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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 394

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Highgamer
Profile Joined October 2015
1445 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-18 16:56:34
July 18 2018 16:56 GMT
#7861
On July 18 2018 11:07 funnybananaman wrote:
How do you guys like playing TvZ for any terrans here lately, i usually go bio style and mech or wraith anyone have new insights into that MU? idk if i got any other fellow terran players on here

I like Flash's 1-1-1 recently, that means going for a factory-expand right into starport, few vultures with mines and (one) wraith into vessel-muta-defense. If everything works out nicely, you have a super early, 8.30 - 9.30 minute marine-medic-tank-vessel push that can kill Zerg or open up the lategame for you.

It's pretty hard though to learn all the counters to all the stuff Zerg can do to punish your lack of sheer unit-mass in the midgame. You have to learn to defend with minimal unit count, most notably without the usual 3-5 rax-bio-production.

If you're interested:

Thread about Flash's 1-1-1 (including an interview about it with God himself. Scroll down for the build-order-info; also check out lemmata's first post below the article for additional info on the build-order and on how to react to counters)

And here's an even earlier discussion about Flash's 1-1-1 when it was still evolving on his stream.
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10260 Posts
July 18 2018 18:42 GMT
#7862
On July 18 2018 11:07 funnybananaman wrote:
How do you guys like playing TvZ for any terrans here lately, i usually go bio style and mech or wraith anyone have new insights into that MU? idk if i got any other fellow terran players on here

Sorry, you're the only Terran player on all of TL.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania8514 Posts
July 19 2018 08:55 GMT
#7863
On July 19 2018 03:42 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2018 11:07 funnybananaman wrote:
How do you guys like playing TvZ for any terrans here lately, i usually go bio style and mech or wraith anyone have new insights into that MU? idk if i got any other fellow terran players on here

Sorry, you're the only Terran player on all of TL.

Hahahahaha ! I think that is correct , all others being protoss
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
Jan1997
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
Norway671 Posts
July 19 2018 12:19 GMT
#7864
How can I stop ling rushes as terran if he manages to get them into my base before my first barracks is done? I've tried scv block on ramp (destination 1) but it doesn't buy enough time T.T
Do something today that your future self will be thankful for.
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-19 14:48:33
July 19 2018 14:48 GMT
#7865
are you talking about 11rax vs 4pool? u should only have to hold for a few seconds

if u went cc first u just lose

on desti u can full wall vZ it's quite safe

+ Show Spoiler [11rax vs 4pool] +
Jan1997
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
Norway671 Posts
July 19 2018 16:16 GMT
#7866
I guess I need better sim city. Dude on the video had much better building position than I usually have, because I put my depots behind the mineral line and if I get bunker up in time they just rally their zerglings to kill my depots instead lol.

Do something today that your future self will be thankful for.
Dante08
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Singapore4139 Posts
July 20 2018 07:00 GMT
#7867
On July 19 2018 21:19 Jan1997 wrote:
How can I stop ling rushes as terran if he manages to get them into my base before my first barracks is done? I've tried scv block on ramp (destination 1) but it doesn't buy enough time T.T


If it's 4-5 pool you need a bunker at mineral line, your marine will not be done when the lings come. Once you know this is coming, immediately start a bunker in your mineral line, grab 6-7 scvs and block the ramp for as long as possible, when the lings eventually get into your main make your to fight them at your barracks to ensure your marine gets to the bunker safely. If you manage to get one marine in you're safe. Float your barracks back to the mineral line, make more marines and play normally and it should be a pretty straightforward win.

Walling in works but it is not a good practice for other maps where your marine will potentially spawn on the other side.
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
July 23 2018 17:18 GMT
#7868
I know hydra lurker/heavy overlord drop style is 'out of date' in zvt, but I've seen players open with it successfully even against players like Artosis, so, theres out of date and then theres out of date. Does anyone have familiarity with good opening builds that transition into hydra lurker well? I've been going back and forth between a 2.5 hatch lurker drop build [blackman] or a 3 hatch double den lurker drop build that I got off jinnam. Both of them I feel very much like i have to trick the terran in order to break out and do a decent amount of damage, but as I said, ive seen artosis lose to this style in straight up games, even when he knew it was coming in back to back games. Gotta be something more to it?
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
Cryoc
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany912 Posts
July 23 2018 17:47 GMT
#7869
Hydra/Lurker is probably just not as effective as Lurker/Ling/Defiler as core army composition. At some point you have to engage the Terran army head on and if you didn't deal damage with your drops earlier and don't have defilers, you are likely to lose the battle and the game.
http://www.twitch.tv/cryoc
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
July 23 2018 21:04 GMT
#7870
if you have a vod you might be able to rip a build from it
but let's try making one. this is a rough build so it probably needs some tweaks. an economic hydra lurker should be a lot more robust than a 3 hat allin

overarching idea: lair-heavy hydralurker midgame with drops

baseline build (opener): 3 hatch lurker (Wiki)3 Hatch Lurker (vs. Terran)
lurkers by 700, 3rd placed by 800, 0-1 is done 900 (so 1-2 is done 1200, just in time for hive)

at 700 we have ~33 drones, 2-4 lings, 6-7 lurkers, and +1 is on the way. we'll use the lurkers to take a 3rd (close 3rd because we won't be able to take map control without mutas).

