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As always, with topics as complex and sensitive as these, please take a minute to think before you post. If this thread is to stay open the following must be avoided:
- Disrespect to any of the parties involved (be it the bullies or bullied)
The above includes:
- Justifying or glorifying death or suicide as deserved
- Disregarding or belittling the circumstances that give rise to these situations
There's a reason why these discussions are always so sensitive. There are extremes on either side of the discussion that are disrespectful and narrow-minded in their own ways; the best approach is to carefully consider the other side before posting
Warnings and bans will be handed out for unreasoned and insensitive statements. |
On February 28 2012 04:58 ASNheat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 04:51 Yergidy wrote:On February 28 2012 04:41 ASNheat wrote:
We'll continue to see school shootings until the root of the problem is addressed. In the current US school system, students are taught to ignore bullies, and go on with their lives. However, in a lot of cases, the psychological damage still exists and instead of ignoring the anger and frustration they feel, it only festers inside them, eventually leading to school shootings. I believe that a total reversal of the current system should be used where children are taught to express their feelings, both negative and positive, in socially constructive activities. In my eyes, it's clearly evident that there is a much deeper societal problem at the root of things because school shootings have been almost a constant for many years now. It also doesn't help that they're plastered all over the news for potential copycats to see. So what happens when they are bullied as adults? Yes believe it or not there are adult jerks too. You have to learn to deal with it or you're just going to be just as bad off in the future. The world is full of dicks and it's always going to be that way, pretending like we can make the world a dick free environment is idealistic and will never happen, no matter what you do. Very valid point. What I'm trying to say is that the way we are taught as children isn't as effective as it could be. When a child is told to just ignore the bullies, they aren't really being taught how to cope with the feelings they have in a proper, constructive manner. It runs much deeper to fully understand the feelings you are having, why they are occurring, and how to cope with them, than just taking a blind eye to the problem and telling people to ignore it and deal with it on their own.
The sad thing is? Violence works...the two times I've ever snapped when I was being tormented, I punched the offender(s), and neither one ever looked me in the eye again. What does this teach me? Do I believe experience, which has taught me to fight back, or what I grew up being told, which was to ignore it and it will go away, or to use my words, neither of which worked? Hm...that's the thing about bullies they don't back down until someone bites harder than they do, so to speak. Schools need to eliminate bullying at its source or the cycle of violence will not stop...it's sad, especially now that I'm old enough to step back and look at what has happened in my life.
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On February 28 2012 05:01 GreEny K wrote:
Btw, the shooters name is TJ Lane and the victim that ended up dying is Russel King. Also, not only are they basing this on bullying, but apparently TJ's ex girlfriend started to date Russel.
Didn't see this info in the link yet, thought I'd share it.
Ah. Bullying + Jealousy = Psychological molotov cocktail.
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The sad thing is that this guy announced his intentions on omegle/facebook/twitter and nobody took him seriously and reported it to the authorities?
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On February 28 2012 05:00 Yergidy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 04:54 ZasZ. wrote:On February 28 2012 04:51 Yergidy wrote:On February 28 2012 04:41 ASNheat wrote:
We'll continue to see school shootings until the root of the problem is addressed. In the current US school system, students are taught to ignore bullies, and go on with their lives. However, in a lot of cases, the psychological damage still exists and instead of ignoring the anger and frustration they feel, it only festers inside them, eventually leading to school shootings. I believe that a total reversal of the current system should be used where children are taught to express their feelings, both negative and positive, in socially constructive activities. In my eyes, it's clearly evident that there is a much deeper societal problem at the root of things because school shootings have been almost a constant for many years now. It also doesn't help that they're plastered all over the news for potential copycats to see. So what happens when they are bullied as adults? Yes believe it or not there are adult jerks too. You have to learn to deal with it or you're just going to be just as bad off in the future. The world is full of dicks and it's always going to be that way, pretending like we can make the world a dick free environment is idealistic and will never happen, no matter what you do. The difference being that the average adult is of a much more stable mental state than the average teenager. Not saying what the kid was right or acceptable, but the people that spend their time around these kids day in and day out need to pay attention for the warning signs. We call them children for a reason, they're not at the point yet where we expect them to be capable of making well-reasoned decisions. I'm not saying that bullying should be ignored completely if it is in the school they have a obligation to every student to make them feel safe while in school. I just don't agree with the whole thing "we can just get rid of all the bullies if we just did x" because that is never going to work jerks will be jerks no matter what. You can't change who someone is unless they want to change themselves first.
