EPTState of the Protoss - Page 3
| Forum Index > Closed |
|
Zaurus
Singapore676 Posts
| ||
|
ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On August 09 2011 23:16 klops wrote: mc went hallucination vs a raven. pretty sure hallucinations when in detection get lower attack priority from the tanks and are wasted space. can correct me if i'm wrong, haven't played in awhile. You're correct, but if they are sent in first they will still be attacked and absorb a decent amount of damage. | ||
|
lunchforthesky
United Kingdom967 Posts
On August 09 2011 23:10 Stijx wrote: Now see, this kind of leaves me stumped too... Zerg used to be the "QQ" race and now that they're all using infestors they tell everyone else "well work it out"... Now Zerg changed their position by using a previously unused unit (and still have a couple of unused utilities), but here I can't help but feel that Protoss actually doesn't have anything unexplored. The only way I've been beating Ghosts and Infestors recently is by putting my HTs in a warp prism and bringing them in from a different angle... I think about our other units (Carriers and the Mothership) and they are just not worth the investment. In long macro games I only seem to win because an opponent messes up or forgets to inject larvae for ever and ever... I think Protoss needs a new utility, something more efficient for harass, or maybe just give the Warp Prism some more health. Speed-Prisms are pretty boss. Zergs don't all use Infestors. Losira and Nestea are by far the best ZvPers in the world and neither use Infestors regularly. They just understand the timings of the match ups. | ||
|
theBALLS
Singapore2935 Posts
On August 09 2011 23:13 BronzeKnee wrote: I didn't get the chance to watch the match, but I have a question: + Show Spoiler + Did Noblesse 1-1-1 MC? + Show Spoiler + nope he didn't, but it was still a sort of all in which MC saw coming. I think its safe to say that MC has one of the best mechanics for P. If he knows exactly whats coming, yet fails to respond to it, what hope do the rest of us have  It's also not just this one occasion, but several forms of T all ins have literally worked in 90% of situations against P. Esp the 1-1-1 banshee, tank, marine, marauder. | ||
|
lunchforthesky
United Kingdom967 Posts
On August 09 2011 23:10 Crying wrote: I sometimes dream about a harass unit man...In mid - late game protoss has no reliable harass units that deal massive damage for a short period (Ex.Reaver in BW) Storm drops arent cost effective - if u get caught u die And pretty much if u storm workers u wont have storm to stop pushes.. simply You have DT's. | ||
|
Heavenly
2172 Posts
On August 09 2011 23:16 klops wrote: + Show Spoiler + mc went hallucination vs a raven. pretty sure hallucinations when in detection get lower attack priority from the tanks and are wasted space. can correct me if i'm wrong, haven't played in awhile. + Show Spoiler + Who cares even if it was a big blunder? Would 100/100 elsewhere and more sentry energy have done anything to stop MVP from losing like one bunker and a couple marines compared to MC losing almost everything? | ||
|
Olsson
Sweden931 Posts
On August 09 2011 23:10 Stijx wrote: Now see, this kind of leaves me stumped too... Zerg used to be the "QQ" race and now that they're all using infestors they tell everyone else "well work it out"... Now Zerg changed their position by using a previously unused unit (and still have a couple of unused utilities), but here I can't help but feel that Protoss actually doesn't have anything unexplored. The only way I've been beating Ghosts and Infestors recently is by putting my HTs in a warp prism and bringing them in from a different angle... I think about our other units (Carriers and the Mothership) and they are just not worth the investment. In long macro games I only seem to win because an opponent messes up or forgets to inject larvae for ever and ever... I think Protoss needs a new utility, something more efficient for harass, or maybe just give the Warp Prism some more health. Speed-Prisms are pretty boss. Oh cry. Zerg had months of issues against both terran and protosses. It wasn't until the infestor buff they figured it out and even then they had to start using and experimenting with infestors for a month or so. Terrans rarely use ghosts even now same goes with Protoss. T and P have anti-casters with feedback/emp but zerg doesn't. Use your anti-casters. One HT can take care of four infestors, EMP 7 range but feedback and fungal same range | ||
|
TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
This is not a balance whine,its a pure discussion on what should be done This seems contradictory. MC goes in Up&Down (what)?? So? MVP has dropped to Code A before. I'm for reasonable balance discussions as much as anybody but this is such a horrible and insufficient basis for one. I mean I could just as easily counter your argument with the fact that Tassadar won Code A... If you really want to have a discussion, bring up winrates, compare winrates now to win rates before, mention some relevant patch changes that might have caused the problem, look at matchup statistics, etc. Is Protoss realy broken? Or is PvT broken? Or is one particular PvT all in broken? | ||