midgame: midgame is gas-limited. 3 bases will give you 900 gas per minute. we'll need about 200-300 a minute for tech which leaves us with 600-700 gas/min. so we can support about 3 lurkers and 13 hydras per minute (700 gas). that also requires ~3 ovies. in total that's 19 larva and 1650/700 total cost on raw units; each hatch supports 4 larva a minute so that's 5 hatches. we'll also need around 400/200 for tech so about 2050/900 per minute

in order to support that cost we need 33 drones on minerals and 9 on gas (see link below). in total that's 42 drones. so we need to build 9 more drones plus the drones necessary for buildings. once we reach our goal number of 42 drones total we go into hydra/lurker pump until we can secure a 4th base or reach hive tech
(Wiki)Mining

Early game (mostly from the standard 3 hat lurk build):
9 - Overlord
12 - Hatchery at Natural Expansion
11-13 - Spawning Pool
13 - Hatchery
@100% Spawning Pool - 2-4 Zerglings
16 - Overlord
16 - Extractor
@100 Gas - Lair
22 - Overlord
@60% Lair - Hydralisk Den
@90% Lair - Expansion Extractor
@100% Lair - Lurker Aspect
@100% Lair - Evo Chamber
@100% Evolution Chamber - +1 Carapace Upgrade
@50% of Lurker research - 6 Hydralisks (may be able to make 7 or 8. make as many as gas allows)
@100% of Lurker Aspect - 6 Lurkers

Once lurkers are out, move to take the closest gas 3rd (slow push if necessary). Make only drones at this point, up to about 55~60 supply (whenever you reach the target 42 drone count). Add a 5th hat as money allows.

Rough followup (rough timings):
@150 Gas - Hydra Speed (~700)
@150 Gas - Ovie Speed
Hatch (4th hat)
Hatch (5th hat)
@100% of Hydra Speed - Hydra Range
@100% of Ovie Speed - Second evolution chamber (~830)
@100% of Ovie Speed - Ovie Drop
@100% of Carapace - Start 1-2 (~900). Begin producing only hydra/lurker at this point. Pressure and take a 4th/5th
@30% of Carapace - Place Queen's nest (~1000). Spire around now as well.
bovienchien
Profile Joined March 2014
Vietnam1152 Posts
July 25 2018 10:50 GMT
#7871
I can't understanding this quote. Explain it for me please!

When a hovering Terran building lands on Interceptors, they instantly die. If a Carrier attacks something, moves away before Interceptors get back in and a building lands on it, all its Interceptors will die.


(Wiki)Interceptor
https://www.facebook.com/StarcraftRemasteredVN/
Highgamer
Profile Joined October 2015
1445 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-25 13:30:50
July 25 2018 12:57 GMT
#7872
On July 25 2018 19:50 bovienchien wrote:
I can't understanding this quote. Explain it for me please!

Show nested quote +
When a hovering Terran building lands on Interceptors, they instantly die. If a Carrier attacks something, moves away before Interceptors get back in and a building lands on it, all its Interceptors will die.


https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Interceptor


Holy cow, another mind-breaker. I never imagined floating buildings could crush air-units (well, interceptors).

The quote describes two things that I just tested in the singleplayer:

1) When an interceptor is flying around and is right under a floating building in the moment that the building lands, the interceptor gets crushed/dies.

I made some GIFs (I'm not good at it though)
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


2) You know the basic technique of carrier-micro where you keep the carrier moving at all times so that the interceptors return to the carrier when he gets too far out of range of the target but they keep hovering under the carrier, don't return back inside the carrier? If such a carrier with hovering interceptor-cloud underneath it flies right over a landing building then all the interceptors will get crushed at once.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

bovienchien
Profile Joined March 2014
Vietnam1152 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-25 14:04:09
July 25 2018 13:56 GMT
#7873
^ thanks for your help. I can know what you said to me. It's so clearly.

To be honest, I can understand a little it. But I didn't believe what I understand. Unbelievable when I see your 2 pictures. Starcraft is so logical which looks like real life.

