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Recommended Games+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +Poll: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 1?Yes (29) 94% If you have time (2) 6% No (0) 0% 31 total votes Your vote: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 1? (Vote): Yes
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Poll: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 7?Yes (27) 68% No (13) 33% If you have time (0) 0% 40 total votes Your vote: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 7? (Vote): Yes
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United States10420 Posts
On May 27 2026 02:10 Mumei wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2026 15:24 FlaShFTW wrote:
Ok, let's review the game state at 3:41, which is where I felt the critical moment of the game occurs.
1. FlaSh has just gotten his bunker up with a marine inside.
2. Upon seeing the bunker finish, Soma elects to runby into the main. The units that survive the runby are as follows: 3 speedlings, 2 drones.
3. FlaSh's supply is 18/36, with no SCVs producing and 1 marine in production. He has 2 marines (1 in bunker, one that was just made). Therefore, we know that he has 15 scvs alive at this moment (18-3=15). 14 are in his base, 1 is scouting and about to enter Soma's main.
4. Soma's supply is 14/17. He has 3 lings in FlaSh's main and 2 drones (4 supply). He has 3 more pairs of lings currently running across the map (FlaSh's natural ramp, center of the map, and his own natural). We also know that he has another pair of lings in production (at 3:58, we see the lings running across the map). Based on this information, we know that Soma has 6 supply of zerglings, 2 supply of drones in FlaSh's main, and the rest are drones in his base, so he only has 6 drones mining.
5. FlaSh only has 77 minerals while Soma has 300 minerals and 116 gas.
So to check our work, FlaSh has 14 scvs in his base (1 scout), 2 marines. 1 barracks with building marine, and 2 CC. His sim city is at his natural, with only a 77 mineral bank.
Soma has 6 drones mining, 2 drones and 3 lings inside of FlaSh's main with rallied zerglings. He has speed, and a reasonable bank of 300/100.
If at this moment, FlaSh lifts his main CC and runs his SCVs to the natural to mine and protect the bunker, I feel he is in advantageous state. Yes, he will not be mining for a brief moment as his main SCVs transfer to the natural, but he also has 9 SCVs already at the natural that were attempting to hold off the attack. Those 9 scvs can get to mining on 7 patches very quickly, and he can begin to also make more SCVs from his natural CC. The 5 SCVs that transfer can hold the bunker with 2 marines inside. 7 patches should be more than enough to stabilize, nonstop produce marines (no supply depots needed for a long time as he has the 2 CCs providing ample supply), re-establish the wall to prevent further ling runbys, and tech to 2 rax acad and retake the main.
Soma has two choices: he could either expand off 6 drones and take a natural and begin to drone, or he could keep the pressure and tech to lair while droning behind. But, Soma does not have larva banked up as he was constantly producing zerglings to aid the attack. So if he expands, his extremely low drone count would make it very difficult to catch up to FlaSh's already established 9 SCV economy (assuming he uses the main 5 SCVs to guard the bunker). If he techs, lair is going to be 63 seconds away, with the next piece of tech being either muta or lurker which will be another 2 minutes away after that for mutas, even longer for lurkers. More than enough time for FlaSh to have produced enough marines to retake his main and establish a reasonable 2 base, 2 rax academy setup. Also, FlaSh knows all of this (or should know all of this) because he has that 1 scout in Soma's base. He should know that Soma's economic and tech position was still in the stone age.
FlaSh instead tries to fend off the runby with SCVs and one singular marine. 2 more lings runby to now make it 5 total lings, and with speed instantly kill the marine and an SCV. But 1 pair of lings dies trying to runby after the marine dies.
At 4:00 now, the supplies are 13 for Soma (same position basically but now 5 vs 3 lings) and 17 for FlaSh. Essentially, subtract 1 supply of lings and 1 marine and SCV from FlaSh. He still had the opportunity to cut his losses protecting the main and flee to the natural here. Soma still doesn't have lair started, or his natural hatch started, which he only starts at 4:15. Once FlaSh lost that one marine, it was impossible to defend the main with reasonable efficiency against 5 speedlings and 2 drones. He would slowly have his main SCVs get picked off one by one.
The second runby seals the deal, with 5 more reinforcing. FlaSh FINALLY pulls the SCVs and sends his 4 marines up to defend the main (why didn't he fight with his SCVs?) and gets surrounded of course and loses.
I'm not blaming FlaSh by the way, the game was a very chaotic situation, and FlaSh's mentality likely was to crush the runby and win the game right there and then. He did not want to get drawn out into an awkward position that could turn into a longer game of attrition, as this was game 7 and his wrists were clearly deteriorating.
