EPT
.The Tanky DPS 1H+Shield Barbarian - Page 5
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Serpico
4285 Posts
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TheRealArtemis
687 Posts
On September 07 2012 01:15 Hairy wrote: Suit yourself. The new heal from Rend is strong, and I just didn't find it necessary to use any LOH when I was experimenting with tanky builds. Perhaps that's due to the fact that I have better gear, which means I take less damage and rend heals me for more? Meh. maybe I havent tested Rend with 'blood lust' enough on act 3, but I can do just fine without ekstra hp regen. But it is a nice replancement for loh. Just think that a nice high loh is better, then what Rend BL can offer. Besides, I cant say no to the ekstra dmg the +900% lacerate gives. Mobs just melt so much faster. Espacially ranged. dont have to chase them so often. | ||
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akatama
Romania982 Posts
my barb Any cheap stuff I might have overlooked? I believe the weapon and helm should be my next pieces to improve, but is there something I'm missing? Also in regards to a socket on the helm, do you think I could drop a exp or mf gem in there, or should I go for a amethyst for the % life? | ||
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vol_
Australia1608 Posts
More strength and AR with less vit might be better bang for your buck shoulder wise. The gem just depends on what you need. If you dont need the health then XP gem and a spare helm with natural mf + socketed mf for swapping is the best I guess. | ||
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icyF
Finland305 Posts
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pedduck
Thailand468 Posts
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Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
On September 17 2012 18:28 pedduck wrote: 1.0.5 seems like an end to this build. so sad. Everybody else will get 25% damage reduction next patch while we get almost nothing. Um, what? They are reducing damage to such a huge degree on inferno so that even if you DON'T take War Cry, you will take less damage than before. This means you can keep War Cry for even less damage taken, or (if you can comfortably do inferno now) change that skill for an offensive skill to speed up your farming. | ||
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vol_
Australia1608 Posts
It depends on what the new players 8 is like I guess.I just switched to WW spending 2 mil to try it out and I dont think I can go back. Dieing a lot learning the build thou, havent died in about a month in tank mode  | ||
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TheRealArtemis
687 Posts
On September 17 2012 18:59 vol_ wrote: I guess he means with such low incoming damage whats the point of tanking It depends on what the new players 8 is like I guess.I just switched to WW spending 2 mil to try it out and I dont think I can go back. Dieing a lot learning the build thou, havent died in about a month in tank mode Yes, I wont switch style. Even if normal inferno will be alot easier and parties wont have any use of a "tank/war cry" anymore. But I have high hopes that the "8 player" command will make inferno terribly hard, and all the DH and WW barbs actually need a tank again. ^^ Perhaps, it will be so hard that we can atually sell our service to people =P | ||
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
I hope that your questions have been answered in the mean time by the many other quality posters in this and the Barb thread, but if you are still looking for an answer for a previously asked question, feel free to ask again  On WW/Sprint versus Tanky builds Regarding the state of the game in 1.04, once you have a budget where you can afford to go WW/Sprint, there is no question that the Tanky Barb is not as efficient. WW/Sprint simply the best for farming paragon levels, at least in patch 1.04. Patch 1.05 will make it even less necessary to be Tanky. It does mean, though, that you can still go Sword and Board and drop War Cry for another offensive skill or Sprint (Marathon). However, keep in mind that there will be PvP in some point in the future. In PvP the WW/Sprint build will not be viable because of how fury hungry the build is. Also, players are smart enough to avoid/run away from Sprint tornadoes. We will have to see whether 2H, DW or 1H+Shield builds fare better in PvP. I think that the issue for melee characters will be whether you can stay alive long enough before those ranged characters run out of cooldowns/resources (ie discipline) to avoid your attacks. Once they have depleted their mobility/escape skills, then we have free reign to smack them down, and they will go down quickly unless they go tanky (in which case they will do no damage to Tanky Barbs at all). For this reason, I think that Shield users will fare very well. Given the above, I think that having 50% block chance with high damage reduction, negating 50% of incoming damage, will outweigh the 20-40% DPS increase from DW or 2H. In addition, we have yet to see what these patch 1.05 Infernal Machine and Monster Power features will bring to the game, but I think that there may be some use for Tanky Barbs for at least Infernal Machine fights, which sound more like uber single boss fights than elite pack/monster swarm fights (in which case the WW/Sprint build might not perform so well). If the Monster Power feature increases monster damage as well as HP, then the Tanky Barb might have some use once again for farming paragon levels or gear, depending on how much more efficient it is to farm at high Monster Power. Therefore, even if you want to switch to WW/Sprint for farming paragon levels (which I'm now trying out currently myself), I suggest that it is