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On January 21 2013 12:09 Kyir wrote:
The refusal of SNM to play along with Whiplash's jokes is my biggest problem with their dynamic. They're not all great jokes in the first place but it's really jarring when something's set up and SNM just does not acknowledge it at all.
That's basically one of the reasons I dislike Khaldor, just to say how much not playing along makes the casting awkward.
There's just a lot to improve on. You might want me to be constructive here, but the truth is that an improvement in any aspect of casting will be very very welcomed. I've often considered muting the stream but that's pretty awkward, so I often just wait for the Korean vods (something I dislike having to do as I don't enjoy not understanding casts). In the end, just practice your casting, your chemistry and your speech/vocabulary.
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On January 21 2013 12:09 Ammanas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 11:59 MisterFred wrote:
has either a speech impediment or a super-strong accent that's simply unacceptable for a professional broadcaster of anything A lot of people are saying this, but can you pinpoint what exactly do you mean? I am asking because I don't quite understand what you mean - I have no problems of understanding him and english is not even my first language.
Actually, no, I don't think I can come up with the words to describe it. I can understand what he's saying, but there's something very off with the way he pronounces many words, particularly the endings. Generally this gives his speech a mealy-mouthed** quality, as if he can't correctly pronounce some consonants (this is why people have guessed a speech impediment, even though that may not be accurate).
I'd say he can't enunciate, but it goes beyond that.
**edit: to clarify, mealy-mouthed is an older term to describe a certain type of poor speech. The root of the term is sounding like you're talking with your mouth full
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I love Whiplash. He's great but the two have some time to work out their chemistry and rhythm. I'm not dissatisfied with the casting but it'll need some work.
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Kinda random, but I once had a PM argument (years ago) with SNM. I thought his comments were nonsense. He told me I must not follow proleague at all or else I would know him. It was just kinda interesting to me, as I followed pro league more closely than most, yet I still had no idea. And here, years later, everyone that does follow pro league does in fact know SNM. Sadly, most wish they didn't know him to the extent that they do. His comments were nonsensical in the past, so not sure why they wouldn't be now.
I still think caster bashing is lame. There's just not enough great ones to get worked up over. Before you bash someone, you better be in love with potential replacements. Just doesn't make that much difference. If I can have 2 joes that can't translate Korean to English or 1 horribad caster that can translate, well, give me horribad. My eyes can tell me what's going on, and if the sound bothers me, hey, I'll just mute until the interviews. Being able to translate is getting underrated. I know most people would be like, just have him translate and have 2 other casters. If everyone decides to work for free, then I agree.
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On January 21 2013 12:16 Exigaet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 11:59 Alryk wrote:
From my perspective as a high masters player (protoss, but it doesn't matter:
The casting isn't very good, but it is definitely improving. @SNM and Whiplash, if you read this: I think one of the best things that y'all can do to improve is to ladder, if you play the game yourselves. Most masters players can deliver better analysis than y'all can.
You do realize that  Whiplash himself is/was a professional player right?
Yeah, sick lack of knowledge about the person you're critiquing.
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And on top that's just off the bat.I go with the flow of the viewers cry but at what cost?
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On January 21 2013 12:26 wrathofconn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 12:16 Exigaet wrote:On January 21 2013 11:59 Alryk wrote:
From my perspective as a high masters player (protoss, but it doesn't matter:
The casting isn't very good, but it is definitely improving. @SNM and Whiplash, if you read this: I think one of the best things that y'all can do to improve is to ladder, if you play the game yourselves. Most masters players can deliver better analysis than y'all can.
You do realize that Whiplash himself is/was a professional player right? Yeah, sick lack of knowledge about the person you're critiquing.
Alyrk is right about SNM's game knowledge though. And since he often talks over whiplash...
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They are acceptable now I think. When I first tuned into I honestly think I muted and just turned off to watch korean vod later. But now I can listen and not be bothered.
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I've known whiplash for a while and he's always been pretty passionate about getting involved in this stuff. I really respect him for giving pretty much everything he has to finally have gotten the position he has now. However with that said, I still think he could use a bit of work on just general "casting practice". Perhaps more events, or online casting to really be able to articulate himself a bit better.
On the other hand... I personally have no idea who SNM is... but I wouldn't let that affect me if I enjoyed his casting. Unfortunately, he has quite a number of issues to work on ranging from talking over whiplash constantly to just talking about irrelevant things very often.
Basically, they just need to cast together a lot more to build up chemistry if they want to become a good casting duo. Until that point, I will opt into Korean stream as that's what I've been used to for the past who knows how many years anyway.
I really do wish the best of luck to Whiplash though, I'd really like to see him succeed in E-Sports after so many issues as a player.
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On January 21 2013 12:17 MetalPanda wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 12:09 Kyir wrote:
The refusal of SNM to play along with Whiplash's jokes is my biggest problem with their dynamic. They're not all great jokes in the first place but it's really jarring when something's set up and SNM just does not acknowledge it at all. That's basically one of the reasons I dislike Khaldor, just to say how much not playing along makes the casting awkward. There's just a lot to improve on. You might want me to be constructive here, but the truth is that an improvement in any aspect of casting will be very very welcomed. I've often considered muting the stream but that's pretty awkward, so I often just wait for the Korean vods (something I dislike having to do as I don't enjoy not understanding casts). In the end, just practice your casting, your chemistry and your speech/vocabulary.
The more casters work together the better their dynamic. Khaldor and Wolf originally were so-so, now I've even seen people say they're enjoying them as much as, or more than, Tastosis.
In the end chemistry, clarity and attentiveness are the three features of a caster I'm most drawn to. If it's interesting to listen to people talk together, if I can what they are saying and if they're paying attention to and discussing the game at play then I enjoy the casts. All of this comes with time and practice.
