EPTI am getting pretty tired of sprinting, though... perhaps a flashy 2H build using one of these fancy new patch weapons? :D
The Tanky DPS 1H+Shield Barbarian - Page 3
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Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
I am getting pretty tired of sprinting, though... perhaps a flashy 2H build using one of these fancy new patch weapons? :D | ||
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
1. Sustain functions similarly to Revenge --- It is good sustain provided you have sufficient DPS. Sustain is proportional to number of mobs around you. In this sense it benefits and suffers from the same characteristics as Revenge --- ie makes you invincible when swarmed by many enemies, but less effective sustain against few enemies. There are some differences between Rend and Revenge which I cover below though ... 2. Rend's sustain scales off your DPS and Damage Reduction (Armor/RES), but not your HP or EHP --- maybe it is a better pick for people with high DPS and RES, but average HP. Probably best just to give it a shot and see what works better for you. 3. Rend sustains over time rather than immediately --- This means that you can regen life while you are kiting an Arcane effect. Pretty useful. However, the downside is that unlike Revenge, if for some reason you take a burst of damage, then you cannot get a burst of HP back as quickly. This mean's that if you do not keep your Rend constantly up, (eg you forget to cast Rend, or you get CC'd by Frozen or Nightmarish or something) then you might be putting yourself in danger if you are not sufficiently tanky to survive until Rend brings you up again. Meanwhile, in such situations, a cast of Revenge can often quickly bring you up to full again. 4. Rend depends on fury rather than chance procs --- Rend's frequency of use depends on you attacking, rather than you being attacked. The rate at which you are generating fury is generally constant so long as you can attack continuously, and it's usually enough to spam Rend. Meanwhile, for Revenge there are more factors that might affect how often you get hit, the main one being the presence of other party members. In a 4 man party you don't get hit very much, which means that Rend could be a more reliable than Revenge in these cases. There is a downside to Rend though, in that at the start of fights or if you are kiting a lot, you may be lacking fury. In these cases, you may struggle to get the fury up and start to gradually sustain back if you are against enemies that deal bursty damage. Meanwhile with Revenge, you simply run in, cast Revenge, and continue attacking as per usual. 5. Where to fit Rend in your build? Obviously you need a primary skill (haven't tried Bash/Cleave enough to know if they are worth taking instead of Frenzy) and War Cry, and I don't see why anyone would want to drop WotB once they have it. That leaves Revenge, Battle Rage, and your defensive skill --- in my case Furious Charge. The first combination I tried was dropping Furious Charge. My sustain was monstrously easy with Revenge and Rend both. However, whenever I was completely surrounded, and had 3 arcane beams and desecration hitting me, I had no mobility to get out. Without the EHP I had, I wouldn't have stayed alive, and sometimes I did in fact die carelessly. The thing is that sustain was easy with Revenge alone already in the majority of cases, and it was only in tough situations like the one I just described where I needed Furious Charge to reposition. In this sense, Rend in place of Furious Charge made the easy stuff easier, but the harder stuff harder. The second combination I tried was replacing Battle Rage for Rend. Survivability was off the hook. I had both Revenge/Rend as well as Furious Charge for mobility. As for damage, the jury is still out on that one, I couldn't work out if it was increasing my damage output by much or not because I had a full party of 4. I get the feeling the damage is probably a bit higher. Because of the double sustain skill set I could probably try dropping Tough as Nails for Weapons Master as well to further increase damage. Will have to try it out some more. The third possibility is replacing Revenge with Rend. This is to maximise damage by keeping Battle Rage, meanwhile keeping Furious Charge for mobility. Revenge and Rend both serve very similar roles. In terms of sustain, I think the circumstances will dictate whether Rend over Revenge increases or decreases your sustain potential. My gut feeling is that solo, Revenge is a safer sustain option, but Rend will do a bit more damage. Like I said, I haven't really been able to play solo much to test this out though. Also, Rend will only be good sustain if you have good DPS, like I have. I would think that if you are still sub 20K DPS, Revenge is without a doubt more reliable sustain. As alluded to above, in a party Rend might be more reliable if your DPS is decent. Again the point at which one becomes better than the other will probably depend on a lot of things: your DPS, your HP, your RES/Armor, solo/party play. Best thing is to try it out. 6. Rend crits and refreshing Rend --- here's a quote of a post I made half an hour ago in the Barb thread about refreshing Rend and Rend crits: On August 23 2012 10:31 Trang wrote: If you watch Rend closely, you will