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School Shooting in Ohio - 3 Dead, 2 Injured - Page 5
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As always, with topics as complex and sensitive as these, please take a minute to think before you post. If this thread is to stay open the following must be avoided: - Disrespect to any of the parties involved (be it the bullies or bullied) The above includes: - Justifying or glorifying death or suicide as deserved - Disregarding or belittling the circumstances that give rise to these situations There's a reason why these discussions are always so sensitive. There are extremes on either side of the discussion that are disrespectful and narrow-minded in their own ways; the best approach is to carefully consider the other side before posting Warnings and bans will be handed out for unreasoned and insensitive statements. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Spieltor
327 Posts
On February 28 2012 04:26 TwoToneTerran wrote: Bullies are largely the product of poor parenting and unhealthy environment in and outside of home, all of which can be fixed. Just because they were doing something unconscionably wrong does not mean they deserved death or injury. no, bullying is a product of humanity, and alpha and beta types of people. This has been observed in chickens as well, hence the term "pecking order". What countries right now are trying to bully what other countries? there will always be bullies just as there will always be people who emit the pheromones and body language and behavior saying "everyone bully me". If you've looked at twins who've been separated for life, they dance the same way to the same music that they've never heard before and are being tested with. the will to bully or the target sign on your back to be bullied is genetically determined. Id - "but everyone has free will/choice." Going to say that personality traits are not based on genetics even thought we've proven this to be true? Traits such as aggression and whatnot? If thats not true, how come basic genetic manipulation in dogs proves it via simple breeding procedures to produce dogs that are violent and muscular but stupid and easily trainable? The same thing happens in horses. Id - "but humans aren't animals/have some special unidentifiable spark in them that makes them superior to other mammals and ignore genetic reality." You're an idiot, Id. bullies are the product of genetics, just like sociopaths and antisocials are the products of genetics creating a different brain structure that greatly diminishes or completely eliminates empathy and other similar emotions, although they can sure fake it. I just loathe people spouting off about "bullies are created by upbringing" when bullies and victims are both created by genetics. Why do you think it's always the "nice quiet one" who gets bullied? because he's beta, he exhibits the body language and emits the pheromones that say "kick me", because genetics creates his personality type and his hormones All the anecdotal stuff about "beta/alpha" is based on intrinsic laws of biology that we can casually observe and understand, yet when science can start pointing fingers to the incriminating genes, we have this social pull towards "bullies were made and this cycle could end if only we did something more". Yes, we can do something more, but the cycle will never end and bullies will always exist because of genes. You're going to have to breed out aggression by neutering all "physical" people, such as athletes of physical sports, who are sublimating their aggressive tendencies into socially acceptable forms of behavior, and army people, who are doing a less acceptable sublimation if you think war and killing is wrong, and it only leads to more war and killing (as ghandi seemed to deeply believe in, or jesus, or buddha, etc etc), and only allow breeding between the "betas", or use drugs to blunt the aggressive nature in people so they do not act wrongly and cause problems, and/or genetically modify babies, either in secret or with parental consent, so that they become less aggressive over time and eventually weed it out that way. You could GM babies to produce sperm and ova, once they become old enough to produce such, that will turn off genes that relate to aggression and such, which would have similar effect as manipulating sperm and ova themselves while trying to fertilize an egg. Anyway, noone watched the movie Serenity, I take it? On February 28 2012 05:19 Blasterion wrote: It's fortunate that only bullies were involved and the innocent and people irrelevant to the conflict were unharmed. its fortunate some people died and not others, eh? | ||
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tMomiji
United States1115 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:18 Mark Henry wrote: That was a mean thing to say, maybe I should come shoot you? How exactly was that mean...at all? Are you just here to troll everyone? | ||
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Kamais Ookin
