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Guide for players switching from SC2 - Page 3

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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AfecksN
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom53 Posts
June 26 2011 18:36 GMT
#41
On June 26 2011 11:00 Nazza wrote:
I think you should make some 1-minute guides for the common rushes/openings (4 pool, 9 pool, 2 Fact, 2 Gate, BBS, etc..) and also some 1-minute guides on how to stop them. The SC2 ones are quite humorous.


I second this idea. Also a I'd love to see some BO specific guides, with an in-depth look at the mechanics in each. These episodes would probably be quite similar to the informative D/G threads in the strategy forum, with details on what the BO is, what is its purpose, how to react to scouting information, transitions into late-game, etc. This would be especially useful if you could get some high level players of the race in question to help with the discussion. I'd love if you could do this alternating weeks with the replay-analysis (or perhaps integrating replay analysis?)

BW Commentator~ http://www.youtube.com/user/AfecksN
Magus
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada450 Posts
June 26 2011 18:57 GMT
#42
On June 26 2011 11:49 One wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2011 11:00 Ribbon wrote:
Match-ups
(From a Zerg Perspective)

General: Ultras are substantially better than in SC2. Guardians are like Brood Lords, but crappier. Defilers are mandatory, as is consume.

ZvT: Lurkers are pretty good. A few lurkers can defend a base against drops, making Spires less mandatory than in SC2. Muta harassment is still good, but Science Vessels counter mutas so so hard, so you don't see them as much in the late game. Scourge are good for killing those vessels. Defilers are absolutely mandatory late game. You will not get bunker rushed every game, but expect some early pressure to force sunkens.

ZvP: Most Protoss open Forge FE, and get Corsairs. Corsairs are like phoenixes that can't lift, but they're still good at killing overlords. Corsair/Dark Templar is common, but more common last I really checked is corsair reaver. Reaver drops are the BW version of Blue-flame hellion drops, and can kill your drones pretty hard.

ZvZ: You thought SC2 ZvZ was twitchy and low-econ? BW ZvZ is muta/scourge vs muta/scourge with a rock/paper/scissors opening (unless you're Jaedong, and you're not). Games that progress to hive tech are pretty rare, and a little awesome. Remember SC2 PvP, before the 4gate nerf? ZvZ is basically that with mutas. It's considered the worst matchup


lol so much of this is wrong i wont even point it out, its nice that you tried and all but don't go around trying to explain BW strategy.

I might point stuff out...

GENERAL Zerg:
Pick your opening. You have the option of pool first, hatch first, (or if you're crazy(depending on the matchup)) gas first, which you will generally transition into either mutalisks or lurkers. The earlier you get your gas the quicker your tech, but the lower your zergling count. An FE gets you a nice econ advantage, but pool first openings expand fairly early too and are safer but you do end up with less drones.

ZvT:
Generally starts with 12 hatch into 3 hatch muta. 3 Hatch lurker is also an option but mutas are much more standard. 2 hatch builds are also available for those who want to be more aggressive, and then there are all the all-ins for the REALLY aggressive players.

The usual game will consist of an FE, make some lings when the spawning pool is done to make sure the Terran doesn't walk in an kill half your drones, start your lair and get ling speed, keep droning up unless you see death and destruction on the way, start your lair tech of choice (mutas or lurkers), use your tech of choice to delay the Terran's attacks and keep him in his base (or just survive his attack at your base) and put up your third and begin teching to Hive. Once hive is complete you MUST get defilers in a standard game to be able to survive the Terran's push, research consume immediately after the defiler mound finishes as that is the most important upgrade you have.

From there you just take bases and macro up, killing the Terran's expos with control groups of lings, drops, or full on attacks. Try to whittle away his army with plague and lurkers and dark swarm, or if he goes mech try to whittle away his tanks slowly but surely (queens are an option if he gets set up).

