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On October 10 2013 18:58 Yorbon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 18:42 flashimba wrote:On October 10 2013 18:35 Caihead wrote:On October 10 2013 18:25 flashimba wrote:
Coming out of retirement and finding out that your new occupation is completely different and terrible can really damage your mindset. Then you look around the corner and see other people enjoying your old job, you can't help but rage, and find any reason to put them down.
Not surprised at all.
oov, I am disappoint. Hahaha that's really funny, saying that oov even went into retirement instead of just doing mandatory military service; that going back to head coaching SKT, one of the oldest and most respected esports teams, is a terrible occupation; and that oov, one of the few legends who was there while they built the fucking industry and was eating ramen and cleaning dishes when there wasn't even a thing like stable salary contracts, is the type of person who would just lash out and find any reason to put down "people enjoying your old job" when there is no professional BW left now. Ah hahahaha masterfully done sir, I applaud you. Oh wait you are serious. On October 10 2013 18:29 AleXoundOS wrote:
Oh, iloveoov, if you bash the entire BW streaming, provide another reasonable environment for playing BW and getting money. And you, showing such attitude towards retired players, hurt esports even more.
I wish your words were misinterpreted. You do realize that he was one of the only people in the world who can even say that he actually personally contributed to providing a reasonable environment for playing BW and getting money right? Like a decade ago? Alongside people like Boxer? Kids these days. You have any source about oov's contributions or are you saying that anyone around during the early days also contributed to the scene? If legends don't contribute, who do?
You know who else was a legend who had no business destroying the scene regardless of any contribution they had made?
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lol sorry then if translation is incorrect
but im pretty sure its not so far from what he said
koreans are 1# country at jumping the high horse and acting like parangons of moral
to me it pretty much looks like a direct attack from kespa / ogn to the afreeca scene
it always worked this way....
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On October 10 2013 19:18 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 18:36 Stratos wrote:On October 10 2013 18:10 Talin wrote:On October 10 2013 17:27 Stratos wrote:
Thanks to Savior's greed, the scene that's left today can only support so many players. I would like those who talk about forgiving Savior to think about that and realize that they're supporting the guy who helped destroy the careers of many young players who looked up to him as their senior and hero. The effects of the scandal are blown way out of proportion in the big picture. There is literally zero indication that anything would be different today if match fixing had not happened. The players involved destroyed mostly their own careers and little else. There is more than enough indication that it played some role in gathering sponsorship for the leagues that were to follow. Whether the indications are correct or the main cause was different is up for discussion, but you don't expect me to do the work for you and provide the sources if all you do is give random statements like that, right? I don't want to have that discussion anyway. The simple truth is that Savior's actions caused some amount of damage to the entirety of the Brood War scene. I couldn't care less about exact numbers, but as it is, I find him still milking the remaining scene absurd and crude. That's all I have to say on this matter, I'll be leaving the discussion now as I hope it dies away sooner rather than later and Savior finally moves on. All the heavyweight sponsors continued supporting BW for up to 2 years after the match fixing scandal. That alone invalidates your point. If the Telecoms, Samsung and Shinhan Bank thought that there's nothing wrong with supporting the scene post-matchfixing and continued to actively associate their brands with Brood War as if nothing bad ever happened, matchfixing would obviously not be enough to deter any other company from entering the scene if they ever had any intent of doing so. It's just convenient to dump everything on one guy's back and pretend the future would have been all milk and honey if only he hadn't done what he did. MBC would still be a gaming channel, Kespa would have never taken all the teams and players over to SC2, and nobody in Korea would give a shit about League of Legends today.
thats pretty much the fucking truth
when it comes to business, from my own personal experience, koreans always act like douches and hypocrits
what oov said is so so so korean ....
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On October 10 2013 18:58 Yorbon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 18:42 flashimba wrote:On October 10 2013 18:35 Caihead wrote:On October 10 2013 18:25 flashimba wrote:
Coming out of retirement and finding out that your new occupation is completely different and terrible can really damage your mindset. Then you look around the corner and see other people enjoying your old job, you can't help but rage, and find any reason to put them down.