Some people seem to have a penchant for casters that are grandmaster players and thus can predict that an attack at 9:31 will occur with 3 siege tanks, 12 marines, 4 marauders and 3 medivacs after seeing a factory at 24 supply. I don't give a damn about that stuff at all tbh.
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Let me first say RIGHT OFF DA BAT
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You can be intelligent, good at starcraft, a good person, trying your best, and have plenty of other amazing qualities but there is one important thing to keep in mind: if you don't have a casting voice, you're not a caster.
I'm really sorry SNM, you have good game knowledge and everything but I can't stand your voice. You stutter, talk with a lisp constantly and have generally poor co-casting skills, you go from mumbling to screaming or coughing so loud you wake up my entire neighborhood. I can't take this shit anymore man, I skip classes to watch korean stream live so I don't have to listen to you on the VODs.
Sure you aren't getting a lot of help from the production, but when you talk for hours on end and expect people to keep listening, you need an attractive, confident voice and yours is anything but that. Sorry.
What you can work on: Co-casting skills. Whiplash must be so frustrated at times man, I want to punch you I feel so bad for him. EVERY FUCKING TIME he tries to make conversation about something or saying a joke and every time you're like "........... WHATEVER MAN LETHSSS FOCUS ON THE GAME OK JANGBI GETTING HITH FIRST PYLON HERE MAKING WORKERS YES" The fuck man? You're making it awkward for whiplash+all the viewers. I don't care it's not funny, if you don't play along to some extent you amplify how horrible the cast is.
What you can't work on: Your voice. Well maybe but it takes time. It's not a casting voice though. Nothing personal. You're just not made to be a caster. Sorry.
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I really hate to bash people, especially on public forums, but both these casters have a significant deficiency of game knowledge which makes their analysis and predictions really hard to listen to. There was a comment in a zvz cast, for example, that hatch first was popular on Ohana because the natural had a tight choke. They have also frequently made the amateur mistake of failing to differentiate between a build/strategy and a composition. And lastly, they both do not do a good job of recognizing and pointing out in their analysis the importance of early game maneuvers. What I mean is that they may describe a game as being decided by the main fight, ignoring the economic damage delt in the early game which swung the outcome of that fight.
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I think the best co-casters are the ones that involve one analytical caster and one entertainer. I do not feel like either Whiplash or SNM fills either of these positions at the moment. I think they both try to do a bit of both, but are not exceptional at either, so that is one way I think they can improve.
I favour the analytical caster, but I also like Husky-style casting too. I would like to see each of them pursue one of these, or practice by taking turns focusing on being analytical or entertaining.
I have to say, they have been improving. Sometimes they still make mistakes but overall, I think they are showing good improvement and I want to encourage them. Their hardwork is making a noticeable difference. They need to continue working on their game-knowledge outside of practising their casting. Casting will come naturally the more they do it, but game-knowledge may require more than just casting more.
There is one specific thing that really bugs me though. I would really appreciate it if they stopped speaking as if they know what the players are thinking, and then saying their thoughts in first-person. Often times they are wrong, other times inaccurate, and even at the very best, there is still no way for them to be 100% sure what the players are thinking.
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I like them. Was a bit rocky at first and still is but they are improving rapidly. Given time to develop their chemistry I believe they will be quite enjoyable. Plus, it's always a bonus to have a korean/english bi-lingual on commentary for events in Korea.
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On January 21 2013 12:11 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
They're acceptable, but need a lot of work. Certainly not Painuser/HD or Moletrap (sc2 version) bad though xD
Painuser is great. I don't get why everyone hated his casting... Out of all the full time casters he was (and still would be) the best (game skill) caster easily and it made his analysis amazing. Really disappointing that he seemed to get dropped by IPL because of the community just because he was slightly monotone or something. I can't even remember what peoples complaints with him were.
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I like Whiplash's jokes, am I the only one?
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On January 21 2013 12:41 Zenbrez wrote:
I like Whiplash's jokes, am I the only one?
I like them both. Sure their analysis is not top-notch but I feel like they're improving and they are good enough for me to not switch.
I mostly watch SPL for entertainment, not learning or something so it's fine for me.
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On January 21 2013 12:16 Exigaet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 11:59 Alryk wrote:
From my perspective as a high masters player (protoss, but it doesn't matter:
The casting isn't very good, but it is definitely improving. @SNM and Whiplash, if you read this: I think one of the best things that y'all can do to improve is to ladder, if you play the game yourselves. Most masters players can deliver better analysis than y'all can.
You do realize that Whiplash himself is/was a professional player right?
no I didn't, how long ago? I clarified at the bottom that whiplash is good, but snm is the one who's analysis is mostly lacking. If I didn't say that, I meant it. 
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On January 21 2013 12:26 wrathofconn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 12:16 Exigaet wrote:On January 21 2013 11:59 Alryk wrote:
From my perspective as a high masters player (protoss, but it doesn't matter:
The casting isn't very good, but it is definitely improving. @SNM and Whiplash, if you read this: I think one of the best things that y'all can do to improve is to ladder, if you play the game yourselves. Most masters players can deliver better analysis than y'all can.
You do realize that Whiplash himself is/was a professional player right? Yeah, sick lack of knowledge about the person you're critiquing.
calling someone a professional player who was high masters about a year ago is pretty aweful.
i think whiplash is kind of ok, SNM has rly a lot of work to do. im not sure if he could gain enough knowledge whatsoever, whenever he tries to analyze crucial points of a game, i get so incredibly angry, because most average master players would know better in almost all cases.
why do you try to analyze if you have no clue what ur talking about? try to do the play by play parts and give them some flair, like TB does. this is the best he could do for now
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EPT
