EPTOn May 13 2014 18:54 Mc wrote:
Bets on Erdogan making a similar statement soon? I'll take 10/1.
Bets on Erdogan making a similar statement soon? I'll take 10/1.
I'll take that bet, 20 euros says you're wrong.
Ukraine Crisis - Page 528
| Forum Index > Closed |
There is a new policy in effect in this thread. Anyone not complying will be moderated. New policy, please read before posting: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21393711 | ||
|
Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
I'll take that bet, 20 euros says you're wrong. | ||
|
PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
| ||
|
snailz
Croatia900 Posts
On May 13 2014 17:16 Roman666 wrote: So, Victor Orban decided to take part in partition of Ukraine (this is a slight exaggeration of course): http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/10/us-hungary-orban-idUSBREA4904X20140510 well that was suprising... the most dangerous part of it all is engaging in putins rethoric, its a slippery slope, i would imagine you have situations like that in literally every modern country. On May 13 2014 18:05 Serpest wrote: Eh, it's more to recognize the indemnities required by the 1920 Treaty of Trianon. Basically, Orban wants to recognize Hungarians who were living in the areas broken off from Hungary and given to Croatia, Romania, Slovakia, Serbia, etc. They're all EU countries, and this citizenship extension to ethnic Hungarians is a means of recognizing the loss of identity Hungarians living outside of Hungary back then suffered. Hungary and Romania in particular have a decent relationship that's really blossomed since 2000. Tangent: Hungarians have an awful history/relationship with communism - extending from the country to their external minorities. They really don't like communists. The article also notes that the PM Orban extends his support to the democratic Kiev and Ukraine. EDIT: I'm not sure how I missed he also wants self administration. That's definitely what ties this article to the Ukraine Issue. Lol, Russia, I don't think you're going to like the results of this precedent in Ukraine and Crimea. i hate to derail, but what parts might that be? i was under the impression the prime minister was referencing the parts where hungarians were a majority at one point in time? im genuinely interested to find out how did we get dragged into this chaos... for others im thinking vojvodina for serbia, transylvania for romania, unsure about slovaks, how about you fill us in... oh and i did a google search that produced an interesting map on page1, hungarian source: http://www.mtafki.hu/konyvtar/kiadv/Ethnic_geography.pdf fighting and dying over lines on the map still amazes me, when you consider the level of technology and education available to a "modern" person (for free) | ||
|
Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On May 13 2014 18:54 Mc wrote: Bets on Erdogan making a similar statement soon? I'll take 10/1. and what will he demand? Crimean Tatars autonomy in Crimea? or there are others? | ||
|
mdb
Bulgaria4059 Posts
On May 13 2014 21:20 Cheerio wrote: and what will he demand? Crimean Tatars autonomy in Crimea? or there are others? South-east Bulgaria to begin with. | ||
|
radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On May 13 2014 20:33 snailz wrote: well that was suprising... the most dangerous part of it all is engaging in putins rethoric, its a slippery slope, i would imagine you have situations like that in literally every modern country. i hate to derail, but what parts might that be? i was under the impression the prime minister was referencing the parts where hungarians were a majority at one point in time? im genuinely interested to find out how did we get dragged into this chaos... for others im thinking vojvodina for serbia, transylvania for romania, unsure about slovaks, how about you fill us in... oh and i did a google search that produced an interesting map on page1, hungarian source: http://www.mtafki.hu/konyvtar/kiadv/Ethnic_geography.pdf fighting and dying over lines on the map still amazes me, when you consider the level of technology and education available to a "modern" person (for free) Hungary has been crawling into that hole for quite some time now, with EU discussing sanctions and even talking about creating a procedure for kicking out countries, specifically as a result of some of his constitutional changes. Even more worrying than Orban is Jobbik pushing him from the "radical right-wing" and their demands for straight up annexation. Not to mention that they are far more popular than Svoboda, while holding values very close to those of Putin with anti-gay laws and a greatly strenghtened police etc. | ||
|
mijagi182
Poland797 Posts
On May 13 2014 20:11 PaleMan wrote: looks like estonian economy will gain a huge boost supported by MCs money This post is even funnier given that Estonian GDP per capita is 2 times bigger than russian. | ||
|
nunez
Norway4003 Posts
while scumbags like pariuby, tymochenko and nemirosky are spreading lies to divert responsibility from maidan and right sector thugs (some were bussed in for the occassion), pretending they did no wrong or straight out applauding them. a 'bright day in history' reads the right sector webpage, no doubt echoing the sentiment of parubiy and his lying buddy, the fat maidan militia gunman (who is actually a criminal). it must be frightining to be an odessian. | ||