I also understand that Soma's perspective is that he was ahead after the runby. But according to Jinjin, he says that "I can continuously disrupt mining". But look at the position of FlaSh's bunker. How will he disrupt natural mining when the bunker is positioned so well. If Soma wants to commit to harassing the mineral line, the lings would come into the bunker's range. The interviewer also mentions "there wasn't enough workers mining". But FlaSh has 9 SCVs in the natural. Even if we assume that FlaSh will play on the safer side and use some SCVs to hold the wall, he still has some income while the main SCVs are transferred and he has 77 minerals to at least begin producing an SCV from the natural.
(By the way, using Soma's words and opinion about the position of the game without actually looking at the underlying facts is an appeal to authority. Look at the underlying facts, not just what Soma was saying). I think in a few places you overrate Flash's position by making reference to his SCV count rather than his mining SCVs. For example, you say at 3:41 "FlaSh has 14 scvs in his base". Sure, maybe, but 8 of them are trying to defend. They aren't mining, and even after he sends some of them to mine about 20 seconds later, Soma's lings force him to pull off mining pretty quickly. At 4:05 he dives in to kill an SCV and it gets to red before the obs checks the front, and then after an unnecessary crowd shot we're looking at Flash's main at 4:11 and 6 of 9 SCVs aren't mining because they are responding to the threat from a few seconds earlier, and even though they do go back to mining pretty quickly, if you keep watching you keep seeing lost mining from the harassment. That whole sequence also coincides with the moment when Flash starts a second Barracks, realizes he has 9 minerals with not enough income, and cancels it.
I don't really care about anything that happens after the 4th and 5th ling runby and kill FlaSh's 2nd marine. The game is over at that point because FlaSh did not respond correctly (in my view). I'm talking about the moment the first runby happens and FlaSh has 9 SCVs positioned in the natural that can run over and mine immediately. Your discussion of 4:05 and 4:11 are totally irrelevant, I've already conceded that FlaSh had lost by that point, or that even a last ditch evac to the natural would still put him severely behind.
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United States10420 Posts
On May 27 2026 02:26 WombaT wrote:
Not a BW expert like some of you folks! Know more than most but I know my limits haha
How’s Soma able to be such an outlier in not only being competitive but Championship tier where basically nobody else outside of the Kespa regime can even manage to be a solid Ro16/Ro8 lock? Just a special talent or is he doing certain things others aren’t?
He has the micro and aggression of Effort/Jaedong, the intelligence of Soulkey, the optimization of FlaSh, and the craziness to gamble of Mini. It makes him an absolute demon to play against in BoX formats.
On May 26 2026 19:18 Zergxhx wrote:
Geez, a group of fools really think they have more accurate judgments than a dozen professional players
Rather than just mindlessly regurgitate what pros are saying and having no real thoughts of your own, why not actually think about it independently? Otherwise, don't post, it contributes literally nothing to the discussion.
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Truly a worthy champion, and he won in a beautiful finals..
This level of play that we've seen in the Light vs Flash TvT and in this TvZ finals, is the kind of stuff you only see in sports where the pros have truly mastered their craft.
THIS IS STARCRAFT and I'll always be here for it.
What a perfect final series.
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On May 27 2026 02:10 Mumei wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2026 15:24 FlaShFTW wrote:
Ok, let's review the game state at 3:41, which is where I felt the critical moment of the game occurs.
1. FlaSh has just gotten his bunker up with a marine inside.
2. Upon seeing the bunker finish, Soma elects to runby into the main. The units that survive the runby are as follows: 3 speedlings, 2 drones.
3. FlaSh's supply is 18/36, with no SCVs producing and 1 marine in production. He has 2 marines (1 in bunker, one that was just made). Therefore, we know that he has 15 scvs alive at this moment (18-3=15). 14 are in his base, 1 is scouting and about to enter Soma's main.
4. Soma's supply is 14/17. He has 3 lings in FlaSh's main and 2 drones (4 supply). He has 3 more pairs of lings currently running across the map (FlaSh's natural ramp, center of the map, and his own natural). We also know that he has another pair of lings in production (at 3:58, we see the lings running across the map). Based on this information, we know that Soma has 6 supply of zerglings, 2 supply of drones in FlaSh's main, and the rest are drones in his base, so he only has 6 drones mining.
5. FlaSh only has 77 minerals while Soma has 300 minerals and 116 gas.
So to check our work, FlaSh has 14 scvs in his base (1 scout), 2 marines. 1 barracks with building marine, and 2 CC. His sim city is at his natural, with only a 77 mineral bank.
