|
On August 09 2011 23:56 Olsson wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 23:50 Dfgj wrote:On August 09 2011 23:49 Olsson wrote:
How new is this 1/1/1 build? It's not that old really. Protoss just needs time to figure it out and if terran techs 1/1/1 why doesn't protoss. Terran uses bunkers against protoss timings which means protoss should get a few cannons up aswell. Cannons are btw the best static defence in the game use them more. Try since the beta. It's ok though we'll use cannons against siege tanks that'll fix it ty I mean as the 1/1/1 raven tank timing not the build into banshee or drops etc.
Since beta. Its been refined some, but like I said I remember trying to defend it on Kulas. Another poser said he played against it on SOW. Its been around forever. Jinro used it at the first MLG Dallas, it wasn't fresh then either. Its an old build that has always been brutal to hold. Now that players have it so much tighter its even worse.
|
|
|
I think the blizzard should not make hesitate decissions about buffing/nerffing. Although if this continues month or two without any real development and win rate for protoss still drops more down, then blizzard definitely should look more.
|
On August 09 2011 23:59 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 23:57 Denzil wrote:On August 09 2011 23:55 RaKooNs wrote:
I feel that zealot archon is the way forward with protoss..... It is but Protoss place their Twilight council in easily droppable positions and then it gets sniped and they lose the game. You are not contributing anything to this thread at all.
What did you expect this thread to have then?
Terrans and Zergs coming in here and saying you know what, Protoss is being played perfectly recently and you're still losing. I'm going to send a petition to Blizzard to have you guys buffed.
|
On August 09 2011 23:46 Olsson wrote:
I just think it's funny. Because zerg got a change to infestor a month after they learned how to use it. The 7 months before the infestor buff protoss vs zerg was so one-sided and zerg couldn't really do much. People here are retarded because they use an argument that works against themselves. For example "Zerg didn't change style they only rid roach hydra corruptor a-move into deathball". Well Zerg has changed style now but protoss havn't. Again use the fucking anti-caster feedback is soo good. One HT can take four infestors with feedback, HT is also cheaper than infestors.
I agree that protoss doesn't really have that good harassment options though they have the fastest units in the game (pheonix, upgraded warp prism). I think it mostly needs a metagame shift like zerg had. Alot of zergs still win vs protosses without infestors (Losira, Nestea) because they got the timings figured out and just outplay their protoss opponent.
ANSWER TO SENTRY/MUTA Harass.
What's more of an investment, four mutas or four sentries with a warp prism. Four mutas are more expensive and are higher tech and takes longer to get.
Protoss vs Zerg was never "one sided". Only people like Idra and his fanboys made it sound like that.
|
And other thing i see with other races is that protoss isnt funny race,u cant drop with medivacs harass and just beat someone with bad multitasking within 10mins
You cant drop banelings nydus and totally rip your opponent with zerg.. its just not like that
|
funny how people argue about imbalance in a game that has things like auto-surrounds, smart-fire, smart-casts, unlimited control group sizes and a counter-damage type system with only 2 damage types and armros + neutral, but that aside...
lets wait till people start using more hotkeys for their army, know how to spread out their units, put the 'in-game-do-for-you' elements out of their play and compete on a level of their own skill that they bring into the game, like their hand speed and reflexes, because atm "the community" complains about situations where pro-players just sit and macro while doing jack or the possible minimum to control their armies properly and lose games because of this - way to go! Now go finish your middle school, you bunch of homegrown pros
|
On August 10 2011 00:05 Crying wrote:
And other thing i see with other races is that protoss isnt funny race,u cant drop with medivacs harass and just beat someone with bad multitasking within 10mins
You cant drop banelings nydus and totally rip your opponent with zerg.. its just not like that
Why can't you?
It's doable in the game if you have the ability to do it.
|
I'm curious if incorporating phoenix play won't somehow automatically counter this build, obviously the problem is getting the robo timing correctly to deal with cloaked banshees, but i think phoenixes basically help make this build a huge risk and subsequently stoppable, while presenting harassment options as well.
|
On August 09 2011 23:57 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 23:55 RaKooNs wrote:
I feel that zealot archon is the way forward with protoss..... Zealot archon is an amazing late-game composition. However, it has some issues earlier imo - it needs a lot of infrastructure to really get going, and is thus pretty vulnerable to a lot of midgame timings. A risk you have to take and can work around, I guess. I don't think it's much help against one-base allins, anyway :p
It's actually better in midgame and small numbers, once Terran has lots of Ghosts and an appropiate MMM ball you need to switch to Colossi.