notice that individual ticks don't crit. What happens is that at the moment when you cast Rend and it hits a target, the game will then determine if there is a crit for each target. If you don't crit, the ticks are as per usual. If you do crit, then you will notice all the ticks will be higher than usual. During all this no yellow numbers appear. This means that in a normal fight when you are dishing out other damage too then it is hard to tell if you scored a crit and on which monsters. The thing with refreshing Rend is that you if you crit, you can overwrite a crit by refreshing Rend with a non-crit Rend, effectively reducing your damage output. While this might sound bad, if you are refreshing Rend at regular/consistent intervals, then the overall effect in terms of crit distribution is the same anyway. On the other hand if you were skilled enough at reading your damage numbers you could continue to refresh Rend until you do in fact crit. You would probably only bother to do this when you have reduced the fight down to just the elites or for single bosses. I couldn't be bothered myself. So the conclusion is refresh as you need to, either to make sure you have Rend active on as many enemies as possible, or to ensure damage when you expect your damage output will be interrupted (either by mobs kiting or anticipated CC effects like frozen). Now, I have yet to try Hammer of the Ancients or Seismic Slam. The problem with them is that they don't increase your tankiness/sustain. Therefore, the only slot I can see myself giving up for one of them is Battle Rage. They would have to do enough damage to warrant dropping Battle Rage. This concludes my analysis so far. Unfortunately, I won't have time to play for at least 3 weeks, as I'm going on an overseas trip tomorrow. Please keep the discussion going without me  | ||
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
On August 22 2012 06:21 Hairy wrote: While I praise the write-up very much for its quality (it really is a very good post), I tried the build today and wasn't really having much fun (I thought I'd try it out to see if it's something I wanted to gear towards). It was pleasing to be able to stand and tank incoming damage like a boss, but I feel pathetic to how I perform as WW/sprint. I actually levelled up using a build extremely similar to this, but I don't see myself going back any time soon. I am getting pretty tired of sprinting, though... perhaps a flashy 2H build using one of these fancy new patch weapons? :D No probs, Hairy, it's not everyone's style. Just like WW/Sprint isn't mine. I hope I have still provided info that has been useful to you though I just played around a bit with a cheap 2H weapon using Rend. I am probably doing more damage, but damn, I just can't get over how slow my attacks are. After being used to a 1.40 aps weapon for 99% of my time as a barb, I just can't get used to the slow attack speed. Didn't enjoy the feeling of attacking so slow, so I switched back  | ||
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iLLusive
United States274 Posts
Thanks for breakdown of Rend think I will keep my build as is and slowly work past my 25k current DPS as I feel I am pretty tanky in Act 2 and do ok in Act 3 just lack DPS. | ||
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
My gear is mostly the same as before. Only change I think is my shield, which I managed to pick up at a bargain price of 2M this morning. So far I've still got the old skill setup until I get to play around more in a few weeks time. I put in a Ruby in my helm last night, just for the bonus EXP, so a bit less HP than usual. Also, I think I just happened to have WotB active when I left the game (testing my numbers  ) My DPS is actually around 49K with Marauder's Rage.As for a weapon, I'm sure you can get pretty good stuff for $25-50. The market is in a volatile state now though, because of how iLevel 61 and 62 weapons have been made stronger. You could try to either capitalise on somebody underpricing an item, or wait for the market to stabilise. In a few days, the market might end up saturating with decent weapons and cause them to be quite cheap. On the other hand, the patch is bringing more players back to the game, so there might be a higher demand for good weapons that are beyond what iLevel 61 and 62 weapons can achieve. I'm not much of a speculator, so it's up to you how you want to approach it. I don't trade on the RMAH though, so I don't know too much about how well the market follows the GAH. I think that within your budget you can find a weapon with solid DPS/STR. But I think at that budget you're hitting the point where it's also worth searching for Crit Damage/Socket as well. You probably won't find something comparable in terms of DPS for cost, but you might get lucky! Compare what you find in a DPS calculator | ||
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vol_
Australia1608 Posts
Battle Rage is at the top of my list of skills to cut but I think I will use the higher damage rune if thats the case, although your idea for taking out an armor passive for weapon master sounds good too, I'll give them both a shot over the next few days. E: Blasting through the keep depths with weapon master and rend blood lust, I have 28k dps and just blasted a pack of health link lashers before way before wotb went down. It is sooo sweet for white mobs too, u can just run past and rend them once with a few requiring a revenge to finish off. Got the hang of hitting rend then just running away to gear swap, so much less painful than having to wait for follower to dps. Rend is awesome. E2: Running 'Rendvenge' with just the 1 armor passive Im clearing act 3 much faster and even had a run with no deaths :O | ||
