Ukraine Crisis - Page 230

On March 07 2014 05:02 TheFish7 wrote:
Interesting interview with the former head of the Stolen Asset Recovery Initiative (World Bank) on recovering Yanukovich's disappeared assets.



source



Agreed, the SU37 is a superior fighter for the most part, not sure what F-16s are supposed to do against that except as a show of solidarity or something

On March 07 2014 06:08 Gorsameth wrote:


The west had the Occupy movement a while back. They protested in our streets for a long time aswell without being payed to do so. When people feel strongly about something they are willing to do that. Also don't forget while people are protesting there is a lot of people who agree with them. While they are not in the street themselves for a lot of reasons, mostly not wanting to give up work i guess, they do bring food/supplies to protestors out of compassion.

Make people mad enough and they will protests for months to get there point across.

Crimea's deputy prime minister, Rustam Temirgaliev, said the referendum was now only to "confirm" parliament's decision, and he considered Crimea to be part of Russia already. He said that all Ukrainian troops on the territory should either leave or be treated as occupiers. Crimea is planning to introduce the rouble and readopt Russian state symbols.

The Russian president Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that Russia was "not considering" annexing Crimea, but on Thursday, Sergei Mironov, a Russian MP, said the Duma, Russia's parliament, could consider the issue as early as next week. The Duma has already begun work on a bill that would make it easier for Russia to join new territories, clearly penned with one eye on Crimea events.

Vladimir Konstantinov, speaker of the Crimean parliament, said the new authorities in Kiev were a "junta, which came to power and is trying to legalise itself".

He said: "We can beat them only with force. I am convinced there will be no order in the country until adequate force is used to destroy this system."

There is little international presence in the region, after the UN's special envoy was forced to leave when he was confronted by an angry gang on Wednesday. A bus of 43 unarmed OSCE military observers from 23 countries was denied entry to the peninsula by a checkpoint of armed irregulars on Thursday, and had to turn back.

On March 07 2014 07:16 Ghanburighan wrote:
https://twitter.com/BarrosoEU/status/441624349184131074
https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/441691476616302593

No de-escalation in sight...

On March 07 2014 07:24 Sub40APM wrote:

I am genuinely curious how they could get a de-escalation. If you are an average Russian and you are told that Kiev is ruled by a junta of Neo Nazis and is in chaos supported by NATO/US imperialists who are getting ready to unleash blood thirsty Tatars on innocent Russians, how can you just walk away from that without being seen as selling out Russians to genocide?

On March 07 2014 07:28 Ghanburighan wrote:


Errr, they just start a different record on state media. And generally continue to disregard public opinion.

On March 07 2014 07:16 Ghanburighan wrote:
https://twitter.com/BarrosoEU/status/441624349184131074

No de-escalation in sight...

On March 07 2014 07:50 xM(Z wrote:
Ukraine signs the money deals way to fast (while still being a country with huge corruption issues). Other EU candidates waited in line for years.
it's fishy to say the least.

On March 07 2014 07:35 Sub40APM wrote:

Maybe but building a powerful Russian nationalism is party of rallying the people to the state, I dont think you can just turn that off. And if you are Putin -- and appear to be paranoid that Maidan is just a warm up for a revolution in Russia -- wouldnt you be worried that Western puppet manipulators will gleefully broadcast sad Russians in Crimea crying about being abandoned by Putin at the last minute and handed over to fascists? I am not being sarcastic here -- if the Russians leave Crimea, it goes back to Ukraine in anyway the actual people on the ground will be in for a massive emotional trauma.

I guess the only way it doesnt look like abandoning if the spin turns towards "Look what we forced the fascists to do, abandon their extremist genocide plans and allow Eastern Ukrainians representation in government. So we saved you" but still, if you are saying stuff like "I already consider us part of Russia and we have Russian experts on the ground telling us what to do and Ukrainian soldiers are occupiers" then how do you turn that off? I guess maybe thats why no one from the Party of Regions is going on tv in Crimea and saying inflammatory things, they can always pack away these "Russia Unity" guys and go back to things as usual after wards.

