• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:03
CET 01:03
KST 09:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down20ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier6Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League92
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 Power Rank: epic29 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder SCHNAIL now supports Remastered Rollback Netcode in Brood War BW General Discussion [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [Women's StarCraft] MonstarZ vs BA 2026-10-30 Star Con San Diego 2026 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread R I P Patrick Stewart Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8126 users

Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 480

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 478 479 480 481 482 488 Next
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1198 Posts
May 19 2024 07:42 GMT
#9581
B.net is unplayable for me now from China, and the Chinese server is shut down

the latency is good, but then I get disconnected randomly without finishing a game
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2358 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-24 11:00:10
May 24 2024 10:42 GMT
#9582
today tech and ivaniox explained to me that theres some proxy shit going on that i dont really understand...

what i got from what they explained to me is that in a lot of cases the connection goes like CHILE to USA to KR which causes bad tr, or even more stupid the connection goes like... Chile to USA to Peru (lolwtf)


On May 12 2024 11:29 TT1 wrote:
Well why can't the SA community come together and just Q 1v1 on SB? If everyone switches there won't be long Q times, also if other players (non SA) see that there's a steady amount of players on SB that might motivate others to try it out as well.
.


theres going to be a Latam cup soon, i read that the ladder stage is going to be on SB ... im really hoping for that initiative to work ^^ so that we can finally end this bnet crap thing and go back to the iccup/fish days with a functional server with ppl actually taking care...

+ Show Spoiler +
tbh i actually belive that a private server for foreigners could be a good thing in a narrative/content sense... i mean practically no smurfs, players grudges, rivalries, atm the best rivalry we have in the scene is artosis vs snow and that shit is not even close t.t


On May 19 2024 16:42 iopq wrote:
B.net is unplayable for me now from China, and the Chinese server is shut down

the latency is good, but then I get disconnected randomly without finishing a game


u playing on wifi¿ that used to happen to me when i was in college playing with wifi, cable connection was the solution to me...
ἡ τῆς Νεμέσεως τάξις
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10104 Posts
May 30 2024 21:47 GMT
#9583
On May 24 2024 19:42 XenOsky wrote:
today tech and ivaniox explained to me that theres some proxy shit going on that i dont really understand...

what i got from what they explained to me is that in a lot of cases the connection goes like CHILE to USA to KR which causes bad tr, or even more stupid the connection goes like... Chile to USA to Peru (lolwtf)


Show nested quote +
On May 12 2024 11:29 TT1 wrote:
Well why can't the SA community come together and just Q 1v1 on SB? If everyone switches there won't be long Q times, also if other players (non SA) see that there's a steady amount of players on SB that might motivate others to try it out as well.
.


theres going to be a Latam cup soon, i read that the ladder stage is going to be on SB ... im really hoping for that initiative to work ^^ so that we can finally end this bnet crap thing and go back to the iccup/fish days with a functional server with ppl actually taking care...

+ Show Spoiler +
tbh i actually belive that a private server for foreigners could be a good thing in a narrative/content sense... i mean practically no smurfs, players grudges, rivalries, atm the best rivalry we have in the scene is artosis vs snow and that shit is not even close t.t


Show nested quote +
On May 19 2024 16:42 iopq wrote:
B.net is unplayable for me now from China, and the Chinese server is shut down

the latency is good, but then I get disconnected randomly without finishing a game


u playing on wifi¿ that used to happen to me when i was in college playing with wifi, cable connection was the solution to me...


ya we getting the maps ready, tour should be up in a few days, we'll also update the 2v2 map pool if ppl wanna play that too
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
Hassihales
Profile Joined June 2024
1 Post
June 02 2024 19:54 GMT
#9584
--- Nuked ---
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1198 Posts
June 05 2024 08:37 GMT
#9585
On May 24 2024 19:42 XenOsky wrote:

u playing on wifi¿ that used to happen to me when i was in college playing with wifi, cable connection was the solution to me...


it was fine for several years, and it's fine when you connect using a VPN

it's clearly the problem with Chinese connection to Korea
HerrDak
Profile Joined July 2017
Mexico2 Posts
September 19 2024 05:35 GMT
#9586
Hello.

Im a Terran player and im back to the game after many years.

¿What would be the most basic build orders for TvP
TvZ and TvT?

I want to learn and practice one good build order for each of those matches.