Not surprised at all.
oov, I am disappoint. Hahaha that's really funny, saying that oov even went into retirement instead of just doing mandatory military service; that going back to head coaching SKT, one of the oldest and most respected esports teams, is a terrible occupation; and that oov, one of the few legends who was there while they built the fucking industry and was eating ramen and cleaning dishes when there wasn't even a thing like stable salary contracts, is the type of person who would just lash out and find any reason to put down "people enjoying your old job" when there is no professional BW left now. Ah hahahaha masterfully done sir, I applaud you. Oh wait you are serious. On October 10 2013 18:29 AleXoundOS wrote:
Oh, iloveoov, if you bash the entire BW streaming, provide another reasonable environment for playing BW and getting money. And you, showing such attitude towards retired players, hurt esports even more.
I wish your words were misinterpreted. You do realize that he was one of the only people in the world who can even say that he actually personally contributed to providing a reasonable environment for playing BW and getting money right? Like a decade ago? Alongside people like Boxer? Kids these days. You have any source about oov's contributions or are you saying that anyone around during the early days also contributed to the scene? If legends don't contribute, who do?
No one is saying oov didn't contribute. Every progamer and progaming related job contributed. I was interested in knowing how oov stood out from the rest in changing the industry to be one where players earnt a stable salary. Did he form a players' union of some sort?
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
just to clarify in case people still think there is mistranslation:
- iloveoov heavily condemning bisu playing with savior (guilty by association) and saying "bisu isn't sparing a thought for what savior did and the negative impact he left on the scene and other players"
- and because of that, also condemns all other streamers who are also playing with savior, not just any streamer.
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On October 10 2013 19:25 konadora wrote:
just to clarify in case people still think there is mistranslation:
- iloveoov heavily condemning bisu playing with savior (guilty by association) and saying "bisu isn't sparing a thought for what savior did and the negative impact he left on the scene and other players"
- and because of that, also condemns all other streamers who are also playing with savior, not just any streamer.
guess oov going apeshit is a big indicator of the original pro scene decline and soon death
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Srsly, more Korean-Americans come forward with your shitty translations and anti-BW conspiracy theories.
Everyone else go research what's being said instead of reading the two most recent posts and giving your uninformed opinion.
EDIT: Yes people that do TRANSLATIONS read the entire article and try to understand the context. They are also careful about the implications of their translations. They don't stir shit by extrapolating from an open interpretation of a particular segment of the interview.
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On October 10 2013 19:30 Pathos wrote:
Srsly, more Korean-Americans come forward with your shitty translations and anti-BW conspiracy theories.
sup ? "Korean-Americans" with their "shitty translations" are making this site live since forever ?
maybe you should rather thank them, all these shitty korean americans, for all the work they done ?
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50585 Posts
On October 10 2013 19:25 konadora wrote:
just to clarify in case people still think there is mistranslation:
- iloveoov heavily condemning bisu playing with savior (guilty by association) and saying "bisu isn't sparing a thought for what savior did and the negative impact he left on the scene and other players"
- and because of that, also condemns all other streamers who are also playing with savior, not just any streamer.
I thought anyone who associates themselves to sonic's tournaments, by rule are not allowed to associate with people involved in the scandal though?
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On October 10 2013 19:32 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 19:30 Pathos wrote:
Srsly, more Korean-Americans come forward with your shitty translations and anti-BW conspiracy theories. sup ? "Korean-Americans" with their "shitty translations" are making this site live since forever ? maybe you should rather thank them, all these shitty korean americans, for all the work they done ?
Get the fk out son: "when it comes to business, from my own personal experience, koreans always act like douches and hypocrits"
The only person on their high moral ground in this thread is you.
One person's interpretation de-railed this entire thread into a pointless SC2 vs BW discussion. As much as I dislike SC2 and like BW, the idiocy of the people attacking iloveoov and SC2 is making this community look bad.
iloveoov is the HEAD coach of SKT, and he is still incredibly skeptical (yet hopeful) of Blizzard's development of SC2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430737. He is one of the most recognized strategists who continued to study and develop the game after he wasn't able to physically compete anymore. He is the last person you can accuse of abandoning the game.
