game.


[image loading][image loading]
Also note that DP is a decent pipe/mek carrier, so if your team really needs one you should get one as well.

The very situational items on DP
[image loading][image loading]
I would only get BKB if our team already had a pipe and I still needed to get more magic protection. Pipe has a higher priority than BKB for DP. Because it scales well with her higher healthpool later into the game and you should always try to protect your supports whenever possible. So only get BKB vs very heavy-magic focused teams when your team already have a pipe carrier (such as a darkseer)

Ghost scepter is a very useful item vs the right lineups. It's a very cost-effective item, but it's not a slot-effective one. So if it is possible to try to avoid going Ghost Scepter you should always try to avoid it. But there will always be situations you are forced to go into it (like vs an anti-mage who has very high mobility).


The awful on Death Prophet items:

[image loading]
Vanguard is a very cost-ineffective heroes in general. But especially ranged heroes. There is way more efficient ways to get tanky. Don’t go this. If you really need to increase your health pool get a casual vitality booster and keep it until you build heart later. But remember, there are more ways to get tanky than just go full out hp. Eul's makes you harder to kill than Vanguard even though Eu'ls doesn't give a single point of hp.

[image loading]
A mini-guide to Bloodstone and why it is awful on DP:
+ Show Spoiler +

Ok so first of all: What makes Bloodstone good? It continuously increases your mana pool / mana regen. It helps you snowball. And it gives you a really fast respawn timer once you die.

Let's compare it to a hero which it is good on, Storm Spirit.

1. The main reason: Once you have Euls + Sheepstick, it’s impossible to go OOM (out of mana) as Death Prophet. So there is no point in building an item that increases your mana pool / mana regen even further because you can’t use it anyway. It’s very similar to how people don’t build Bloodstone on QoP, because after sheepstick it’s really difficult to run OOM. However, on a hero like Storm Spirit, even when Storm is 6slotted. He can still run out of mana. Which makes it a useful item for him.

2. Death Prophet is not a snowballer. She doesn’t pick people off the same way Storm Spirit does. Bloodstone is made for snowballers. It helps you win even more when you are already winning. It doesn’t help you get back into the game, quite the opposite. You need to stay alive and participate in a lot of kills for Bloodstone to be effective (which will not happen if your team is losing). Storm has a good escape mechanism which often let him stay alive in fights, so he can snowball.

3. Death Prophet really needs her ultimate to be effective in team fights. Even if she instantly respawn with a stacked bloodstone, she can’t accomplish much. There is almost no point for her in being alive if she doesn’t have her ultimate ready. Compare it to Storm Spirit who is ready to fight immedietly after he respawns again.

So there is nothing about bloodstone that has synergy with the hero except for the increase in health. But there are a lot more cost-efficient ways to get hp.


Your worst enemies:

[image loading][image loading][image loading]

Templar Assassin just hurts your early game too much with her lasthitting power if the player is good. Which makes you very easily gank-able post laning phase.

Anything that has a larger mana pool gets wrecked by Anti-Mage. But he’s not a super-hard counter because of how much mobility you have. He’s still annoying though. And Ghost Scepter is a really good item vs him.

Night Stalker’s first night kind of destroys Krobelus. She is as most vulnerable before Drums + Euls and Night Stalkers first night ruins her life. If you survive past the first night you don’t have much to fear after that though. He is even worse now after the patch (riot pls nerf).


Good teammates:
Anything with control really. That’s the only thing DP lacks. Almost all heroes work well with her so there are far too many to list.


How to play DP

Laning phase:

Pretty much like every other mid hero. Nuke the waves to last hit + harass your opponent. Try to push the lane into his tower before the rune spawns etc. Don’t think there is anything specific for DP in this phase. As a general mid tip I can give is that if you are radiant and have inferior rune control possibilities so you have to guess the rune. It’s better to nuke the wave twice quite early, get the xp, not the farm as much. Go and stack the easy camp at 53 and then pull the camp towards the bottom rune. That way you guess the rune but are still doing something efficient. If it’s not there you will have to bottle crow.

Midgame:

Try to farm up your core items. You would be surprised how difficult you become to kill once you have them. Push towers together with your team. Always be ready to teleport to fights. She is not a hard-carry (even though she can carry), make sure you contribute to your team.

Once you have your core + heart/skadi you are at your prime. You will be close to impossible to kill in teamfights if you position yourself well. Your spirits will do a ton of damage.


Lategame:

With Euls and Sheepstick you will never run OOM. Your focus should be to sheepstick their carry while killing the enemy supports as quickly as possible. Her lategame fighting power is still incredibly potent. Try to draw as much fire as possibly away from your own supports. Your carry can only carry if his supports are there to help him, so make sure they are.


Understanding Death Prophet's biggest weaknessess and why she isn't picked competitively.

The easiest way to deal with a Krobelus is to gank her early game. She is very vulnerable during this phase and one of the bigger reasons as to why she isn't picked competitively. With a bad start it's very hard to catch up on her because she needs to participate in a lot of the team fights / pushes but due to the lack of farm from the early game she is really squishy and easy to kill. Krobelus is also very vulnerable to split-pushing because if the enemy team just chooses to never fight her straight up for a long time and just delay the game through constant split-pushing she loses her power.