Thank you.
tankgirl
Profile Blog Joined May 2016
Canada536 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-09-22 13:13:29
September 19 2024 07:30 GMT
#9587
On September 19 2024 14:35 HerrDak wrote:
Hello.

Im a Terran player and im back to the game after many years.

¿What would be the most basic build orders for TvP
TvZ and TvT?

I want to learn and practice one good build order for each of those matches.

Thank you.


The game has changed substantially, particularly in the last 2-3 years, for a few reasons:

  • Reverse ramps: Remastered enabled map makers to utilize "Reverse Ramps". In consequence the variety of possible map symmetries increased. Prior to Remastered, it was impossible to have ramps with high ground on the bottom (south) and low ground on the top (north) of the ramp. Reverse ramps are created by patching up single tiles but the problem is that not every tile on the supposedly high ground side of the ramp is actually high ground and it is difficult to know which tiles are not.

    Overall the newer maps are much more interesting and well-balanced. But keep in mind reverse ramps are worse for defending than a standard ramp, and often what is actually high-ground and what is low-ground is not what is visible in the map tiles.

    [image loading]


    This is important for army engagements when you're out roaming the map, and especially for choosing your opening build order. If your starting location is in a base with a reverse-ramp, you need to take this into account. So players will go fact > bunk > siege expand instead of the classic gas > 2-4 marines > CC > tank > defensive mines > 2nd fact. This is just one example. The.key is understanding the matchup and also factoring in the map and spawn locations.

    For this reason, the "master one build order for one matchupp" is not advisable and is probably an ineffective approach. You'll need to learn at least a few variations for each matchup that you can deploy in different situations.

  • Mineral boosting: someone discovered that mineral mining can be optimized, through a variety of methods. These methods all involve manipulating the path of the mining workers in some way. Mastery of these techniques has enabled players to dramatically improve opening build orders and mid-game timings. For example, a well-optimized TvT player can start constructing the first Factory at 2 minutes 22 seconds (2:22), compared with 2:40 or 2:45 for the pre-boosting builds.

    Here is a tutorial for Zerg.



    source



Aside from these broad-scale changes to the game, there have been several meta-game shifts (note that these are just generalizations):

  • in TvP the classic Arbiter/Carrier switches are still common, but in recent years the Protoss have begun to deploy mass shuttles to break fortified positions. Although this is not a new technique and has been quite common for many years, more recently it is the sheer quantity (frequently 6+) of shuttles deployed as part of the late-game army that has changed the matchup. Arbiter usage has declined in popularity, but is not uncommon.

    In the engagement shown in the video below, note two things: the mass-shuttle usage, and that the terran seiged his tanks on the north side of a "reverse ramp" and thus protoss had high-ground advantage.



  • TvZ the zergs have tightened up their muta-micro and also their build timings (thanks to the mining optimizations), and so it is extremely difficult to not fall behind. If your turrets are seconds late, you're dead. This was perhaps always the case, but in recent years skilled Zergs have become absolutely terrifying to deal with in early-mid game . In late game, defiler usage is king, and once defilers are out it feels (at least for me) like the Zergs are unstoppable. Mech switches are less common, and the FlaSh-style TvZ mass-tank has been nullified by mass-queens. There are a few high-level players (notably Mong and JyJ) who mech-switch, but it is no longer the de-facto mid-lategame composition. More often you see terrans with fully upgraded marine-medic armies accompanied by 8-12 vessels irradiating the gas-expensive zerg units constantly.

    Example game showing why mech armies have declined in popularity:





Probably there are dozens of other changes to the meta-game. These are the main ones I can think of. Some other players might disagree with me on certain points, and again, these are just generalizations.

Here is a link to the most recent build orders compilation.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1O0XEPA9ZxqkMsul7UjEt1wotvkBE1drB/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=113235138643928805516&rtpof=true&sd=true

(source)

glhf

https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/627255-progamer-settings
TL+ Member
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10597 Posts
September 20 2024 16:45 GMT
#9588
On September 19 2024 14:35 HerrDak wrote:
Hello.

Im a Terran player and im back to the game after many years.

¿What would be the most basic build orders for TvP
TvZ and TvT?

I want to learn and practice one good build order for each of those matches.

Thank you.

TvP: +1 5 Factory. General concept is getting vultures early for mines while you expand, then transition into a defensive setup while getting up early armory for +1, then additional factories for vultures. Forces protoss to make a lot of gateways and prevents them from just mass expanding. Can either attack with the timing or pivot into 3rd base and more factories.

