EPTI live in New York State. Where pompous atheists insult anyone of faith for "being an ignorant idiot." And then claim that the religious are the ones shoving views down people's throats. Of course not all atheists are like this, however the majority I have met are.
School Shooting in Ohio - 3 Dead, 2 Injured - Page 26
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As always, with topics as complex and sensitive as these, please take a minute to think before you post. If this thread is to stay open the following must be avoided: - Disrespect to any of the parties involved (be it the bullies or bullied) The above includes: - Justifying or glorifying death or suicide as deserved - Disregarding or belittling the circumstances that give rise to these situations There's a reason why these discussions are always so sensitive. There are extremes on either side of the discussion that are disrespectful and narrow-minded in their own ways; the best approach is to carefully consider the other side before posting Warnings and bans will be handed out for unreasoned and insensitive statements. | ||
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
I live in New York State. Where pompous atheists insult anyone of faith for "being an ignorant idiot." And then claim that the religious are the ones shoving views down people's throats. Of course not all atheists are like this, however the majority I have met are. | ||
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dragoon
United States695 Posts
Sad that these things occur, despite things being blown out of proportion imo. | ||
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how
United States538 Posts
On February 29 2012 09:30 kellenr wrote: I cannot help it if that's the way I feel. I could lie, and pretend I don't feel that way, but what's the point? The shooter is the guilty party, and the people that got shot are the victims. If you don't agree with that, you are an idiot. It's as simple as that. Also, the reason I keep saying it is because it's obvious most of you haven't done any real research on school shootings. If everyone was spouting off with intellegent, fact based arguments, rather than "LOL BULLYING SUX THOSE BASTS GOT WHAT THEY HAD COMIN'" then I wouldn't have to keep saying it. If people are going to be ignorant, i'm going to call them on it. I'm sorry if that offends you. Hopefully it will motivate you to get more educated on the subject. If you actually think you are going to change someones mind on an emotional subject via the internet, you should spend more time on it. All that we can all agree upon is that it is a travesty. | ||
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Shantastic
United States435 Posts
On February 29 2012 11:43 Ungrateful wrote: Agreed, wait till they get to college where you see just how babied you were by high school teachers. Teachers are not baby sitters, they are paid to make sure the students learn the given subject and that's it. Its the parents jobs to teach morals and ethics just like its always been. Of course, because you're as physically and psychologically independent at the age of 19 as you are at 12. Teachers are absolutely babysitters in addition to educators. They are paid to watch over the students and teach them during school hours, which is why the school is responsible for anything that happens to students on campus. If I were to have jumped off the roof at the age of 12 during recess, the school would have been responsible. Schools are paid to know what goes on on their campus. If you don't think it's part of your job to prevent bullying and report bullying to the parents of those involved, you need to find a different profession. | ||
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HULKAMANIA
United States1219 Posts
Suspect told police he killed randomly in Ohio school The student, identified by authorities as T.J. Lane, appeared in Geauga County, Ohio Juvenile Court, where he was ordered detained following Monday's shooting at Chardon High School. Lane has confessed to police to taking a knife and a .22-caliber pistol into the high school cafeteria and firing 10 rounds at randomly selected students, prosecutors said. As the shocked residents of the town 35 miles east of Cleveland asked how it could have happened, two more students were pronounced dead from wounds suffered when Lane opened fire. Daniel Parmertor, 16, was pronounced dead on Monday, and Demetrius Hewlin and Russell King Jr., 17, on Tuesday, the Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner's office said. ... The families of King and Hewlin donated their organs and released statements Tuesday through MetroHealth Medical Center "Demetrius was a happy young man who loved life and his family and friends," the Hewlin family said. "We will miss him very much but we are proud that he will be able to help others through organ donation," it said. ... Lane's family said they were in shock over the events and asked for privacy. "The family wanted me to convey to the citizens of Geauga County and Northeastern Ohio that the family is devastated by this most recent event," the Lane family's lawyer Bob Farinacci told local WKYC news prior to Tuesday's hearing. "This is something that could never have been predicted. T.J.'s family has asked for some privacy while they try to understand how such a tragedy could have occurred and while they mourn this terrible loss for their community." ... "As was stated earlier in court today, he chose his victims at random," Prosecutor Joyce said. "This is not about bullying, this is not about drugs, this is someone who is not well." The judge ordered restrictions Tuesday on what prosecutors and defense attorneys could disclose publicly in the case. Lane's attorney Farinacci has described him as a "good kid" who had never been in trouble and had impressive grades. "He's a sophomore. He's been doubling up on his classes with the intent of graduating this May. He pretty much sticks to himself but does have some friends and has never been in trouble over anything that we know about," Farinacci said. Bullying may, in the end, be a relevant issue to this tragedy. It may not. But I would like to suggest that everyone cool off a bit and wait to see how the story continues to develop, especially before chiming in about how the children who were murdered yesterday in any sense whatsoever "had it coming." | ||