Even if Death Prophet doesn't get ganked early game she still loses most of the common mid matchups (batrider / TA etc). And even the ones she does fairly well in, she doesn't dominate them. Krobelus can only go even in the mid and trade farm with the opponent.

To pick Death Prophet you need a lineup built around her. You can put her on the safelane to make sure she gets farm. The team needs to have practiced with the hero a lot to get her in their comfort zone and understand how to play around her. She is in general considered a very risky pick. You want a lineup that is really scary to fight into at a tower so the enemies don't want to fight. But you also needs heroes that are good vs splitpushers, as it's her biggest weakness. I think Dragon Knight is a good hero to have on the team. Brings a bit of anti splitpush, has about the same peak times as DP and they both have spammable nukes for when the enemy team tries to push when your ults are down.

You generally want a team that aims to win around 25-35 minutes, or at least start to push the enemy tier 3s about this time. Heroes that push when their ults are up are the best heroes to have on your team, just don't get too many of the big ults. Never want to rely entirely on big ults. So a lineup like Timbersaw, DP, DK, Chen and Shadow Demon. So even though DP is a pusher you don't want to go full-out push strat because her ulti cooldown is too long for that.

Replays:
http://dotabuff.com/players/127861419/matches?hero=death-prophet&game_mode=&match_type=real

I will try to play her every now and then for you to have replays to download.


Other useful posts
Thread on discussing how to deal with DP as a drafter
리노크 👑
Chunhyang
Profile Joined December 2011
Bangladesh1389 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-04 14:55:07
February 04 2013 14:53 GMT
#2
I like the part on the bloodstone.

I think there are times when maxing out silence second is better.

But 4 second cd swarm is so goood
If you could reason with haters, there would be no haters. YGTMYFT
Teton
Profile Joined May 2010
France1656 Posts
February 04 2013 15:15 GMT
#3
best defiler eu
Arcadia92
Profile Joined October 2012
135 Posts
February 04 2013 15:16 GMT
#4
Nice guide

You could add Ghost scepter, core on her against certain line-ups.

Also for :53s without rune I'll always nuke the wave out and stack the big camp if possible. Might miss a couple of creeps but worth it.
aintz
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada5624 Posts
February 04 2013 15:55 GMT
#5
one of the worse heroes that can pub stomp because people are bad. a lot of people seem to want to hug the ghosts.
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28088 Posts
February 04 2013 16:05 GMT
#6
On February 05 2013 00:55 aintz wrote:
one of the worse heroes that can pub stomp because people are bad. a lot of people seem to want to hug the ghosts.

Yeah, I was playing DP the other day against a Bane, and during the teamfight he put me to sleep with my ult up. So basically I was sitting there taking no damage in the middle of the fight, while my ult was wrecking everyone else. Huge mistake by the bane sleeping a DP with ult up
Administrator
Darkren
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1841 Posts
February 04 2013 16:55 GMT
#7
I disagree with the heart and skadi options, those are good items, but normally u will never have time to farm for them.

Mek, blademail and ghost scepter are much better variants
"Yeah, I send (hopefully) helpful PM's quite frequently. You don't have to warn/ban everything" - KadaverBB
DrPandaPhD
Profile Joined November 2011
5188 Posts
February 04 2013 17:02 GMT
#8
On February 05 2013 01:55 Darkren wrote:
I disagree with the heart and skadi options, those are good items, but normally u will never have time to farm for them.

Mek, blademail and ghost scepter are much better variants

Uh, I have managed to get either Heart or Skadi in like every single pub / scrim / inhouse that lasted more than 30min unless we got uberstomped. You should have 500 gpm as DP, just like any other "2nd position" / solo mid hero.
리노크 👑
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 04 2013 17:05 GMT
#9
Blademail is awful in this build, since pre-heart/sheep/skadi you are relying on mobility (and using euls) for survivability and don't have the health pool to make blademail decent, and after those items you are semi-slot constrained and probably aren't the focus in teamfights anymore.

Ghost is OK, and has been mentioned, but it is highly situational. Great at the right time tho.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Mafe
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany5966 Posts
February 04 2013 17:27 GMT
#10
Nice guide. What about veil of discord, boots of travel and bkb?
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 04 2013 17:39 GMT
#11
On February 05 2013 02:27 Mafe wrote:
Nice guide. What about veil of discord

Insanely bad on this hero

On February 05 2013 02:27 Mafe wrote:
, boots of travel

Late game situational on DP same as every other hero

On February 05 2013 02:27 Mafe wrote:
and bkb?

DP doesn't mind being stunned so long as she has her ulti going. If they are pure magic damage you probably want a pipe over BKB. Situationally it is OK but rarely all that good.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
DrPandaPhD
Profile Joined November 2011
5188 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-04 17:41:48
February 04 2013 17:41 GMT
#12
On February 05 2013 02:27 Mafe wrote:
Nice guide. What about veil of discord, boots of travel and bkb?