TvZ: 2 rax academy. Zergs these days almost always go 2 hatch muta. 2 rax academy has a stim timing and then can transition into either more rax or faster tech.

TvT: 3 fact vultures is probably the standard these days, but 2 fact tank/goliath is also a fine opener. Pick either one and stick to it until you master it, then learn the other one.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
HerrDak
Profile Joined July 2017
Mexico2 Posts
September 22 2024 01:11 GMT
#9589
Thanks for the responses!
mtcn77
Profile Joined September 2013
Turkey729 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-09-26 05:57:56
September 25 2024 22:45 GMT
#9590
On December 05 2023 22:29 iopq wrote:
is this the ideal mining thoughts thread?

https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/89939-ideal-mining-thoughts

I don't know why 8 hatch would be better, is it because you get the most larvae?

edit: with 8 hatch you get larva blocked for 19 seconds, but the hatch is like 12 seconds earlier than 9 overlord hatch, not sure why that would be any good since 9 overlord hatch BARELY gets any larva block (like 2 seconds)

Hi, I've been thinking about the ideal mining thread again. I have thought of it as a zerg player to find the ideal workers to minerals ratio and have noticed some odd balance that is very elegant regarding how many workers you have per mineral patch, 1:1, 2:1, or 3:1.
It was difficult to associate the exact number since zerg doesn't have exact multiples of these numbers, so I just counted workers from how many overlords, 1, 2, or 3. You have +1 command coming from the hatchery, so 9, 17, or 25 workers - which plot exactly on ideal mining thread's findings, if you plot how much 9, 17 and 25 SCV's mine - that is 528/m, 800/m, 1064 minerals per minute.
It got difficult getting that part since the OP plots the harvesting logarithmically which screws up all arithmetic and only expresses linearly as to how much it costs to build said SCV's and supply depots - luckily that total sum is expressed fully. From that, I deduce it has to be a multiple of 8 since that is what workers harvest in Starcraft.
The big revelation here is that there is almost no difference in how long it takes to recoup the cost. 9 drones harvest their cost - plus 1 hatchery and drone to make it and an overlord - in 102 seconds. 17 drones 105 seconds, 25 drones 107 seconds. I think that means, at high saturation, the game balances mining rate quite well.
Turrican
YumYumGranola
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada346 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-09-26 10:28:20
September 26 2024 10:27 GMT
#9591
How do upgrades work in light of the % damage model?

For example, hydralisk does 10 explosive damage. If it's shooting at a marine it'll do 5 damage.

If it gets a +1 upgrade it would do 11 explosive damage, or 5.5 damage to a marine.

Does that get rounded up to 6? (i.e. +1 is effectively a 20% upgrade?) or does it stay at 5 (no effect), or is it like half the time it'll do 5 and half the time it'll do 6 (cumulative 10%)?

Or, is it that the base damage gets the damage multiplier, and then the upgrade is just a straight addition on top of that? (e.g. it's 5/6/7/8 damage for 0/+1/+2/+3 upgrades)?

Part of the reason why this is interesting is it might affect the relative usefulness of various different upgrade threshholds. (e.g. if the round-down version is correct technically a hydralisk would get no benefit until +2. Conversely, if the round-up version is correct then +2 provides no benefit.
WGT-Baal
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
France3577 Posts
September 26 2024 11:13 GMT
#9592
On September 22 2024 10:11 HerrDak wrote:
Thanks for the responses!


By the way, if you have some time and want to practice/improve/get some coaching, I would highly recommend you joining CPL 11. Sign ups are until this Saturday : https://tl.net/forum/bw-tournaments/630845-cpl-11-is-starting
Horang2 fan
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44402 Posts
September 26 2024 14:29 GMT
#9593
On September 26 2024 19:27 YumYumGranola wrote:
How do upgrades work in light of the % damage model?

For example, hydralisk does 10 explosive damage. If it's shooting at a marine it'll do 5 damage.

If it gets a +1 upgrade it would do 11 explosive damage, or 5.5 damage to a marine.

Does that get rounded up to 6? (i.e. +1 is effectively a 20% upgrade?) or does it stay at 5 (no effect), or is it like half the time it'll do 5 and half the time it'll do 6 (cumulative 10%)?

Or, is it that the base damage gets the damage multiplier, and then the upgrade is just a straight addition on top of that? (e.g. it's 5/6/7/8 damage for 0/+1/+2/+3 upgrades)?