Soma has 6 drones mining, 2 drones and 3 lings inside of FlaSh's main with rallied zerglings. He has speed, and a reasonable bank of 300/100.
If at this moment, FlaSh lifts his main CC and runs his SCVs to the natural to mine and protect the bunker, I feel he is in advantageous state. Yes, he will not be mining for a brief moment as his main SCVs transfer to the natural, but he also has 9 SCVs already at the natural that were attempting to hold off the attack. Those 9 scvs can get to mining on 7 patches very quickly, and he can begin to also make more SCVs from his natural CC. The 5 SCVs that transfer can hold the bunker with 2 marines inside. 7 patches should be more than enough to stabilize, nonstop produce marines (no supply depots needed for a long time as he has the 2 CCs providing ample supply), re-establish the wall to prevent further ling runbys, and tech to 2 rax acad and retake the main.
Soma has two choices: he could either expand off 6 drones and take a natural and begin to drone, or he could keep the pressure and tech to lair while droning behind. But, Soma does not have larva banked up as he was constantly producing zerglings to aid the attack. So if he expands, his extremely low drone count would make it very difficult to catch up to FlaSh's already established 9 SCV economy (assuming he uses the main 5 SCVs to guard the bunker). If he techs, lair is going to be 63 seconds away, with the next piece of tech being either muta or lurker which will be another 2 minutes away after that for mutas, even longer for lurkers. More than enough time for FlaSh to have produced enough marines to retake his main and establish a reasonable 2 base, 2 rax academy setup. Also, FlaSh knows all of this (or should know all of this) because he has that 1 scout in Soma's base. He should know that Soma's economic and tech position was still in the stone age.
FlaSh instead tries to fend off the runby with SCVs and one singular marine. 2 more lings runby to now make it 5 total lings, and with speed instantly kill the marine and an SCV. But 1 pair of lings dies trying to runby after the marine dies.
At 4:00 now, the supplies are 13 for Soma (same position basically but now 5 vs 3 lings) and 17 for FlaSh. Essentially, subtract 1 supply of lings and 1 marine and SCV from FlaSh. He still had the opportunity to cut his losses protecting the main and flee to the natural here. Soma still doesn't have lair started, or his natural hatch started, which he only starts at 4:15. Once FlaSh lost that one marine, it was impossible to defend the main with reasonable efficiency against 5 speedlings and 2 drones. He would slowly have his main SCVs get picked off one by one.
The second runby seals the deal, with 5 more reinforcing. FlaSh FINALLY pulls the SCVs and sends his 4 marines up to defend the main (why didn't he fight with his SCVs?) and gets surrounded of course and loses.
I'm not blaming FlaSh by the way, the game was a very chaotic situation, and FlaSh's mentality likely was to crush the runby and win the game right there and then. He did not want to get drawn out into an awkward position that could turn into a longer game of attrition, as this was game 7 and his wrists were clearly deteriorating.
I also understand that Soma's perspective is that he was ahead after the runby. But according to Jinjin, he says that "I can continuously disrupt mining". But look at the position of FlaSh's bunker. How will he disrupt natural mining when the bunker is positioned so well. If Soma wants to commit to harassing the mineral line, the lings would come into the bunker's range. The interviewer also mentions "there wasn't enough workers mining". But FlaSh has 9 SCVs in the natural. Even if we assume that FlaSh will play on the safer side and use some SCVs to hold the wall, he still has some income while the main SCVs are transferred and he has 77 minerals to at least begin producing an SCV from the natural.
(By the way, using Soma's words and opinion about the position of the game without actually looking at the underlying facts is an appeal to authority. Look at the underlying facts, not just what Soma was saying). I think in a few places you overrate Flash's position by making reference to his SCV count rather than his mining SCVs. For example, you say at 3:41 "FlaSh has 14 scvs in his base". Sure, maybe, but 8 of them are trying to defend. They aren't mining, and even after he sends some of them to mine about 20 seconds later, Soma's lings force him to pull off mining pretty quickly. At 4:05 he dives in to kill an SCV and it gets to red before the obs checks the front, and then after an unnecessary crowd shot we're looking at Flash's main at 4:11 and 6 of 9 SCVs aren't mining because they are responding to the threat from a few seconds earlier, and even though they do go back to mining pretty quickly, if you keep watching you keep seeing lost mining from the harassment. That whole sequence also coincides with the moment when Flash starts a second Barracks, realizes he has 9 minerals with not enough income, and cancels it. But isn't that exactly why he shoud have transferred everything to natural then? His SCVs in the main are neither mining nor winning the fight with speedlings. It's like a lose lose situation: there's no hope of holding the main, plus since the SCVs are all there they can't block the second run by either.
