EPTTeam Liquid Discussion - Page 74
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Chrono + sunray means dead DK or more and they always had someone dead not allowing for teamfights to begin with. The chrono + healing ward combo is a stronger combo than healing ward + sunray-heal for me as well In a hypothetical scenario in which you only have 1 of the two I don't think chrono is worse than egg for defending rosh either. Far from it. And it screws over Liquids ability to teamfight so much more | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jPI0OOz.png) game 1 was a stomp with timber against str heroes game 2 reverse stomp with void + phx game 4 is just an outdraft with wk > LD now here at game 3 you have Phx/ OFFLANE void/ lion/ mid jugg/ safelane sven an offlane void would be less farmed than game 2's safelane void. once chrono pops, who would help him take down slar, dk or lycan? you could only take on the supports solo without the phoenix help. lion can finger sure but i doubt that's enough to take down dk. sven and jugg couldnt also get inside the chrono. Phoenix can really tear down Liquid's cores since the beam damages enemies for a percentage of their max hp. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
jerax had to hit his boulder properly to cancel the sunray or its really a -1 hero per team fight every chrono while using only 1 ult | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
You have this slardar who is supposed to blink-crush and blow up people and suddenly you only have 3 people who can actually deal damage, while the heal from the ward etc is still ongoing. Maybe they should have done that in combination with playing more counter-innitiate focus rather than their usual innitiate focus | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
here's the fight i was referring to Kuro shouldve swapped MC but he didnt. without the lion finger he wouldve survived against the void right click (still blew 2 ultimates). sven cant do anything until the chrono was over (given that he was still running in). if only kuro werent greedy and swapped mc out | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On June 13 2016 23:47 icystorage wrote: if you remove the phoenix, MC can blink-crush much more aggressively. anybody he initiates on just gets healed by sunray AND also damages slardar percentage-wise (WTF) here's the fight i was referring to https://youtu.be/ehgPtQ-2Mc4?t=44m46s Kuro shouldve swapped MC but he didnt. without the lion finger he wouldve survived against the void right click (still blew 2 ultimates). sven cant do anything until the chrono was over (given that he was still running in). if only kuro werent greedy and swapped mc out so you assume phoenix is the bigger problem because he's always there to counter-innitiate while void isn't ? Sure if that's the case phoenix is the bigger problem... | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
Read my post again. Newbee had the exact same lineup vs liquid and they lost. I. E. They lost with void Phoenix. Why? They're clearly not worse players | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
 I'd assume that after the Newbee loss OG looked at that game in particular and analyzed what was wrong with it on Newbee's side from a play-pov so maybe they really just got into it a lot more prepared about how to execute small issues that give them an edge. Maybe it just plain was a bad day for Liquid, idk | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
I really want to know why OG is able to take that game (game 2 and game 3) and if it is just pure outplay or outdraft. On paper the liquid draft cannot be out-drafted, at least no clear counter draft exist in my mind. | ||
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bluzi
4703 Posts
On June 14 2016 03:14 evanthebouncy! wrote: right i just want more discussion on this because it is such a curious thing for me. I have no idea how to plainly out-draft liquid and out-play them. The bueaty of the liquid draft is it is extremely difficult to outdraft it, you can use your superior mobility and control to still shred the enemy team which is in part why I think Kuro was so stubborn with this particular draft, because I believed that he belived it had very little counters if played right. I really want to know why OG is able to take that game (game 2 and game 3) and if it is just pure outplay or outdraft. On paper the liquid draft cannot be out-drafted, at least no clear counter draft exist in my mind. Come on , OG played better , there was no outdraft , sure when you win it means you land your combos (Which you guys analyse) and play to your lineup strength , but if liquid wouldve rolled OG you would be chanting it the other way , OG played better Dota , you give OG lineup to EG and they lose 3-0 to liquid , an outdraft means you are clearly ahead before the game starts and bar blunders you will win it as well , it was not the case here. | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On June 14 2016 03:14 evanthebouncy! wrote: right i just want more discussion on this because it is such a curious thing for me. I have no idea how to plainly out-draft liquid and out-play them. The bueaty of the liquid draft is it is extremely difficult to outdraft it, you can use your superior mobility and control to still shred the enemy team which is in part why I think Kuro was so stubborn with this particular draft, because I believed that he belived it had very little counters if played right. I really want to know why OG is able to take that game (game 2 and game 3) and if it is just pure outplay or outdraft. On paper the liquid draft cannot be out-drafted, at least no clear counter draft exist in my mind. As I said, I believe Fata got destroyed as DK versus Juggernaut both games. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17743 Posts
Anyway, what we can also learn from those games: picking Slardar into Sunray seems to be a default loss. | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
 GO liquid go! | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
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bluzi
4703 Posts
On June 14 2016 16:03 LemOn wrote: Esl is purely for hiding strats and experimenting witg new ones for TI. I Don't care one bit how we do but I sure want to see some fancy drafts from Liquid They will just play what they know and practiced for Manila , the Lycan`s the Slardars and the Disruptors and it will be more then enough to win a big chunk of money (which you as a fan might not care about but they do) , there is no hiding strats ppl need to get over it, if they didn't show it in Manila they don't have it nor would they create a new one in a week. tldr - no fancy drafts are incoming ...... | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
On June 14 2016 17:56 bluzi wrote: They will just play what they know and practiced for Manila , the Lycan`s the Slardars and the Disruptors and it will be more then enough to win a big chunk of money (which you as a fan might not care about but they do) , there is no hiding strats ppl need to get over it, if they didn't show it in Manila they don't have it nor would they create a new one in a week. tldr - no fancy drafts are incoming ...... They started pulling Riki only in very late stages when it mattered again, when Kuro has done it only once in grand finals previously. Oracle Bat counter we haven't seen. That clear pocket strat vs Newbee with Dusa Drow in LB decider. If you think Kuro will be dumb like TI5 Secret and his team isn't coming up and practising pocket strats and counters against teams that analyse their drafts they've shown at the Major as we speak then think again. And with ESL money being pretty much a joke compared to TI6 I'd be surprised if they see it much more than that - just practice. | ||
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wims80
1892 Posts
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