|
Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On May 13 2014 21:36 mijagi182 wrote: This post is even funnier given that Estonian GDP per capita is 2 times bigger than russian. They are almost the same, actually. Russia right on our heels. *** ^ Has it been a week already, *sigh*. It was actually nice and constructive here for a while. | ||
|
nunez
Norway4003 Posts
| ||
|
PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
On May 13 2014 21:43 Ghanburighan wrote: ^ Has it been a week already, *sigh*. It was actually nice and constructive here for a while. it wasn't a week, i just laughed at this thread in silence meanwhile in Ukraine: Yarosh (Right Sector leader): "We accomplished the dream of many ukrainians: army of Bandera crossed the Dnieper" | ||
|
Fjodorov
5007 Posts
| ||
|
Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On May 13 2014 21:58 Fjodorov wrote: Its interesting that many of the far-right extreme parties in europe, including the greek neo-nazis are supporting Putin and have friendly relations with him. How is Putin able to combine this with the rhetoric he is using regarding "fascists" and "nazis" in kyiv? It's an obvious contradiction which has been pointed out several times. But it's not very good analysis to say that Putin is chummy with extreme right parties because he is also allied with some center-left parties and extreme left parties (Die Linke in Germany). Basically you can see a pretty good list by checking out which parties sent `observers' to oversee the Crimean `Referendum'. It would be more correct to say that Putin is chummy with populist parties. | ||
|
radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On May 13 2014 21:58 Fjodorov wrote: Its interesting that many of the far-right extreme parties in europe, including the greek neo-nazis are supporting Putin and have friendly relations with him. How is Putin able to combine this with the rhetoric he is using regarding "fascists" and "nazis" in kyiv? Enemies are enemies. If you are an ultra-nationalist, the way you achieve your goals are not what makes or breaks your beliefs. The real accomplishmen of Putin is the reunification of Crimea with the motherland and the ends will always justify the means in that situation. The importance is having a strong and active leader instead of the sockpoppets nilly-willy arguing and upholding treaties. Ultra-nationalists usually have an agenda of changing the lines on the map. The new world order pushed by Putin is a very positive development for the ability to achieve that. Edit: That sentense was horribly complicated to the point of incomprehensible. I try clarifying. | ||
|
Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
| ||
|
Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
http://www.ostro.org/general/society/news/444447/ | ||
|
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On May 13 2014 20:33 snailz wrote: fighting and dying over lines on the map still amazes me, when you consider the level of technology and education available to a "modern" person (for free) Don't be silly, nobody has ever fought for a line in a map, they fight for what those lines represent, land and people and resources. As it has always been. Don't be so dismissive of the lives of people by reducing them to lines on a map. | ||
|
Mc
332 Posts
I think he didn't mean that literally.... @cheerio I was joking about Erdogan actually wanting a piece of Ukraine - but Orban and Erdogan, both are looking at how the West is responding to Putin's actions and following suite. Turkey actually is a regional power and has a powerful army so it has the potential in the future to be more aggressive w/ it's neighbouring countries. Hungary on the other hand... wtf? Clearly, Orban is just "politicing". But I don't understand the point of his rhetoric. Is it to shore up nationalism at home? Is he hoping to use it as some sort of weird pressure on the EU? Or maybe he's giving a friendly 'hello' to Putin, hoping he'll return the favour at some latter point in time. | ||
|
Acertos
France852 Posts
On May 13 2014 22:02 Ghanburighan wrote: It's an obvious contradiction which has been pointed out several times. But it's not very good analysis to say that Putin is chummy with extreme right parties because he is also allied with some center-left parties and extreme left parties (Die Linke in Germany). Basically you can see a pretty good list by checking out which parties sent `observers' to oversee the Crimean `Referendum'. It would be more correct to say that Putin is chummy with populist parties. I made a remark about that on the US politics megathread, right or left and the ideals they protect don't matter if you want to create an authoritarian and powerful state. Communists and far-right extremists want a super powerful state and Putin displays the splendor of Russia's internal and international diplomacy so ofc he is admired and getting support from people who would like to do the same in their own country. Idk which center-left parties are allied with him, do you have any example? Because if it's within Russia or CEE countries maybe it's just another disguised nostalgic party. edit: btw welcome back nunez | ||
|
marigoldran
219 Posts
It's a pattern. Happened to the Tsars. Then the Communists. And eventually it will happen to the "new Czars" or Russia, of which Putin is the first. | ||
| ||