worth holding onto your shield and/or gearing with the switch back to tanky in mind. For example, Shoulders, Chest, Belt, Pants and Boots slots don't offer any IAS/Crit, so these slots can be the same for Tanky and WW/Sprint builds. Look to making those slots really good, with high amounts of RES/STR/VIT/%Life (of course 12%MS for boots). That means they will be useful for Tanky builds, but also provide you the good STR and EHP foundation so that you can focus more on IAS/Crit on your other slots for WW/Sprint farming. On Tanky Barb Skill Builds As for good Tanky Barb builds, there are a lot of viable options now. 1. Bash (Onslaught) is better than Frenzy now if you're running with Rend, which I think everyone should be running with, except for those at the very early stages of gearing for Inferno. It has better single target DPS, and the fury generation is better. Some people like the Punish rune. I haven't tested it extensively or done the maths, but I find the knock back too irritating, which is why I haven't given it a serious try yet. 2. For farming, if you are strong enough you can try to squeeze in Sprint (Marathon). I can't remember who was the first person to suggest it. I think Big G runs it though. I tried it a little myself and I like it. Props to whoever suggested it. 3. Rend (Bloodlust) is awesome. Try to work it in your build. On Page 3 I broke down my first impressions on Rend when patch 1.04 went live. I still think the analysis holds. a. If you are struggling to tank with low EHP, but have moderate or better DPS. You can run Bash, Revenge, Rend (Bloodlust), [Defensive Skill], War Cry, WotB. This gives you super sustain, and still a defensive skill for an escape. b. If you're tanking easily with high EHP, but DPS is low and need faster kill potential. You can run Bash, Revenge, Rend (Lacerate), Battle Rage or [Defensive Skill], War Cry, WotB. With low DPS, Rend (Bloodlust) won't give you much sustain, but Revenge scales well with EHP. In this case, Revenge will continue to perform adequately for sustain, while Rend won't, so we keep Revenge for sustain while using Rend (Lacerate) for damage. c. If you're tanking easily with moderate/high EHP, and have moderate to high DPS. You can run Bash, Rend (Bloodlust), Battle Rage, [Defensive Skill], War Cry, WotB. With high DPS, Bloodlust provides sustain that is comparable with Revenge's sustain. Since you are tanking easily, you can replace Revenge with Rend so that you have more offensive power. The rest of the skills remain balanced. d. If you never die with very high EHP, and moderate to high DPS. You can run Bash, Rend (Bloodlust), Sprint (Marathon), Battle Rage, War Cry, WotB. I think this is the best for farming if you are strong enough to tank with only Rend sustain, War Cry and WotB. You have no escapes, so you need to be strong before you choose to do this. If you die occasionally, then it negates the added farming efficiency given by Sprint. This is the build I now run when I go Tanky Barb. 4. Dropping War Cry? I don't think it's a good idea. Not yet anyway. It is still so amazingly cost effective for one skill slot. You are better off changing your gloves or other gear slots for more damage stats or something like that, than dropping War Cry. Patch 1.05 will probably change this though. Let me know what you guys think | ||
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TheRealArtemis
687 Posts
After the 1.04 patch I switched everything around. No more vit gems, 2 defensive passives for offensives. Give a ton more dmg now. ^^ and still doesnt die =P Yes, Rend is a monster. I pretty much one shot everything (within the 5 sec) with rend, lacerate rune. It helps alot clearing out ranged mobs, but also just huge groups of monster in general. And in my case, since I run with frenzy, I dont really have any AOE dmg dealer, besides revenge, so I think it fits 1h board pretty well. On an unreleated note. Seeing how war cry gets "nerfed", is it better to aim for more all res, seing how its harder to get closer to 1k. Im thinking in relation to the "player 8 command". Its really hard to predict how hard its going to be. I think in terms of farming regular act 3 inferno, it doesnt matter. 6-8 unbuffed is probably enough. but if the monster dmg scales insane/arcane etc, it might be "wise" to invest some money on as much all res as possible? Im thinking right now to buy either some IK boots, or some Ice climbers. Cant really decide which to buy. The IK will give me alot more movement speed, (24 total) and additional 60 all res due to set bonus, Making my all res 800 unbuffed. but the Ice climbers will give me alot more armor/strength, plus alot more hp. the % life alone will give me 10k+ hp. But I dont know if the 60 res all will be better, because then I can dump the war cry/impunity for something else. I dont know if I overthink this too much, or too little. the patch is probably a long time away. http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Artemis-2465/hero/876094 I dont even know what im doing with this char anymore lol. nr 40 EU EHP >__> But that without the puzzle ring. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
If there were something like that, I can see this build to be one of the most popular partners to play with for the more fragile classes. | ||
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kazansky
Germany931 Posts
I have a very special question regarding my gear, as I play selffound. The only way apart from luck to improve my gear would be crafting. I own a decent share of 6 stat recipes but I'm not sure which item I should try to improve at first by crafting, or if it is possible at all. (Yeah, I know, gems need upgrades too) http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Kazansky-2804/hero/1775591 I can tank and farm act3 properly, even more with party, so he's not as helpless as he might look to people that buy gear, but I would still be thankful for some insight. | ||
