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On January 21 2013 13:21 WhiteSatin wrote:
I actually asked this question before in 2 more topics I believe, but no one gave me an answer so I hope somebody can help me now.
I remember that when TL/EG announced they were gonna cover pro league they also announced TB, mr.bitter, TLO etc. as casters - then very soon it switched over to these guys.
I was simply wondering why ? Can someone enlighten me please ?
Anyway my opinion is that they need to improve their game knowledge quite a bit as right now (especially for Terran) they call stuff wrong lots of times. Also that very 'fake' GG yelling at the end was kinda bothering me, I think the GG should be called with an honest spirit: if you were excited right before it happens then you can yell it, otherwise no need to go for this fake excitement.
Also sometimes they get into "personal" talk of stuff we -the viewers- are not aware and that's not good either.
Overall it's a good casting, I don't dislike it but I'm not a great fan either. I think they need lots of work to do before it becomes very nice. If I had to give a grade it'd be 6 out of 10.
Cheers
OGN was planning on an English cast. Kespa swooped in and said "sorry, we sold the rights to this IEG outfit". IEG said "haha, suckers, only, uh, we're not ready yet. Nevermind on that whole english-cast thing for the first week or so. Also, BTW, we're apparently the same folks as spotv."
At that point EG & TL were all "hells naw, we busted our ass and did who knows how many illicit favors to Kespa execs to break into this league, and you're going to totally botch the opener for our legions of fans & potentially ruin this entire business venture? We'll cast this sucker ourselves."
Then EG & TL proceeded to do just that.
IEG, figuring it would actually do something with the rights it paid for yelled out "Hey english-speaking bitches, come work for us!"
And all the established english-speaking bitches were all "screw you, we have good, stable jobs. We're not gonna dis everyone we've worked with over the past year to move to cold-ass Korea for a few crumbs."
This made IEG sad, because doing stuff is hards. But then came SUPERNOVAMAN and he went up to IEG and said (in Korean) "I cans cast stuffs!" And IEG said "ok." Then SUPERNOVAMAN said "and I know this one dude." So IEG called the one dude and asked if he wanted to cast. And Whiplash said "sure."
This made IEG happy, 'cause now it was their time to shine. They took their Proleague video feed back from EG & TL, and said to SUPERNOVAMAN "go now, and hypnotize the barbarian hordes using their strange words."
And SUPERNOVAMAN did speak much English while casting Proleague, and much agony and anguish was felt by all.
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Aside from other criticisms that others here have mentioned, I also feel that they are not really connected to the scene in general. I get the vibe that they were huge bw fans who jumped at the chance to work with the KESPA legends, and hence end up focusing too much on bw history references rather than sc2 ones. For example I doubt that they follow foreign tourneys at all as shown by that rather cringe-worthy Ohana mishap. This leads to them not sounding genuine enough for my liking.
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they seem like calm sports casters to me, while d9 is like dick vitale
I enjoy em all
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Lots of different opinions here.
I'm really enjoying the casts honestly. I don't really like whiplash, but its just a personal preference. Too bland for my taste.
SNM on the other hand, is fantastic, imo. You can tell he has a lot of passion, usually provides good analytical commentary, he's always upbeat, knows the BW scene very well and shares the info with the viewers, and on top of that knows korean so he can translate shit we'd otherwise miss. I think most of the SNM criticism is unwarranted, and the pros far outweigh the cons.
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I get the impression Whiplash is the more "audiogenic" caster, while SNM is the guy who seems kind of random and bubbly. I haven't paid enough attention to PL to really nail down who's who. Probably because of commercial spam I end up just reloading the whole thing 20 minutes after a match ends.
But anyways, I feel like SNM is like me. Someone capable of understanding what's going on, but perhaps who feels more capable than he actually is. For example, when I listen to someone like Artosis who can explain things beautifully, I follow along quite well and find myself agreeing most of the time. It's like how the Voice of Saruman makes you feel good for agreeing. But when you're on your own, you realize you're just a slightly above average man of Rohan. You've got great blond hair and you've killed a lot of Orcs in battle, but you're not really sure about the bigger picture of events. Similarly, at best I'd probably suck at putting my explanation of what's going on into words and coherently presenting it to an audience.
SNM is a little better than I'd be, but that's just not good enough for the most prestigious league in the world besides GSL (and that's arguable). I believe people can improve at almost anything, but I also don't want to wait this entire season (i.e., all rounds) to remain as is, so I really hope that the casters put up or shut up. In the past I may have been more sympathetic, but a recent hire over me at work by someone who is relatively very bad has eroded my desire to see mediocrity rewarded. For something like PL, the casters really should be the best, not a work in progress.
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SNM's voice is brutal, its like listening to someone drag their nails across a chalkboard. The fact that he doesn't really know his shit and they kinda argue/bicker during casts put a damper on PL for me.
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On January 21 2013 13:21 WhiteSatin wrote:
I actually asked this question before in 2 more topics I believe, but no one gave me an answer so I hope somebody can help me now.
I remember that when TL/EG announced they were gonna cover pro league they also announced TB, mr.bitter, TLO etc. as casters - then very soon it switched over to these guys.
I was simply wondering why ? Can someone enlighten me please ?
