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On March 18 2019 01:44 Julmust wrote:
Yeah, please keep that in mind people. It's not like they didn't try. Please don't be too harsh on them.
I would never go as far as suggesting that they didn't try or anything, that would be very disrespectful. They have bombed out of tournaments before, they have failed to qualify for majors - shit happens. The result is not the big deal for me.
It was just sad to see because something was clearly off this tournament and the look on their faces was very worrying. That felt the worst for me actually.
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On March 18 2019 01:44 Julmust wrote:
Yeah, please keep that in mind people. It's not like they didn't try. Please don't be too harsh on them.
I have been lucky enough to interact with the team a lot lately and this won't be something they just shake off. After their elimination from Birmingham in 2017, they came up for a press round after losing to Secret. Now I won't name names but at least one of the players was absolutely crushed. Looked like he was on the verge of crying. That's how hard this team takes losses. That's how invested they are.
I understand you're all disappointed but please don't imply that they're not trying. Because if it's one thing I know for sure is that they are. We know we have the individual skill, it's about making slight adjustments. We'll be back. There are still two majors left and the team will surely use this for fuel!
I agree with you that Back then they were very very very motivated. And it is absolutely true that it is very hard to maintain taht for 3 years after wining so many Championships and TI.
They like any other team had ups and downs, but this was something else - i've never seen Liquid outplayed in all of their games. They finished 2-5, and at least two of them played bad in 6 of them. That was never ever the case.
Before even when draftin bad, and lose 2 or even 3 of their lanes they had a timing in mind and they exploit it and at least fight for the game. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.
I will quote hunter_x again - it was Embarassing. Whatever causes this, i hope they can fix it. Next tournament is very close we will see how it goes.
Maybe we are witnessing an end of an era... i hope it is not the case, but everything that has a begining has an end.
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On March 18 2019 01:44 Julmust wrote:
Yeah, please keep that in mind people. It's not like they didn't try. Please don't be too harsh on them.
I have been lucky enough to interact with the team a lot lately and this won't be something they just shake off. After their elimination from Birmingham in 2017, they came up for a press round after losing to Secret. Now I won't name names but at least one of the players was absolutely crushed. Looked like he was on the verge of crying. That's how hard this team takes losses. That's how invested they are.
I understand you're all disappointed but please don't imply that they're not trying. Because if it's one thing I know for sure is that they are. We know we have the individual skill, it's about making slight adjustments. We'll be back. There are still two majors left and the team will surely use this for fuel!
You are right for sure, and we shouldn't forget, that loses like these are the hardest for the player's themselves, even if it's tough for us fans too. I think most people, me included, are just very dissapointed of this performance, after we had to wait so long to see all the boys at a major again. Of course we still love and support them, and i am sure they will come back strenger again;)
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Netherlands6190 Posts
On March 18 2019 02:52 clusen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2019 01:44 Julmust wrote:
Yeah, please keep that in mind people. It's not like they didn't try. Please don't be too harsh on them.
I would never go as far as suggesting that they didn't try or anything, that would be very disrespectful. They have bombed out of tournaments before, they have failed to qualify for majors - shit happens. The result is not the big deal for me. It was just sad to see because something was clearly off this tournament and the look on their faces was very worrying. That felt the worst for me actually.
Me too, the sadness in them was just heart breaking.
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I might offend some people here but maybe its time for a roster change at the end of the season.
Before you get your pitchforks and burning sticks hear me out, i love Liquid and this 5Jungz stack more then any other esports team and i think they might be the best team ever by breaking the TI winner curse and beeing at the top for almost 3 years.
But this season they just feel... uninspired. The drafts are hit and miss, Miracle- and GH are inconsitant at least to my eye and MC went from a god while playing with NIP at KL major to losing lanes he should do ok in.
Dont get me wrong this squad can still win the next majors and TI, they are that good and Birmingham proved that they can bounce back.
But every legendary team has an expiration date and i rather see them go out swinging then become a sorry shadow of themself like Navi or Alliance.
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A sad day for me, and therefore of course, the world.
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Although I do not hope for a roster change, but same may happen sooner or later when Matu has to carry out his mandatory military service. So far he has been released from it due to his eSports career.
GH and Kuro are currently not able to secure the lanes for their cores. They are running from lane to lane but not with the same impact as earlier. As somebody said it already: like headless chicken. On top of same the drafts are somehow lackluster and without any real surprise, just plain standard and/or worse.
Matu is currently the most consistent on the team. MC is being sacrificed to hard and nearly always has to catch up after the laning stage, so that he cannot create the space which is required for Miracle to farm up. They rely to much on Miracle as the saving grace and other Teams noticed same and adjust their tactics.
I hope they find their mojo and take this tourney as a learning lesson.
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I don't think Liquid's problem is that serious overall. These kinds of things happen to every team who plays together as long as they do. Liquid has had plenty of horrible tournaments such as this and they bounced back and later won TI or a Super Major. It's just things fall apart sometimes and it happens at the worst possible moments. And for Liquid, it just keeps happening. Playing with a stand in one Major and completely failing at the other. They've won two LANs this season, not the biggest achievements imo, but they're definitely something and they suggest that Liquid just had a bad tournament. Hell, they did well at the first Major considering they had a Chinese stand in.
It's just a shitty moment and time for Liquid and the fans. We need a few more terrible results before we determine if this is some serious issue that requires a roster change or not.
