Episode one Part one- for those with no knowledge of BW. Things will get more involved/dynamic as these guides go on, don't worry yourselves.
Feedback is welcome on this first piece, I should have the next part up either later today, or tomorrow. The occasional slightly odd edit in there... But I'll get smoother as I get used to this. + Show Spoiler +
Hey all-
Some of you probably know me, plenty won't. I commentate on foreigner tourneys (I'm still pretty new in that), I run team[AoV] as a co-leader, and I sponsor stuff.
I have observed that we have a had a good number- not huge but decent, number of people on this forum who consider the switch to BW from SC2. I applaud this decision, and would like to do all I can to make this easier for them.
Do you, the community, think it would be worth a series of short VODs on a total noob's introduction to BW, how to approach it from the very beginning, how to start to practice, how to study a replay, how to consider a build-order etc?
I was thinking something along the lines of episodes such as-
1- an introduction to BW, and why to play (detailing things such as- what to expect from the learning curve, key differences from SC2 mechanically, outline of practice techniques, where to start playing, what learning resources are available to you)
2- Common mistakes made.
3- Practice techniques ins-and-outs.
4- How to study a replay (with a demonstration, obviously).
I could then begin with weekly replay studies from my own replay folder (or any which viewers wished to submit), which I could hopefully get onto the TeamLiquid calendar. I know what you're thinking- people have done it before, and better than some C+/B- protoss. I think it's important to keep fresh content coming in, with people whom new players can follow in the scene now! Not in the past.
It is key to note that I would be providing only relatively high level thoughts and insights, without being at an "OMFG progamer" level, but there is also the benefits that I can point out my own mistakes, and thus probably pretty common ones, as I go along, whilst theorycrafting "Did this work or not? Why? What could I have done differently? How do I replicate this success? How can I refine it further?". I also plan to have gosu players amongst my friends to provide a few extra notes+comments on as much as I can, which I can integrate into videos.
I think we have a gap in our current scene here which stifles growth, and I would appreciate all constructive thoughts on the subject. If I made these initial beginning videos, I would post them in a forum topic, with a link to my stream and schedule for replay studies.+ Show Spoiler +
I think this is a great idea. I personally think that progamer replays are too hard to duplicate, and lower-level players are easier to follow and emulate. Plus, they can explain their reasoning in English :p
I'd love to see that. The threads of new players who "want to get into BW" keep flooding the forums. Some guide would be great. I liked the idea of "The chronicles of Kaspra(?)", too. But something was wrong with the show. I'm not even sure what it was but I think it was the lack of a concept and the lack to focus on certain subjects.
If you want to create video tutorials keep in mind start out well prepared and follow closely a central theme in every one of your VODs and shows. Personally I'm not a Day[9]-worshipper but the success of his dailies and podcasts isnt a result of his personality only but of knowing exactly what he will talk about in an episode, concentrating on it and not letting himself get distracted by minor things that don't matter for your issue.
You should do the same. A liveshow will never work out exactly as planned but having a concept and sticking to it will help. For your VOD-tutorials: They should be nearly pefect in the end. Youtube-viewers tend to close videos or skip parts, when there is a small period of time with noting important happening. Maybe recording a tutorial in smaller parts can help to keep concentration and tension high.
Actually it's all just guesswork, because I haven't done something like this myself. But that's how I would do it.
The 1st guide you want to make, the introduction, should exist in a written version (stickied in the forums), too. Vers guide and Chills collection arent enough for absolute beginners, i'm afraid.
On June 24 2011 11:30 Don_Julio wrote: I'd love to see that. The threads of new players who "want to get into BW" keep flooding the forums. Some guide would be great. I liked the idea of "The chronicles of Kaspra(?)", too. But something was wrong with the show. I'm not even sure what it was but I think it was the lack of a concept and the lack to focus on certain subjects.
If you want to create video tutorials keep in mind start out well prepared and follow closely a central theme in every one of your VODs and shows. Personally I'm not a Day[9]-worshipper but the success of his dailies and podcasts isnt a result of his personality only but of knowing exactly what he will talk about in an episode, concentrating on it and not letting himself get distracted by minor things that don't matter for your issue.
You should do the same. A liveshow will never work out exactly as planned but having a concept and sticking to it will help. For your VOD-tutorials: They should be nearly pefect in the end. Youtube-viewers tend to close videos or skip parts, when there is a small period of time with noting important happening. Maybe recording a tutorial in smaller parts can help to keep concentration and tension high.
Actually it's all just guesswork, because I haven't done something like this myself. But that's how I would do it.
The 1st guide you want to make, the introduction, should exist in a written version (stickied in the forums), too. Vers guide and Chills collection arent enough for absolute beginners, i'm afraid.
yeahhhh so true
Kaspra's show just feels like watching replays with sayle for an hour than anything else
I don't think you need to get too deep into the replay analysis. There's plenty of things there that others have done that people can look up when they're ready.
if you're going to target the guide specifically at people switching from SC2, you want to focus on that theme. Draw regular analogies between the games to help communicate points, and make sure your guide is current and up to date on SC2 as well as on BW. It is not much good writing a guide for those coming from SC2 to BW if you don't have at least a workable familiarity with how SC2 plays.