Then I guess the only thing that needs to be said is that they should accept the risk that someone might kill them one day if they behave in that manner. It's unlikely, but always possible.
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On February 28 2012 05:01 GreEny K wrote:
Btw, the shooters name is TJ Lane and the victim that ended up dying is Russel King. Also, not only are they basing this on bullying, but apparently TJ's ex girlfriend started to date Russel.
Didn't see this info in the link yet, thought I'd share it.
Hmm interesting... I got the bullying angle from a guy from his school that they were interviewing on CNN, he said something like "I know the group of kids that he shot at builled him"
I'm sure there's more to the story that hasn't come out yet.
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Very sad for all the kids and families involved in this tragedy, my sympathies go out to them. I really wish the OP wouldn't have implied that the bullies deserved to be open fired on and shot or killed.
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Heartbreaking that it comes to this sometimes. Nothing you can say now, but thoughts and prayers to the families.
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On February 28 2012 05:02 OmiDeLta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 04:58 ASNheat wrote:On February 28 2012 04:51 Yergidy wrote:On February 28 2012 04:41 ASNheat wrote:
We'll continue to see school shootings until the root of the problem is addressed. In the current US school system, students are taught to ignore bullies, and go on with their lives. However, in a lot of cases, the psychological damage still exists and instead of ignoring the anger and frustration they feel, it only festers inside them, eventually leading to school shootings. I believe that a total reversal of the current system should be used where children are taught to express their feelings, both negative and positive, in socially constructive activities. In my eyes, it's clearly evident that there is a much deeper societal problem at the root of things because school shootings have been almost a constant for many years now. It also doesn't help that they're plastered all over the news for potential copycats to see. So what happens when they are bullied as adults? Yes believe it or not there are adult jerks too. You have to learn to deal with it or you're just going to be just as bad off in the future. The world is full of dicks and it's always going to be that way, pretending like we can make the world a dick free environment is idealistic and will never happen, no matter what you do. Very valid point. What I'm trying to say is that the way we are taught as children isn't as effective as it could be. When a child is told to just ignore the bullies, they aren't really being taught how to cope with the feelings they have in a proper, constructive manner. It runs much deeper to fully understand the feelings you are having, why they are occurring, and how to cope with them, than just taking a blind eye to the problem and telling people to ignore it and deal with it on their own. The sad thing is? Violence works...the two times I've ever snapped when I was being tormented, I punched the offender(s), and neither one ever looked me in the eye again. What does this teach me? Do I believe experience, which has taught me to fight back, or what I grew up being told, which was to ignore it and it will go away, or to use my words, neither of which worked? Hm...that's the thing about bullies they don't back down until someone bites harder than they do, so to speak. Schools need to eliminate bullying at its source or the cycle of violence will not stop...it's sad, especially now that I'm old enough to step back and look at what has happened in my life.
Violence should be the last step you take when confronting a bully, but if after talking to the teacher/school and they are doing nothing about it there is nothing wrong with defending yourself if you are being physically bullied(not with guns or premeditated murder, but with your fists when you are being bullied). What is really stupid is schools' zero tolerance rule for fighting. Someone who is getting beat up should have the right to defend themselves without getting suspended, in my opinion it just feeds the fire. The kids that are worried about getting suspended are not the aggressors, but the defenders.
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On February 28 2012 04:59 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 04:53 OmiDeLta wrote:On February 28 2012 04:43 TwoToneTerran wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 OmiDeLta wrote:On February 28 2012 04:35 Silidons wrote:
here we go again with the army of people on TL who think that it's okay to shoot and kill someone for the only reason that they're an asshole. once again a person can't deal with their own problems and thinks that it is okay to kill someone for being bullied.