I am trying to translate everything about Starcraft by English that become Vietnamese language. Vietnam have more than 90 million people. I want to develop Starcraft so It's my life in the many years ^^!

https://www.facebook.com/StarcraftRemasteredVN/
Highgamer
Profile Joined October 2015
1445 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-25 15:02:41
July 25 2018 14:08 GMT
#7874
What a great effort, I wish you best of luck.

I just hope Vietnam doesn't turn into another Peru... all that laggy cheese... xD
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
July 27 2018 19:12 GMT
#7875
Why do protosses not open reaver against 1 rax fe more, either to push and smash the bunker or harass the main? surely if reaver is OK against siege or mine openings, it should brutalize an opening with a delayed tank?
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
Sero
Profile Joined October 2010
United States692 Posts
July 27 2018 21:43 GMT
#7876
I think by the time toss has a shuttle with it, terran should have enough to defend the reaver without taking much damage. The earlier CC means t will have more units and be able to build turrets earlier and with less impact on their build.
<3 FlaSh HiyA Stats HoeJJa
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2303 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-28 00:54:09
July 28 2018 00:53 GMT
#7877
On July 28 2018 04:12 Dazed. wrote:
Why do protosses not open reaver against 1 rax fe more, either to push and smash the bunker or harass the main? surely if reaver is OK against siege or mine openings, it should brutalize an opening with a delayed tank?


Stylistic choice...

is there a good counter, that is not proxi reaver to 12 nexus > cannon in protoss vs protoss?
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8785 Posts
July 28 2018 05:25 GMT
#7878
On July 28 2018 09:53 XenOsky- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2018 04:12 Dazed. wrote:
Why do protosses not open reaver against 1 rax fe more, either to push and smash the bunker or harass the main? surely if reaver is OK against siege or mine openings, it should brutalize an opening with a delayed tank?


Stylistic choice...

is there a good counter, that is not proxi reaver to 12 nexus > cannon in protoss vs protoss?

its not stylistic choice...
trying to bust a terran natural when hes sitting with a couple siege tanks is extremely risky, even if you do break the bunker. busting the natural before tanks is out of the question because you simply wont have a shuttle reaver ready in time.
your only option is to harrass with the reaver (which is seen fairly commonly), but realistically youre not gonna get 10 scv kills with your reaver anyway. reaver defense is so good nowadays.
ProMeTheus112
Profile Joined December 2009
France2027 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-28 16:35:01
July 28 2018 16:25 GMT
#7879
On July 25 2018 21:57 Highgamer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2018 19:50 bovienchien wrote:
I can't understanding this quote. Explain it for me please!

When a hovering Terran building lands on Interceptors, they instantly die. If a Carrier attacks something, moves away before Interceptors get back in and a building lands on it, all its Interceptors will die.


https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Interceptor


Holy cow, another mind-breaker. I never imagined floating buildings could crush air-units (well, interceptors).

The quote describes two things that I just tested in the singleplayer:

1) When an interceptor is flying around and is right under a floating building in the moment that the building lands, the interceptor gets crushed/dies.

I made some GIFs (I'm not good at it though)
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


2) You know the basic technique of carrier-micro where you keep the carrier moving at all times so that the interceptors return to the carrier when he gets too far out of range of the target but they keep hovering under the carrier, don't return back inside the carrier? If such a carrier with hovering interceptor-cloud underneath it flies right over a landing building then all the interceptors will get crushed at once.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


lol i thought this was fixed in an old patch, many years ago it was not uncommon that Ts would use this to crush interceptors and for example win against end game "100%" carriers with mineral exhaustion or something haha (on LT for example).. havent seen it for a long time i thought it was fixed along with sliding CC or something huhu.. (cause there was a bug where you could slide a CC to stick close to minerals^^)
IIRC if you just hit stop so your interceptors go back to your carriers you can easily dodge landings though since its quite slow and predictable
interestingly this is unique to interceptors? no other air units get crushed by landing, only sieged tanks? do lurkers die if they come and burrow beneath landing too? lul
so it must be intended mechanic o_o
SuGo
Profile Joined March 2013
United States681 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-29 05:17:46
July 29 2018 05:11 GMT
#7880
Guys, how can I reset or recover my defiler.ru info?

There's no password reset link or anything. I went ahead and simply created a new username "SuGo." (with a period at end), figured that'd be fine. But, when I go to create a new stream, it says my stream already exists (obviously from my old user name). So it won't let me add it or anything. It kept saying that twitch ID is already in the database. Maybe just move whatever Twitch entry exists with old username and just move it to this new one?

Any way to help fix this? Thanks.
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