• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:04
CEST 09:04
KST 16:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent8Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues11LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments2Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris73
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues What happened to Singapore/Brazil servers? Production Quality - Maestros of the Game Vs RSL 2
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast
Brood War
General
FlaSh on ACS Winners being in ASL ASL20 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Polish World Championship 2025 20-21 September [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group B [ASL20] Ro16 Group A BWCL Season 63 Announcement [IPSL] ISPL Season 1 Winter Qualis and Info!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Collective Intelligence: Tea…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2017 users

SPL Casters (SNM/Whiplash) Appreciation/Criticism - Page 2

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 22 23 24 Next All
Alryk
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States2718 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-21 03:03:11
January 21 2013 02:59 GMT
#21
This is definitely good, and I think it's something that they should definitely refer back to, hopefully assuming that this thread doesn't get closed.

From my perspective as a high masters player (protoss, but it doesn't matter:

The casting isn't very good, but it is definitely improving. @SNM and Whiplash, if you read this: I think one of the best things that y'all can do to improve is to ladder, if you play the game yourselves. Most masters players can deliver better analysis than y'all can. I don't say that to be mean, but rather to be honest. And like I said, I can definitely tell that y'all are trying to improve. Part of the game sense that makes progamers like Grubby such good casters is that they play the game so much. You can't simply read up on it, watch streams, etc. to get an understanding of the game; you have to play. And while I don't know exactly what league y'all are etc, the more you play, the more you should come to understand exactly what's happening.

The reason that I brought that up is partially the first thing that I see that is flawed. A lot of the time, y'alls predictions or "what they should do" about a game is flawed, especially in the beginning of the game. If you don't understand enough about how to analyze the game, then study it in the background, but while you're in the game just have play by play. Think casters like Totalbiscuit or CatsPajamas in the past. They weren't the most analytical casters (by self admission, at least TB I remember him saying it once); but people love them because they have excellent play by play. Often times the best casting duos are composed of a play by play expert and an analytical expert (Tastosis, Apollo + Biscuit, Bitterdam), and people love them.

I sincerely hope that y'all are watching Tastosis (and others, but especially them) cast Code S. That will be the best place for y'all to expand on what you're learning in game, as well as how to deliver it. Y'all come off (to me) as trying to be analytical, and failing. That's the main reason that you get a lot of criticism imo. Talking about what you think a player is going to do, but being 100% wrong because you were trying to bluff confidence doesn't work. Just go with the play by play for now until you can talk about how builds interact.

Next point: learn about other leagues


Learn about the other leagues. This will be pretty short because I only really remember one example, but it comes up in one of the ZvZ's where SNM (I think) talked about how nobody goes mutas in SPL, so it will be interesting to see what will happen or something along the lines of that (I think it was Stephano vs. somebody). Look into the GSL, like I said. Leenock and some others are really, really proficient at Muta ZvZ. Learn how those games play out, and talk about it. It will again help with your understanding of SPL and the games there.

Next point: Supply isn't everything


This is one of the biggest issues, part of it coming from not being able to analyze the game properly. I can't name something specific, but one of the most annoying things that y'all have done (in my eyes) is calling the game based on supply. Looking at a zerg who's 40 supply up on Roach/Ling doesn't mean the game is over (unless its ZvZ). I wish I could think of a specific example, and I'll watch y'all cast tonight, and if I see anything, I'll update this post. Just remember that there are upgrades, production, economy, etc. and everything is a factor. If somebody is down 20 supply, but down 50 workers, they have a huge timing window to do some damage. Y'all have definitely made that mistake, where somebody has no workers and you say the game is over, and then have to backtrack when they leverage their army and win. I'll update with something specific if I see it tonight.

Final point: Work on your pronunciation?


This is also going to be short, and I'll update it tonight, because it happens every night (SNM particularly). Work on your pronunciation. Casting is like an essay - try not to repeat phrases every 2 seconds. I don't remember exact phrases, but I know it's happened, and I'll post an example when I hear one.

Secondly - Try and think about how your words are going to flow as you talk. This is definitely improving from the beginning of the year, but keep working on it. Occasionally y'all start to say something and it just doesn't make sense.

I've been watching from the beginning, and occasionally I switch audio just to hear analysis from a masters player who streams himself casting. Y'all are improving for sure, and I'm glad to see it. You're definitely putting in the work; just keep it up. I don't hate your casting, it just needs improvement.

