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On August 09 2018 17:04 Highgamer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2018 03:06 Dazed. wrote:
Whats the gas timing for a 2.5 hatchery build, where the third hatch is placed on 18? Show nested quote +On August 09 2018 15:39 Jealous wrote:On August 09 2018 03:06 Dazed. wrote:
Whats the gas timing for a 2.5 hatchery build, where the third hatch is placed on 18? Can you elaborate or link me to what you mean by 2.5 Hatchery build? I'm not a slug or bug or anything like you, but I remembered this thread where the 2.5 hatch/18 hatch is mentioned: Flash King of WakandaScroll down below the interview, to the "Nitty Gritty"-Section of the OP. To quote the passage you're interested in: "In order to take advantage of the window [in the 1-1-1 build] at which Terran is vulnerable without the risk inherent in 2-hatch builds [i.e. the risk for Zerg to get out-defended and out-macroed], hero brought back the so-called 2.5-hatch or 18-hatch build, a late 3-hatch build in which the mutalisks pop at the same time as 2-hatch muta builds. In the past, Flash once explained why the 18-hatch mutalisk opening is a good response to the 1-1-1. Due to the fast mutalisk timing, the wraith cannot scout what the Zerg is doing because it must come home to defend the two turrets near the barracks. This means that now the Terran has to play blind as to what Zerg is making after the first few mutalisks. Lings? Mutalisks? Hydras? Terran cannot scan because the 1-1-1 build does not allow the Terran to have scans at that timing. The wraith normally covers that weakness in the 1-1-1 but the 18-hatch build totally destroys the wraith's scouting abilities by forcing it to come home to defend. A wraith cannot be in two places at the same time after all. The best that Terran can do is to sacrifice some vultures to see what the Zerg is making. 9 drone scout
12 hatchery at natural
11 pool
13 extractor
Lair @100 gas
Two zerglings
18 third hatchery
17 overlord, droneUnfortunately, this was still not a good enough solution for the Zerg since this build is weak against the +1 5 rax build, which is another one of Flash’s favorite builds."
Thank you! Cheers.
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Hey just saw today’s game of Soulkey vs Light where he goes Guardians. How do you know where to morph the Guardians? Is there a rule of thumb of when to morph them at T’s nat compared to behind your own Sunkens? I figure if I make them at home they can’t be used offensively for a few minites because they are so slow.
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Usually you morph them behind the natural on maps where terrain favors it, like on FS since there is a cliff there that terran can't attack or even see without air units. They're meant to be used offensively. If terran tries to counter all in as a response instead of dealing with them, then you can morph a few at your natural behind sunkens for defense.
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On August 10 2018 05:09 Sero wrote:
Usually you morph them behind the natural on maps where terrain favors it, like on FS since there is a cliff there that terran can't attack or even see without air units. They're meant to be used offensively. If terran tries to counter all in as a response instead of dealing with them, then you can morph a few at your natural behind sunkens for defense.
In your experience, would it be worth it to morph behind the nat and the 3rd (if they have one)? Or is it better to concentrate the damage output and go for the main directly after?
When I've tried this and I've split them up, I've sometimes not done sufficient damage before it peters out, but I also struggle to get into the main sometimes as well because it's more open space.
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I think zerg should morph them all behind the natural, make 2-4 scourge for the first 1-2 wraiths/vessels, and bring overlords with speed for detection in case they get cloak. By having them all together, you first deny their natural gas which makes it more difficult to defend with fewer starport units, then push quickly toward their main once the CC is forced to lift which gives you position over the bottom of their ramp and the potential to camping their production. Then you can flood lings to their third base, which they won't be able to reinforce at all.
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yeah i think u always want to be offensive with guards and keep them grouped. they're pretty weak in small numbers they just die to marines
guards have a pretty short window before vessel numbers build up too much for them to do anything
T will rarely have a 3rd during the guard window
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On August 10 2018 10:28 Sero wrote:
I think zerg should morph them all behind the natural, make 2-4 scourge for the first 1-2 wraiths/vessels, and bring overlords with speed for detection in case they get cloak. By having them all together, you first deny their natural gas which makes it more difficult to defend with fewer starport units, then push quickly toward their main once the CC is forced to lift which gives you position over the bottom of their ramp and the potential to camping their production. Then you can flood lings to their third base, which they won't be able to reinforce at all.
