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On May 20 2012 21:57 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2012 21:40 ZeKk wrote:On May 19 2012 13:46 hacklebeast wrote:On May 19 2012 05:31 Fakie wrote:
How does high ground work exactly? Do units on high ground not take damage? Or is damage reduced? To be more specific: there is a 46.875% miss chance when a low ground ranged unit attacks a high ground unit. If a miss does occur, it is as if the attack hit one "space" in front of that unit. For units with standard attacks (marines, dragoons, hydralisks, defensive structures, ghosts, goliaths, vultures, and all workers) a miss means the attack does nothing. For normal splash units (siege tanks and archons), then the miss does not affect the splash damage (other than the placement of the epicenter) and it is applied otherwise normally (it does not affect burrowed units). In addition, if there is a unit perfectly placed to be in the spot where the bullet graphic hits, they will take full damage instead. For special splash units (lurkers and firebats) the miss chance is irrelevant because it does not change the hit box of the attack whether the target is one space closer or not. Reavers are a special case because high ground can only block the trajectory of the scarab. A scarab used on long ramps with no cliffs to block the scarab will act no differently than a scarab on flat land. Dark swarm has the same rules, but "miss chance" is 100. Did you just test this thing out recently? Quite impressive otherwise u could take such large information from ur memory and print it out. I dont know where u get ur data from chance to hit accuracy. But last time I checked it it's actually only 30% miss chance. http://classic.battle.net/scc/GS/hc.shtml Your source is innacurate, funnily enough^^
Atleast I have a source to hold some validity to my statement in controverse to some other people here, whose state facts one should blindly belive in because they said so?
Ironically it seems wrong after I've done some testing now. Who would have thought blizzard would lie? So I dont doubt hacklebest numbers for some reason.
But yet again, hacklebest.Where did u get this information? Any source to back this up with? I dont find any information about this exact numbers.
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On May 21 2012 00:09 hacklebeast wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 00:02 Puyi wrote:On May 20 2012 21:40 ZeKk wrote:On May 19 2012 13:46 hacklebeast wrote:On May 19 2012 05:31 Fakie wrote:
How does high ground work exactly? Do units on high ground not take damage? Or is damage reduced? To be more specific: there is a 46.875% miss chance when a low ground ranged unit attacks a high ground unit. If a miss does occur, it is as if the attack hit one "space" in front of that unit. For units with standard attacks (marines, dragoons, hydralisks, defensive structures, ghosts, goliaths, vultures, and all workers) a miss means the attack does nothing. For normal splash units (siege tanks and archons), then the miss does not affect the splash damage (other than the placement of the epicenter) and it is applied otherwise normally (it does not affect burrowed units). In addition, if there is a unit perfectly placed to be in the spot where the bullet graphic hits, they will take full damage instead. For special splash units (lurkers and firebats) the miss chance is irrelevant because it does not change the hit box of the attack whether the target is one space closer or not. Reavers are a special case because high ground can only block the trajectory of the scarab. A scarab used on long ramps with no cliffs to block the scarab will act no differently than a scarab on flat land. Dark swarm has the same rules, but "miss chance" is 100. Did you just test this thing out recently? Quite impressive otherwise u could take such large information from ur memory and print it out. I dont know where u get ur data from chance to hit accuracy. But last time I checked it it's actually only 30% miss chance. http://classic.battle.net/scc/GS/hc.shtml wtf tree cover? is that a real thing? Yes, doodads such as trees or those spinning machines on space maps give units the same properties as if they were on high ground. And blizzard lied about their miss percentage, it is hard-coded in at 46.875. I don't know why, blizzard is just weird like that.
