Hello TL,
This is not a balance whine,its a pure discussion on what should be done

Its been along time since this was discussed and i though i can give it a try,seeing that protoss isn't doing great at all,and also seeing + Show Spoiler +

MC goes in Up&Down (what)??

Does the protoss need a metagame shift?Or we don't have a good smart player that will lead us to better presentation?
What do you guys think?What should be done?I hope that thread will be a good discussion on what we should do and what we should improve or see..

Please NO FLAMING in my thread and the bashing will also be forbidden.
This is not a balance whine its just a discussion on what we should do.

Admins,please let us discuss that state of the protoss that we are in and don't close the thread.
Thanks if its fulfilled
International WinRate%

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Korean WinRate%

[image loading]

Also:

On August 09 2011 22:53 Sated wrote:
Don't forget this data: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=252455

Individual League Winners and Runner-Ups (48 Events. 13 events missing data.):

First place:
Terran - 21
Zerg - 11
Protoss - 3

Second place:
Terran - 20
Zerg - 9
Protoss - 6

Totals:
Terran - 41
Zerg - 20
Protoss - 9

Some other stats here:

+ Show Spoiler +

On August 09 2011 06:35 stormfoxSC wrote:
I went through the international individual leagues, for the sake of augmenting the OP with a larger data set. Korea is good to look at, but the data set is very small (and only incorporates the Korean state of the game, so to speak).

Individual League Winners & Runner-Ups (1061 events):

First Place
Terran - 498 (46.94%)
Zerg - 263 (24.79%)
Protoss - 264 (24.88%)
Unknown - 36 (3.39%)

Second Place
Terran - 433 (40.81%)
Zerg - 299 (28.18%)
Protoss - 290 (27.33%)
Unknown - 39 (3.68%)*

Total Finals Appearances (1st + 2nd combined)
Terran - 931 (43.87%)
Zerg - 562 (26.48%)
Protoss - 552 (26.11%)
Unknown - 75 (3.53%)*

Bonus! Since we know that the balance of the game has changed radically between 2010 and 2011 thanks to the great patches Blizzard has released, let's break down the data between these two years.

Individual League Winners & Runner-Ups for 2010 (358 events):

First Place
Terran - 206 (57.54%)
Zerg - 49 (13.69%)
Protoss - 88 (24.58%)
Unknown - 15 (4.19%)

Second Place
Terran - 159 (44.41%)
Zerg - 91 (25.42%)
Protoss - 93 (25.98%)
Unknown - 15 (4.19%)*

Total Finals Appearances (1st + 2nd combined)
Terran - 365 (50.98%)
Zerg - 140 (19.55%)
Protoss - 181 (25.28%)
Unknown - 30 (4.19%)*

Individual League Winners & Runner-Ups for 2011 (703 events):

First Place
Terran - 292 (41.54%)
Zerg - 214 (30.44%)
Protoss - 176 (25.04%)
Unknown - 21 (2.99%)

Second Place
Terran - 274 (38.98%)
Zerg - 208 (29.59%)
Protoss - 197 (28.02%)
Unknown - 24 (3.41%)*

Total Finals Appearances (1st + 2nd combined)
Terran - 566 (40.26%)
Zerg - 422 (30.01%)
Protoss - 373 (26.53%)
Unknown - 45 (3.20%)*

And of course, SC2Statistics!

[image loading]

Non-mirror winrates by race for July:
Terran: 54.2%
Zerg: 48.6%
Protoss: 46.7%

Winrates by matchup for July:
TvZ: 55.4%
PvT: 47.2%
ZvP: 53.8%

Average winrates by race (overall):
Terran: 53.1%
Zerg: 47.1%
Protoss: 48.9%

Average winrates by matchup (overall):
TvZ: 54.8%
PvT: 48.4%
ZvP: 49.7%

Average winrates by race (2010):
Terran: 54.4%
Zerg: 45.8%
Protoss: 48.4%

Average winrates by matchup (2010):
TvZ: 55.5%
PvT: 46.6%
ZvP: 47.9%

Average winrates by race (2011):
Terran: 52.3%
Zerg: 47.9%
Protoss: 49.2%

Average winrates by matchup (2011):
TvZ: 54.4%
PvT: 49.4%
ZvP: 50.8%

-------------------

* Random finals appearances are included in the Unknown column, since I was too lazy to make an entirely new column of data for a few data points (<5) that only appear for runner-up (there were no random 1st place wins).

AXygnus

Portugal1008 Posts

August 09 2011 14:05 GMT

Carriers, it must have carriers, since we never even use them...