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I think if we have to put arbitrary numbers, Flash's chance of winning goes like this in that game:
- First marine pops out, bunker finishes, first 6 lings haven't arrived: 95%
- First marine gets blocked by his own SCV, can't go left, has to go around the Rax to enter bunker, late but gets in regardless: 90%
- SCVs fail to block runby, speed kicks in: 40-50% or even lower (this is the most debatable point)
- Second marine chases after the runby pack, gets killed by the 2 speedlings that follow after the first 6: 20%
- The 5 speedlings run rampant in his main while SCVs try to fight in vain: 10%
- The next pack of 6 lings run past the bunker again: 0%
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On May 27 2026 02:28 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2026 02:26 WombaT wrote:
Not a BW expert like some of you folks! Know more than most but I know my limits haha
How’s Soma able to be such an outlier in not only being competitive but Championship tier where basically nobody else outside of the Kespa regime can even manage to be a solid Ro16/Ro8 lock? Just a special talent or is he doing certain things others aren’t? He has the micro and aggression of Effort/Jaedong, the intelligence of Soulkey, the optimization of FlaSh, and the craziness to gamble of Mini. It makes him an absolute demon to play against in BoX formats. Show nested quote +On May 26 2026 19:18 Zergxhx wrote:
Geez, a group of fools really think they have more accurate judgments than a dozen professional players
Rather than just mindlessly regurgitate what pros are saying and having no real thoughts of your own, why not actually think about it independently? Otherwise, don't post, it contributes literally nothing to the discussion.
depending on how you look at it, it's mindlessly regurgitating what pros say and lacking independent thought, or it may come across as hubris, claiming to know better than industry experts.
IDK I heavily lean on favoring pro POV here. I don't agree with your term "obeying authority figures" as I see them more of industry experts than authority figure as it's their profession and they converse about these topic at highest level daily, whereas we are nowhere near their level of play/knowledge.
They live and breathed game for nearly 3 decades, lead forefront on meta shaping and understand game enough to optimize and create new builds, discuss and exchange information with each other on daily.
I don't understand how they are seen as just simple "authority figures" rather than industry experts/innovators in this sphere of topic
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Northern Ireland26865 Posts
If the pros are to be believed and thanks as ever Jinjin for the translation, they felt Flash won the build order roll in almost the entirety of the series, so for Soma to take it is even more impressive
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United States10420 Posts
On May 27 2026 02:53 jinjin5000 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2026 02:28 FlaShFTW wrote:On May 27 2026 02:26 WombaT wrote:
Not a BW expert like some of you folks! Know more than most but I know my limits haha
How’s Soma able to be such an outlier in not only being competitive but Championship tier where basically nobody else outside of the Kespa regime can even manage to be a solid Ro16/Ro8 lock? Just a special talent or is he doing certain things others aren’t? He has the micro and aggression of Effort/Jaedong, the intelligence of Soulkey, the optimization of FlaSh, and the craziness to gamble of Mini. It makes him an absolute demon to play against in BoX formats. On May 26 2026 19:18 Zergxhx wrote:
Geez, a group of fools really think they have more accurate judgments than a dozen professional players
Rather than just mindlessly regurgitate what pros are saying and having no real thoughts of your own, why not actually think about it independently? Otherwise, don't post, it contributes literally nothing to the discussion. depending on how you look at it, it's mindlessly regurgitating what pros say and lacking independent thought, or it may come across as hubris, claiming to know better than industry experts. IDK I heavily lean on favoring pro POV here. I don't agree with your term "obeying authority figures" as I see them more of industry experts than authority figure as it's their profession and they converse about these topic at highest level daily, whereas we are nowhere near their level of play/knowledge.
Experts are experts for a reason, yes. But they also need to show their work for how they reached their conclusion, especially if people have a reasonable amount of understanding of the subject matter. I don't question a doctor when they arrive at a diagnosis, because I have basically no medical knowledge or experience. But I do have a reasonable amount of knowledge and experience in Brood War. Hence why I'm basically asking pros to "show their work" on how they reached their conclusion.
In the same way, I can read a legal research paper to comment/criticize the author. Just because they are more experienced in the subject matter, does not mean their work or opinion is infallible. That's the distinction. People here seem to think that their opinion is god and cannot be challenged at all.