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@hunter_x
@juuto
@NInoff
kuroky and rmn and fata play autochess at 3am
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After looking at our captain Kuroky face during the draft vs Chaos. He seem don't feel like to play at all. The draft a bit odd. The chemistry just a bit off for me. Hope they can cut loss with negative feeling and come back strong next event.
Let's go Liquid!!!
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I think everyone that likes TL feels let down. Situations like that though can happen, what surprises me is that it comes after a bootcamp. From my point of view, the issue lies in core strategies and we should try to approach the game differently, for example it seems investing in early aggression strategies works better now so no need for hard carries and so on.
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Now when i slept over it, it hurts a little bit less. Auto Chess or whatever, they have to get over it, find the thirst that drives them again, and move on!
Apart from good teams losing left, right and center, do you guys think there is something off with this event? Hell, the whole DPC year so far seems a bit off to me. Maybe Valve cut most of the funding? Im talking stages, talent, production, in all events - they seem a bit unproffesional, compared to what we had previous years, and especially last year? Top casters and analysts are not being hired. We get like 1 team of top Caster and Analyst and the rest are just guys that live in the area.
With all due respect to Slacks and Bulldog, i just can't take them serous, epecially when i hear Slacks screaming in game i just mute my PC. These guys, are good and fun, but IMO Bulldog is better on the panel, and Slacks on stage and with interviews.
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On March 18 2019 19:51 NInoff wrote:
Apart from good teams losing left, right and center, do you guys think there is something off with this event? Hell, the whole DPC year so far seems a bit off to me. Maybe Valve cut most of the funding? Im talking stages, talent, production, in all events - they seem a bit unproffesional, compared to what we had previous years, and especially last year? Top casters and analysts are not being hired. We get like 1 team of top Caster and Analyst and the rest are just guys that live in the area.
With all due respect to Slacks and Bulldog, i just can't take them serous, epecially when i hear Slacks screaming in game i just mute my PC. These guys, are good and fun, but IMO Bulldog is better on the panel, and Slacks on stage and with interviews.
I wouldn't say something's off with DreamLeague. They've embraced their meme-status for quite a while now, which means the broadcast won't be as polished. I honestly think it's refreshing when compared to ESL events. Don't get me wrong, I love both events and I think both are needed. Now a big reason why you might think that the overall quality has gone down is due to ESL not hosting a major this year, which is a shame tbh.
That being said, I think you have a point with the production budget seemingly going down. And that's just natural. Last year was the first "free for all" major system. So TO's threw a lot of money at everyone and everything to get the best talent at their event, no matter if it was a minor or a major. Just getting a Valve event would bring in the money, or so they thought. I think a lot of events last year ended in the red or, at least, didn't make the big profit TO's thought it would. So they have to cut back on costs a bit.
I could get in on why that is, and how Valve's handling of the ESL Facebook deal has a lot to do with it, but I'm not looking to write a full article here.
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Good luck on Disney Major qualifier.
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Gl bouncing back, looks like the next weeks will be a lot of work. Hope they find their spark again.
@tournaments: Kinda agreed that the caster quality isn't really up to standard. Imo dreamleague also didn't invite the right people, would have preferred to see Grand or Kips in the studio and not as outside casters.
Currently it's mostly Bulldog, Sheever, Slacks, Moxxi and Lizzard and I don't think Moxxi and Lizzard bring a lot to the table outside of not being particularly unpleasant. Tbf Lizzard sometimes says something analytical, but lacks the depth Kips or Grand could have brought. Moxxi and Slacks also are fun, but each take a lot of speechtime for nonsense, which leaves very little time for actual game talk.
So outside of the Lizzard Bulldog cast which I enjoyed it's too heavy on the silliness imo. Dreamleague has embraced the Memeleague for a while, but they always had some analytical counterweight (Kyle/Kips/Grand mostly). Atm Sheever trying to get some input from her casters on drafts mostly gets answered with "I don't like Omniknight, that hero sucks" or "Nisha's LD would have been terrible".
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I actually really disliked the Moxxi + Bulldogg cast.
There were several moments, where she just kept shouting obvious crap into her mic.... "AAAAAND he's using blink - BLACKHOLE".... while Bulldogg was trying to say something, which I can only assume was at least slightly more insightful than that. This went on for like a 3 minute fight. You could hear Bulldogg trying to say something, and she just never stopped stating the obvious.
Kind of OD Pixel style, when he's paired with Fogged or so - never shutting up ever, while the other person, who is clearly much more knowledgeable, tries to get in a word every 10 minutes - failing miserably, because their partner has to state the most obvious things going on.
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Chaos beating VP with the same strat they beat us with actually makes me feel a bit better about our loss. Makes the narrative more about Chaos figuring out a really good strat than us playing really bad.
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Matu casting VP vs. EG right now!
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Netherlands6190 Posts
It made me so happy  He seems to have cheered up a lot.
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Lane assignment and Skill builds were all wrong on Liquid side during their match against Chaos. I dont get why do you lane Ember against Oracle and then build ember without his E.
I am just a pub scrub but the way i see it they should have trilane ember against Ursa while GH either harass or farming jungle with kuroky.
Ember was practically useless throughout the game. Prop to Oracle to always purge ember.
Anyway, I guess HFN shouldnt be given Ursa after we can see what can he do in a match agaisnt VP.
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EPT