Her ult is physical so veil of discord isn't very good on her. The armor is nice but 6armor for 2600gold is not really worth it.

BoTs are very good, just a later-game item. After you sold bottle/wand and still have no slots for tps I would get BoTs.

I would get BKB if I am facing a very magic-heavy team and you already have a good pipe-carrier on your team. If you can carry the pipe yourself then bkb isn't rly needed.

So BoTs I would get every lategame scenario
BKB in the right situations
VoDiscord never

Edit: ninja'd : (
리노크 👑
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-04 17:50:29
February 04 2013 17:43 GMT
#13
On February 05 2013 02:27 Mafe wrote:
Nice guide. What about veil of discord, boots of travel and bkb?

Sn0_Man already basically got it, but you shouldn't be the one getting veil as a 2nd position farmer (and your ulti is physical damage anyway), and you would prioritize big health items (bloodstone, heart) or pipe over BKB since those let you survive in much longer teamfights. With as much health as you should have, a few spells don't hurt, and stunning you doesn't do much since ghosts are still raping face.

I do think bloodstone is decent as a situational pick if you're farming exceptionally well. It has its uses in teamfights and is by far the easiest way to get insane mana regen for nuke spam if your team is performing well.
:)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 04 2013 17:50 GMT
#14
On February 05 2013 02:43 synapse wrote:
I do think bloodstone is decent as a situational pick if you're farming exceptionally well.


All his reasons for bloodstone being bad are valid, but I still think I go bloodstone just about every time on this hero. Mostly because I'm lazy and want mana-boots in lane for convenience. Yes, I know they don't come close to solving her mana problems. Bloodstone is such a nice easy tank+regen item though, and it builds from mana boots so nicely. For me, builds are pretty often about convenience and not that often about optimization XD.

For example, mid-late game on supports when I find myself with 1.5K gold or so, I usually just turn my bracer into drums instead of buying something useful (I should probably sell the bracer for ghost in most circumstances like that )
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Mafe
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany5966 Posts
February 04 2013 17:58 GMT
#15
Hm for whatever reason I thought her ult was magical damage. So veil is really bad I see.
Weasel-
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada1556 Posts
February 04 2013 18:12 GMT
#16
I would not always agree with getting ult before level 10, as level one exorcism is pretty weak, especially without many points in witchcraft.
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34490 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-04 18:25:08
February 04 2013 18:24 GMT
#17
On February 05 2013 03:12 Weasel- wrote:
I would not always agree with getting ult before level 10, as level one exorcism is pretty weak, especially without many points in witchcraft.

Even with 1 witchcraft, having that 1 point in exorcism is worth it. What else would you do with that point, get 2 levels in witchcraft? All that does is boost your nuke a little, which is nothing compared to your ult. Even with 1 point in exorcism/witchcraft you can still use it to win early teamfights/gank/counter gank/push towers etc.

As for the guide, looks good, should really include a bit on BKB though and when it is a good idea (I know you mention it in a reply later but should be in OP).

Ghost scepter and Shiva's for optional items imo ^_^
Moderator
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-04 19:39:00
February 04 2013 19:36 GMT
#18
I read advice previously that said to consider 3 in Nuke, 1 Silence, 2 WC, 1 Ult at 7 as an option. The reasoning was that the Damage/mana goes down from level 3->4 which makes it not that worth while compared to leveling WC if you don't have the mana items for it. The DPS of wave (if you cast multiple) is the same (or about the same depending on exorcism level) because of the -cooldown, but with WC you get the needed movement speed, silence boosts, and extra ghosts for exorcism. The recommendation was to grab level 4 nuke when you have the mana boosting items to support the extra mana cost. You'd also grab level 4 if you weren't planning on pushing or think that your fights are going to be too bursty to miss out on the extra damage.

Anyways, is that still reasonable advice?
Logo
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-04 19:46:06
February 04 2013 19:44 GMT
#19
Skill build should be:

Carrion Witch Carrion Witch Carrion Witch Witch Ulti Carrion Silence Ulti

Basically, get Carrion to level 3 asap, then max Witch first. Ulti at 8-9. Rarely would you need it before. You need high levels of Witch for your Ulti to be good. Silence whenever you need it. It's flexible.

Medallion is strong on her. Basically items should be tanking up, and transition to Hex.
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
February 04 2013 19:45 GMT
#20
On February 05 2013 04:36 Logo wrote:
I read advice previously that said to consider 3 in Nuke, 1 Silence, 2 WC, 1 Ult at 7 as an option. The reasoning was that the Damage/mana goes down from level 3->4 which makes it not that worth while compared to leveling WC if you don't have the mana items for it. The DPS of wave (if you cast multiple) is the same (or about the same depending on exorcism level) because of the -cooldown, but with WC you get the needed movement speed, silence boosts, and extra ghosts for exorcism. The recommendation was to grab level 4 nuke when you have the mana boosting items to support the extra mana cost. You'd also grab level 4 if you weren't planning on pushing or think that your fights are going to be too bursty to miss out on the extra damage.

Anyways, is that still reasonable advice?


It's the right build. In all cases, maxing Carrion first is stupid.
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