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
yeah but in the translation oov states bisu plays with savior. either he knows something we dont or he misunderstood about bisu watching his old games (which i highly doubt, given that we're talking about oov here)
On October 10 2013 19:22 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 19:18 Talin wrote:On October 10 2013 18:36 Stratos wrote:On October 10 2013 18:10 Talin wrote:On October 10 2013 17:27 Stratos wrote:
Thanks to Savior's greed, the scene that's left today can only support so many players. I would like those who talk about forgiving Savior to think about that and realize that they're supporting the guy who helped destroy the careers of many young players who looked up to him as their senior and hero. The effects of the scandal are blown way out of proportion in the big picture. There is literally zero indication that anything would be different today if match fixing had not happened. The players involved destroyed mostly their own careers and little else. There is more than enough indication that it played some role in gathering sponsorship for the leagues that were to follow. Whether the indications are correct or the main cause was different is up for discussion, but you don't expect me to do the work for you and provide the sources if all you do is give random statements like that, right? I don't want to have that discussion anyway. The simple truth is that Savior's actions caused some amount of damage to the entirety of the Brood War scene. I couldn't care less about exact numbers, but as it is, I find him still milking the remaining scene absurd and crude. That's all I have to say on this matter, I'll be leaving the discussion now as I hope it dies away sooner rather than later and Savior finally moves on. All the heavyweight sponsors continued supporting BW for up to 2 years after the match fixing scandal. That alone invalidates your point. If the Telecoms, Samsung and Shinhan Bank thought that there's nothing wrong with supporting the scene post-matchfixing and continued to actively associate their brands with Brood War as if nothing bad ever happened, matchfixing would obviously not be enough to deter any other company from entering the scene if they ever had any intent of doing so. It's just convenient to dump everything on one guy's back and pretend the future would have been all milk and honey if only he hadn't done what he did. MBC would still be a gaming channel, Kespa would have never taken all the teams and players over to SC2, and nobody in Korea would give a shit about League of Legends today. thats pretty much the fucking truth when it comes to business, from my own personal experience, koreans always act like douches and hypocrits what oov said is so so so korean ....
i'm korean and i feel that is kinda offensive :/ not all are like that. please don't generalise kthx
On October 10 2013 19:32 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 19:25 konadora wrote:
just to clarify in case people still think there is mistranslation:
- iloveoov heavily condemning bisu playing with savior (guilty by association) and saying "bisu isn't sparing a thought for what savior did and the negative impact he left on the scene and other players"
- and because of that, also condemns all other streamers who are also playing with savior, not just any streamer. I thought anyone who associates themselves to sonic's tournaments, by rule are not allowed to associate with people involved in the scandal though?
but we dont know for sure if bisu DID indeed play with savior (there were rumors that they did though, right?). and i'm sure there are some players who go around this rule. even sonic admitted there was matchmaking long time ago and still continued anyway. it's kind of those evil that can't be fully eradicated sadly. you can't 100% stop one player from playing with another on the internet.
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Yeah that's why this is the first warning any person in Korea will often give you when you try doing business.
edit: this is so fucked up i'm so tired of this bye
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Didn't sAviOr beat iloveoovs 27 win streak vs Zerg?
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On October 10 2013 19:22 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 19:18 Talin wrote:On October 10 2013 18:36 Stratos wrote:On October 10 2013 18:10 Talin wrote:On October 10 2013 17:27 Stratos wrote:
Thanks to Savior's greed, the scene that's left today can only support so many players. I would like those who talk about forgiving Savior to think about that and realize that they're supporting the guy who helped destroy the careers of many young players who looked up to him as their senior and hero. The effects of the scandal are blown way out of proportion in the big picture. There is literally zero indication that anything would be different today if match fixing had not happened. The players involved destroyed mostly their own careers and little else. There is more than enough indication that it played some role in gathering sponsorship for the leagues that were to follow. Whether the indications are correct or the main cause was different is up for discussion, but you don't expect me to do the work for you and provide the sources if all you do is give random statements like that, right? I don't want to have that discussion anyway. The simple truth is that Savior's actions caused some amount of damage to the entirety of the Brood War scene. I couldn't care less about exact numbers, but as it is, I find him still milking the remaining scene absurd and crude. That's all I have to say on this matter, I'll be leaving the discussion now as I hope it dies away sooner rather than later and Savior finally moves on. All the heavyweight sponsors continued supporting BW for up to 2 years after the match fixing scandal. That alone invalidates your point. If the Telecoms, Samsung and Shinhan Bank thought that there's nothing wrong with supporting the scene post-matchfixing and continued to actively associate their brands with Brood War as if nothing bad ever happened, matchfixing would obviously not be enough to deter any other company from entering the scene if they ever had any intent of doing so. It's just convenient to dump everything on one guy's back and pretend the future would have been all milk and honey if only he hadn't done what he did. MBC would still be a gaming channel, Kespa would have never taken all the teams and players over to SC2, and nobody in Korea would give a shit about League of Legends today. thats pretty much the fucking truth when it comes to business, from my own personal experience, koreans always act like douches and hypocrits what oov said is so so so korean ....
