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This is definitely good, and I think it's something that they should definitely refer back to, hopefully assuming that this thread doesn't get closed.
From my perspective as a high masters player (protoss, but it doesn't matter:
The casting isn't very good, but it is definitely improving. @SNM and Whiplash, if you read this: I think one of the best things that y'all can do to improve is to ladder, if you play the game yourselves. Most masters players can deliver better analysis than y'all can. I don't say that to be mean, but rather to be honest. And like I said, I can definitely tell that y'all are trying to improve. Part of the game sense that makes progamers like Grubby such good casters is that they play the game so much. You can't simply read up on it, watch streams, etc. to get an understanding of the game; you have to play. And while I don't know exactly what league y'all are etc, the more you play, the more you should come to understand exactly what's happening.
The reason that I brought that up is partially the first thing that I see that is flawed. A lot of the time, y'alls predictions or "what they should do" about a game is flawed, especially in the beginning of the game. If you don't understand enough about how to analyze the game, then study it in the background, but while you're in the game just have play by play. Think casters like Totalbiscuit or CatsPajamas in the past. They weren't the most analytical casters (by self admission, at least TB I remember him saying it once); but people love them because they have excellent play by play. Often times the best casting duos are composed of a play by play expert and an analytical expert (Tastosis, Apollo + Biscuit, Bitterdam), and people love them.
I sincerely hope that y'all are watching Tastosis (and others, but especially them) cast Code S. That will be the best place for y'all to expand on what you're learning in game, as well as how to deliver it. Y'all come off (to me) as trying to be analytical, and failing. That's the main reason that you get a lot of criticism imo. Talking about what you think a player is going to do, but being 100% wrong because you were trying to bluff confidence doesn't work. Just go with the play by play for now until you can talk about how builds interact.
Next point: learn about other leagues
Learn about the other leagues. This will be pretty short because I only really remember one example, but it comes up in one of the ZvZ's where SNM (I think) talked about how nobody goes mutas in SPL, so it will be interesting to see what will happen or something along the lines of that (I think it was Stephano vs. somebody). Look into the GSL, like I said. Leenock and some others are really, really proficient at Muta ZvZ. Learn how those games play out, and talk about it. It will again help with your understanding of SPL and the games there.
Next point: Supply isn't everything
This is one of the biggest issues, part of it coming from not being able to analyze the game properly. I can't name something specific, but one of the most annoying things that y'all have done (in my eyes) is calling the game based on supply. Looking at a zerg who's 40 supply up on Roach/Ling doesn't mean the game is over (unless its ZvZ). I wish I could think of a specific example, and I'll watch y'all cast tonight, and if I see anything, I'll update this post. Just remember that there are upgrades, production, economy, etc. and everything is a factor. If somebody is down 20 supply, but down 50 workers, they have a huge timing window to do some damage. Y'all have definitely made that mistake, where somebody has no workers and you say the game is over, and then have to backtrack when they leverage their army and win. I'll update with something specific if I see it tonight.
Final point: Work on your pronunciation?
This is also going to be short, and I'll update it tonight, because it happens every night (SNM particularly). Work on your pronunciation. Casting is like an essay - try not to repeat phrases every 2 seconds. I don't remember exact phrases, but I know it's happened, and I'll post an example when I hear one.
Secondly - Try and think about how your words are going to flow as you talk. This is definitely improving from the beginning of the year, but keep working on it. Occasionally y'all start to say something and it just doesn't make sense.
I've been watching from the beginning, and occasionally I switch audio just to hear analysis from a masters player who streams himself casting. Y'all are improving for sure, and I'm glad to see it. You're definitely putting in the work; just keep it up. I don't hate your casting, it just needs improvement.
TL;DR for y'all:
1) Ladder more
2) Watch GSL
3) Watch GSL vods
4) Listen to other liked casters
5) Work on pronunciation
Thank y'all for casting SPL, and I'll still be tuning in tonight. It is certainly not a cast that is "so bad that I can't watch" so please keep improving for us and thank you!
Edit: Like others have said, I prefer whiplash to SNM.
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Echoing the same sentiment as others, I kinda like whiplash, but not so much SMN.
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I think their casting is OK. but there is certainly room for improvements.
I would like them to stop proclaiming 'XX is gonna take the game' every 2 minutes. A lot of the time you are wrong. and that makes you look like an amateur.
