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1-1-2 gets 2 starports but is different from the classic 2 port wraith that leta uses.
normal 2 port wraith starts off on one base.
flash's 1-1-2 starts off like a 1-1-1 but cuts scvs to get 2 starports simultaneously. you produce wraiths non-stop with cloaking and no turret construction against 3 hat muta. after you get 5rax and get ebay/acad up, your mid game looks like a standard sk terran except you still have your wraiths left over and zerg is behind because youve taken no muta damage and ideally chased his mutas back to his base and killed a fair bit.
this variation is the only variation of 1-1-1 that really struggles with ling all-ins since its meant to be a build to snipe muta openings. hydra openings require you to produce less wraiths (4-5) and start tank production instead
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On September 06 2018 01:22 Dazed. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2018 04:03 Dead9 wrote:
i wouldn't call it preferred, especially for ladder play
it's much more fragile and difficult to execute Thats what I'm saying. Top level is one thing, an entirely different thing, than us randoms laddering. You don't want to be doing 1-1-1 against a cheesy random, its your only option, but you don't want to be. It can die to a thousand things and the cheeser will ofc, be cheesing you. On the other hand 1 gate tech plays out standard but should against an experienced Zerg player leave you slightly behind/at least strategically on the back foot. It is however, more cheese proof than cannon fe, or gate expand, its the safest option a Protoss could ask for short of 10/12. ~~~~~~ Anyone know the timings/goals of larvas 3 hatch lair+den build? Killer used it against horang2 but I don't know the timings or goals of the build. ~~~~~ the hell is the 1-1-2? 2 port wraith?
1-1-2 was firstly developed for maps like Third World, but is finding some play as another variation from 1-1-1. We've seen that recently in Last vs SK a lot.
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Bulgaria750 Posts
Can anyone familiar with the development of the recent TvP meta shed some light on that 1-fac-addon, goliath-heavy style? Who developed it and in response to what? What does the build sacrifice and what does it gain?
I see it discourages shuttle-heavy styles by micro-intensive protoss players (I recall seeing a post about a game of Flash vs Rain where Rain completely destroyed him using several, maybe three, shuttles) and gains a lot in the mind game department by sniping observers.
I see it being a bit vulnerable vs early DT exploits (no mines and using up scanner energy to reveal observers), so maybe a certain timing might be used after obs tech is out and templar tech is already required for arbiters.
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I remember a build that was experimentally popular waaay back in the day, 10 years ago, used a lot in the d ranks. I dont think anyone ever got it from a pro, it was just newbies experimenting, so im curious what people think: If zerg opens 3 hatch but instead goes double evo/hydra upgrades then lair, then lurker aspect, what happens? Pure hydra in low numbers actually fucks up mnm in similar numbers, counters wraiths, vultures, upgrades are quick which gives sustainability for hydra lurker once the lurkers are out. Whats the weaknesses of this kind of play?
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Norway28800 Posts
dies pretty hard against a patient terran who goes 4 rax 2 fac and doesn't try to move out too early. If terran has 6+ tanks with his m&m and doesn't engage horribly then hydra lurker just melts.
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Where do you find the cost for lurker aspect in campaign editor? I cant for the life of me find it under upgrade settings or anywhere else
/where is unit supply? not under unit properties like i expected...
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probs under research
u cant edit unit supply
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I'm relatively new to the post-KeSPA era of BW and just started watching KSL/ASL with a few friends recently. Years ago when I was last actively watching, 12nex was somewhat common PvT and the traditional wisdom regarding it that I heard a lot was that even if T took down the nexus with a bunker rush, due to the lost mining time as long as Protoss didn't lose any probes they would come out relatively even.
However nowadays I notice on streams and in VODs nobody opens 12nex anymore. What developments caused this to fall out of favor? Or is 12nex still around and I just haven't seen it?
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12 Nexus is still played but Protoss is only not behind when Terran brings more than 5-6 SCVs to kill the Nexus or T loses a lot of units during the rush. And 5-6 SCVs with your army is usually enough to kill the Nexus.
So it is still a risky opening unless the Terran sees the 12 Nexus too late.
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On September 11 2018 23:26 TaardadAiel wrote:
Can anyone familiar with the development of the recent TvP meta shed some light on that 1-fac-addon, goliath-heavy style? Who developed it and in response to what? What does the build sacrifice and what does it gain?