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dadde
Italy314 Posts
i got 3 rings,and i dunno how to combine them.here are my stats with 2 combinations...but i dunno which one to use!what wuld you do ? I m a tank and i like playing in party (i really hate solo), so my main job is to "bleed" for the others.On the other hand,i dont want to bhe ABSOLUTELY USELESS. The screens are taken with 2 active bufs : Damage one (rage) and Res all (the scream). Sorry for the italian link,but i got D3 in ITA :S Can you help me?thanks.Actualy i've jsut started ACT 4. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8lFpj.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZSo2u.png) Dave | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
I also feel bash -> punish is better then frenzy now if you're not running any (significant) life on hit. frenzy with sidearm does 1.1 * 1.25 * 1.75 = 2.4x damage to single unit with some splash. bash with punish does 1.65 * 1.24 = 2x damage but also gives your other spells a 24% buff. Bash is also better from the first strike whereas frenzy needs more time warming up, bash with punish is active in 3 attacks timings, frenzy needs 3.95 attack timings (1 + 1/1.15 + 1/1.30 + 1/1.45 + 1.60) With rend the bash punish definately does more damage and works a bit better with kiting as losing stacks is not as bad as with frenzy. Plus 24% damage on your rend really makes it an awesome aoe, with the lifesteal even a decent sustain. The knockback and faster fury generation are just gravy and make it even sweeter for quickly firing off rend and Wotb, especially when you don't have battle rage to worry about anymore. Trang have you tried this setup: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#acSVkP!ZYb!bZcccZ I think it will let you do far more damage while actually having better surviveability. You lose the 30% from marauder rage but gain 15% from weapons master which with the insane damge from rend let's you steal quite some life. I'm pretty sure bash is an upgrade over frenzy for you as well, either you are kiting in which case bash is better for sure or you are standing surrounded by guys in which case the extra damage from rend because of bash stacks outweighs frenzy as well plus against a single target the knockback is good as well. Personally I think leap with iron impact is better than dreadnough as well but that's personal preference. The increased armor from leap is great with healing effects like revenge/rend and i prefer it for positioning over dreadnaught. It's also better against low amount of units as the armor effect is independant of hitting units whereas dreadnaught isn't. Finally leaping into a fight is pretty good because of the armor effect lasting afterwards whereas charging into a fight doesn't do anything if you're full health already. Anyway either are quite similar so it doesn't matter too much. | ||
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vol_
Australia1608 Posts
Edit: Bash actually gives too much rage and when the boost to rend damage is factored in is comparable DPS to Frenzy. Im using Bash for now because it sounds like cannons firing ^_^ | ||
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bruteMax
Canada339 Posts
I switch between s&b and a simple dw build and with my gear farm act 3 fairly comfortably. I'm squishy when I swap in the MF gear so I have to time the last elite mob somewhat carefully. Here's my profile with s&b gear: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/bruteMax-1914/hero/3288774 I wish I had a bit more all-res and vit, but overall the sustain from Rend and the heals from Revenge keep me in the thick of things most of the time. Looking for a decent Hallowed Storm to get that extra all-res and dps boost. Mainly just want to add that I dropped WotB in favour of Leap. I find with Battle Rage I have more than enough dps to drop elite packs fairly easily. The problem with WotB is that it's too good lol. My dps gets too high and I end up without enough time to swap into MF gear. With WotB active a Rend tick usually finishes off the last elite mob before I finish swapping gear. Argh! I also miss having a mobility skill, and Iron Impact gives me the def bonus I need when swapping into MF gear. I used to use Maniac rune but the Sidearm rune does kill stuff faster. I mutter a thanks to Trang everytime I see 100k crits from a Sidearm proc. Any advice on the gear/build? I use pretty much the same armor when I dw. | ||
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iLLusive
United States274 Posts
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/iLLusive-1834/hero/20808608 Tried the WW build but I need more practice so I am sticking to sword & board since it's fine playstyle for my current schedule. I get maybe 1 to 1.5 hours to farm every other day and maybe 1 day off every 2 weeks (which just happens to be today!) so I really want to build up my paragon and killing stuff faster is going to accomplish that. I see tank builds with 50-75k DPS I just need to figure out what I am lacking that will still let me survive A3. | ||