On August 10 2018 22:15 Dead9 wrote:
yeah i think u always want to be offensive with guards and keep them grouped. they're pretty weak in small numbers they just die to marines
guards have a pretty short window before vessel numbers build up too much for them to do anything
T will rarely have a 3rd during the guard window
Thank you.
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What is the point of 2gate Expand PvZ?
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On August 14 2018 06:05 Alpha-NP- wrote:
What is the point of 2gate Expand PvZ?
it is to apply pressure and force the zerg to invest his larva into zerglings and his drones into sunken instead of making only drones and hatcheries.
By playing 2 gate expand instead of forge you are not playing the early game as the passive player but as the aggressor.
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On August 14 2018 11:31 WGT-Baal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2018 06:05 Alpha-NP- wrote:
What is the point of 2gate Expand PvZ? it is to apply pressure and force the zerg to invest his larva into zerglings and his drones into sunken instead of making only drones and hatcheries. By playing 2 gate expand instead of forge you are not playing the early game as the passive player but as the aggressor.
exactly, and it also adds the benefit of potentially killing the zerg if he plays too greedy or miss controls his zergslings ^_^!
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How come all the old vods of 2 rax builds are 10-12 for the rax timing, but liquipedia, and modern players when they go for a 2 rax cc or 2 rax acad into cc always go 11-13? Is it 'better' to have the 10-12 timing if your real intention is aggression, but because it typically isnt 11-13 is better for expand builds? Or did pros just not realize 11-13 was a superior opening until like 2004/2005?
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Is 2 gate in PvZ still considered inferior build to FE builds? If you can force zerg to build a sunk or 2 and get lings instead of drones, does Zerg still just grow exponentially faster and that's why we need FE builds with gas heavy units to compensate?
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On August 16 2018 10:06 Moopower wrote:
Is 2 gate in PvZ still considered inferior build to FE builds? If you can force zerg to build a sunk or 2 and get lings instead of drones, does Zerg still just grow exponentially faster and that's why we need FE builds with gas heavy units to compensate? The problem with 2 gate is just that you dont have a corsair as quickly so theres some aggressive or macro options a zerg can use to abuse you. But with game sense/knowledge you should be capable of predicting and countering these builds and remaining ahead. People moved towards FE builds because they didnt like losing the strategical initiative-- it can be very unforgiving against a solid zerg. But that doesnt make it 'weak' or a gamble, you could open 2 gate every game and get to very very high levels of play.
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What is the most important unit in Starcraft?
I think it is worker (Drone, Probe and SCV). They can gain income and attack enemy. If we have no them, we have nothing.
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On August 16 2018 15:33 bovienchien wrote:
What is the most important unit in Starcraft?
I think it is worker (Drone, Probe and SCV). They can gain income and attack enemy. If we have no them, we have nothing.
you just blew my mind
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Don't forget that buildings are more important than any unit though. If you have no buildings, it's literally game over.
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Is ICC still alive/how do you install a separate version of bw on the same hd? Tired of remastered.
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United States2065 Posts
Wasnt following any sc or sc2 for a long time , last when i was watching bw , a lot of players were doing mech and zergs were struggling to figure it doing a lot of queen play is what i figured the meta would move to. Was it ultimately deemed mech sucks because queens? Did people stop meching in tvz?
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Hmm, good one. I know after the mech transition came the 1-1-1 build. But appearantly the 2.5 hat muta sort of beat the 1-1-1 if flash was not the terran. I remember larva playing some godly games where he just ultra-ling-defiler bullied the late game mech switch to submission.
But nowadays its like late game isnt even reached and everyone is being very aggressive. I hope someone who was closer following it, will shed some light.
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On August 17 2018 09:59 Dazed. wrote:
Is ICC still alive/how do you install a separate version of bw on the same hd? Tired of remastered.
Iccup is still alive, I'm still playing on it.
Because it's 1.16 you can download it from iccup website and just unzip it into a separate folder from your remastered version. Mca64's site is down but I can link you the mca launcher if you want it, it is very useful (you can of course still use iccup launcher too)
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EPT