On March 07 2014 07:52 Sub40APM wrote:

Its not an ascension treaty. Its an association treaty. Yanukovich signed it, the EU suspended it because in its view the political arrest of Timonshenko.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Association_Agreement

Until the evening of March 5th, when foreign ministers were meeting in Paris to try to set up the contact group, it seemed unlikely the Europeans would move so far. Germany, in particular, was keen not to upset its question for a diplomatic solution (as explained in Charlemagne here).

President François Hollande of France said a combination of factors changed the mood and stiffened Europe’s resolve. One was the vote by the Crimean parliament for the peninsula to rejoin Russia, to be sealed in a rush through a referendum on March 16th. Another was the refusal to allow a group of international monitors to visit Crimea. A third was the action of pro-Russian mob that forced a UN special envoy, Robert Serry, to seek refuge in a café in Crimea and eventually leave the region. Diplomats add several more elements: the failure of the Paris talks to reach agreement on a contact group; the failure of talks in Moscow between Mr Putin and Germany’s deputy chancellor, Sigmar Gabriel; and the announcement that America was preparing to impose visa bans and asset freezes on those deemed responsible for the invasion of Crimea.

As opposition leaders took over the transitional government in Ukraine, EU governments wanted to wait for new elections and a permanent government to be established before signing the accord. Awkwardly, having promised the deal to the bloodstained Mr Yanukovych, they could hardly deny the agreement to those who had died waving the EU’s flag. The intense suspicion surrounding Ukraine’s new crop of leaders, especially from protesters on Maidan’s Square, was apparent from another intercepted conversation leaked this week, this time between the Estonian foreign minister, Urmas Paet, and Cathy Ashton, the EU’s foreign-policy chief. The two are heard to discuss a conspiracy theory among Maidan protesters that the snipers fired on both protesters and policemen, and were hired by somebody in the opposition parties rather than Mr Yanukovych.

But Russia’s action is forcing EU leaders to set aside their qualms. As one diplomat put it, more than one leader came to the summit thinking their task was to defend their economic interests from the threat of sanctions, and left thinking the security or Europe was at stake. Mr Yatseniuk made an impassioned plea at the summit for the EU to press ahead with the association agreement. Leaders decided to split the accord into its “political” and “economic” parts. The former would be signed in the coming days or weeks, probably in Kiev; the latter would be left to an unspecified future date. This means that Kiev will immediately gain the symbolism of closer ties with the EU.

On March 07 2014 08:04 radiatoren wrote:

Small correction. It was Yanukovych suspending signature of the agreement november 21th and the refusal of doing it on the big european summit november 28-29 in Vilnius that led to the mostly peaceful start of Euromaidan.

http://www.neurope.eu/article/ukraine-eu-association-agreement-be-signed-2012 On 22 January at the Ukraine National Palace Yanukovych: “Ukraine will sign an association agreement including a deep and comprehensive free-trade area with the European Union in 2012. This year we will conclude the association agreement and the agreement on the free trade area."

http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/04/ukraine-and-eu With Europeans showing an interest in values again, it could take years for the EU-Ukraine agreement to pass—especially now that Ms Tymoshenko is facing further criminal charges.

Moreover, both sides have other concerns. Brussels did not bother to organise a press conference after the initialling. Ukrainian politicians are busy bartering in the run-up to parliamentary elections scheduled for October. Still, “European integration remains Ukraine's unchanging priority”, President Viktor Yanukovich told readers of the Polish publication Gazeta Prawna on Sunday.

On March 07 2014 08:34 Saumure wrote:
just fyi, Russia said they (and China) would sell all treasury bonds if "the west" would freeze russian accounts and place economic sanctions on them.

On March 07 2014 08:43 Nyxisto wrote:
Can someone explain to me what selling dollar cash reserves would actually accomplish? Wouldn't that just drive the dollar exchange rate a little down? Well cool then the US can export a little better. Is that a real threat?

On March 07 2014 08:43 Saumure wrote:
Was not really specified who said what. But it doesn't really matter, because if Russia and the Russian billionaires sell, China could not afford not to sell... (edit: hypothetically ofc, I don't want to get in any trouble here)