TL;DR for y'all:
1) Ladder more
2) Watch GSL
3) Watch GSL vods
4) Listen to other liked casters
5) Work on pronunciation

Thank y'all for casting SPL, and I'll still be tuning in tonight. It is certainly not a cast that is "so bad that I can't watch" so please keep improving for us and thank you!

Edit: Like others have said, I prefer whiplash to SNM.
Team Liquid, IM, ViOlet!
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
January 21 2013 03:00 GMT
#22
Echoing the same sentiment as others, I kinda like whiplash, but not so much SMN.
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
forumtext
Profile Joined September 2011
575 Posts
January 21 2013 03:01 GMT
#23
I think their casting is OK. but there is certainly room for improvements.

I would like them to stop proclaiming 'XX is gonna take the game' every 2 minutes. A lot of the time you are wrong. and that makes you look like an amateur.
faiza
Profile Joined June 2012
United States451 Posts
January 21 2013 03:01 GMT
#24
On January 21 2013 11:58 nmetasch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2013 11:54 faiza wrote:
No option for 'I dislike it currently, but could see myself liking the casts more as they continue to improve', but that would be my vote. Sure, they've gotten better, but they still have a long way to go.


Thats kinda what I was going for with the needs improvement option lol. Like a middle ground.


haha, obviously 3 options was tl;dr.
Shinespark
Profile Joined June 2011
Chile843 Posts
January 21 2013 03:02 GMT
#25
I find them both completely awful.

User was temp banned for this post.
"I, for one, welcome our new Korean overlords."
Toads
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1795 Posts
January 21 2013 03:02 GMT
#26
On January 21 2013 11:48 URLateral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2013 11:46 triforks wrote:
love the PL casts!

then you should see a doctor, because I think something is seriously wrong with you

So as soon someone don't have the same opinion than you mean they have to see a doctor. I think you're the one who need to see one
(。◕ ω ◕。) Beer Time !!!! (。◕ ω ◕。)
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
January 21 2013 03:03 GMT
#27
Just work on the puns...
yoshi245
Profile Joined May 2011
United States2969 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-21 03:05:36
January 21 2013 03:05 GMT
#28
Whiplash is carrying the casting duo undoubtedly. My dislike of them has dropped down less as time goes on, but they are still is a below average casting pair.
"Numbers speak about the past, not the present." -Thorzain
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15694 Posts
January 21 2013 03:06 GMT
#29
I get the feeling snm will get better as he gets more confident. He just never seems very relaxed or confident. Whiplash is a boss
Omnidroid
Profile Joined November 2011
New Zealand214 Posts
January 21 2013 03:08 GMT
#30
Just wondering, have these 2 casters had much casting experience before this? I haven't heard of them at all.
stew_
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada239 Posts
January 21 2013 03:08 GMT
#31
whiplash is good, but snm needs huge improvements... needs to have clearer casting voice as well as better knowledge of the game
자연속에 내가 있다! 운!지!
Kyir
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1047 Posts
January 21 2013 03:09 GMT
#32
The refusal of SNM to play along with Whiplash's jokes is my biggest problem with their dynamic. They're not all great jokes in the first place but it's really jarring when something's set up and SNM just does not acknowledge it at all.
Ammanas
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Slovakia2166 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-21 03:15:30
January 21 2013 03:09 GMT
#33
On January 21 2013 11:59 MisterFred wrote:
has either a speech impediment or a super-strong accent that's simply unacceptable for a professional broadcaster of anything


A lot of people are saying this, but can you pinpoint what exactly do you mean? I am asking because I don't quite understand what you mean - I have no problems of understanding him and english is not even my first language.

On January 21 2013 11:59 MisterFred wrote:
fakes emotion (sudden gg's having no relation to the tone of the previous cast).


He stopped this a long long time ago.

On January 21 2013 12:02 Shinespark wrote:
I find them both completely awful.


So constructive!

EDIT: My opinion is that Whiplash is really good and SNM needs to work on few things. I dont have problems understanding him, but it annoys me sometimes that they don't "get" the jokes of the other guy. That will come with more they cast though. Also he should let Whiplash do the analysis probably, but tbh I dont even listen to analysis too much, I have eyes and can see what's happening myself.