Canada591 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:17 Charger wrote: Bullying is the justification to shoot them, as a last resort anyways. Everyone is different, some can take the prolonged bullying and get fucked in life but not shoot bullies, others reach their peak and snap. The onus is on the SCHOOL to give a FUCK about the bullying going on. He didn't say he was fine or that everyone should be fine after being bullied. He said there is no justification for killing or attempting to kill someone who bullied you. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:10 OmiDeLta wrote: Heh. I never said my opinion was formed on a good basis, only that it was formed. I don't believe that "children are not bad people" - I'm sorry I just don't; for many, many, MANY reasons that I will not go into here - but I never said I didn't sympathize with the dead child at all. I only said I sympathize with the shooter FIRST, then the victim. Twisted? Maybe, and I don't expect everyone - or anyone really - to agree. It's just purely how I feel. No child deserves to die but no child has the right to push their feelings on to another like that, no matter what their home life is like. If the child doesn't know any better, then why doesn't someone tell them? Why do people turn a blind eye? However it seems like these kids were old enough to know better...still it doesn't excuse the lack of involvement. There's no such thing as "old enough to know better." It's purely situational. A 30 year old grown adult taken out of a tribal village won't "know better" in our society because behavior is environmentally dictated. "Knowing better" is a matter of conditioning the right societal interests into the kids. Which is also why you are wrong if you think children just naturally can progress into societal bullying. Bullying is a repeated act of low level harassment and it's like that because the bullies learn from whoever raised them that doing oppressive things that are unlikely to be caught or punished is how you treat people. It is the exact same kind of trauma that bullies inflict on others. If you're old enough to know better you should be able to broaden your view about this. Ignorance to the situation isn't just not condoning bullying. | ||
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Durso
United States51 Posts
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ranshaked
United States870 Posts
It disgusts me that family or friends didn't notice something wrong with the kid. Fortunately for me my mother and father did a lot to help me through my middle school days. I was constantly bullied. I'd always come home with my lunch money stolen or a black eye or my homework torn up. I think it is on te parents at this point. Oh well, lock the kid up for life and leave it at that. | ||
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Spieltor
327 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:20 TwoToneTerran wrote: There's no such thing as "old enough to know better." It's purely situational. A 30 year old grown adult taken out of a tribal village won't "know better" in our society because behavior is environmentally dictated. "Knowing better" is a matter of conditioning the right societal interests into the kids. Which is also why you are wrong if you think children just naturally can progress into societal bullying. Bullying is a repeated act of low level harassment and it's like that because the bullies learn from whoever raised them that doing oppressive things that are unlikely to be caught or punished is how you treat people. It is the exact same kind of trauma that bullies inflict on others. If you're old enough to know better you should be able to broaden your view about this. Ignorance to the situation isn't just not condoning bullying. that is also true. knowledge of good and bad is based on learning, therefore if you chained a person to the ground since infancy, and after 30 years you told them to kill someone, when they have no concept that it is "good or bad" can the murder be at fault? Knowledge is guilt and choice. Now lets reverse that for ignorance on the situation of bullying as it truly is. Doesn't that prove that the people "who didnt do enough" are also innocent? On February 28 2012 05:22 ranshaked wrote: I don't understand these people that go an shoot kids because they were bullied. It disgusts me that family or friends didn't notice something wrong with the kid. Fortunately for me my mother and father did a lot to help me through my middle school days. I was constantly bullied. I'd always come home with my lunch money stolen or a black eye or my homework torn up. I think it is on te parents at this point. Oh well, lock the kid up for life and leave it at that. because the correct answer to a beta kid who's been tortured psychologically until they act out is to put them in an institution where they will be tortured psychologically for the rest of their lives? herpderp. | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:19 Blasterion wrote: It's fortunate that only bullies were involved and the innocent and people irrelevant to the conflict were unharmed. Someone's dead dude. Whether that person bullied him or not does not excuse that. Youn people do stupid shit, sometimes that involves treating other people poorly or abusively. Sometimes that's the result of them not knowing any better, sometimes that's the result of them not being able to deal with their own personal feelings. Either way it doesn't mean they deserve to die. | ||
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Charger
United States2405 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:20 Kamais Ookin wrote: Bullying is the justification to shoot them, as a last resort anyways. Everyone is different, some can take the prolonged bullying and get fucked in life but not shoot bullies, others reach their peak and snap. The onus is on the SCHOOL to give a FUCK about the bullying going on. Yes the school should give a fuck and should have been doing everything possible to stop the bullying. But to seriously say murdering someone for bullying you is justifiable is kind of mind blowing. Saying people handle things differently doesn't make this justifiable or excusable. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:19 Blasterion wrote: It's fortunate that only bullies were involved and the innocent and people irrelevant to the conflict were unharmed. That's actually not true. The female that was shot wasn't even at the table the 'bullies'(I pointed out earlier that people who actually go to the school are saying this isn't the case, he wasn't bullied, it was about something else), she was hit by a stray shot. It also happened in the cafeteria at a very busy time(breakfast+PSEO kids waiting for bus to take them to other facilities), so just because people weren't shot doesn't mean they weren't involved. Seeing friends of mine shot in school would very much make me 'involved' whether I am physically harmed by the event or not. | ||
