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As always, with topics as complex and sensitive as these, please take a minute to think before you post. If this thread is to stay open the following must be avoided:
- Disrespect to any of the parties involved (be it the bullies or bullied)
The above includes:
- Justifying or glorifying death or suicide as deserved
- Disregarding or belittling the circumstances that give rise to these situations
There's a reason why these discussions are always so sensitive. There are extremes on either side of the discussion that are disrespectful and narrow-minded in their own ways; the best approach is to carefully consider the other side before posting
Warnings and bans will be handed out for unreasoned and insensitive statements. |
On February 28 2012 04:43 Tryndamere wrote:
They said the shooter was a nice guy, easy to talk to etc... I guess they must have really pissed him off in order for him to shoot them.
"He was such a nice guy."
"I could never have suspected."
"He seemed like a good father."
I don't know how many times I've seen these kinds of comments when someone does something horrible, murder, rape or whatever it might be. At some point you have to realize that someone that seems like a "nice guy" can be as capable of commiting horrible things as people that you'd identify as the opposite.
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Scary because I used to live in Ohio.
Oh well ........ :s sad story
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On February 28 2012 04:41 ASNheat wrote:
We'll continue to see school shootings until the root of the problem is addressed. In the current US school system, students are taught to ignore bullies, and go on with their lives. However, in a lot of cases, the psychological damage still exists and instead of ignoring the anger and frustration they feel, it only festers inside them, eventually leading to school shootings. I believe that a total reversal of the current system should be used where children are taught to express their feelings, both negative and positive, in socially constructive activities. In my eyes, it's clearly evident that there is a much deeper societal problem at the root of things because school shootings have been almost a constant for many years now. It also doesn't help that they're plastered all over the news for potential copycats to see.
So what happens when they are bullied as adults? Yes believe it or not there are adult jerks too. You have to learn to deal with it or you're just going to be just as bad off in the future. The world is full of dicks and it's always going to be that way, pretending like we can make the world a dick free environment is idealistic and will never happen, no matter what you do.
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On February 28 2012 04:51 Incognoto wrote:
Scary because I used to live in Ohio.
Oh well ........ :s sad story
That happened like 10 minutes from where I live... Sad to see, but it's the same old story. And nobody is taking bullying more seriously.
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On February 28 2012 04:43 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 04:37 OmiDeLta wrote:On February 28 2012 04:35 Silidons wrote:
here we go again with the army of people on TL who think that it's okay to shoot and kill someone for the only reason that they're an asshole. once again a person can't deal with their own problems and thinks that it is okay to kill someone for being bullied.
"but they made fun of me so i shot him" oh here is a fucking medal. anyone who does this should go to prison. welcome to earth, where you're going to encounter assholes your entire life. if you think the only way to deal with it is to shoot them, you're bat shit crazy and deserve to be in prison your entire life.
when i was in elementary i would get made fun of sometimes by random kids because my name is very different, but i didn't give a shit. I think you're missing the basic point...nobody said it's okay to kill anyone. Nobody. o.o People have only said that they understand the shooter's feelings. Nope, that is the problem. I understand the social majority of this forum will always sympathize with the bullied first, but the act of murder is worse than bullying. Stating your explicit lack of sympathy for the murdered is a very poor stance to take and implies sympathy for the shooter against the bullies. The bullied child needs much more help at this point, but there is no help for the dead. The obvious solution is preventative and it would be nice if we lived in a perfect world. Be more outraged at the parents of both sides, the school system itself, and society for both the tolerance of such things and the ease of which a child of compromised mental health (from said bullying) can get a gun. I feel like in these sorts of threads there's too much of a kneejerk reaction to the situation.
Hmmm. While I see and understand your point, I am sorry to say that I disagree - however this is due to personal bias. I was at a point in my life seven years ago where, had I been able to get my hands on a gun, I would have gone the same way. I sympathize with the bullied kid first because I remember the feeling of being ignored, trapped, helpless, crushed...and you honestly don't know what to do. I remember it vividly and I would never wish that situation on anyone. Don't get me wrong - your point is COMPLETELY valid, and yes, murder is worse than bullying; I simply want to explain how the other side feels, calmly, so things don't dissolve into some kind of flame war...and now I'm ranting.
Maybe if everyone understood each other, these things wouldn't happen...
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Jesus, that kid does not look old :|
More gun control debates incomming.
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On February 28 2012 04:51 Yergidy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 04:41 ASNheat wrote:
We'll continue to see school shootings until the root of the problem is addressed. In the current US school system, students are taught to ignore bullies, and go on with their lives. However, in a lot of cases, the psychological damage still exists and instead of ignoring the anger and frustration they feel, it only festers inside them, eventually leading to school shootings. I believe that a total reversal of the current system should be used where children are taught to express their feelings, both negative and positive, in socially constructive activities. In my eyes, it's clearly evident that there is a much deeper societal problem at the root of things because school shootings have been almost a constant for many years now. It also doesn't help that they're plastered all over the news for potential copycats to see. So what happens when they are bullied as adults? Yes believe it or not there are adult jerks too. You have to learn to deal with it or you're just going to be just as bad off in the future. The world is full of dicks and it's always going to be that way, pretending like we can make the world a dick free environment is idealistic and will never happen, no matter what you do.