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bruteMax
Canada339 Posts
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TheRealArtemis
687 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:42 iLLusive wrote: So Trang I have run into a wall and hoping you can provide some suggestions. I feel I am very comfortable with this spec and rarely die in A3 but I clear pretty slow. What would be 2 items I could replace that would really bump up my DPS from 32k? http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/iLLusive-1834/hero/20808608 Tried the WW build but I need more practice so I am sticking to sword & board since it's fine playstyle for my current schedule. I get maybe 1 to 1.5 hours to farm every other day and maybe 1 day off every 2 weeks (which just happens to be today!) so I really want to build up my paragon and killing stuff faster is going to accomplish that. I see tank builds with 50-75k DPS I just need to figure out what I am lacking that will still let me survive A3. If I were you I would get rid of that justice lantern ring. Since the nerf, Inferno has pretty much become a free ride. You dont need all that block. I got a 32% stormshield and doing just fine. (given that I also have alot of all res/hp) I even switched out my helm of command for a tempo twilight, because now I can stack as much dmg without hurting my survivablity. http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Artemis-2465/hero/876094 Second, perhaps the amu. It does really nothing but give a ton of hp. If you want a dmg boost, you need the crit or attack speed. I myself is trying to get myself as much dmg now that inferno has gotten alot easier. Before I had a 400 loh gem in my sword, doesnt even miss it anymore. I just really really need some good gloves but those things costs a to. | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/seeblue-1408/hero/18697939 What should I invest in more of to go down this road? And also is life on hit worthwhile still? | ||
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iLLusive
United States274 Posts
So I have np replacing the Justice Latern should I just seek a ring with roughly 75 str / 3 crit maybe some Loh or ias? Looked at Tempo helms but I don't have 20-50m to spend on a helm right now is there any more affordable options in like the 5-10m range or 10ish$ on RMAH? I am really open to any critisism out there being I have been basing my gear off profiles here and stats important to have enough Health / AR and armor to survive Act 3 comfortably. Been doing that for a few weeks so I now need to increase my DPS to increase speed of runs. | ||
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farvacola
United States18870 Posts
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incinerate_
172 Posts
On September 01 2012 06:58 See.Blue wrote: If this is my current profile: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/seeblue-1408/hero/18697939 What should I invest in more of to go down this road? And also is life on hit worthwhile still? It would be helpful to know how tight your budget is. Cheap upgrades should be your off-hand ring (look for something with comparable strength, and some VIT. Other good things to have are %Life, All Res (but see Trang's guide), Fire and or Physical Resist are also a definite bonus. I would also upgrade the bracers (look for STR, VIT, All Res, Phys or Fire Resist are a bonus). I know Magic Find is tempting, but this should not be your first priority. If you can afford to lose the LoH sustain on your amulet I would also consider replacing it by sth with more Str, Vit, %Life. But the other slots are more easy to upgrade in my opinion. Also the block chance of your shield is rather low. The highest spawn is afaik 20%. I would upgrade that rather sooner than later. In general your hitpoints seem very low. So I would definitely look for some more VIT and %Life. Edit: Spelling. | ||
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
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Kerans
Italy58 Posts
On September 03 2012 23:00 Burrfoot wrote: Speaking of block chance, how good is block overall? Should be fairly easy to stack 50% with 2x justice lanterns, HoC, and buffed 1.04 shield. There is also a new weapon and some pants that have block too. All are quite cheap nowadays. I read you can block ground effects and fire chains, but figured I'd ask in this thread... Is everything blockable minus status effects or whatnot? I don't think you can stack 2 JLs. That aside, I find block to be awesome around the 30-35% range, I'm at 31% with 11k armor, 900-1100 AR and 60k HP and whenever I get a fire chain mob I just ignore it. That said, you can't block desecrator, plagued, arcane and frozen, so that, coupled with the last nerf of 1.0.4, would lead me to suggest that JLs are overkill right now, and personally I'd say the same of block itself above 27-28%. Personally, if I could get my hands on a reasonably priced 27-28% block/CC/AR/STR sacred, I'd probably ditch my HoC for something more offensive-focused. | ||
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
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