When I began dabbling in BW, the way I learned more quickly was to draw analogies to what I already understood rather than attempting to learn from scratch.
For example, I learned that a build that followed 8pylon,10gate,12gas,14core,15 pylon for PvT in Brood War was roughly analogous in its purpose to the 9pylon/13gate/15 gas//16 pylon/17 core in SC2, in that it was a fairly generic build that could lead into a number of different tech paths and was a good starting point.
This is the kind of thing you want to be emphasizing in the guide.
Here's a quote from one of the recent threads with a good example of the kind of thing I think you should focus on
On June 21 2011 09:00 Ribbon wrote: I should make a big-ass list of major differences between the two games for the benefit of anyone who wants to switch. Here's some things off the top of my head.
1. ICCUP is a lot greedier than bnet. Playing PvZ will see the protoss open forge FE like 99% of the time.
2. SC2 is only now starting to standardize, but BW is down to a science. Expect to see the same openings a lot, which is both good and bad
3. It takes a lot fewer workers to saturate a base. This means you can have 4-5 bases running without making a rediculous amount of probes, whereas in SC2 4 mining bases at once is a bit silly (unless you're 110-drone Nestea). This doesn't affect expansion timings as much as you might think, because bases also last longer, but you want to expand as much as you can get away with.
4. BW uses damage resistance, SC2 uses damage bonuses. Thus, units have higher "base" damage than in SC2, but actually take longer to kill things.
5. Blue Flame hellion drops are now a protoss unit, called the reaver. Reavers shoot banelings that sometimes get performance anxiety and fail to explode. Vultures, the BW equivalent to Hellions, can instead lay mines.
6. High ground advantage is different. You don't need vision to shoot back at a high ground unit that's attacking you, but you have a miss chance
Oh, and it would also be a great idea to stream some pro level games and commentate them in English as part of the instructional videos. A lot of people learned a lot about SC2 from watching the far more numerous (than BW) English casts of the games being played.
On June 24 2011 14:40 Dhalphir wrote: Oh, and it would also be a great idea to stream some pro level games and commentate them in English as part of the instructional videos. A lot of people learned a lot about SC2 from watching the far more numerous (than BW) English casts of the games being played.
Ok, this sounds like a good idea. Get people some variety, some excitement. I do already cast foreigner games, but it's a different kettle of fish.
Don_Julio wrote:The 1st guide you want to make, the introduction, should exist in a written version (stickied in the forums), too. Vers guide and Chills collection arent enough for absolute beginners, i'm afraid.
Yeah, im wanting to make BW more accessible at an absolute beginning level. The videos will be kept relatively short, because i think a lot of noobs will be daunted by huge essays if they don't quite understand what's going on first. People will then also be able to take away a few clear points from each one, rather than assimilating masses of information.
On June 24 2011 14:36 Dhalphir wrote: if you're going to target the guide specifically at people switching from SC2, you want to focus on that theme. Draw regular analogies between the games to help communicate points, and make sure your guide is current and up to date on SC2 as well as on BW. It is not much good writing a guide for those coming from SC2 to BW if you don't have at least a workable familiarity with how SC2 plays.
When I began dabbling in BW, the way I learned more quickly was to draw analogies to what I already understood rather than attempting to learn from scratch.
For example, I learned that a build that followed 8pylon,10gate,12gas,14core,15 pylon for PvT in Brood War was roughly analogous in its purpose to the 9pylon/13gate/15 gas//16 pylon/17 core in SC2, in that it was a fairly generic build that could lead into a number of different tech paths and was a good starting point.
This is the kind of thing you want to be emphasizing in the guide.
On June 24 2011 14:36 Dhalphir wrote: I don't think you need to get too deep into the replay analysis. There's plenty of things there that others have done that people can look up when they're ready.
if you're going to target the guide specifically at people switching from SC2, you want to focus on that theme. Draw regular analogies between the games to help communicate points, and make sure your guide is current and up to date on SC2 as well as on BW. It is not much good writing a guide for those coming from SC2 to BW if you don't have at least a workable familiarity with how SC2 plays.
When I began dabbling in BW, the way I learned more quickly was to draw analogies to what I already understood rather than attempting to learn from scratch.
For example, I learned that a build that followed 8pylon,10gate,12gas,14core,15 pylon for PvT in Brood War was roughly analogous in its purpose to the 9pylon/13gate/15 gas//16 pylon/17 core in SC2, in that it was a fairly generic build that could lead into a number of different tech paths and was a good starting point.
This is the kind of thing you want to be emphasizing in the guide.
Here's a quote from one of the recent threads with a good example of the kind of thing I think you should focus on
On June 21 2011 09:00 Ribbon wrote: I should make a big-ass list of major differences between the two games for the benefit of anyone who wants to switch. Here's some things off the top of my head.