The difference being that the average adult is of a much more stable mental state than the average teenager.
Not saying what the kid was right or acceptable, but the people that spend their time around these kids day in and day out need to pay attention for the warning signs. We call them children for a reason, they're not at the point yet where we expect them to be capable of making well-reasoned decisions.
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On February 28 2012 04:53 Hypemeup wrote:
Jesus, that kid does not look old :|
More gun control debates incomming.
As if on cue, the "Should people be allowed..." thread got bumped. Hahaha.
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On February 28 2012 04:53 Hypemeup wrote:
Jesus, that kid does not look old :|
More gun control debates incomming.
Hopefully those will stay in their appropriate topic...
Edit: Looks like they will
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god i fucking hate bullies. i feel bad for the kid, but obviously shooting people is too extreme.
+ Show Spoiler +another reason why we need heavier gun control. who knows where he got the guns from... spoiler'd so to not start a stupid debate. (my hopes at least)
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Three injured? He should have worked on his aim before attempting this. Now maybe kids will think twice before bullying people, with the chance of being shot and all that. Condolences to the families of all five kids.
User was warned for this post
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On February 28 2012 04:51 Yergidy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 04:41 ASNheat wrote:
We'll continue to see school shootings until the root of the problem is addressed. In the current US school system, students are taught to ignore bullies, and go on with their lives. However, in a lot of cases, the psychological damage still exists and instead of ignoring the anger and frustration they feel, it only festers inside them, eventually leading to school shootings. I believe that a total reversal of the current system should be used where children are taught to express their feelings, both negative and positive, in socially constructive activities. In my eyes, it's clearly evident that there is a much deeper societal problem at the root of things because school shootings have been almost a constant for many years now. It also doesn't help that they're plastered all over the news for potential copycats to see. So what happens when they are bullied as adults? Yes believe it or not there are adult jerks too. You have to learn to deal with it or you're just going to be just as bad off in the future. The world is full of dicks and it's always going to be that way, pretending like we can make the world a dick free environment is idealistic and will never happen, no matter what you do.
This attitude is the root of problem. Some people simply cannot deal with it. I bet people told this kid many times to deal with it. We've been trying this approach for quite a while and look where it got us.
You obviously cannot make the world perfect but you can make it better. Very little is done about bullying nowadays and it has to change or these kind of events will keep happening as often as they do now.
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On February 28 2012 04:53 OmiDeLta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 04:43 TwoToneTerran wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 OmiDeLta wrote:On February 28 2012 04:35 Silidons wrote:
here we go again with the army of people on TL who think that it's okay to shoot and kill someone for the only reason that they're an asshole. once again a person can't deal with their own problems and thinks that it is okay to kill someone for being bullied.
"but they made fun of me so i shot him" oh here is a fucking medal. anyone who does this should go to prison. welcome to earth, where you're going to encounter assholes your entire life. if you think the only way to deal with it is to shoot them, you're bat shit crazy and deserve to be in prison your entire life.
when i was in elementary i would get made fun of sometimes by random kids because my name is very different, but i didn't give a shit. I think you're missing the basic point...nobody said it's okay to kill anyone. Nobody. o.o People have only said that they understand the shooter's feelings. Nope, that is the problem. I understand the social majority of this forum will always sympathize with the bullied first, but the act of murder is worse than bullying. Stating your explicit lack of sympathy for the murdered is a very poor stance to take and implies sympathy for the shooter against the bullies. The bullied child needs much more help at this point, but there is no help for the dead. The obvious solution is preventative and it would be nice if we lived in a perfect world. Be more outraged at the parents of both sides, the school system itself, and society for both the tolerance of such things and the ease of which a child of compromised mental health (from said bullying) can get a gun. I feel like in these sorts of threads there's too much of a kneejerk reaction to the situation. Hmmm. While I see and understand your point, I am sorry to say that I disagree - however this is due to personal bias. I was at a point in my life seven years ago where, had I been able to get my hands on a gun, I would have gone the same way. I sympathize with the bullied kid first because I remember the feeling of being ignored, trapped, helpless, crushed...and you honestly don't know what to do. I remember it vividly and I would never wish that situation on anyone. Don't get me wrong - your point is COMPLETELY valid, and yes, murder is worse than bullying; I simply want to explain how the other side feels, calmly, so things don't dissolve into some kind of flame war...and now I'm ranting. Maybe if everyone understood each other, these things wouldn't happen...
Yeah, and why do you think most bullies are the way they are? Their home lives are usually desperate, shitty situations and their only outlet similarly is bullying. If you can sympathize with mental duress, you should be able to understand the bullies as well.