ZvP:
I don't know as much about this since the Neo Bisu and 4 base 6 Hatch Turtle/Muta stuff started popping up...
Some general points for ZvP,
You want a 3:1 ratio of zerglings to zealots or your zerglings will get slaughtered, especially once the P gets +1 weapons.
Zerglings are great vs dragoons just make you surround them so they can't micro away
Mass hydra is actually viable, as once they get in a large enough group Protoss cannot win without storms or reavers
Mutalisks are countered by corsairs, you need large amounts of scourge if you want to go mutas (using them just to snipe the P's tech units is viable)
Lurkers are almost always added into the army eventually, whether it is to contain the P or defend all of the Z's bases.
Protoss units have no way to heal so plague does amazing things for you, especially with cracklings (+3 attack +3 carapace Adrenal Glands upgraded zerglings, the highest DPS in the game) out.

ZvZ:
EVERY SINGLE DRONE COUNTS. EVERY SINGLE LARVA COUNTS. Droning up is hard in ZvZ because you are only going to have one or two hatcheries, three if you're lucky, which means if you make a drone you will have two less zerglings for the next 13 seconds (or however long it takes to get a new larva). This makes the tradeoff between drones and army MUCH more pronounced than in the other matchups. Alright now that we have that out of the way.

The main openings are 12pool gas, 9pool gas, 12hatch, and overgas. 12hatch beats 12pool because the lings are too late to punish it, 12pool and overpool/gas beat 9pool because the lings hatch in time to defend and you have more drones, 9pool beats 12hatch (usually) because 12hatch has such late lings. Expanding generally only happens when one can comfortably hold it (read: their opponent just expanded and can't attack), so it's rarer than in other matchups.

With your first 100 gas you can choose to start your lair immediately and cut into your ling count, or you can choose to get ling speed and be aggressive with a higher zergling count. The player that goes lair first is usually going to have to sacrifice map control until his mutalisks are out and play defense unless they can sneak some lings out.

Once the spire is out all of your gas goes into mutalisks and scourge. Whoever can have more mutalisks at the time of the first major engagement is probably going to win the game, so see if you can scourge effectively. Mutalisks (in numbers >=4 are perfectly capable of killing near limitless amounts of scourge from a single direction if microed well enough).

When you finally have enough gas for upgrades, note that +1 Air Carapace is the upgrade of choice, as it significantly reduces the damage you take from enemy mutalisks, compared to adding fractions of a damage point to the bounces of your own mutalisks.
Hacktus
Profile Joined May 2010
United States25 Posts
June 26 2011 21:32 GMT
#43
Having a solid BW guide for guys from SC2 would be AMAZING! I'm going to college next year and there is no guaruntee that SC2 will run smoothly on my laptop so I will probably switch to BW especially because BW intrigues me.
Like
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany94 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-27 00:56:09
June 27 2011 00:52 GMT
#44
YES YES YES!
please do it!
I'm a scII player myself who got into bw due to ScII and the phenomenon that esport is.
Right now im trying to get a hang of the metagame via VoD's of FlaSh etc ( which is my god btw), but the mechanics are the thing i stumple apon.
While its easy to stay below ~700 minerals with efficient army use in ScII, it's close to impossible in sc:bw to me :/
So please tell me how the pros use their units properly while not forgetting macro!
BlueArchon
Profile Joined June 2011
Philippines1 Post
June 27 2011 00:57 GMT
#45
Interesting. I am switching from Sc2 --> Sc1 due to the fact that sc1 requires more skill level making it much more exciting. I am currently D- as terran as I die from Zerg: expo --> sunken --> muta. Very deadly.


I think it may be because of my slowness while using my laptop with the ridiculous wierd screen that forces the game screen to be so small the units are hard to move around accurately.

So, i use a bigger monitor and connect it via VGA. So, far not much progress and because of that I can tell BW is hardcore! Which is why i'm switching over! :D
Like
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany94 Posts
June 27 2011 01:01 GMT
#46
On June 27 2011 09:57 BlueArchon wrote:
Interesting. I am switching from Sc2 --> Sc1 due to the fact that sc1 requires more skill level making it much more exciting. I am currently D- as terran as I die from Zerg: expo --> sunken --> muta. Very deadly.


I think it may be because of my slowness while using my laptop with the ridiculous wierd screen that forces the game screen to be so small the units are hard to move around accurately.