1. ICCUP is a lot greedier than bnet. Playing PvZ will see the protoss open forge FE like 99% of the time.
2. SC2 is only now starting to standardize, but BW is down to a science. Expect to see the same openings a lot, which is both good and bad
3. It takes a lot fewer workers to saturate a base. This means you can have 4-5 bases running without making a rediculous amount of probes, whereas in SC2 4 mining bases at once is a bit silly (unless you're 110-drone Nestea). This doesn't affect expansion timings as much as you might think, because bases also last longer, but you want to expand as much as you can get away with.
4. BW uses damage resistance, SC2 uses damage bonuses. Thus, units have higher "base" damage than in SC2, but actually take longer to kill things.
5. Blue Flame hellion drops are now a protoss unit, called the reaver. Reavers shoot banelings that sometimes get performance anxiety and fail to explode. Vultures, the BW equivalent to Hellions, can instead lay mines.
6. High ground advantage is different. You don't need vision to shoot back at a high ground unit that's attacking you, but you have a miss chance
Ribbon's #5 is the funniest thing I've read in a while.
Because it is mechanically much more demanding. It is more balanced and in my opinion sharpens your strategical thinking better than SC2. I still play BW more often than SC2, and the BW skills translate much better to SC2 than the other way around.
On June 25 2011 07:06 HornyHerring wrote: THIS IS NO WAY A TROLLING OR HATING POST!
Just wondering - pure curiousity, why do/would people switch from SC2 to BW?
Control group limit = more skill necessary to play the game. Also, SCBW isn't a game that breaks every game down into build order autowins and autolosses. I used to watch a lot of pro SC2, and that's all it was. Whoever did the build that was the counter, that guy always won.
The official SC2 ladder is set up to divide the playerbase into five roughly even groups. The ICCUP ladder is designed to be very difficult to climb. So 1/5th of SC2 players are in Bronze, but much more of the ICCUP playerbase is some variety of D. If you're not aware of that, it can be very discouraging for SC2 players to try BW and be stuck in the bottom rank for a very long time (SC2 players who use NTBL are more used to an ICCUP-style ladder where most people are Ds, but NTBL isn't really big yet. It will be soon, though!).
Because there's no auto-matchmaking, ICCUP can be intensely frustrating for new people, because you never really know what you're going to get, even without smurfing.
SC2 Zerg to BW Zerg is the easiest transition. SC2 Terran to BW Terran is the hardest.
Hosting a game on ICCUP is an epic adventure in and of itself, because you have to screw with your router.
When I got into BW, I played like 500 games copying strategies. Don't do that if you're a noob. Mechanics mechanics mechanics. You can get to Platinum in SC2 making Mass Queen if your mechanics are good enough (RootDestiny did it to prove a point). Mechanics are even more important in BW. Start with really simple build (1 base hydra!) and do it as well as you can. Once you think you're doing it as well as you can, add in another level of complexity (12 hatch into hydra break) etc. I know "copying the pro builds" is the most popular way of playing, and they are the "best" builds, but it's a wasted effort if you have shit mechanics. Once you're good, then you can try good builds. (This is also really as you should improve in SC2 as well, but I don't do it :/)
This is obviously SC2, but everything Destiny says about mechanics here is two or three times as true in BW, where mechanics are more important. I would actually make this series of videos (the are like 17, him going higher and higher) the very first thing to show to an SC2 player wanting to switch, because it makes a very important point about the importance of mechanics using terms SC2 players are very familiar with. And then just caption the video "But like 3 times as much"
Hi, im a sc2 player and I tried to go back to BW. I have some problem with BW. THe first is I can only find game hosted by korean and can't find partner or other people who speak in english. Maybe now everybody is on ICCUP? CAn you make a video about how to connect to ICCUP and meet the communautie?
In sc2 im like hight diamond and very close to master, but in BW im like D or D-. I think one of the reason is : it's to hard to control your units and I doN,t really know BO or how to move my tank with vulture ?! and How to beat lurcker ect ... I never saw this unit of my life. ( it's look basic but for me it's not) And even in sc2 I have macro problem so for me BW it's like so HARDD.
On June 25 2011 08:19 Gyro_SC2 wrote: (sorry english is not my first language)
Hi, im a sc2 player and I tried to go back to BW. I have some problem with BW. THe first is I can only find game hosted by korean and can't find partner or other people who speak in english. Maybe now everybody is on ICCUP? CAn you make a video about how to connect to ICCUP and meet the communautie?
In sc2 im like hight diamond and very close to master, but in BW im like D or D-. I think one of the reason is : it's to hard to control your units and I doN,t really know BO or how to move my tank with vulture ?! and How to beat lurcker ect ... I never saw this unit of my life. ( it's look basic but for me it's not) And even in sc2 I have macro problem so for me BW it's like so HARDD.
EPT