does the doodads play a big part in any of the ladder maps on iccup? it would be so kool to have a few trees around expos to give a better defender's advantage
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On May 21 2012 05:25 Puyi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 00:09 hacklebeast wrote:On May 21 2012 00:02 Puyi wrote:On May 20 2012 21:40 ZeKk wrote:On May 19 2012 13:46 hacklebeast wrote:On May 19 2012 05:31 Fakie wrote:
How does high ground work exactly? Do units on high ground not take damage? Or is damage reduced? To be more specific: there is a 46.875% miss chance when a low ground ranged unit attacks a high ground unit. If a miss does occur, it is as if the attack hit one "space" in front of that unit. For units with standard attacks (marines, dragoons, hydralisks, defensive structures, ghosts, goliaths, vultures, and all workers) a miss means the attack does nothing. For normal splash units (siege tanks and archons), then the miss does not affect the splash damage (other than the placement of the epicenter) and it is applied otherwise normally (it does not affect burrowed units). In addition, if there is a unit perfectly placed to be in the spot where the bullet graphic hits, they will take full damage instead. For special splash units (lurkers and firebats) the miss chance is irrelevant because it does not change the hit box of the attack whether the target is one space closer or not. Reavers are a special case because high ground can only block the trajectory of the scarab. A scarab used on long ramps with no cliffs to block the scarab will act no differently than a scarab on flat land. Dark swarm has the same rules, but "miss chance" is 100. Did you just test this thing out recently? Quite impressive otherwise u could take such large information from ur memory and print it out. I dont know where u get ur data from chance to hit accuracy. But last time I checked it it's actually only 30% miss chance. http://classic.battle.net/scc/GS/hc.shtml wtf tree cover? is that a real thing? Yes, doodads such as trees or those spinning machines on space maps give units the same properties as if they were on high ground. And blizzard lied about their miss percentage, it is hard-coded in at 46.875. I don't know why, blizzard is just weird like that. does the doodads play a big part in any of the ladder maps on iccup? it would be so kool to have a few trees around expos to give a better defender's advantage
There has been some attempts notably "Demon Forest"
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/169_Demon's Forest.jpg
It didnt go very well though...
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On May 21 2012 04:37 ZeKk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2012 21:57 corumjhaelen wrote:On May 20 2012 21:40 ZeKk wrote:On May 19 2012 13:46 hacklebeast wrote:On May 19 2012 05:31 Fakie wrote:
How does high ground work exactly? Do units on high ground not take damage? Or is damage reduced? To be more specific: there is a 46.875% miss chance when a low ground ranged unit attacks a high ground unit. If a miss does occur, it is as if the attack hit one "space" in front of that unit. For units with standard attacks (marines, dragoons, hydralisks, defensive structures, ghosts, goliaths, vultures, and all workers) a miss means the attack does nothing. For normal splash units (siege tanks and archons), then the miss does not affect the splash damage (other than the placement of the epicenter) and it is applied otherwise normally (it does not affect burrowed units). In addition, if there is a unit perfectly placed to be in the spot where the bullet graphic hits, they will take full damage instead. For special splash units (lurkers and firebats) the miss chance is irrelevant because it does not change the hit box of the attack whether the target is one space closer or not. Reavers are a special case because high ground can only block the trajectory of the scarab. A scarab used on long ramps with no cliffs to block the scarab will act no differently than a scarab on flat land. Dark swarm has the same rules, but "miss chance" is 100. Did you just test this thing out recently? Quite impressive otherwise u could take such large information from ur memory and print it out. I dont know where u get ur data from chance to hit accuracy. But last time I checked it it's actually only 30% miss chance. http://classic.battle.net/scc/GS/hc.shtml Your source is innacurate, funnily enough^^ Atleast I have a source to hold some validity to my statement in controverse to some other people here, whose state facts one should blindly belive in because they said so? Ironically it seems wrong after I've done some testing now. Who would have thought blizzard would lie? So I dont doubt hacklebest numbers for some reason. But yet again, hacklebest.Where did u get this information? Any source to back this up with? I dont find any information about this exact numbers.