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On January 21 2013 11:58 nmetasch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 11:54 faiza wrote:
No option for 'I dislike it currently, but could see myself liking the casts more as they continue to improve', but that would be my vote. Sure, they've gotten better, but they still have a long way to go. Thats kinda what I was going for with the needs improvement option lol. Like a middle ground.
haha, obviously 3 options was tl;dr.
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I find them both completely awful.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On January 21 2013 11:48 URLateral wrote:then you should see a doctor, because I think something is seriously wrong with you
So as soon someone don't have the same opinion than you mean they have to see a doctor. I think you're the one who need to see one
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Whiplash is carrying the casting duo undoubtedly. My dislike of them has dropped down less as time goes on, but they are still is a below average casting pair.
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I get the feeling snm will get better as he gets more confident. He just never seems very relaxed or confident. Whiplash is a boss 
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Just wondering, have these 2 casters had much casting experience before this? I haven't heard of them at all.
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whiplash is good, but snm needs huge improvements... needs to have clearer casting voice as well as better knowledge of the game
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The refusal of SNM to play along with Whiplash's jokes is my biggest problem with their dynamic. They're not all great jokes in the first place but it's really jarring when something's set up and SNM just does not acknowledge it at all.
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On January 21 2013 11:59 MisterFred wrote:
has either a speech impediment or a super-strong accent that's simply unacceptable for a professional broadcaster of anything
A lot of people are saying this, but can you pinpoint what exactly do you mean? I am asking because I don't quite understand what you mean - I have no problems of understanding him and english is not even my first language.
On January 21 2013 11:59 MisterFred wrote:
fakes emotion (sudden gg's having no relation to the tone of the previous cast).
He stopped this a long long time ago.
On January 21 2013 12:02 Shinespark wrote:
I find them both completely awful.
So constructive!
EDIT: My opinion is that Whiplash is really good and SNM needs to work on few things. I dont have problems understanding him, but it annoys me sometimes that they don't "get" the jokes of the other guy. That will come with more they cast though. Also he should let Whiplash do the analysis probably, but tbh I dont even listen to analysis too much, I have eyes and can see what's happening myself.
Other than that I think their biggest problem is that they are not actually in the game so they cannot doublecheck whatever they are talking about.
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They're acceptable, but need a lot of work. Certainly not Painuser/HD or Moletrap (sc2 version) bad though xD
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I hope SNM and Whiplash read this-
I should start by saying that I really appreciate the English casting, as well as the korean translations offered. I also want to let you guys know that you have been steadily improving over the weeks, and casting for an audience can be a lot harder than people seem to think, and in general I think you guys do an excellent job. There is room for improvement, but the same could be said of anyone. As long as you guys are actively taking steps to improve your job (which it seems you are, because I watch all of your casts and love how much you guys have improved over the weeks) than I think the criticism and negativity should be kept to a minimum.
Honestly, a person who is fluent in Korean AND English AND is willing to cast Starcraft games deserves a lot of credit in my book, even if his English doesn't roll off the tongue perfectly.
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SNM Is the worst caster I have ever heard whiplash is ok get rid of SNM please
User was temp banned for this post.
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IMO, the casters lack passion when they are casting. They don't bring in excitement and they are always speaking at the same volume.
Casting/analytic skill-wise, I think both of them are okay but definitely need improvement.
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On January 21 2013 11:59 Alryk wrote:
From my perspective as a high masters player (protoss, but it doesn't matter:
The casting isn't very good, but it is definitely improving. @SNM and Whiplash, if you read this: I think one of the best things that y'all can do to improve is to ladder, if you play the game yourselves. Most masters players can deliver better analysis than y'all can.
You do realize that  Whiplash himself is/was a professional player right?
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I think both are definitely putting in 100%. I can tell they both want to improve and want to deliver a good viewing experience. They do have room for improvement. This is whiplash's first casting gig so it's understandable. It will only take time. I also think they will need to get used to casting with each other to be able to create good flow/excitement throughout the games without stumbling over each other. Give it a few months and i'm sure their commentary will be 100% better.
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whiplash is Okay, but i hate how SNM often likes to contradict what whiplash is saying even though whiplash may be right.
Its as if they are not on the same team....
we need 2 casters who are casting together... not against each other please.
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EPT