I see it discourages shuttle-heavy styles by micro-intensive protoss players (I recall seeing a post about a game of Flash vs Rain where Rain completely destroyed him using several, maybe three, shuttles) and gains a lot in the mind game department by sniping observers.
I see it being a bit vulnerable vs early DT exploits (no mines and using up scanner energy to reveal observers), so maybe a certain timing might be used after obs tech is out and templar tech is already required for arbiters.
You actually answered it, Protoss almost always go multiple speed shuttles with reaver nowadays to pin Terran in their base and prevent them from getting a third. It is really effective and really hard to defend without taking any damage as Terran. So Flash started getting goliaths with range out earlier to deal with it.
Yes this style is a little vulnerable to DTs but Protoss seldom goes for DTs nowadays. Terran can stop DTs pretty easily if scouted while speed shuttle reavers are still effective even when scouted.
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I asked this question a couple times before but noone knew the answer.
How do you cast Disruption web quickly around Reavers so that Ultralisks can not attack them? I saw Mazur win an awesome lategame PvZ with Sair-Reaver-Disruption Web against Ultralisks years ago.
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have fast fingers/hotkey individual corsairs/clone them
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On September 19 2018 13:12 Alpha-NP- wrote:
I asked this question a couple times before but noone knew the answer.
How do you cast Disruption web quickly around Reavers so that Ultralisks can not attack them? I saw Mazur win an awesome lategame PvZ with Sair-Reaver-Disruption Web against Ultralisks years ago.
Git gud
User was warned for this post
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Bulgaria750 Posts
On September 18 2018 14:23 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2018 23:26 TaardadAiel wrote:
Can anyone familiar with the development of the recent TvP meta shed some light on that 1-fac-addon, goliath-heavy style? Who developed it and in response to what? What does the build sacrifice and what does it gain?
I see it discourages shuttle-heavy styles by micro-intensive protoss players (I recall seeing a post about a game of Flash vs Rain where Rain completely destroyed him using several, maybe three, shuttles) and gains a lot in the mind game department by sniping observers.
I see it being a bit vulnerable vs early DT exploits (no mines and using up scanner energy to reveal observers), so maybe a certain timing might be used after obs tech is out and templar tech is already required for arbiters. You actually answered it, Protoss almost always go multiple speed shuttles with reaver nowadays to pin Terran in their base and prevent them from getting a third. It is really effective and really hard to defend without taking any damage as Terran. So Flash started getting goliaths with range out earlier to deal with it. Yes this style is a little vulnerable to DTs but Protoss seldom goes for DTs nowadays. Terran can stop DTs pretty easily if scouted while speed shuttle reavers are still effective even when scouted.
Thanks for the confirmation nonetheless  I didn't know Flash developed the build though.
Then again, he is the likely candidate anyway.
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If you a-move scourges against carriers with interceptors out, do the scourges auto target the carriers or interceptors?
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On September 20 2018 19:09 KameZerg wrote:
If you a-move scourges against carriers with interceptors out, do the scourges auto target the carriers or interceptors?
Interceptors.
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On September 20 2018 19:09 KameZerg wrote:
If you a-move scourges against carriers with interceptors out, do the scourges auto target the carriers or interceptors?
I think they target whatever is closest, which is going to be interceptors in most cases. I can't test it right now though.
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Does anyone know if the attack values given by the game are approximates of the real value, and is there literature on how it works?
According to this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-strategy/532436-goliath-carrier-interceptor-break-points#2
the equation to calculate damage is:
[( Atk + Upg) - (Armor + Upg)] * Number of Attacks * Damage Type Modifier
Where "Number of Attacks" is there to account for units that attack twice in the same animation, like Zealots or Goliaths.
So I went and tested a 0/0 Goliath against a 0/0 Muta and the first attack deals 9 damage. According to the equation it should be 10 since the Goliath deals 10 explosive twice, and the Muta has no base armor, but is a small unit so 50%.
When I get +1 it deals 11, instead of 12. If I get +1 Carapace it deals 10 instead of 11 as well.
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Norway28800 Posts
scourge definitely go on the interceptors.
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Norway28800 Posts
randomprecision, the reason why the first attack deals 9 damage is actually that mutalisks (like all zerg units) instantly regenerate one hit point when hit.
Like if you have two vultures killing drones, you have to be very on point to two shot them, both vults need to be equally far from the drones shooting at the same time. Just a small fraction of a second difference means they survive with 1 hp.
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EPT