I was bullied myself but I can take a different perspective on the situation, as I lived in the same neighborhood as my bullies and, in retrospect, I fully understand what home lives they had now and I feel sorry for what they had to put up with as well. 1st level personal bias is one of the worst ways to form an opinion on complex situations and becoming a creature of your trauma is the way these things happen in the first place. Raise awareness on bullying, yes, but an equally big problem is raising the awareness on domestic and child abuse that leads to bullying. Children are not bad people, bullies or not. Saying "I don't sympathize with the dead kid because he was a bully" is incredibly heartless and ignorant.
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On February 28 2012 04:49 Steemer wrote:
Holy shit, I remember a thread on 4chan with pics of this guy before it happened. He was going around on Omegle or some shit telling people that he was going to do it. I distinctly remember these pictures, and people on /b/ trying to track him down, but I lost track of the thread. Fuck me.
Wow, how long ago was this? I saw the thing he was holding said "Omegle", didn't know what it meant.
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On February 28 2012 04:58 ASNheat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 04:51 Yergidy wrote:On February 28 2012 04:41 ASNheat wrote:
We'll continue to see school shootings until the root of the problem is addressed. In the current US school system, students are taught to ignore bullies, and go on with their lives. However, in a lot of cases, the psychological damage still exists and instead of ignoring the anger and frustration they feel, it only festers inside them, eventually leading to school shootings. I believe that a total reversal of the current system should be used where children are taught to express their feelings, both negative and positive, in socially constructive activities. In my eyes, it's clearly evident that there is a much deeper societal problem at the root of things because school shootings have been almost a constant for many years now. It also doesn't help that they're plastered all over the news for potential copycats to see. So what happens when they are bullied as adults? Yes believe it or not there are adult jerks too. You have to learn to deal with it or you're just going to be just as bad off in the future. The world is full of dicks and it's always going to be that way, pretending like we can make the world a dick free environment is idealistic and will never happen, no matter what you do. Very valid point. What I'm trying to say is that the way we are taught as children isn't as effective as it could be. When a child is told to just ignore the bullies, they aren't really being taught how to cope with the feelings they have in a proper, constructive manner. It runs much deeper to fully understand the feelings you are having, why they are occurring, and how to cope with them, than just taking a blind eye to the problem and telling people to ignore it and deal with it on their own. This isn't a valid point at all. Comparing the average stable adult to teenagers with their puberty and such is LOL worthy.
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Its too unfortunate that shit like this had to happen. I remember gettin bullied pretty hardcore in middle school and now the bully is one of my best friends... If only bullying was approached with an open mind. you would be surprised at how damaged these people are. I feel very sorry for both
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This happened at my high school... I'm sure this sentiment is shared by plenty of people who's schools later became the targets of armed violence, but I must say I never thought it would happen at ours. To make things worse, my niece was within a few feet of the shooting(thankfully unharmed) and good friends with one of the injured. The victim that was fatally shot worked at a bowling alley I go to every now and then =/. From what I've been told this is not about bullying, but actually about a drug issue(sounds like someone got screwed on a deal, this is 2nd hand information from the students at the school I have connections to).
I'm not completely broken up about it, but it is a pretty big shakeup when something like this happens 'at home.'
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On February 28 2012 04:54 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 04:51 Yergidy wrote:On February 28 2012 04:41 ASNheat wrote:
We'll continue to see school shootings until the root of the problem is addressed. In the current US school system, students are taught to ignore bullies, and go on with their lives. However, in a lot of cases, the psychological damage still exists and instead of ignoring the anger and frustration they feel, it only festers inside them, eventually leading to school shootings. I believe that a total reversal of the current system should be used where children are taught to express their feelings, both negative and positive, in socially constructive activities. In my eyes, it's clearly evident that there is a much deeper societal problem at the root of things because school shootings have been almost a constant for many years now. It also doesn't help that they're plastered all over the news for potential copycats to see. So what happens when they are bullied as adults? Yes believe it or not there are adult jerks too. You have to learn to deal with it or you're just going to be just as bad off in the future. The world is full of dicks and it's always going to be that way, pretending like we can make the world a dick free environment is idealistic and will never happen, no matter what you do. The difference being that the average adult is of a much more stable mental state than the average teenager. Not saying what the kid was right or acceptable, but the people that spend their time around these kids day in and day out need to pay attention for the warning signs. We call them children for a reason, they're not at the point yet where we expect them to be capable of making well-reasoned decisions.
I'm not saying that bullying should be ignored completely if it is in the school they have a obligation to every student to make them feel safe while in school. I just don't agree with the whole thing "we can just get rid of all the bullies if we just did x" because that is never going to work jerks will be jerks no matter what. You can't change who someone is unless they want to change themselves first.
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Btw, the shooters name is TJ Lane and the victim that ended up dying is Russel King. Also, not only are they basing this on bullying, but apparently TJ's ex girlfriend started to date Russel.
Didn't see this info in the link yet, thought I'd share it.
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EPT