"but they made fun of me so i shot him" oh here is a fucking medal. anyone who does this should go to prison. welcome to earth, where you're going to encounter assholes your entire life. if you think the only way to deal with it is to shoot them, you're bat shit crazy and deserve to be in prison your entire life.
when i was in elementary i would get made fun of sometimes by random kids because my name is very different, but i didn't give a shit. I think you're missing the basic point...nobody said it's okay to kill anyone. Nobody. o.o People have only said that they understand the shooter's feelings. Nope, that is the problem. I understand the social majority of this forum will always sympathize with the bullied first, but the act of murder is worse than bullying. Stating your explicit lack of sympathy for the murdered is a very poor stance to take and implies sympathy for the shooter against the bullies. The bullied child needs much more help at this point, but there is no help for the dead. The obvious solution is preventative and it would be nice if we lived in a perfect world. Be more outraged at the parents of both sides, the school system itself, and society for both the tolerance of such things and the ease of which a child of compromised mental health (from said bullying) can get a gun. I feel like in these sorts of threads there's too much of a kneejerk reaction to the situation. Hmmm. While I see and understand your point, I am sorry to say that I disagree - however this is due to personal bias. I was at a point in my life seven years ago where, had I been able to get my hands on a gun, I would have gone the same way. I sympathize with the bullied kid first because I remember the feeling of being ignored, trapped, helpless, crushed...and you honestly don't know what to do. I remember it vividly and I would never wish that situation on anyone. Don't get me wrong - your point is COMPLETELY valid, and yes, murder is worse than bullying; I simply want to explain how the other side feels, calmly, so things don't dissolve into some kind of flame war...and now I'm ranting. Maybe if everyone understood each other, these things wouldn't happen... Yeah, and why do you think most bullies are the way they are? Their home lives are usually desperate, shitty situations and their only outlet similarly is bullying. If you can sympathize with mental duress, you should be able to understand the bullies as well. I was bullied myself but I can take a different perspective on the situation, as I lived in the same neighborhood as my bullies and, in retrospect, I fully understand what home lives they had now and I feel sorry for what they had to put up with as well. 1st level personal bias is one of the worst ways to form an opinion on complex situations and becoming a creature of your trauma is the way these things happen in the first place. Raise awareness on bullying, yes, but an equally big problem is raising the awareness on domestic and child abuse that leads to bullying. Children are not bad people, bullies or not. Saying "I don't sympathize with the dead kid because he was a bully" is incredibly heartless and ignorant.
Heh. I never said my opinion was formed on a good basis, only that it was formed. I don't believe that "children are not bad people" - I'm sorry I just don't; for many, many, MANY reasons that I will not go into here - but I never said I didn't sympathize with the dead child at all. I only said I sympathize with the shooter FIRST, then the victim. Twisted? Maybe, and I don't expect everyone - or anyone really - to agree. It's just purely how I feel. No child deserves to die but no child has the right to push their feelings on to another like that, no matter what their home life is like. If the child doesn't know any better, then why doesn't someone tell them? Why do people turn a blind eye? However it seems like these kids were old enough to know better...still it doesn't excuse the lack of involvement.
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Calm the fuck down people. At least let some more facts roll in so that we can get something more than pure conjecture about the events that led up to the shooting.
And then we can continue to praise premeditated murder because we were all bullied as children and it ruined our lives.
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I was bullied and beaten on all throughout elementary and high school. There is no justification for shooting/killing another human being because they bullied you. This kid wanted to get a gun involved? He should have just shot himself in the head.
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On February 28 2012 05:11 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Calm the fuck down people. At least let some more facts roll in so that we can get something more than pure conjecture about the events that led up to the shooting.
And then we can continue to praise premeditated murder because we were all bullied as children and it ruined our lives.
I don't think anyone here is praising it...at least I'm not, I'm just sad...sad that this kid was pushed to the point where he took the life of another...a cycle of sadness, I guess...