Crying

Bulgaria778 Posts

August 09 2011 14:06 GMT

Yea but carriers are alot of gas and minerals ,and since we can't defend alot, massing cariers is only avialable in lower leagues,not in masters.And pretty much corruptors and vikings totally shut down carriers in bigger numbers (for the vikings)

Xahhk

Canada540 Posts

August 09 2011 14:06 GMT

Do you know how to use spoilers? Fuck you.

Q8_Devil

United Kingdom63 Posts

August 09 2011 14:06 GMT

MC led protosses for month's now through tvz and tvp.
look forward for puzzle and hongun, they have pretty good builds.

Alejandrisha

United States6565 Posts

August 09 2011 14:06 GMT

WrathOfAiur

Germany243 Posts

August 09 2011 14:06 GMT

On August 09 2011 23:04 Crying wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

and also seeing MC goes in Up&Down (what)??

thx....

EchoZ

Japan5041 Posts

August 09 2011 14:07 GMT

Maybe revert some of the nerfs? Gotta ask the progamers for expert opinion first though.

Grampz

United States2147 Posts

August 09 2011 14:07 GMT

On August 09 2011 23:06 Xahhk wrote:
Do you know how to use spoilers? Fuck you.

lol seriously at least put in title

KiNGxXx

7928 Posts

August 09 2011 14:07 GMT

#10

Huge spoiler of + Show Spoiler +

GSL

. You might wanna edit your post.

Alejandrisha

United States6565 Posts

August 09 2011 14:07 GMT

#11

well there goes my gsl viewing experience for the morning.

1Lamb1Rice

United States435 Posts

August 09 2011 14:07 GMT

#12

when will people learn...

Darneck

Sweden1394 Posts

August 09 2011 14:07 GMT

#13

Carriers would be excellent vs the 1-1-1 push but is it possible getting them fast enough in anyway after you know that the push is coming?

Olsson

Sweden931 Posts

August 09 2011 14:07 GMT

#14

+ Show Spoiler +

I think this is a balance whine thread beneath the layer. You're saying that MC goes in Up&Down but it's not logical because he's a good player henceforth the "what??". It's because he just like Jinro probably isn't motivated to practice and isn't as good right now anymore.

In my opinion protosses have been doing the same thing for a year now and they need to start doing drops and more aggressive things.

KiNGxXx

7928 Posts

August 09 2011 14:08 GMT

#15

On August 09 2011 23:07 Alejandrisha wrote:
well there goes my gsl viewing experience for the morning.

And that is why you quote the spoiler?

dani`

Netherlands2402 Posts

August 09 2011 14:09 GMT

#16

The biggest thing I notice is how hard it is to punish greedy builds by Zerg / Terran. Many people would say 'you have 4 gate what are you talking about', but I don't want to all-in, just punish and get ahead. I want reliable harass / scouting options early game. I'm looking at stuff like Reaper / Helion / Banshee which provide excellent harassment options while allowing regular macro behind it, unlike 4 gate which has to do massive damage or outright kill to be considered 'viable'.

Luckily, Dustin Browder recently also mentioned something about a possible new harassment unit in HotS so I hope they will indeed happen =)

Crying

Bulgaria778 Posts

August 09 2011 14:09 GMT

#17

Sorry guys, i spoiled it , i put a spoiler tag just to reasure noone else sees it

BTW agressive drops can kill you sometimes...

Zaros

United Kingdom3692 Posts

August 09 2011 14:10 GMT

#18

Well the comman consensus is that protoss needs a unit that can harrass otherwise the protoss has to play almost perfectly to not fall behind against the other races as it is hard to get ahead without such a harrass unit.

Such a unit would have to do splash damage and be reasonably priced like the blue flame hellion or banelings. The only thing that current fits the bill is High Templar doing storm drops, but high templar are incredably expensive on gas and are very high up in the tech tree. If you are getting templar quickly you genrally need the storms to survive frontal assaults and combined with the warp prism fragility you can easily lose them for no damage.

Workers can also run away from storms compared with blue flame hellions there is no running away only splitting and with banelings they make up for the ability to run away with the insane damage they can do in a second.

So at the moment i don't think protoss have a unit that can fulfill this role and so mabye that is what is holding back protoss at the moment.

Roggay

Switzerland6320 Posts

August 09 2011 14:10 GMT

#19

You need to learn to use spoilers if you don't want to be warned/banned.

Also, I don't think this thread is a particularly good idea.

And the fact that your name is "Crying" is pretty ironic.

Kevan

Sweden2303 Posts

August 09 2011 14:10 GMT

#20

Give it time. If it still seems imbalanced then it will probably get fixed.