So, i use a bigger monitor and connect it via VGA. So, far not much progress and because of that I can tell BW is hardcore! Which is why i'm switching over! :D


i don't think you should say that sc:bw requires more skill.
This has been discussed over and over, but sc2 requires a different kind of skill, it's much more heavy on the psychological and theoretical part than on the crisp mechanical part.
Magus
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada450 Posts
June 27 2011 05:24 GMT
#47
On June 27 2011 10:01 Like wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2011 09:57 BlueArchon wrote:
Interesting. I am switching from Sc2 --> Sc1 due to the fact that sc1 requires more skill level making it much more exciting. I am currently D- as terran as I die from Zerg: expo --> sunken --> muta. Very deadly.


I think it may be because of my slowness while using my laptop with the ridiculous wierd screen that forces the game screen to be so small the units are hard to move around accurately.

So, i use a bigger monitor and connect it via VGA. So, far not much progress and because of that I can tell BW is hardcore! Which is why i'm switching over! :D


i don't think you should say that sc:bw requires more skill.
This has been discussed over and over, but sc2 requires a different kind of skill, it's much more heavy on the psychological and theoretical part than on the crisp mechanical part.

I'd say the theoretical and strategical skill are the same, but with more options in BW from the micro the mechanical and tactical skill are much higher in BW than in SC2.
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2259 Posts
June 27 2011 05:34 GMT
#48
somebody has to do it, it doesnt matter if that person is C+ or A+, the E/D guys needs guidelines...

if you are trying to make a show with bw content count with my support.
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
hellbound
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2242 Posts
June 27 2011 12:12 GMT
#49
On June 27 2011 10:01 Like wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2011 09:57 BlueArchon wrote:
Interesting. I am switching from Sc2 --> Sc1 due to the fact that sc1 requires more skill level making it much more exciting. I am currently D- as terran as I die from Zerg: expo --> sunken --> muta. Very deadly.


I think it may be because of my slowness while using my laptop with the ridiculous wierd screen that forces the game screen to be so small the units are hard to move around accurately.

So, i use a bigger monitor and connect it via VGA. So, far not much progress and because of that I can tell BW is hardcore! Which is why i'm switching over! :D


i don't think you should say that sc:bw requires more skill.
This has been discussed over and over, but sc2 requires a different kind of skill, it's much more heavy on the psychological and theoretical part than on the crisp mechanical part.


Yeah which is demonstrated by that vod on page one of a guy owning people with pure mass queen. So much psychology and theory. There is no aspect where BW is easier that SCII.
Shai
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada806 Posts
June 27 2011 13:53 GMT
#50
On June 27 2011 21:12 hellbound wrote:
Yeah which is demonstrated by that vod on page one of a guy owning people with pure mass queen. So much psychology and theory. There is no aspect where BW is easier that SCII.

Metagame. SC2 is in its infancy and the metagame is still up in the air. To properly study for a matchup you need to do a lot more replay/bo studying because people use like a thousand different strategies still in SC2.

In SC1 the meta is much more controlled, and THAT is why mechanics are huge. There are only one or two choices when it comes to unit composition in SC1 because of a stable meta, and as such the difference between players (apart from early game BO) is in their mechanics.

SC2 and SC1 are not on a scale, so lets move away from that form of thinking.
Eagerly awaiting Techies.
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1803 Posts
June 27 2011 14:07 GMT
#51
I don't know if its just me but I'm really having troubles switching from BW to SC2 lol. Always had the impression that SC2 to BW was harder. Oh well.
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
GrapeD
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada679 Posts
June 27 2011 16:44 GMT
#52
I'd watch it. I think you should do it.
Some people hurt people. I defenestrate those people.
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1685 Posts
June 27 2011 19:34 GMT
#53
My ban was retracted, hurray! I will start work on this tonight- I will try and keep episodes short and concise, without being distracted from the focal point each time. Once I've made a good headway into my making notes tonight, I'll see how much content we're looking at for the introductory episodes, before people are ready for replay analysis. At the moment I really don't know how much this is going to be ^^.