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On February 28 2012 05:02 OmiDeLta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 04:58 ASNheat wrote:On February 28 2012 04:51 Yergidy wrote:On February 28 2012 04:41 ASNheat wrote:
We'll continue to see school shootings until the root of the problem is addressed. In the current US school system, students are taught to ignore bullies, and go on with their lives. However, in a lot of cases, the psychological damage still exists and instead of ignoring the anger and frustration they feel, it only festers inside them, eventually leading to school shootings. I believe that a total reversal of the current system should be used where children are taught to express their feelings, both negative and positive, in socially constructive activities. In my eyes, it's clearly evident that there is a much deeper societal problem at the root of things because school shootings have been almost a constant for many years now. It also doesn't help that they're plastered all over the news for potential copycats to see. So what happens when they are bullied as adults? Yes believe it or not there are adult jerks too. You have to learn to deal with it or you're just going to be just as bad off in the future. The world is full of dicks and it's always going to be that way, pretending like we can make the world a dick free environment is idealistic and will never happen, no matter what you do. Very valid point. What I'm trying to say is that the way we are taught as children isn't as effective as it could be. When a child is told to just ignore the bullies, they aren't really being taught how to cope with the feelings they have in a proper, constructive manner. It runs much deeper to fully understand the feelings you are having, why they are occurring, and how to cope with them, than just taking a blind eye to the problem and telling people to ignore it and deal with it on their own. The sad thing is? Violence works...the two times I've ever snapped when I was being tormented, I punched the offender(s), and neither one ever looked me in the eye again. What does this teach me? Do I believe experience, which has taught me to fight back, or what I grew up being told, which was to ignore it and it will go away, or to use my words, neither of which worked? Hm...that's the thing about bullies they don't back down until someone bites harder than they do, so to speak. Schools need to eliminate bullying at its source or the cycle of violence will not stop...it's sad, especially now that I'm old enough to step back and look at what has happened in my life.
agreed, ignoring people doesn't work, since if you do that, they'll know that you're a easy target and they'll bully you even worse.
if the authorities are ignoring you, then the only thing you can do is to fight them, and to make them realize how dangerous you can be. this guy should have just confronted them early on (with fists not guns), instead of ignoring them to the point where he snapped.
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On February 28 2012 05:13 Mark Henry wrote:
I was bullied and beaten on all throughout elementary and high school. There is no justification for shooting/killing another human being because they bullied you. This kid wanted to get a gun involved? He should have just shot himself in the head. You're the world's strongest man bro. Everyone is different though, it's not black and white "oh I was bullied and I was fine everyone else should be fine too from being bullied!" That's not how things work.
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On February 28 2012 05:15 Kamais Ookin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 05:13 Mark Henry wrote:
I was bullied and beaten on all throughout elementary and high school. There is no justification for shooting/killing another human being because they bullied you. This kid wanted to get a gun involved? He should have just shot himself in the head. You're the world's strongest man bro. Everyone is different though, it's not black and white "oh I was bullied and I was fine everyone else should be fine too from being bullied!" That's not how things work.
He didn't say he was fine or that everyone should be fine after being bullied. He said there is no justification for killing or attempting to kill someone who bullied you. Which I can't imagine people would seriously disagree with.
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On February 28 2012 05:14 asdav wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 05:02 OmiDeLta wrote:On February 28 2012 04:58 ASNheat wrote:On February 28 2012 04:51 Yergidy wrote:On February 28 2012 04:41 ASNheat wrote:
We'll continue to see school shootings until the root of the problem is addressed. In the current US school system, students are taught to ignore bullies, and go on with their lives. However, in a lot of cases, the psychological damage still exists and instead of ignoring the anger and frustration they feel, it only festers inside them, eventually leading to school shootings. I believe that a total reversal of the current system should be used where children are taught to express their feelings, both negative and positive, in socially constructive activities. In my eyes, it's clearly evident that there is a much deeper societal problem at the root of things because school shootings have been almost a constant for many years now. It also doesn't help that they're plastered all over the news for potential copycats to see. So what happens when they are bullied as adults? Yes believe it or not there are adult jerks too. You have to learn to deal with it or you're just going to be just as bad off in the future. The world is full of dicks and it's always going to be that way, pretending like we can make the world a dick free environment is idealistic and will never happen, no matter what you do. Very valid point. What I'm trying to say is that the way we are taught as children isn't as effective as it could be. When a child is told to just ignore the bullies, they aren't really being taught how to cope with the feelings they have in a proper, constructive manner. It runs much deeper to fully understand the feelings you are having, why they are occurring, and how to cope with them, than just taking a blind eye to the problem and telling people to ignore it and deal with it on their own. The sad thing is? Violence works...the two times I've ever snapped when I was being tormented, I punched the offender(s), and neither one ever looked me in the eye again. What does this teach me? Do I believe experience, which has taught me to fight back, or what I grew up being told, which was to ignore it and it will go away, or to use my words, neither of which worked? Hm...that's the thing about bullies they don't back down until someone bites harder than they do, so to speak. Schools need to eliminate bullying at its source or the cycle of violence will not stop...it's sad, especially now that I'm old enough to step back and look at what has happened in my life. agreed, ignoring people doesn't work, since if you do that, they'll know that you're a easy target and they'll bully you even worse. if the authorities are ignoring you, then the only thing you can do is to fight them, and to make them realize how dangerous you can be. this guy should have just confronted them early on (with fists not guns), instead of ignoring them to the point where he snapped. Good luck winning your fight with fists in a 1 vs. 5 situation... That's just an invitation to lose some teeth.
