On September 20 2018 20:14 Liquid`Drone wrote: randomprecision, the reason why the first attack deals 9 damage is actually that mutalisks (like all zerg units) instantly regenerate one hit point when hit.
Like if you have two vultures killing drones, you have to be very on point to two shot them, both vults need to be equally far from the drones shooting at the same time. Just a small fraction of a second difference means they survive with 1 hp.
Thanks. I went and tested some more and this checks out. I thought the regen was at a steady pace.
On September 21 2018 15:58 [Fin]Vittu wrote: for SK Terran users out there:
how to move a big cloud of vessel around without having them clump up? I have troubles selecting those with energy to irradiate
They'll clump eventually, since when you group a new one with your old ones, and then give them an order, the new one will be too far away and act like an overlord in a stack of mutas.
To select only the ones you want tell them to irradiate something that's out of range, then select only those that move.
On September 21 2018 15:58 [Fin]Vittu wrote: for SK Terran users out there:
how to move a big cloud of vessel around without having them clump up? I have troubles selecting those with energy to irradiate
Here's how Hiya does it, which i found very useful:
Keep vessels on hotkey 5, then click a vessel in the control group, checking to see if it has enough energy: if so, push I (irradiate) and cast the spell, then rapidly push hotkey 5 again, etc. You can "clone" irradiate spells this way, and once you get enough practice, it becomes very fast:
On September 21 2018 15:58 [Fin]Vittu wrote: for SK Terran users out there:
how to move a big cloud of vessel around without having them clump up? I have troubles selecting those with energy to irradiate
What randomprecision wrote about adding a far-away vessel to the group is correct; if you do that, the far-away vessel will make the others clump up.
But if you already have a group of vessels on the field, you can just leave the freshly produced ones at home for a while and actually do something about keeping your vessels spread out: Magic Box
Quote: "In StarCraft, a group of units will maintain formation depending on how far apart they are from each other. Said simply, if you keep your units close enough, they will stay in formation, move in formation, and cast spells in formation."
Also check out this guide by skyglow1 about Magic Boxes. If you scroll down a bit, there is a short section with a picture about exactly your problem.
(and if you don't know about the other uses of Magic Box, e.g. mass-casting spread-out EMPs or laying mine-fields efficiently with vultures, definitelly check them out)
So you just have to once put your vessels in the right formation - spread far enough to not overlap, but not too far to not fit inside the limits of the magic box - and then, if you pay attention while moving them, always have them moving in formation, as long as you give them move-commands outside of their magic box.
Another quick way (edit: that tankgirl explained above just now), if you don't have too many vessels or can't concentrate on their move-commands all the time, is to quickly cycle through the pictures at the bottom of the screen until you find one with enough energy to irradiate (by pressing the ctrl-group button repeatedly and each time clicking on one of the unit-icons). Alternatively, if you have a little time, you can give them a move command and then one-by-one stop them while the cloud is moving, so that they spread out quickly. This can be done also with the method I just explained. Or you can give multiple move commands and shift-deselect the vessels one by one in between.
I have a question about hot keys. Do people always hot key the same type of units to the same digit every game or do people usually improvise? When is it okay to group multiple types of units into 1 hotkey(ex. vessels,marines,tanks on hotkey number1)?
On September 22 2018 00:07 Cheesefome wrote: I have a question about hot keys. Do people always hot key the same type of units to the same digit every game or do people usually improvise?
The big advantage of always using the same digit for certain units/buildings as much as you can is that, through repetition, you get veeeeery accustomed to that setup so that without much thinking/paying attention you can proceed as usual or react/act instantly. This can mean do or die in many situations, e.g. if you have your scouting-SCV under ling-pressure and want to save it asap or if you have to instantly stim 2-3 groups of marines against mutas/lurkers charging you. And maybe more importantly, it frees your mind overall off arranging and remembering all that mechanical stuff, thus opening up space for tactical/strategical thinking.
A relative down-side is that this can produce mistakes if you have to assign a hotkey in an unusual way for once, and it can even block you from flexible hotkey-usage if your system is too rigid. (Sometimes I get caught arranging my ctrl-groups like I'm used to when I should just grab everything and move out. With practice, it takes very little time though to keep everything in order)
So usually, yes, you always put your unit-types (those that you build every time in a certain matchup) on the same hotkeys, especially those that you know require a lot of repetitive a-moving or fast reaction and baby-sitting.
On September 22 2018 00:07 Cheesefome wrote: When is it okay to group multiple types of units into 1 hotkey(ex. vessels,marines,tanks on hotkey number1)?
You can always do whatever you like in BW, but it "is okay":
- if you don't have enough control-groups to create all the homogeneous groups that you would like to. This is why, e.g. in TvZ, at some point in the mid-/lategame you make a mixed group of medic&marine: You cannot afford to have a separate group with only 3-4 medics, instead you want to bring those additional 8-9 marines that could fit into that group, even if you can't stim those marines instantly.
- if you don't have to instantly use a specific command of a certain type of unit represented in that control-group. Example: In TvP lategame, the few vessels that you bring with your army might be needed for EMP against arbiter, yes, but many people just group them together with other units because usually you have enough time to select a vessel manually, and across the board it is better to assign more units to the (otherwise almost empty) vessel-ctrl-group.