If people have any wishes for particular themes/areas of focus, comments here will be read and are greatly appreciated.
EleGant[AoV]
Nazza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1654 Posts
June 27 2011 22:45 GMT
#54
You might have to do a complete episode on base layouts/simcity. A lot of new players get their units stuck and have horrible base layouts.
No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-27 23:58:58
June 27 2011 23:51 GMT
#55
On June 27 2011 21:12 hellbound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2011 10:01 Like wrote:
On June 27 2011 09:57 BlueArchon wrote:
Interesting. I am switching from Sc2 --> Sc1 due to the fact that sc1 requires more skill level making it much more exciting. I am currently D- as terran as I die from Zerg: expo --> sunken --> muta. Very deadly.


I think it may be because of my slowness while using my laptop with the ridiculous wierd screen that forces the game screen to be so small the units are hard to move around accurately.

So, i use a bigger monitor and connect it via VGA. So, far not much progress and because of that I can tell BW is hardcore! Which is why i'm switching over! :D


i don't think you should say that sc:bw requires more skill.
This has been discussed over and over, but sc2 requires a different kind of skill, it's much more heavy on the psychological and theoretical part than on the crisp mechanical part.


Yeah which is demonstrated by that vod on page one of a guy owning people with pure mass queen. So much psychology and theory. There is no aspect where BW is easier that SCII.


What? No!

That is entirely the OPPOSITE of the point of that VOD. Destiny was a professional gamer playing against bronze-leaguers on a smurf account. His point was that strategy and metagame didn't matter at all at levels under platinum, because he could do an utterly stupid build and still win on pure mechanics. He explained this in no unclear terms. This is even more true in BW, which was the point I was making.

Over time SC2 is having builds disappear for one reason or another, and standards are developing (especially in TvZ), so execution is becoming more and more important. I'm pretty sure that eventually SC2 will become about who has the best multitasking, while BW will remain about who has the best mechanics, in the same way WC3 is about who has the best micro, even though all three games have elements of mechanics, micro, and multitasking in them.

On June 28 2011 04:34 ImbaTosS wrote:
My ban was retracted, hurray! I will start work on this tonight- I will try and keep episodes short and concise, without being distracted from the focal point each time. Once I've made a good headway into my making notes tonight, I'll see how much content we're looking at for the introductory episodes, before people are ready for replay analysis. At the moment I really don't know how much this is going to be ^^.

If people have any wishes for particular themes/areas of focus, comments here will be read and are greatly appreciated.


I think you should start simple. People who understand SC2 understand broad concepts like tech, timing attacks, and map control, but there are a lot of little details, and those little details can add up to a general sense of confusion. Because it's a newer game, the SC2 community is a bit more about figuring things out for themselves through trial and error, so I think a good set of videos would be something like

1. Playing against the very easy computer using a simple, basic build. Wow, making marines is a lot harder in this game.
2. Playing against a real opponent. Oh no, we lost . How can we fix this problem?
3. We've determined what we did wrong, and are now playing better.
4. A more advanced build. I'm pressuring with marines to force sunkens and units instead of drones. I'm getting two armories because I'm going to switch to mech and do a 1/1 timing
5. Analysis of a pro-level game, preferably one with a similar build, so that there's a progression from I LIKE TANKS to the refinement of the Flash double armory build that he was doing last time I followed him closely.

I think SC2 players like to figure out builds for themselves, and are a bit less warm towards "It's good because Flash does it", especially when they don't understand why Flash does it.

Take a look at this thread. This is an SC2 build that pros don't do (because it's too passive), but is MASSIVELY popular on the ladder because it's super-safe and forces a macro game. See how it's explained? Even though it's an SC2 build and thus in terms that SC2 players would understand, Spanishiwa not only lists everything he does, but why he does it, and how it plays into his overall game plan. This is the other reason the build is so popular, because it's a plan and not a list, so players can go back to it if weird things happen in the game.Something like that for a Brood War build will be EXTREMELY useful to an SC2 player looking to switch, and probably a few Ds as well.

SC2 mechanics are definitely simpler than BW mechanics, but day[9] was still able to spend two hours on it. That's the kind of think BW needs. The best, most detailed explanation of how to have good mechanics should probably not be an SC2 thing. It should be a BW thing. Take it as a challenge!
Magus
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada450 Posts
June 28 2011 00:28 GMT
#56
On June 28 2011 08:51 Ribbon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2011 21:12 hellbound wrote:
On June 27 2011 10:01 Like wrote:
On June 27 2011 09:57 BlueArchon wrote:
Interesting. I am switching from Sc2 --> Sc1 due to the fact that sc1 requires more skill level making it much more exciting. I am currently D- as terran as I die from Zerg: expo --> sunken --> muta. Very deadly.