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I live so close to this =(
It is scary to think that this shit can happen anywhere and at anytime without warning.
We finished our school day today with a moment of silence.
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On February 28 2012 05:15 Kamais Ookin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 05:13 Mark Henry wrote:
I was bullied and beaten on all throughout elementary and high school. There is no justification for shooting/killing another human being because they bullied you. This kid wanted to get a gun involved? He should have just shot himself in the head. You're the world's strongest man bro. Everyone is different though, it's not black and white "oh I was bullied and I was fine everyone else should be fine too from being bullied!" That's not how things work.
That was a mean thing to say, maybe I should come shoot you?
User was warned for this post
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Chardon student Evan Erasmus told WEWS that a student had tweeted that he was going to bring a gun to school, but that no one took him seriously.
What's funny is awhile ago people were outraged a UK couple was kicked out of US for tweeting nonsense. More reason for government to do so!
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On February 28 2012 05:10 Yergidy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 05:02 OmiDeLta wrote:On February 28 2012 04:58 ASNheat wrote:On February 28 2012 04:51 Yergidy wrote:On February 28 2012 04:41 ASNheat wrote:
We'll continue to see school shootings until the root of the problem is addressed. In the current US school system, students are taught to ignore bullies, and go on with their lives. However, in a lot of cases, the psychological damage still exists and instead of ignoring the anger and frustration they feel, it only festers inside them, eventually leading to school shootings. I believe that a total reversal of the current system should be used where children are taught to express their feelings, both negative and positive, in socially constructive activities. In my eyes, it's clearly evident that there is a much deeper societal problem at the root of things because school shootings have been almost a constant for many years now. It also doesn't help that they're plastered all over the news for potential copycats to see. So what happens when they are bullied as adults? Yes believe it or not there are adult jerks too. You have to learn to deal with it or you're just going to be just as bad off in the future. The world is full of dicks and it's always going to be that way, pretending like we can make the world a dick free environment is idealistic and will never happen, no matter what you do. Very valid point. What I'm trying to say is that the way we are taught as children isn't as effective as it could be. When a child is told to just ignore the bullies, they aren't really being taught how to cope with the feelings they have in a proper, constructive manner. It runs much deeper to fully understand the feelings you are having, why they are occurring, and how to cope with them, than just taking a blind eye to the problem and telling people to ignore it and deal with it on their own. The sad thing is? Violence works...the two times I've ever snapped when I was being tormented, I punched the offender(s), and neither one ever looked me in the eye again. What does this teach me? Do I believe experience, which has taught me to fight back, or what I grew up being told, which was to ignore it and it will go away, or to use my words, neither of which worked? Hm...that's the thing about bullies they don't back down until someone bites harder than they do, so to speak. Schools need to eliminate bullying at its source or the cycle of violence will not stop...it's sad, especially now that I'm old enough to step back and look at what has happened in my life. Violence should be the last step you take when confronting a bully, but if after talking to the teacher/school and they are doing nothing about it there is nothing wrong with defending yourself if you are being physically bullied(not with guns or premeditated murder, but with your fists when you are being bullied). What is really stupid is schools' zero tolerance rule for fighting. Someone who is getting beat up should have the right to defend themselves without getting suspended, in my opinion it just feeds the fire. The kids that are worried about getting suspended are not the aggressors, but the defenders.
And that was exactly what happened with me. Eh heh. But the second time, I got off easy because it was the last day of school...
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