Other than that I think their biggest problem is that they are not actually in the game so they cannot doublecheck whatever they are talking about.
JangBi forever <3 || Classic! herO! Rain! Zest! | Rogue! Hydra! Solar! | Fantasy! Cure! Reality! Sorry! Journey!
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
January 21 2013 03:11 GMT
#34
They're acceptable, but need a lot of work. Certainly not Painuser/HD or Moletrap (sc2 version) bad though xD
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
MetalxStorm
Profile Joined January 2012
United States71 Posts
January 21 2013 03:11 GMT
#35
I hope SNM and Whiplash read this-

I should start by saying that I really appreciate the English casting, as well as the korean translations offered. I also want to let you guys know that you have been steadily improving over the weeks, and casting for an audience can be a lot harder than people seem to think, and in general I think you guys do an excellent job. There is room for improvement, but the same could be said of anyone. As long as you guys are actively taking steps to improve your job (which it seems you are, because I watch all of your casts and love how much you guys have improved over the weeks) than I think the criticism and negativity should be kept to a minimum.

Honestly, a person who is fluent in Korean AND English AND is willing to cast Starcraft games deserves a lot of credit in my book, even if his English doesn't roll off the tongue perfectly.
The Darkness Rides
URLateral
Profile Joined October 2012
275 Posts
January 21 2013 03:13 GMT
#36
SNM Is the worst caster I have ever heard whiplash is ok get rid of SNM please

User was temp banned for this post.
ian952
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada124 Posts
January 21 2013 03:15 GMT
#37
IMO, the casters lack passion when they are casting. They don't bring in excitement and they are always speaking at the same volume.

Casting/analytic skill-wise, I think both of them are okay but definitely need improvement.
...
Exigaet
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada355 Posts
January 21 2013 03:16 GMT
#38
On January 21 2013 11:59 Alryk wrote:

From my perspective as a high masters player (protoss, but it doesn't matter:

The casting isn't very good, but it is definitely improving. @SNM and Whiplash, if you read this: I think one of the best things that y'all can do to improve is to ladder, if you play the game yourselves. Most masters players can deliver better analysis than y'all can.


You do realize that (P)Whiplash himself is/was a professional player right?
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
January 21 2013 03:16 GMT
#39
I think both are definitely putting in 100%. I can tell they both want to improve and want to deliver a good viewing experience. They do have room for improvement. This is whiplash's first casting gig so it's understandable. It will only take time. I also think they will need to get used to casting with each other to be able to create good flow/excitement throughout the games without stumbling over each other. Give it a few months and i'm sure their commentary will be 100% better.
TL+ Member
eecs4ever
Profile Joined July 2010
United States106 Posts
January 21 2013 03:16 GMT
#40
whiplash is Okay, but i hate how SNM often likes to contradict what whiplash is saying even though whiplash may be right.
Its as if they are not on the same team....

we need 2 casters who are casting together... not against each other please.
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. SO REMEMBER TO SCOUT ! -Sun Tzu
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 22 23 24 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 57m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
CosmosSc2 41
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 656
Tasteless 278
Leta 176
ggaemo 58
sSak 51
ToSsGirL 39
Dewaltoss 31
Bale 18
Noble 15
Icarus 6
[ Show more ]
Light 0
Dota 2
BananaSlamJamma6
League of Legends
JimRising 715
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K826
semphis_47
shoxiejesuss0
Other Games
summit1g6314
shahzam1060
WinterStarcraft617
C9.Mang0299
NeuroSwarm35
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick532
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1325
• Lourlo1068
• Stunt441
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
2h 57m
BeSt vs Alone
Queen vs Bisu
Kung Fu Cup
4h 57m
TaeJa vs Classic
Creator vs SHIN
Rogue vs MaxPax
PiGosaur Monday
16h 57m
Kung Fu Cup
1d 4h
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
OSC
1d 8h
OSC
1d 16h
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs SHIN
Reynor vs Zoun
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Maru
[ Show More ]
Online Event
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
BSL Team Wars
3 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
ShoWTimE vs Classic
Clem vs herO
Serral vs Bunny
Reynor vs Zoun
Cosmonarchy
4 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
[BSL 2025] Weekly
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Snow vs Sharp
Jaedong vs Mini
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Copa Latinoamericana 4
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21: BSL Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.