|
I laugh at people coming in here saying that protoss is the worst race. Zerg and Protoss is undeniably the races that needs units added to them while Terran is the complete one. This thread is not for balance whining saying that Terran is a better race. Zerg is the race with most metagame shifts and this is because of the early stages of the game release zerg has issues with protoss deathball so they've had to change it up alot until finally infestors became usefull. Protoss recently just started to switch up their play, still doing 200/200 passive forge expand pushes with colossi and stalkers. Change it up, you have harassment units you just won't use them. A warp prism upgraded is the fastest in the game next to the phoenix.
|
On August 10 2011 00:02 Warrice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 00:00 Heavenly wrote:On August 09 2011 23:59 Warrice wrote:+ Show Spoiler +mc went to up and down because he didnt scout the all in that was being done by noblesse. and he got severely outplayed by MVP. + Show Spoiler +He moved to MC's base with an army that MC was incapable of engaging at the moment until his tech kicked in, then bunkered it up due to the map design. He executed a build that any other terran could have executed. He didn't outplay MC in any way. + Show Spoiler + MC couldv scouted the push was coming and reacted. you cant just say he couldnt deal with it and be done with it. Yeah, he couldnt deal with it at the time, maybe he got build ordered. Maybe if he wouldv had more gateways he couldv stopped it before the bunkers came up.
+ Show Spoiler +He scouted mass marine/banshee/tank off two base with his obs and went colossi as a response, which is completely reasonable and the best way to hold mass marines. If he hadn't gone colossi then what was he going to do, tech to storm instead? There was no way his army could have engaged MVP at any time and his army was positioned mostly behind the building bunkers to deal with MC's largely zealot army (again, the proper response). And he did scout the push, he knew what was at his front door. How can you say MVP outplayed him when it solely came down to the limitations of the races they play that put MC in a horrible position? Do you think MVP would still outplay MC if they switched roles and MC executed the same build?
|
MC would have won both of those games with immortals. vs MVP, there weren't even enough marines to justify colsi being needed. the bunkers and the tanks were the winners, versus no immortal thats gg. gateway + immortal is on equal footing with 1-1-1.
versus noblesse MC just didnt have enough units, but had a robo that was mostly idle, used only for an obs. i feel like he KNEW an all-in was coming, and that he could hold with his skill and FF. which works versus an inferior player but not versus a player thats almost as good as you.
gateway loses to MMM, i think this is like the first thing anyone should learn about starcraft, medivacs are the point when terran becomes stronger than a gateway toss. immortals and charge are how the protoss equalizes.
|
On August 10 2011 00:01 StarscreamG1 wrote:
Warp Prism buff NEEDS to occur.
yes please.
|
Marines eat Phoenixes.
One thing that is holding back development toward a solution to the 1-1-1 is people theorycrafting like this. I'm considering creating a thread for others to look at regarding the 1-1-1 with the many professional replays I have of the games. Maybe if someone else studies them, a solution will come.
|
I feel as though if the Robotic Bay had an upgrade for Immortal speed (just like observer and warp prisim), Protoss would have a decent harrass unit.
|
State of Protoss is not the problem. State of Terran seems to be causing all the problems....
|
On August 10 2011 00:08 fritos wrote:
State of Protoss is not the problem. State of Terran seems to be causing all the problems....
Care to elaborate?
|
On August 10 2011 00:03 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 23:59 Heavenly wrote:On August 09 2011 23:57 Denzil wrote:On August 09 2011 23:55 RaKooNs wrote:
I feel that zealot archon is the way forward with protoss..... It is but Protoss place their Twilight council in easily droppable positions and then it gets sniped and they lose the game. You are not contributing anything to this thread at all. What did you expect this thread to have then? Terrans and Zergs coming in here and saying you know what, Protoss is being played perfectly recently and you're still losing. I'm going to send a petition to Blizzard to have you guys buffed.
Um, I came in here expecting an intelligent discussion, not you making snide comments like "protoss players just aren't smart enough to not have their twilight council picked off by a drop" and trying to factor in the cost of getting a lair in how much banelings cost. You haven't provided a single intelligent post this entire thread. And you are discussing just random stuff in the first place when the "state of protoss" clearly revolves around early game and you're part of the crew saying "USE MORE WARP PRISM PLAY" as if it was relevant.
|
We should sent Day[9] alot of PvT 1,1,1 all ins and he can do a really professional review and come with a solution.
Since HUK died to GanZi in MLG to a 1,1,1 i heard and MC died to Bomber to 1,1,1 i dont know
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