http://code.google.com/p/bwapi/wiki/StarcraftGuide#Chance_to_Hit_Guide
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On May 21 2012 07:32 hacklebeast wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 04:37 ZeKk wrote:On May 20 2012 21:57 corumjhaelen wrote:On May 20 2012 21:40 ZeKk wrote:On May 19 2012 13:46 hacklebeast wrote:On May 19 2012 05:31 Fakie wrote:
How does high ground work exactly? Do units on high ground not take damage? Or is damage reduced? To be more specific: there is a 46.875% miss chance when a low ground ranged unit attacks a high ground unit. If a miss does occur, it is as if the attack hit one "space" in front of that unit. For units with standard attacks (marines, dragoons, hydralisks, defensive structures, ghosts, goliaths, vultures, and all workers) a miss means the attack does nothing. For normal splash units (siege tanks and archons), then the miss does not affect the splash damage (other than the placement of the epicenter) and it is applied otherwise normally (it does not affect burrowed units). In addition, if there is a unit perfectly placed to be in the spot where the bullet graphic hits, they will take full damage instead. For special splash units (lurkers and firebats) the miss chance is irrelevant because it does not change the hit box of the attack whether the target is one space closer or not. Reavers are a special case because high ground can only block the trajectory of the scarab. A scarab used on long ramps with no cliffs to block the scarab will act no differently than a scarab on flat land. Dark swarm has the same rules, but "miss chance" is 100. Did you just test this thing out recently? Quite impressive otherwise u could take such large information from ur memory and print it out. I dont know where u get ur data from chance to hit accuracy. But last time I checked it it's actually only 30% miss chance. http://classic.battle.net/scc/GS/hc.shtml Your source is innacurate, funnily enough^^ Atleast I have a source to hold some validity to my statement in controverse to some other people here, whose state facts one should blindly belive in because they said so? Ironically it seems wrong after I've done some testing now. Who would have thought blizzard would lie? So I dont doubt hacklebest numbers for some reason. But yet again, hacklebest.Where did u get this information? Any source to back this up with? I dont find any information about this exact numbers. http://code.google.com/p/bwapi/wiki/StarcraftGuide#Chance_to_Hit_Guide
This was a really interesting read.
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Thanks everyone for the answers! I have some additional questions, though. Here goes ...
1. If I have an air unit ( or even a scan) to see high ground, will my range units still miss sometimes when attacking units on high ground?
2. If I have a hatchery selected, and right click on a unit, will the units coming out of that hatchery follow that unit?
3. Let's say I were to scout my opponents base and he has a lifted rax (for whatever reason). After my return my scouting worker to my base, will I see the lifted rax in the fog of war (like how i see buildings) or will I not see it? ( like how I don't see "imprints" of units in fog of war )
Thanks in advance!
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1. yes your range units will still miss
2. yes they will follow that unit but generally you don't want to do that
3. you won't be able to see the lifted rax in fog
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thanks!
one more quick question. I'm wondering which maps people play on ICCUP. Fighting spirit and python are two most popular ones (that's actually the only maps people play ...)
since I can host games, I want to play on a lot of different maps.
Here's a list of the maps I'll play on ICCUP:
Fighting Spirit
Python
Destination
Jade
Sniper Ridge
Electric Circuit
Heartbreak Ridge
Ground Zero
Other than these maps, what are some other good maps that people play on?
I'm thinking of Longinus, Aztec, Gladiator, Medusa, outsider, polaris rhapsody, tau cross, triathlon.
are these good map that people still play on?
thanks!
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On May 25 2012 13:34 Fakie wrote:
thanks!
one more quick question. I'm wondering which maps people play on ICCUP. Fighting spirit and python are two most popular ones (that's actually the only maps people play ...)
since I can host games, I want to play on a lot of different maps.
Here's a list of the maps I'll play on ICCUP:
Fighting Spirit
Python
Destination
Jade
Sniper Ridge
Electric Circuit
Heartbreak Ridge
Ground Zero
Other than these maps, what are some other good maps that people play on?
I'm thinking of Longinus, Aztec, Gladiator, Medusa, outsider, polaris rhapsody, tau cross, triathlon.
are these good map that people still play on?
thanks!
Out of those maps, the ones that would get the most games are Longi, Aztec, Medusa, and Tau. Some others that I see relatively frequently are Blue Storm, Andromeda, Lost Temple, sometimes Icarus, and Circuit Breaker (especially this one). I suggest you wait until they are motw, but you will get a few games on the above I think ^^
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1. How to play against the crazy zerg if I went 1 rax FE?
2. TvP 3 base 8 factories timing push, should i rally my factories to his base? or somewhere in between?
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1. 5rax +1 or a slightly delayed push (5 tanks, 2 vessels, 4~5 control groups of mnm). 5rax +1 is really really good against crazy zerg
2. whatever you're comfortable with. if you notice right when units finish or you expect a counter you can leave the rally at your nat choke, but behind your main army is nice because you don't have to worry about them
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On May 25 2012 13:34 Fakie wrote:
thanks!
one more quick question. I'm wondering which maps people play on ICCUP. Fighting spirit and python are two most popular ones (that's actually the only maps people play ...)
since I can host games, I want to play on a lot of different maps.