Part of the reason why this is interesting is it might affect the relative usefulness of various different upgrade threshholds. (e.g. if the round-down version is correct technically a hydralisk would get no benefit until +2. Conversely, if the round-up version is correct then +2 provides no benefit.

5.5 damage.
It's (base + attack modifier - armor modifier)*damage type modifier.

I think tec247 worked out the full mechanics on the rounding a few years ago but I don't recall where. But rounded to .1s.

You can test this yourself though by attacking a tank with a ghost and watching the damage ticks.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Esp1noza
Profile Joined September 2003
Russian Federation481 Posts
December 27 2024 13:55 GMT
#9594
How to counter mass carriers as protoss in 2v2 or 3v3 on BGH?
BroodWar forever
Sonic_md
Profile Joined March 2020
Moldova280 Posts
December 27 2024 19:14 GMT
#9595
Hi. in which ASL season and in which match some zerg used the powerful Guardians + Hydras bundle.

I thought it was Shine vs Flash in the ASL 3 finals. But no. Can anyone remember who did it?
Subscribe to my YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Sonic_md...."SC:BW it is just game, but i love this game!" (c)Sonic_md.
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10413 Posts
December 27 2024 19:34 GMT
#9596
On December 28 2024 04:14 Sonic_md wrote:
Hi. in which ASL season and in which match some zerg used the powerful Guardians + Hydras bundle.

I thought it was Shine vs Flash in the ASL 3 finals. But no. Can anyone remember who did it?

Searched Google for "shine asl guardians" and I think this result is correct:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/6bgm5f/shine_vs_mong_asl_starting_now_get_in_here/
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
Sonic_md
Profile Joined March 2020
Moldova280 Posts
December 27 2024 19:59 GMT
#9597
yeah thanks it was shine sv mong,, i was a blind))
Subscribe to my YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Sonic_md...."SC:BW it is just game, but i love this game!" (c)Sonic_md.
Esp1noza
Profile Joined September 2003
Russian Federation481 Posts
December 30 2024 07:50 GMT
#9598
I play on europe. At which TTR is it possible to micro with stacked mutalisks?
BroodWar forever
mtcn77
Profile Joined September 2013
Turkey729 Posts
December 31 2024 21:39 GMT
#9599
On December 30 2024 16:50 Esp1noza wrote:
I play on europe. At which TTR is it possible to micro with stacked mutalisks?

I don't know what TTR is, but it isn't about skill, rather it is about finesse. You cannot do 180 degree turns, you need to do 11 o'clock turns(that is the term that was used in jaedong game aftermath the first time I read it). That keeps mutas moving instead of stopping and turning.
Turrican
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1198 Posts
January 29 2025 20:07 GMT
#9600


What should sacsri do to win here having more supply and defiler/lurker/zergling?
Prev 1 478 479 480 481 482 488 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
GSL CK 6
CranKy Ducklings41
Liquipedia
OSC
07:00
Masters Cup #151: Group D
davetesta34
Liquipedia
The PiG Daily
05:30
Best Games of SC
herO vs Rogue
GuMiho vs ShoWTimE
Clem vs herO
PiGStarcraft403
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft403
SpeCial 53
EmSc Tv 17
StarCraft: Brood War
ProTech166
910 49
LancerX 14
Dota 2
syndereN940
PGG 230
monkeys_forever148
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 726
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1316
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox274
Other Games
summit1g8113
FrodaN1595
XaKoH 240
Maynarde110
JuggernautJason35
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV563
Other Games
gamesdonequick497
BasetradeTV27
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 17
EmSc2Tv 17
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 126
• musti20045 30
• RyuSc2 16
• EnkiAlexander 14
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos4006
• Nemesis3554
• Scarra1110
Other Games
• imaqtpie486
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
9h 57m
WardiTV Invitational
11h 57m
Epic.LAN
12h 57m
IPSL
15h 57m
eOnzErG vs McRibbed
LancerX vs StRyKeR
AI Arena Tournament
16h 57m
OSC
1d 13h
Yamato Cup
1d 14h
IPSL
1d 16h
Artosis vs RiceHat
Kyrie vs Sony
Map Test Tournament
1d 22h
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
[ Show More ]
Ultimate Battle
2 days
Rush vs BeSt
Replay Cast
2 days
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-28
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
Proleague 2026-10-30
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.