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On May 27 2026 02:58 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2026 02:53 jinjin5000 wrote:On May 27 2026 02:28 FlaShFTW wrote:On May 27 2026 02:26 WombaT wrote:
Not a BW expert like some of you folks! Know more than most but I know my limits haha
How’s Soma able to be such an outlier in not only being competitive but Championship tier where basically nobody else outside of the Kespa regime can even manage to be a solid Ro16/Ro8 lock? Just a special talent or is he doing certain things others aren’t? He has the micro and aggression of Effort/Jaedong, the intelligence of Soulkey, the optimization of FlaSh, and the craziness to gamble of Mini. It makes him an absolute demon to play against in BoX formats. On May 26 2026 19:18 Zergxhx wrote:
Geez, a group of fools really think they have more accurate judgments than a dozen professional players
Rather than just mindlessly regurgitate what pros are saying and having no real thoughts of your own, why not actually think about it independently? Otherwise, don't post, it contributes literally nothing to the discussion. depending on how you look at it, it's mindlessly regurgitating what pros say and lacking independent thought, or it may come across as hubris, claiming to know better than industry experts. IDK I heavily lean on favoring pro POV here. I don't agree with your term "obeying authority figures" as I see them more of industry experts than authority figure as it's their profession and they converse about these topic at highest level daily, whereas we are nowhere near their level of play/knowledge. Experts are experts for a reason, yes. But they also need to show their work for how they reached their conclusion, especially if people have a reasonable amount of understanding of the subject matter. I don't question a doctor when they arrive at a diagnosis, because I have basically no medical knowledge or experience. But I do have a reasonable amount of knowledge and experience in Brood War. Hence why I'm basically asking pros to "show their work" on how they reached their conclusion. In the same way, I can read a legal research paper to comment/criticize the author. Just because they are more experienced in the subject matter, does not mean their work or opinion is infallible. That's the distinction. People here seem to think that their opinion is god and cannot be challenged at all.
is it really that different from questioning a doctor and asking to show work at diagnosis though? And upon hearing Soma's reasoning, there was claims of bias and that he wasn't 100% sure on that.
Doctors aren't infallible either and can be wrong with their diagnosis, but pros here are dealing with their own gamestate and Soma went over his own reviews where he already had went over individual replays before the stream.
But I do have a reasonable amount of knowledge and experience in Brood War.
But isn't this the hubris to assume it's at that level to question pros level of understanding to estimate that it's reasonable enough? They do work on entirely different environment as we do at highest level.
There are significant amount of gap even between K/H-League and Major ProLeague tier of pros where K/H leaguers games can be flipped despite lead at various point in game, whereas Soma vs FlaSh were ending games at breakneck speed. And those k/h leaguers are leagues above anyone here and even they operate in different environment vs guys like Soma/FlaSh
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United States10420 Posts
On May 27 2026 03:03 jinjin5000 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2026 02:58 FlaShFTW wrote:On May 27 2026 02:53 jinjin5000 wrote:On May 27 2026 02:28 FlaShFTW wrote:On May 27 2026 02:26 WombaT wrote:
Not a BW expert like some of you folks! Know more than most but I know my limits haha
How’s Soma able to be such an outlier in not only being competitive but Championship tier where basically nobody else outside of the Kespa regime can even manage to be a solid Ro16/Ro8 lock? Just a special talent or is he doing certain things others aren’t? He has the micro and aggression of Effort/Jaedong, the intelligence of Soulkey, the optimization of FlaSh, and the craziness to gamble of Mini. It makes him an absolute demon to play against in BoX formats. On May 26 2026 19:18 Zergxhx wrote:
Geez, a group of fools really think they have more accurate judgments than a dozen professional players
Rather than just mindlessly regurgitate what pros are saying and having no real thoughts of your own, why not actually think about it independently? Otherwise, don't post, it contributes literally nothing to the discussion. depending on how you look at it, it's mindlessly regurgitating what pros say and lacking independent thought, or it may come across as hubris, claiming to know better than industry experts. IDK I heavily lean on favoring pro POV here. I don't agree with your term "obeying authority figures" as I see them more of industry experts than authority figure as it's their profession and they converse about these topic at highest level daily, whereas we are nowhere near their level of play/knowledge. Experts are experts for a reason, yes. But they also need to show their work for how they reached their conclusion, especially if people have a reasonable amount of understanding of the subject matter. I don't question a doctor when they arrive at a diagnosis, because I have basically no medical knowledge or experience. But I do have a reasonable amount of knowledge and experience in Brood War. Hence why I'm basically asking pros to "show their work" on how they reached their conclusion. In the same way, I can read a legal research paper to comment/criticize the author. Just because they are more experienced in the subject matter, does not mean their work or opinion is infallible. That's the distinction. People here seem to think that their opinion is god and cannot be challenged at all. is it really that different from questioning a doctor and asking to show work at diagnosis though? And upon hearing Soma's reasoning, there was claims of bias and that he wasn't 100% sure on that. Doctors aren't infallible either and can be wrong with their diagnosis, but pros here are dealing with their own gamestate and Soma went over his own reviews where he already had went over individual replays before the stream. Show nested quote + But I do have a reasonable amount of knowledge and experience in Brood War. But isn't this the hubris to assume it's at that level to question pros level of understanding to estimate that it's reasonable enough? They do work on entirely different environment as we do at highest level. There are significant amount of gap even between K/H-League and Major ProLeague tier of pros where K/H leaguers games can be flipped despite lead at various point in game, whereas Soma vs FlaSh were ending games at breakneck speed. And those k/h leaguers are leagues above anyone here.