Do you have to bash Koreans every other sentence? Tone it down please.
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On October 10 2013 20:06 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 19:22 Boonbag wrote:On October 10 2013 19:18 Talin wrote:On October 10 2013 18:36 Stratos wrote:On October 10 2013 18:10 Talin wrote:On October 10 2013 17:27 Stratos wrote:
Thanks to Savior's greed, the scene that's left today can only support so many players. I would like those who talk about forgiving Savior to think about that and realize that they're supporting the guy who helped destroy the careers of many young players who looked up to him as their senior and hero. The effects of the scandal are blown way out of proportion in the big picture. There is literally zero indication that anything would be different today if match fixing had not happened. The players involved destroyed mostly their own careers and little else. There is more than enough indication that it played some role in gathering sponsorship for the leagues that were to follow. Whether the indications are correct or the main cause was different is up for discussion, but you don't expect me to do the work for you and provide the sources if all you do is give random statements like that, right? I don't want to have that discussion anyway. The simple truth is that Savior's actions caused some amount of damage to the entirety of the Brood War scene. I couldn't care less about exact numbers, but as it is, I find him still milking the remaining scene absurd and crude. That's all I have to say on this matter, I'll be leaving the discussion now as I hope it dies away sooner rather than later and Savior finally moves on. All the heavyweight sponsors continued supporting BW for up to 2 years after the match fixing scandal. That alone invalidates your point. If the Telecoms, Samsung and Shinhan Bank thought that there's nothing wrong with supporting the scene post-matchfixing and continued to actively associate their brands with Brood War as if nothing bad ever happened, matchfixing would obviously not be enough to deter any other company from entering the scene if they ever had any intent of doing so. It's just convenient to dump everything on one guy's back and pretend the future would have been all milk and honey if only he hadn't done what he did. MBC would still be a gaming channel, Kespa would have never taken all the teams and players over to SC2, and nobody in Korea would give a shit about League of Legends today. thats pretty much the fucking truth when it comes to business, from my own personal experience, koreans always act like douches and hypocrits what oov said is so so so korean .... Do you have to bash Koreans every other sentence? Tone it down please.
you could bash french ppl all day long i'd hardly give a fuck
and i dont bash koreans every fucking sentence
im actually living with one
edit : and i'm so sorry to despise korean culture and dismiss it as a whole, because there's nothing really to gloat about in it and hardly anything's worthwhile to keep (maybe the food ?)
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On October 10 2013 19:45 Highways wrote:
Didn't sAviOr beat iloveoovs 27 win streak vs Zerg?
In all honesty, I think this is the reason why oov hates Savior
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Thats probably one of the dumbest things ive ever read.
much respect lost
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Back the fuck off from the Afreeca scene, please
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On October 10 2013 19:45 Highways wrote:
Didn't sAviOr beat iloveoovs 27 win streak vs Zerg?
It was July.
Also, I'd take what iloveoov has to say with a grain of salt. He was far from exemplary himself, and always had these kind of tendencies to talk brashly without giving things too much thought. That being said, it's stupid to counter-balance that by pretending that what's past is past, and we should embrace sAviOr with open arms now. It doesn't matter if dickheads like Justin were more heavily involved in these match-fixing business, sAviOr was meant to be the chosen one, the guy everybody expected to be the next e-Sports superstar after in a manner similar to BoxeR, but instead he threw it all away, and the level of betrayal was beyond repair. I really don't know why being blase about it somehow makes people feel better, when almost every single one of us here would have much rather prefered to see the Starcraft scene flourish like in the past, rather than watch it degrade to a casual level, with a washed-up, unapologetic sell-out like sAviOr being the centre of attention. It may be overboard to witch-hunt sAviOr every single moment available, but the guy just asks to be hounded upon with his attitude, and I have nearly zero sympathy with someone who savours being the "controversial" figurehead of the community and profits off that, and brings down the level of people surrounding him. He is a cancerous being, and what started off as a simple mistake for an inexperienced kid, has evolved into something far more toxic. There's nothing about the guy right now that reminds me of the genius who gave the scene a breath of fresh air, and looked like the one who would take the scene to the next level.
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EPT