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Sikly
United States413 Posts
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chaK
Canada34 Posts
On February 29 2012 13:32 ampson wrote: I live in New York State. Where pompous atheists insult anyone of faith for "being an ignorant idiot." And then claim that the religious are the ones shoving views down people's throats. Of course not all atheists are like this, however the majority I have met are. There's a difference between "shoving views down people's throats" and "educating". For example, if someone genuinely believes that 2 + 2 = 6, it is every sane person's moral obligation to teach them that 2 + 2 is actually equal to 4. People cry "hurr durr shovin' yer views down mah throat" when they don't like what they hear, even if it is objectively correct. If everyone believed what they wanted to regardless of what was true, the world would be in fucking chaos. | ||
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Hyuzak
United States33 Posts
On February 29 2012 10:19 Phenom01 wrote: http://stateimpact.npr.org/ohio/2012/02/27/tragic-but-rare-odds-of-dying-in-a-school-shooting-as-in-chardon-at-least-one-in-a-million/ To all of you so concerned about bullying and its effects, and to all of you who think rules and intervention will do anything about it in exchange for yet more of a students limited freedom and required subordination to arbitrary bureaucrats, first consider this statistic and tell me how much we need serious, proactive intervention against bullying. " In contrast, the odds that a child would die in school–by homicide or suicide–are, fortunately, no greater than 1 in 1 million." It seems our cultural climate is becoming more and more paranoid and less and less realistic, in our so called humanitarian and sympathetic pity we dont realize that you can take a fuckin' chance. I would take these odds any day. School shootings are not the only thing that bullying can cause. Depression, Suicide, low self esteem, etc are all major issues that can be caused from being bullied. Saying that we don't need to worry about bullying just because not very many people die from school shootings is stupid. | ||
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kellenr
98 Posts
On February 29 2012 09:54 Spekulatius wrote: What you're doing so far is presuming. You might have read a lot about previous shootings. That doesn't change the fact that up until this point we know were little about why the shooting happened. You can go ahead and deduct from Columbine and Virginia Tech what might have happened here and why and how it could've been prevented. But fact is, about the shooting at hand you know as little as we do. So unless there's evidence for your statements and the comparability of the situations, you're just doing educated guesses. I acknowledge this hurts your pride, but it's no reason to get angry at people. And about the question if we should feel sympathy for the bullied: again, it's a matter of opinion, not of fact. It's your view on the situation against the others, or more precisely your feelings against those of the rest. And - I've said it before - very few people confuse the victim and the guilty party here. They're just empathising a little with what we thought was the victim of extensive bullying. That's literally what i've been saying the whole time. That we don't know what happened, we can't jump to conclusions and just assume it was bullying! That's literally what i've been pushing this whole time. And you're right, all i'm doing is making an educated guess! What most people are doing is simply guessing. They're totally neglecting the educated part. And i've read about way more than Columbine and Virginia Tech. The book I keep referencing, Rampage: The Social Roots of School Shootings gathers facts from like, 14 different school shootings. So yes, it's not a hunch i'm basing on just 2 incidents. I'm literally working with facts from no less than 20 different school shootings--counting the ones not included in the book i've researched. And guess what? Most of them have striking similarities. Now, that's not to say I know conclusively what happened. But an educated guess, yeah, I can manage that. Most people here can't. | ||
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
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RicochetSEA
Australia31 Posts
They think there's no way out. I can understand where these kids are coming from, pulling a gun and shooting the ones who torment you day in and day out. Somewhat justified, somewhat not. Regardless, something NEEDS to change. | ||
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kellenr
98 Posts