I'm more than happy to be proven wrong, hence why I'm looking forward to the simulations where the pros resume the control and play it out with different decisions from the critical moment. It would be hubris to ignore evidence and stick to my belief after being proven wrong, but I'm open to being shown otherwise.
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On May 26 2026 16:21 QRCode wrote:
The bunker. Someone put up a picture of the bunker, and said here's the bunker protecting the mineral line...except it had some blind spots lol. You guys are misjudging the range of the bunker. Soma says he was able to disrupt mining for a reason. Because the bunker did not guard the edges of the mineral line.
Only read this part now. It was me. Can you mark the blind spots:
See the ling being shot by the bunker and dying right below the mineral patch. If that spot is covered, then the whole area inside the yellow line should be covered. And the lings would have to run through that area to access the spots outside bunker range. And even if there is such a blind spot, it must be one pixel next to bunker range, all you have to do is pull that one SCV out to lure the lings in.
But more importantly, by that time Flash would have another marine and he can just park it on top of the CC and if the lings want to go kill it, then welcome. The only annoying thing is one SCV would build the gas by then and the lings can pick it off, but that's also why you need to have that marine.
Edit: just tested in a multiplayer game, indeed one ling can attack the SCV at that top patch without being hit by the bunker. In that case the second solution has to be applied: one marine outside bunker to dance back and forth. Still miles better than fighting in the main.
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Just a quick note about game 7 - Soma sends a drone scout on 9 just to check if Flash is doing something cheesy. At 12 supply he has ~ 300 minerals, he doesn't see a barracks with his scout and returns his drone from his natural and instead goes 12 pool w refinery for quick speed - giving him a very nice balance of economy and aggression vs. Flash's CC rush. At that point Soma is in beast mode vs. Flash's "tee-hee hope he doesn't see this coming". Soma so confident he plopped down a hatch in his natural and probably was on his way to lair and mutas while Flash had no tech to speak of. Save for a bunker-all-in if he had held the aggression - game would have been lost for Flash.
14 CC on 2 player map after doing 14 CC 1/2 of the other games - gg Flash. Thx for the games, the series and the tournament. Was great fun! :D
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United States10420 Posts
One other thing, even Soma admits that this scenario has not been practiced by pros, and is very new. They're talking about how in 4pool you evac to the natural. So the pros are going off intuition to judge the game state, but not one based on actual experience with the situation itself. Hence why I'm more inclined to find disagreement with them in this situation.
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On May 27 2026 03:21 FlaShFTW wrote:
One other thing, even Soma admits that this scenario has not been practiced by pros, and is very new. They're talking about how in 4pool you evac to the natural. So the pros are going off intuition to judge the game state, but not one based on actual experience with the situation itself. Hence why I'm more inclined to find disagreement with them in this situation.
He also mentions that it's nearly impossible to make that decision on spot as transferring your workers to natural in that situation puts you behind vs every build but 4Pool, since you're behind even vs 5Pool when you do that. So even if transferring SCV to natural ASAP was correct, it would be difficult decision to make, especially at final. So at best, the decision would need to be delayed, probably after 2 lings came in and killed Marine at earliest
And this is ignoring all the pro players who were saying that defending in main was only viable way to stay in game too. (As well as opinion from effort/best about transferring to natural, all the terran streamers I've seen that called game to be over with ling runby)
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On May 27 2026 03:21 FlaShFTW wrote:
but not one based on actual experience with the situation itself.
So like you do based on your intuition? You require them to have a higher level of evidence but not for your own?