I think it may be because of my slowness while using my laptop with the ridiculous wierd screen that forces the game screen to be so small the units are hard to move around accurately.

So, i use a bigger monitor and connect it via VGA. So, far not much progress and because of that I can tell BW is hardcore! Which is why i'm switching over! :D


i don't think you should say that sc:bw requires more skill.
This has been discussed over and over, but sc2 requires a different kind of skill, it's much more heavy on the psychological and theoretical part than on the crisp mechanical part.


Yeah which is demonstrated by that vod on page one of a guy owning people with pure mass queen. So much psychology and theory. There is no aspect where BW is easier that SCII.


What? No!

That is entirely the OPPOSITE of the point of that VOD. Destiny was a professional gamer playing against bronze-leaguers on a smurf account. His point was that strategy and metagame didn't matter at all at levels under platinum, because he could do an utterly stupid build and still win on pure mechanics. He explained this in no unclear terms. This is even more true in BW, which was the point I was making.

Ribbon... sarcasm.
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
June 28 2011 00:54 GMT
#57
On June 28 2011 09:28 Magus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2011 08:51 Ribbon wrote:
On June 27 2011 21:12 hellbound wrote:
On June 27 2011 10:01 Like wrote:
On June 27 2011 09:57 BlueArchon wrote:
Interesting. I am switching from Sc2 --> Sc1 due to the fact that sc1 requires more skill level making it much more exciting. I am currently D- as terran as I die from Zerg: expo --> sunken --> muta. Very deadly.


I think it may be because of my slowness while using my laptop with the ridiculous wierd screen that forces the game screen to be so small the units are hard to move around accurately.

So, i use a bigger monitor and connect it via VGA. So, far not much progress and because of that I can tell BW is hardcore! Which is why i'm switching over! :D


i don't think you should say that sc:bw requires more skill.
This has been discussed over and over, but sc2 requires a different kind of skill, it's much more heavy on the psychological and theoretical part than on the crisp mechanical part.


Yeah which is demonstrated by that vod on page one of a guy owning people with pure mass queen. So much psychology and theory. There is no aspect where BW is easier that SCII.


What? No!

That is entirely the OPPOSITE of the point of that VOD. Destiny was a professional gamer playing against bronze-leaguers on a smurf account. His point was that strategy and metagame didn't matter at all at levels under platinum, because he could do an utterly stupid build and still win on pure mechanics. He explained this in no unclear terms. This is even more true in BW, which was the point I was making.

Ribbon... sarcasm.


Oh :/

Sorry.
djbhINDI
Profile Joined June 2011
United States372 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-28 02:22:53
June 28 2011 02:10 GMT
#58
Seeing 2 basic Zerg guides and no Terran info (of course, until OP does his thing) I'm going to give VERY BASIC instructions that go into very little depth, but hopefully nobody flames me for giving false info. If anything you see is false, this is because I don't + Show Spoiler +
actually have SC2


ZERG:

+ Show Spoiler +
UNITS

+ Show Spoiler +
Overlords: The reason I'm listing this unit is because it now has vision, enabling
it to see wraiths/spider mines. There are no more overseers.

Lurkers: These are the annoying things that look like spiders, can burrow (at which point you will need to scan/have a Science Vessel) and shoot out spines that do linear splash. They are dangerous even in small numbers and can decimate MnM - it takes only two hits to kill a marine, and since your MnM will usually be in a ball, this means many will die with only two strikes.

Defilers: These look like scorpions. They have very powerful abilities, like Plague (which reduces units' health to 1, leaving them very vulnerable or draining Medic energy hugely) Dark Swarm (a huge orange cloud which shifts ranged attacks inside the cloud and prevents anything but melee/splash damage from happening to units inside the cloud, rendering marines useless - run the fuck away from this shit) and consume (passive, which allows them to eat Zerglings or whatever other friendly units to regain energy FAST). They come only in late game, allowing you to make a timing push after you have Vessels but before they have Defilers.