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Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
On September 18 2012 00:57 JustPassingBy wrote: I think what the tank build of a barbarian really lacks is the ability to draw all aggro on himself. If there were something like that, I can see this build to be one of the most popular partners to play with for the more fragile classes. Threatening Shout - Demoralize? It's not exactly an aggro ability like you might find in WoW, but better than nothing. | ||
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
On September 18 2012 00:57 JustPassingBy wrote: I think what the tank build of a barbarian really lacks is the ability to draw all aggro on himself. If there were something like that, I can see this build to be one of the most popular partners to play with for the more fragile classes. Ground stomp - wrenching smash? I played a lot with GS a the beginning, but it was so heavily nerfed against elites that it became useless very fast (it was also detrimental with revenge). With the incoming CC changes, ground stomp and rend together should be very very good for a tanky barb. Anyway, what I personally need is a replacement for WotB. As dps rises (I'm at 82k with mf gear, otherwise near 100k) even the worst elites aren't really a problem, so I find myself saving indefinetely WotB as an emergency button, for like chain-freeze or double pack or whatever. Eh, sometimes that emergency never comes. I guess I'll wait patch 1.0.5 to see if "players 8" brings in some real difficulty. @ Trang: yeah it was me! | ||
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
Crafting a new helmet and putting strength gems in the chest will probably get you some way too kazansky. | ||
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
As for the boots, I would just work out what the EHP would be with each --- if you can work out what it would be with the War Cry nerf. I imagine the Ice Climbers will give more EHP. You would then consider if the EHP deficit is made up for by IK's 12%MS and higher RES, which is a little more valuable for you because you run with LoH. Personally, I am willing to sacrifice some EHP for 12%MS. Kazansky, damn man, props to you for playing without the AH. I can't imagine how much harder it would be to gear up. I'm not too sure which slots will be the best to craft for. The thing about crafting is it's very 'spiky' in terms of luck. Most of it will be trash compared to what you have, so I would think that crafting involves just as much luck as farming loot. Basically you're at the point where I start to talk about incremental increases. Your gear has the stats/affixes there, they just need to incrementally get bigger values. Most of your gear is at the point where upgrades are costing more than 1 mill a piece on AH, and at that point it will just be luck and persistence to find better gear if you aren't using the AH. If you feel you'd like a bit more EHP, your weakest slot is your helm, and maybe a shield with higher block chance could. But I imagine that crafting a shield with block chance as well as good affixes will require a lot of luck. It's not so easy to get a Helm with STR/VIT/RES/Socket all in one too. If you feel you can drop some EHP for damage, then you can gun for more STR on your Shoulders, and try to craft offensive affixes on your Gloves (IAS/CC/CD). Not sure what else to say, since I haven't tried gearing without the AH before. | ||
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
Big G, regarding WotB, yeah I have also sometimes felt like I might try dropping WotB. If you aren't already using Rend or Marauder's Rage it could be worth taking out WotB for the extra damage. When I hit 79K DPS I also felt like I didn't use WotB often. However, I'm also at the point where I don't need a defensive skill like Furious Charge/Leap any more. So even with WotB I can still fit in Bash, Rend, Sprint, Battle Rage, War Cry. Maybe I could bring back Revenge for extra AoE damage, and for the sustain so that I can run Rend with Lacerate or Ravage for even more damage. Still, one of the things that annoys me most is getting CC chained by a Frozen/Nightmarish elite pack, and even though I don't need WotB to survive, it really is just a luxury in these cases so that I don't have to deal with it. Maybe try running with Bash, Rend (Lacerate/Ravage), Revenge, Sprint, Battle Rage, War Cry? | ||
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icyF
Finland305 Posts
I tried out Ancient Spear the other day and found it pretty useful against those pesky kiting mobs. | ||
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Zrana
United Kingdom698 Posts
I know this is a 1h+shield thread but i wanted to add my 2 cents about how nice stuns are (even atm before buffs) in groups. Whats nice about them is even though they don't last very long, seconds really do count in a decent party, and additionally when a mob is stunned it re-chooses it's target after the stun wears off. As far as i can tell mobs aggro the first player they see and then have a %chance to change target if damage is being done to them from another source. This means you can run or leap into a group, rend, cleave, then groundstomp when they start to switch targets (buying a lot more time for the ranged) and then simply keep rend up, alternate leap and stomp for stuns and cleave when everything else is on cd. This is imo the most effective way of controlling mobs, staying alive and dealing damage to them in a group situation that i've yet found. | ||
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