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On May 27 2026 03:25 jinjin5000 wrote:
He also mentions that it's nearly impossible to make that decision on spot as transferring your workers to natural in that situation puts you behind vs every build but 4Pool, since you're behind even vs 5Pool when you do that. So even if transferring SCV to natural ASAP was correct, it would be difficult decision to make, especially at final. So at best, the decision would need to be delayed, probably after 2 lings came in and killed Marine at earliest
And this is ignoring all the pro players who were saying that defending in main was only viable way to stay in game too. (As well as opinion from effort/best about transferring to natural, all the terran streamers I've seen that called game to be over with ling runby)
What is your perspective on Artosis calling for an evacuation to the natural immediately? He made that call immediately. He is a terran streamer although far from the levels of the koreans lol.
Flash had basically 2 options, try and keep the main alive or evacuate.
He chose to try and keep the main alive, it didn't work.
I think it is perfectly natural that a lot of people are speculating about how the game would've played out if he had went for the evacuation. That would've been my instinct to do after a drone pull like that. But I am absolutely terrible at the game.
On May 26 2026 21:06 Highways wrote:
Did they show how many drones Soma had mining when Flash gg'd?
Surely it was only 4-5 drones
He had a 2nd hatch up, or almost up. It was so over by then.
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On May 27 2026 03:37 Barneyk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2026 03:25 jinjin5000 wrote:
He also mentions that it's nearly impossible to make that decision on spot as transferring your workers to natural in that situation puts you behind vs every build but 4Pool, since you're behind even vs 5Pool when you do that. So even if transferring SCV to natural ASAP was correct, it would be difficult decision to make, especially at final. So at best, the decision would need to be delayed, probably after 2 lings came in and killed Marine at earliest
And this is ignoring all the pro players who were saying that defending in main was only viable way to stay in game too. (As well as opinion from effort/best about transferring to natural, all the terran streamers I've seen that called game to be over with ling runby) What is your perspective on Artosis calling for an evacuation to the natural immediately? He made that call immediately. He is a terran streamer although far from the levels of the koreans lol. Flash had basically 2 options, try and keep the main alive or evacuate. He chose to try and keep the main alive, it didn't work. I think it is perfectly natural that a lot of people are speculating about how the game would've played out if he had went for the evacuation. That would've been my instinct to do after a drone pull like that. But I am absolutely terrible at the game. Show nested quote +On May 26 2026 21:06 Highways wrote:
Did they show how many drones Soma had mining when Flash gg'd?
Surely it was only 4-5 drones He had a 2nd hatch up, or almost up. It was so over by then.
I think the theme for FlaSh this entire series was keeping in lead and finishing off the game with strong timing without letting it go to late game at all. Games he threw on sylphid and 8rax were games where he overextended way too hard trying to further secure a lead, despite Soma himself admitting he didn't feel confident going vs FlaSh's regular CC-First vs 3 hatch before pool without those extra steps factoring in.
This is just me speculating, but his SCV micro seemed very poor so his wrists may not have been 100%, idk. He also swapped his original gameplan of going for a mech switch into timing mech, so might have been more evidence of wrist issue.
effOrt and Action both mentioned that FlaSh did prepare a valk mech switch lategame build for one of the series, but FlaSh at dinner stream said that after 1st game, he adjusted all his builds on fly afterwards instead of going with his plan. EffOrt mentioned that FlaSh prepares multiple builds per each game and chooses one based on how he feels it's best rather than a single build.
(while Soma adjusted his builds a day before and stuck with it)
So I think it's a more natural conclusion that FlaSh would've taken a [known] option after botched ling run-by to choose the best move that would secure his lead, rather than take a potential disadvantage. Since this was both new situation for Soma and FlaSh, Soma made a point that even if transferring to natural ASAP was right move, the previous experience tells that this puts you behind even vs 5Pool and is only viable vs 4Pool.
The way games were flowing, both sides were GGing out when they determined lead was insurmountable, which some felt like it was bit too fast, but that's how much room they both needed to end the game and felt like they wouldn't be able to overcome.
So as result, FlaSh took what he knew as best option - try to hold both natural and main. As Action and FBH pointed out, taking main was only way to stay ahead in this situation.
You could see that on Attitude, just a lead was not enough for him to win with his goliath mech vs Soma's maneuvers and micro as Soma pulled his optimization to upmost to catch back up on mere lead as well as his moves that stabbed weakpoint.