Queens: Not technically a new unit, but they might as well be. They fly around really fast, and have abilities like Ensnare(Green goo which limits your units' movement) Spawn Broodlings (kinda like Broodlords, OWNS mech units like Goliaths (which you should be familiar with from campaign)) and Infest Command Center (really rare - when your CC is in red health, allows them to take it over and make "Infested Terran" which are really different from SC2 - they are like ground-based scourge that do like 500 damage and run pretty fast but have low health and bad AI)

Devourers: Kinda like a new breed of Infestors. They look like big mouths and spit purple goo called Acid Spores that do damage AND weaken the unit they hit to the next attack. Luckily, they can only attack air units and are rarely used (Hive tech)

** NOTE: When I say MnM, I do not mean Marine-Marauder. I mean Marine-Medic - there are no more marauders in BW, and dropships are only dropships.**



OTHER ZERG NOTES:

+ Show Spoiler +
Ultras are worse in BW, but are still total bitches to kill.
Hydras are used more often in BW, and Lurkers are morphed from Hydras.
No more banelings!!!!!
Overlords cannot spawn creep, Nydus Networks can only come up when there is creep.
There are no more creep tumors or spawn larva.



PROTOSS:

+ Show Spoiler +

UNITS:

+ Show Spoiler +
Dragoons You will see this unit in EVERY game in which Protoss is involved. It is basically a slightly stronger, slightly tougher version of a Stalker. They are used to deny scouting, make pushes, and are a "staple" of PvAnything. Luckily, they will crumple to even unsieged tanks without Zealot support, and Spider mines (which we'll get to later) will annhilate them - one spider mine almost kills a dragoon. You can block them off during early pressure (like from 2gate) with a bunker and they'll probz retreat as soon as you get a tank out.

Reavers: These guys look like armored slugs, and seem to behave accordingly, until they shoot. They shoot little blue balls of energy called Scarabs, which can .1 shot marines (that's right, one of these shits can kill 10 marines, scvs, whatever small units you have). They have very low mobility, though, allowing you to kill them quickly or snipe the shuttles in which they are usually carried. Wraiths are a good counter in generally to Reaver play, which almost always involves Shuttles. Also, Reavers can't shoot up, and must make Scarabs before they can attack.

Corsairs: Kinda like Phoenixes, except they look worse and can't lift. You won't see them in TvP unless you go Wraiths (which is kinda gas heavy for TvP but I'm not supposed to be giving you strat tips).

Carriers: Reason I'm listing these is because they are actually a viable option in BW. Very hard to kill when massed, unless you do a counter with Science Vessels (EMP, Ghosts don't anymore) Ghosts (for Lockdown, which prevents them from moving or attacking) and Goliaths (which you should be fairly familiar with). But once again, I digress. They don't have an attack of their own, but must make Interceptors, these small flying units that do 6 damage but are powerful in mass. Not massed, Carriers kinda suck - 4 poorly micro-ed Goliaths at most are required to take down a single Carrier.

Dark Archons Very rarely will you see these units. They have no base attack, but they do have abilities like Feedback (where a targeted enemy spellcaster will have damage done to it equivalent to the energy it has), Mind Control (which allows them to control any enemy unit, even a drone/SCV and build up a Terran/Zerg army as well) and Maelstrom (like an area-effect version of lockdown which affects bio units). They can be annoying to your Science Vessels, and are a part of the Royal Stove Strategy. They look like Archons, but are Dark Red instead of Blue.

Arbiters: The bad boys of TvP, these things are fucking monsters. They look pretty damn weird, I can't really describe them too well. Their attack is only 10 damage, but they have super powerful abilities. The first is Stasis, in which they freeze an area of units, which can then neither give nor receive damage. Super effective vs. your Siege Tanks, as after the battle is done you will either have to risk additional losses to stay near your frozen tanks, or else they will just position Dragoons/Zealots around within your minimum attack range and make piecework of your frozen tanks once they "thaw". The second is Recall, in which an Arbiter takes a bunch of friendly units anywhere on the map in a 5x5 matrix and teleports them to its position. That's right - the unassuming army guarding the natural becomes a ravaging force right in your supply line if you aren't careful. Use EMP (which takes away energy and shields from Arbiters) and/or missile turrets to counter them, otherwise your life will be hell. Oh, and they also make close friendly units invisible, so you need to have SV's or scans anyway. Fuck Arbiters.