On February 29 2012 15:11 RicochetSEA wrote: Bullying is the main reason why so many of these troubled kids shoot them. They think there's no way out. I can understand where these kids are coming from, pulling a gun and shooting the ones who torment you day in and day out. Somewhat justified, somewhat not. Regardless, something NEEDS to change. Oh... My... God... Please read the thread before you post. Please. | ||
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PeZuY
935 Posts
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Kamais Ookin
Canada591 Posts
On February 29 2012 15:15 PeZuY wrote: Sorry to make you more sad but a few died, not just 1.Made me sad that one got killed because of one idiot. Sadly these kinds of things seems to be just growing every year with one or two shootings. | ||
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HULKAMANIA
United States1219 Posts
On February 29 2012 15:11 RicochetSEA wrote: Bullying is the main reason why so many of these troubled kids shoot them. They think there's no way out. I can understand where these kids are coming from, pulling a gun and shooting the ones who torment you day in and day out. Somewhat justified, somewhat not. Regardless, something NEEDS to change. Posts like these are exactly why I think that rhs ought to edit his first post ASAP. So many people just read the OP before responding. EDIT: The title could also be updated to reflect the fact that 3 students have now died from the shooting. | ||
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Pawss
United States12 Posts
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tryummm
774 Posts
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BlurzzV2
2 Posts
On February 29 2012 15:03 chaK wrote: There's a difference between "shoving views down people's throats" and "educating". For example, if someone genuinely believes that 2 + 2 = 6, it is every sane person's moral obligation to teach them that 2 + 2 is actually equal to 4. People cry "hurr durr shovin' yer views down mah throat" when they don't like what they hear, even if it is objectively correct. If everyone believed what they wanted to regardless of what was true, the world would be in fucking chaos. I really don't want to derail this thread, but your post does nothing except prove his point. If you are naive enough to think that determining the existence of God is something as simple as basic mathematics, then so be it. However, I would assume you claim to be an intellectual like most atheists, so please throw the irrelevant analogies out of the way and get to your point. "God doesn't exist, and people who believe he exists are merely uneducated" is what is implied here. Quite the paradox that you cannot even acknowledge how this is the exact same as what is on the other end of the spectrum, which is jehovah's witnesses knocking on peoples' doors. Don't be a hypocrite. From an existentialist point of view, everyone has the right to believe in what they want to. It's not your job to tell them what they should or should not believe in. As long as their beliefs don't infringe on your rights as a human being, it should be of no concern to you. It's not your job to "educate" them either, because there is no educating to be done here. This isn't a fucking math class. If there are beliefs rooted from a religion that don't allow for scientific concepts to coexist, then there could be an issue. But, there are some things that even atheists could use some "educating" with - A Large percentage of theists believe in evolution, for example (science and religion are not mutually exclusive, surprise surprise...). However, this isn't part of the bigger picture that i'm addressing. The only moral obligation you have is to respect the beliefs of other people. If you went to a school where 99% of people were theists and you were constantly harassed for being atheist... i'm sure you see where i'm going with this... I can attest to ampsons observation, because I see it all the time, and I'm in Canada. | ||
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Fourn
Greece227 Posts
On February 29 2012 15:03 Hyuzak wrote: School shootings are not the only thing that bullying can cause. Depression, Suicide, low self esteem, etc are all major issues that can be caused from being bullied. Saying that we don't need to worry about bullying just because not very many people die from school shootings is stupid. This. Though I do not agree with the actions of the shooter and in no way are his actions justifiable, but it is definitely understandable. I know what it's like to be bullied and as a result have very low self esteem now, but I would never lash out at my attackers. Fighting back, IMO, is just as worse as bullying and makes you no better than them. This shooter is a scumbag, but he should have never been subjected to bullying in the first place and I feel bad for him (and his victims) because he's probably fucked up in the head as a result of bullying. Anyone against cracking down on bullying just because the odds of being killed in a school shooting are ridiculously high is a moron. School shootings are not the only result of bullying. I personally think that bullying should be made illegal, no questions asked. It fucks people up for their entire lives and I'm certainly fucked up in the head a little because of what I had to go through in middle and high school. Detention/Suspension clearly does not get the message across. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
You spoke out before the facts were in, you made horrible claims. Have a little spine and admit you were wrong and ended up saying something disgusting. | ||
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