There's also factor that a lot of Pros nowadays moved away from simple Rax FE bio, and Rax FE bio is considered outdated build that you can't really use vs top Zergs anymore as it's too hard win vs an optimized Zerg with it. So theres heavier emphasis on either taking lead with build advantage or going for tech builds than before.
Soma mentions that his prep vs Leta may have also limited FlaSh's build options because he specifically heavily prepared vs 111/112 for Leta. So only real option FlaSh may have felt was going for strong timing with mech or bio while sustaining a lead, instead of regular Rax FE like in old days, or getting even slightly behind.
So he got kinda holed into trying to secure lead at all cost along with his desire to end game ASAP
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On May 27 2026 03:37 Barneyk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2026 03:25 jinjin5000 wrote:
He also mentions that it's nearly impossible to make that decision on spot as transferring your workers to natural in that situation puts you behind vs every build but 4Pool, since you're behind even vs 5Pool when you do that. So even if transferring SCV to natural ASAP was correct, it would be difficult decision to make, especially at final. So at best, the decision would need to be delayed, probably after 2 lings came in and killed Marine at earliest
And this is ignoring all the pro players who were saying that defending in main was only viable way to stay in game too. (As well as opinion from effort/best about transferring to natural, all the terran streamers I've seen that called game to be over with ling runby) What is your perspective on Artosis calling for an evacuation to the natural immediately? He made that call immediately. He is a terran streamer although far from the levels of the koreans lol. Flash had basically 2 options, try and keep the main alive or evacuate. He chose to try and keep the main alive, it didn't work. I think it is perfectly natural that a lot of people are speculating about how the game would've played out if he had went for the evacuation. That would've been my instinct to do after a drone pull like that. But I am absolutely terrible at the game. Show nested quote +On May 26 2026 21:06 Highways wrote:
Did they show how many drones Soma had mining when Flash gg'd?
Surely it was only 4-5 drones He had a 2nd hatch up, or almost up. It was so over by then.
Artosis calling it can be easily dismissed by saying "it's Artosis" though, just like us noobs.
Effort calling it repeatedly is such a stronger case. Jinjin's videos are released now for everyone to see. Cool that he's impartial and doesn't leave out the ones calling for CC lifting.
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United States10420 Posts
On May 27 2026 03:28 doktordingerdonger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2026 03:21 FlaShFTW wrote:
but not one based on actual experience with the situation itself. So like you do based on your intuition? You require them to have a higher level of evidence but not for your own?
My evidence and support for my reasoning has literally been laid out throughout several posts already. What have you been looking at? Please stop with these low effort garbage posts. Thanks.
On May 27 2026 03:37 Barneyk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2026 03:25 jinjin5000 wrote:
He also mentions that it's nearly impossible to make that decision on spot as transferring your workers to natural in that situation puts you behind vs every build but 4Pool, since you're behind even vs 5Pool when you do that. So even if transferring SCV to natural ASAP was correct, it would be difficult decision to make, especially at final. So at best, the decision would need to be delayed, probably after 2 lings came in and killed Marine at earliest
And this is ignoring all the pro players who were saying that defending in main was only viable way to stay in game too. (As well as opinion from effort/best about transferring to natural, all the terran streamers I've seen that called game to be over with ling runby) What is your perspective on Artosis calling for an evacuation to the natural immediately? He made that call immediately. He is a terran streamer although far from the levels of the koreans lol. Flash had basically 2 options, try and keep the main alive or evacuate. He chose to try and keep the main alive, it didn't work. I think it is perfectly natural that a lot of people are speculating about how the game would've played out if he had went for the evacuation. That would've been my instinct to do after a drone pull like that. But I am absolutely terrible at the game. Show nested quote +On May 26 2026 21:06 Highways wrote:
Did they show how many drones Soma had mining when Flash gg'd?
Surely it was only 4-5 drones He had a 2nd hatch up, or almost up. It was so over by then.
Hatch started at 4:15. Hatch takes 75 seconds to build. FlaSh GGed at 4:50. Hatch wasn't even half way finished yet. Do you guys just not even rewatch or confirm these obvious things to yourself before you just say random things?
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I guess someone (Zerg player) can play it out in single mode from Soma's perspective to see how long he can follow up with enough Muta to end Flash. Just take his condition at 4:30 , before the second ling runby: 13 supplies, 6 drones but only 5 mining because 1 is in Flash's base, meaning 14 lings, second Hatch starts at 4:15. Just drone up like a mad man because Terran is jailed in their nat and see how that works out.
Playing it out from Flash's perspective is harder to simulate though, because it depends on how clean you reclaim the main while watching out for another all-in.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/amLJHYM.png)