**NOTE: The following contains a lot of butthurt rage against the Protoss in general. I'm not going to lie, I don't think it takes as much skill to play Toss well (at low level, before you Bisu fans start shitting. I don't like him, either - Best is a good example of a non-asshole Toss player). I hate the Zerg, but I respect the Zerg. I do not respect the Protoss.**

OTHER NOTES ON PROTOSS:

+ Show Spoiler +
There are no Colossi in SCBW. This does not mean that you can win with marines. You will need factory units to face Protoss - Marines will NOT cut it other than early game (to soak up Dragoon fire) or like Deep Six (a 6 rax - that's building 6 barracks's) or some random all-in MnM. This will not cut it unless you are Flash or Boxer. This means that you will need gas earlier, so start a refinery at 11/12 rather than spamming marines.

The main reason for this is that Psi Storms will not kill tanks of goliaths as fast as Bio. Might seem petty, but if you've ever seen two control groups of MnM die in 5 seconds to 4 clicks, you will understand.

DT's are retarded as fuck. They do really high damage, and are invisible. I suggest walling against low level Protoss. This also helps against 2-gate-i-can't-macro-zealot spam.

Protoss have a thousand ways to be damn annoying. Remember that while Terran basically have Bunker Rush and BBS, maybe wraiths, and Zerg only really have early pool and random Hydra Busts as cheese, the Protoss have Storm drops, Fast DT's, Reaver Drops, Recalls, Stases, Zealot Rushes, Cannon Rushes, proxy gateways, and maybe even more ways to be annoying. If you let a good Protoss player catch you off guard, they will slice up your army in a number of ways - be on your guard at all times. Moreover, these ways do not take that much skill - pressing C ever minute or so each time per stargate doesn't seem too hard, but if you let a Carrier fleet build up, you will regret the day you were born. Spamming Z isn't hard either, and neither is building 2 pylons and a cannon behind a mineral line. You catch my drift.


That's all for now. I hope it helped.

EDIT: Formatting
You can't emphasize enough how much you need to be a paradigm shifter. - Savior
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-28 03:14:22
June 28 2011 02:56 GMT
#59
On June 25 2011 07:56 Ribbon wrote:
When I got into BW, I played like 500 games copying strategies. Don't do that if you're a noob. Mechanics mechanics mechanics. You can get to Platinum in SC2 making Mass Queen if your mechanics are good enough (RootDestiny did it to prove a point). Mechanics are even more important in BW. Start with really simple build (1 base hydra!) and do it as well as you can. Once you think you're doing it as well as you can, add in another level of complexity (12 hatch into hydra break) etc. I know "copying the pro builds" is the most popular way of playing, and they are the "best" builds, but it's a wasted effort if you have shit mechanics. Once you're good, then you can try good builds. (This is also really as you should improve in SC2 as well, but I don't do it :/)


o_O What?

Just play a race that you like, and stick with the standard build orders against each matchup. Maybe sprinkle in some fun builds like 1 hatch lurker, or crazy zerg but ling all in kwanro style after 3rd hatch, because losing your first 300 games can get tiresome .

Really you should stick to standard otherwise you will never fully enjoy broodwar. Nothing better than having dead arms and lying back in your chair exhausted after winning a 30min TvP. If you Flash build on cross posi on Fighting Spirit and have learned how to defend against cheese, you are bound to have a good game. My favorite parts of BW was knowing that I invested a lot of effort into having my factories very neatly lined up, so that when carriers came out I could non-stop pump goliaths like crazy, goliaths vs carrier is really fun and intense! Actually Sim City was one of the reasons I love BW, coming up with positions for gateways and pylons so I could macro most effectively. Anyway late game is where BW is really awesome and for every matchup, I love microing defilers, vessels, carriers, and that's where you wanna be if you wanna truly enjoy BW.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
tests
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States160 Posts
June 28 2011 03:15 GMT
#60
Good idea. I'll tune in as well as I also switched from SC2 to Broodwar about 6 months ago and have only barely dabbled in to the d+ range.
Time is money my friend.
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