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Spieltor
327 Posts
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Spieltor
327 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:22 ranshaked wrote: I don't understand these people that go an shoot kids because they were bullied. It disgusts me that family or friends didn't notice something wrong with the kid. Fortunately for me my mother and father did a lot to help me through my middle school days. I was constantly bullied. I'd always come home with my lunch money stolen or a black eye or my homework torn up. I think it is on te parents at this point. Oh well, lock the kid up for life and leave it at that. because the correct answer to a beta kid who's been tortured psychologically until they act out is to put them in an institution where they will be tortured psychologically for the rest of their lives? herpderp.[/QUOTE] | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:19 Spieltor wrote: no, bullying is a product of humanity, and alpha and beta types of people. This has been observed in chickens as well, hence the term "pecking order". Comparing human psychology to animals is preposterous. Human behavior is dictated by society more than by primal instinct (one incurred the other and you can see remnants of it leftover in society, but my point stands). What countries right now are trying to bully what other countries? What the heck? I'm speaking purely about intrapersonal bullying behaviors. This is such an obtuse and unrelated point and a horrific stretch on the term bullying. there will always be bullies just as there will always be people who emit the pheromones and body language and behavior saying "everyone bully me". If you've looked at twins who've been separated for life, they dance the same way to the same music that they've never heard before and are being tested with. the will to bully or the target sign on your back to be bullied is genetically determined. I'm stopping here. Humans don't emit pheromones, you have no idea what you're talking. I was about to humor a debate on what you were saying but you're clearly speaking from a poorly thought out position to start clearly making things up from stuff you hear in popular culture like human pheromones that cause bullying. That's right out of an Axe bodyspray commercial. | ||
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Erik.TheRed
United States1655 Posts
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HULKAMANIA
United States1219 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:20 Kamais Ookin wrote: Bullying is the justification to shoot them, as a last resort anyways. Everyone is different, some can take the prolonged bullying and get fucked in life but not shoot bullies, others reach their peak and snap. The onus is on the SCHOOL to give a FUCK about the bullying going on. Wow. Just wow. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:23 red_ wrote: That's actually not true. The female that was shot wasn't even at the table the 'bullies'(I pointed out earlier that people who actually go to the school are saying this isn't the case, he wasn't bullied, it was about something else), she was hit by a stray shot. It also happened in the cafeteria at a very busy time(breakfast+PSEO kids waiting for bus to take them to other facilities), so just because people weren't shot doesn't mean they weren't involved. Seeing friends of mine shot in school would very much make me 'involved' whether I am physically harmed by the event or not. If that's the case then yeah that's quite unfortunate and sad. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:23 red_ wrote: That's actually not true. The female that was shot wasn't even at the table the 'bullies'(I pointed out earlier that people who actually go to the school are saying this isn't the case, he wasn't bullied, it was about something else), she was hit by a stray shot. It also happened in the cafeteria at a very busy time(breakfast+PSEO kids waiting for bus to take them to other facilities), so just because people weren't shot doesn't mean they weren't involved. Seeing friends of mine shot in school would very much make me 'involved' whether I am physically harmed by the event or not. The kid who died was dating the shooters ex girlfriend. I added that post in a couple pages ago. bottom of 4th page I think. | ||
Scisyhp
United States200 Posts
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ranshaked
United States870 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:25 Spieltor wrote: because the correct answer to a beta kid who's been tortured psychologically until they act out is to put them in an institution where they will be tortured psychologically for the rest of their lives? herpderp. [/QUOTE] If you take a life. You do not deserve to live yours outside of a prison. A lot of people are bullied on a daily basis and don't go on a shooting rampage. Obviously the kid that did the shooting has problems and isn't fit for society, so leave him in prison with other people like him. | ||
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