Anyway my opinion is that they need to improve their game knowledge quite a bit as right now (especially for Terran) they call stuff wrong lots of times. Also that very 'fake' GG yelling at the end was kinda bothering me, I think the GG should be called with an honest spirit: if you were excited right before it happens then you can yell it, otherwise no need to go for this fake excitement.
Also sometimes they get into "personal" talk of stuff we -the viewers- are not aware and that's not good either.
Overall it's a good casting, I don't dislike it but I'm not a great fan either. I think they need lots of work to do before it becomes very nice. If I had to give a grade it'd be 6 out of 10.
Cheers
Kespa had told EGTL that the broadcasting rights were temporary. There were many problems introduced by casting from another country, and i'm sure kespa had high interests in finding someone who could translate korean, and eventually want to have their casters in the studio. I think EGTL just didn't realize how short term it would be and made a big deal out of it when announcing it. Seems like a case of the whole "lost in translation" thing 
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I think Whiplash has potential and can improve over time if he spends time researching players, maps and playstyles. He also calls many builds wrong over and over again though some part of that is actually the kespa guys going for strange builds. His voice quite pleasant to listen to and never really gets annoying. And if I feel like he is reading the game totally wrong I can ignore him just fine which is a good thing. Until he gets the knowledge he can do the play by play part. Overall he has a solid foundation on which he can improve.
SNM on the other hand... Even if he manages to get the proper knowledge of the game he still has one hell of an annoying voice. His inability to work with his co-caster and the poor sense for timings are barriers aswell.
A fair amount of players are knowledgable enough to understand the builds of the players and only want something to fill the silence. SNM is neither someone who can analyze a game well enough to tell me something new and exciting, nor can he fill the silence in a pleasant way.
Their cast is littered with gems like:
"Nice focus firing of the marines with his immortal" (happened due to the player not microing his immortal at al)
"If he doesn't hold this push he will have problems coming back later in the game"
And many many more.
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They're fine for now imo,but like all casters they could use some improvement and learn to be better with each other while casting.
I never had a problem understanding either of them and SNM has excellent english
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There's just no symmetry between the two of them for one thing. They don't play off of each other as much as they either repeat or disregard completely what the other one says.
Neither of them are good at portraying or building excitement in each match. I've seen matches casted by them involving incredibly cool battles and engagements only to have next to no battle commentary associated with it. Compare this complete lack of ANYTHING to a battle being cast by Totalbiscuit or someone similar and you'll notice why the complete lack of play by play action calling takes away from the game.
Third problem, while they might have a decent understanding of the players in Proleague, their actual game knowledge or at least their ability to articulate it is well... underwhelming to put it nicely.
When you combine the fact that they bring neither analysis nor play by play to the game you begin to wonder what they are actually there for other than just offering up proleague statistics which could be better served by on screen prompts like the ones GSL use.
I'm an aspiring caster myself, I know how hard it can be sometimes and how much work is involved but I don't think I've heard even amateurs that make me cringe as badly as these two do. I honestly feel sorry for them when I'm listening to them because it just sounds to me as though they don't actually enjoy what they are doing.
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They have alot of awkward moments. Alot of bad jokes. Lots of cringe worthy moments overall.
However, I really like how SNM can just offer on the fly translations from the korean casters and interviews. The analysis is decent and their knowledge about the players is good.
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They're okay, but some of the things they say irk me, like the innovation bashing of last night. Not going to say they are unwatchable, its its nice that there is at least SOME english casting, but yeah they can work on their chemistry for starters.
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Don't think they work  Nothing against either of them individually, but the chemistry just isn't there.. They just contradict what the other person is saying way too often.. If a caster makes a mistake the other should play it off and support them. These guys just flat out say 'No, this is whats going on'. Kinda puts me off...
Again nothing against them individually.. I use to watch snm when he started out doing bw, and like others say I love the resource of having on the spot korean translation. Worth a bunch.
That being said, I'd like to see them stick with it a little longer though to see if they can find their proper roles in the cast.
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Anyone noticed they started arguing in their recent cast?
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On January 21 2013 14:11 forumtext wrote:
Anyone noticed they started arguing in their recent cast?
I missed that, over what?
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Whiplash is awesome, but snm takes a year just to articulate what he just thought happened to the point it is no longer relevant. If he can better articulate his words, it would be better.
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I think they should keep SNM for translations, but remove him ASAP as a caster. He argues with Whiplash and is super rude and contradicting it is frustrating to listen to. Give Whiplash a better coaster and use SNM for translations and we will be good.
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Team liquid's older forum tend to have a very strong BW bias. If they were casting for any other tournament I doubt the casters would have even the little support they have now. I usually do not like bashing casters but it shocks me that they would have people defending them.
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For what it's worth, I gave up on the casters and began to watch the Korean Broadcast exclusively even if I don't understand them. I suggest the same for those who cannot stand the current english casting.
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On January 21 2013 14:21 jacksonlee wrote:
For what it's worth, I gave up on the casters and began to watch the Korean Broadcast exclusively even if I don't understand them. I suggest the same for those who cannot stand the current english casting.
Indeed 
It sucks because I like SNM and Whiplash as people but they just seriously have no synergy and do terrible at casting PL together.
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EPT