|
Gutrot
122 Posts
Sorry I whined in your non whining thread. | ||
|
Joey Wheeler
Korea (North)276 Posts
Most problems with Protoss (apart from dealing with the 1/1/1 allin) is that you're unable to use your spellcasters. So the solution is simple: spread out your casters. Terran complain that Infestors are hard to EMP, even though for them to land a full fungal it takes 7 range. HT, however, have 9 range. Therefore with a well positioned deathball EMPs will be far less effective on sentries (meaning you can abuse the lack of mobility if used properly), and of course High Templar. Compare PvT to PvZ and you see PvZ has a far more balanced winrate because Zerg don't have ghosts, therefore it's clear what the problem is here. | ||
|
klops
United States674 Posts
On August 09 2011 23:17 ZAiNs wrote: You're correct, but if they are sent in first they will still be attacked and absorb a decent amount of damage. i added a spoiler tag to my original post if you don't mind editing yours. | ||
|
Crying
Bulgaria778 Posts
If the best can't do anything about,then what leaves for us,the players that try to play the game? | ||
|
lunchforthesky
United Kingdom967 Posts
On August 09 2011 23:19 Gutrot wrote: Generally I feel Protoss early game is very binary vs zerg and terran. I feel they have alot more one base options than we do, I feel they have alot more safer expand options than we do. I feel they have better harass. Sorry I whined in your non whining thread. None of that is true for Zerg. | ||
|
Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
Analyze MC's style and you'll hardly notice any of the innovation that BoxeR, White-Ra and NesTea uses, MC is all about crisp micro+builds+aggression. Most of his games are actually just standard protoss but his opponents get so stressed out that they lose the game for him rather than MC winning it. My point is; MC Is kind of like MarineKingPrime... once people realize he's just offensive and has some tricks up his sleeve there isn't much to it. White-Ra on the other hand is a huge innovator and ALWAYS finds way to use his units to the fullest, be it running the first colossus across the map to a semi-contained terran and just sniping 4 marines and 2 depots; He used the colossus as a mobile tank... why don't any other protoss do that? He uses dark templars as blitz soldiers, he uses warp prism, he uses alot of funny but also useful tricks much like BoxeR's infinate drops and NesTea's spinecrawler rush etc. Now I know people will argue and say MC and HuK are great, of which I don't agree of. I think they're good players and have practiced alot, but I think given the same time AND (and this is VERY important) confidence, BoxeR, Jinro and others would be much MUCH better. Yeah forcefield micro is great and all but it is hardly the NesTea level of play that'll put a protoss up there alongside him. EDIT: Also thanks for spoilering. | ||
|
Denzil
United Kingdom4193 Posts
How many of you guys regularly use Warp prisms to harass? Use carriers more try I don't know Carrier harass? How many of you use Immortal drops to pick off important tech structures? Or colossus drops to roast workers from afar? Also if you're complaining about EMP or Fungals, spread your army out, it annoys me when Protoss whine about how OP fungal is but keep their army in a ball that is covered in 1 fungal | ||
|
Proko
United States1022 Posts
On August 09 2011 23:05 AXygnus wrote: Carriers, it must have carriers, since we never even use them... San makes carriers PvZ and PvT and wins, but I don't think it's a really great strat. I think we desperately need an innovator to help toss see how to play better, our innovators now are only Tyler, maybe Sage... Alicia? nobody top-top tier is altering the Protoss metagame. | ||
|
Severian
Australia2052 Posts
On August 09 2011 23:17 ZAiNs wrote: You're correct, but if they are sent in first they will still be attacked and absorb a decent amount of damage. Plus MC had a ton of Sentries, and it's not like their energy could have been better spent. They did absorb a few shots at the beginning of the battle. | ||
|
Govou
Canada1072 Posts
| ||
|
Cosmos
Belgium1077 Posts
On August 09 2011 23:06 Crying wrote: Yea but carriers are alot of gas and minerals ,and since we can't defend alot, massing cariers is only avialable in lower leagues,not in masters.And pretty much corruptors and vikings totally shut down carriers in bigger numbers (for the vikings) That's not true, carrier destroy viking or even marines, the counter as terran of carrier is the BC, I think carrier should be used way more, I myself try them but it is hard to find good timings. | ||
|
Heavenly
2172 Posts
On August 09 2011 23:19 Olsson wrote: Oh cry. Zerg had months of issues against both terran and protosses. It wasn't until the infestor buff they figured it out and even then they had to start using and experimenting with infestors for a month or so. Terrans rarely use ghosts even now same goes with Protoss. T and P have anti-casters with feedback/emp but zerg doesn't. Use your anti-casters. One HT can take care of four infestors, EMP, Feedback, Fungal all have the same range. Zerg had months of a-moving roach/hydra into stalker/colossi. | ||
| ||