Here's a list of the maps I'll play on ICCUP:
Fighting Spirit
Python
Destination
Jade
Sniper Ridge
Electric Circuit
Heartbreak Ridge
Ground Zero
Other than these maps, what are some other good maps that people play on?
I'm thinking of Longinus, Aztec, Gladiator, Medusa, outsider, polaris rhapsody, tau cross, triathlon.
are these good map that people still play on?
thanks!
As long as you can create games u are fine.
I'd love to join those maps.
Oh and try MOTW that should help a little bit
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Why is it more efficient to build your overlord on 9/9 instead of 8/9 so you arent supply blocked for as long?
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On May 26 2012 16:15 DJONES wrote:
Why is it more efficient to build your overlord on 9/9 instead of 8/9 so you arent supply blocked for as long?
I also wondered about drone production in those early stages,for example: If I`m doing 12 hatch,why don`t I do extractor trick on 9/9 after I start making my overloord instead of waiting like 20 seconds with just 9 drones?
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Cancelling extractor costs 13 minerals + the mining time of the drone you pulled off which is like 1-2 trips (another 8-16 minerals)
The mining time you get from the drone you built early mines 2x before the other 2 pop iirc so you gain 16 minerals. Though that might change depending on how many mineral patches your main has but it seems you will be taking a small loss if you do the extractor trick.
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On May 27 2012 02:21 Vuk_91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 16:15 DJONES wrote:
Why is it more efficient to build your overlord on 9/9 instead of 8/9 so you arent supply blocked for as long? I also wondered about drone production in those early stages,for example: If I`m doing 12 hatch,why don`t I do extractor trick on 9/9 after I start making my overloord instead of waiting like 20 seconds with just 9 drones?
To DJONES - Because of the Larva. You are not going to have enough larva to continue drone production. But you can continue worker production if you are terran and protoss.
To Vuk - You can do that. Actually, most of the zerg do that. 9/9 gas trick overlord 12 hatch. It doesn't change the bo, but you receive a faster drone and a faster larva, so do it.
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On May 27 2012 03:45 ArcTimes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 02:21 Vuk_91 wrote:On May 26 2012 16:15 DJONES wrote:
Why is it more efficient to build your overlord on 9/9 instead of 8/9 so you arent supply blocked for as long? I also wondered about drone production in those early stages,for example: If I`m doing 12 hatch,why don`t I do extractor trick on 9/9 after I start making my overloord instead of waiting like 20 seconds with just 9 drones? To DJONES - Because of the Larva. You are not going to have enough larva to continue drone production. But you can continue worker production if you are terran and protoss. To Vuk - You can do that. Actually, most of the zerg do that. 9/9 gas trick overlord 12 hatch. It doesn't change the bo, but you receive a faster drone and a faster larva, so do it.
Uh I disagree, from what I've seen most Zergs only extractor trick when doing early pool play and not when going 12 hatch.
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whats the correct way to open mech in tvz? right now im doing rax and gas at 11, 1-2 marines depending on if i can make a ling tight wall, cc as the first vult pops, machine shop after second vult, second fact and armory and ebay and academy after machine shop is done, 3rd vult and mine as soon as the machine shop is done, and turrets, gol range and pumping gol from 2 facts as soon as the amory is done.
but sometimes due to lag and bad micro. i lose a vulture or two before mine is done researching and die to a hydra push.my build seems to work well if i keep keep all 3 vultures alive and mine key points. so my question is how do pros open mech? do they go 2facts b4 cc? or get machine shop faster for faster mines? also is there any way to know the zerg is going mutas? gols seems to be the most reliable unit to use but at my lvl (d rank) they just do a hydra push and kill me.
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Could someone list here or pm me a list of Intresting Jaedong games, maybe some zero queen games thx
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On May 27 2012 02:21 Vuk_91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 16:15 DJONES wrote:
Why is it more efficient to build your overlord on 9/9 instead of 8/9 so you arent supply blocked for as long? I also wondered about drone production in those early stages,for example: If I`m doing 12 hatch,why don`t I do extractor trick on 9/9 after I start making my overloord instead of waiting like 20 seconds with just 9 drones?
Don't extractor trick if your playing 12 hatch or 12 pool and what not, only extractor trick with early pool builds.
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EPT