- if you don't need the additionaly precision in your army movement to tell different types of units where to go. Example: In TvP you just want a group of mixed reinforcemens (vultures, tanks, goliaths) to move somewhere on the map but you don't want to send them there without putting them on a hotkey, so you just group them all in one. For your main-army though, you want the vultures and tanks on separate hotkeys of course, to roam around and dart forward and lay mines with the vults and to have your tanks under control in the back and ready to siege at all points.
- anytime you personally can deal with it. Some people don't seem to have a big problem with mixing everything and moving out. If they need more precision, they do some precise boxing, then select individual caster-/ability-units if they need them or they ctrl-click to select units of a certain type (up to 12 only obviously). In many situations that is sufficient and it saves you the time/concentration of arranging your ctrl-groups neatly.
vittu: generally i grab clumps of units and move them toward my army, then add them to the groups when they get there if you try to move stuff together while it's too far apart they'll start clumping (see magic box link that highgamer posted)
cheeseofme: it's always better to have stuff hotkeyed separately so you can micro them separately, but it's a time tradeoff lategame often it's more important to keep up the unit pump and unit movement versus having perfect micro
lategame i tend to just hotkey big clumps of units, ignoring splitting them up by unit usually i'll have 1 or 2 groups by themselves (1 group vults, 1 group tanks, or 2 groups marines, etc) so i can micro them separately (to lay minefields, siege immediately, and stim respectively) but often i'll have marines, vults, tanks, w.e mixed into the other hotkeys
On September 22 2018 00:07 Cheesefome wrote: I have a question about hot keys. Do people always hot key the same type of units to the same digit every game or do people usually improvise? When is it okay to group multiple types of units into 1 hotkey(ex. vessels,marines,tanks on hotkey number1)?
Some people do, some people don't.
Hotkeys have three uses: 1. Ease of control This is when you have something in a hotkey to make it easier to control. For example, if you're microing two marines against a zealot you should probably hotkey each of 'em to a different number. 2. Ease of selection That's when you put something in a number so you don't have to move your screen to select it. For example your production buildings, or a stack of corsair with a probe.
3. Task prioritization When you have something important, you should probably hotkey it in a premium number. For example Bisu hotkeys his Corsair in number 1 during the early game, and number 0 afterwards.
Most situations will have a combination of these factors that may or may not lead to a particular hotkeying scheme.
It's important to note that the more you learn about strategy, the better your hotkeying decisions will be.
i think the best piece of advice anyone can give regarding hotkeys is to just say "hotkey whatever you want". dont try and stick to someones specific hotkey setup, and dont force yourself into thinking that you have to maintain that hotkey system the whole game.
pros may have a preferred hotkey system that they "generally" use, but the reality is pros change their hotkey assignments during the game A LOT of times. many protoss pros for example may have a 160/200 army ready and have zealots/dragoons etc all hotkeyed to 1-4, but they decide to recall into a base and instantly switch their hotkeys to arbiter 2 and the big clump of units to 1 (or they briefly change their f location hotkey to the clump). they essentially destroyed their entire hotkey "system" just for the ease of moving between screens for a smoother recall. then they will reassign the units that havent been recalled and just manually group units with their mouse when microing the ones that did get recalled.
its a lot of back and forth with hotkeys and very tedious stuff, but its a big reason why they have such high apm and are able to switch screens so effectively. their hotkeys and f key locations are always changing to suit what they need at that time.
On September 20 2018 20:14 Liquid`Drone wrote: randomprecision, the reason why the first attack deals 9 damage is actually that mutalisks (like all zerg units) instantly regenerate one hit point when hit.
Like if you have two vultures killing drones, you have to be very on point to two shot them, both vults need to be equally far from the drones shooting at the same time. Just a small fraction of a second difference means they survive with 1 hp.
Thanks. I went and tested some more and this checks out. I thought the regen was at a steady pace.
it is at a steady pace, but the game has fractional HP that it doesn't show you
drones actually have 0.1 hp or whatever every frame (frame being engine frames, so 1/24 of a second, not 1/60) which means they don't die because their hp didn't drop below 0
On September 20 2018 20:14 Liquid`Drone wrote: randomprecision, the reason why the first attack deals 9 damage is actually that mutalisks (like all zerg units) instantly regenerate one hit point when hit.
Like if you have two vultures killing drones, you have to be very on point to two shot them, both vults need to be equally far from the drones shooting at the same time. Just a small fraction of a second difference means they survive with 1 hp.
Thanks. I went and tested some more and this checks out. I thought the regen was at a steady pace.
it is at a steady pace, but the game has fractional HP that it doesn't show you
drones actually have 0.1 hp or whatever every frame (frame being engine frames, so 1/24 of a second, not 1/60) which means they don't die because their hp didn't drop below 0
Ah I see, thanks for the explanation.
On the Scourge Vs Carrier thing, I tested it here and it seems they do not prioritize the interceptors, but instead hit whatever is closest, which will be them in most cases.
Here's a video
And another one (even the Vessel behind the Carrier dies lmao)
Nevermind the audio as I'm having problems recording this VMs output
I recently saw a video of a protoss walking a probe right up to a terran wall, warping in a pylon in the spot where the probe was standing, and then it was able to scoot right across the terran buildings. Is the technique for doing this basically to spam right-click at the correct timing after the pylon starts, and is there any special placement of the pylon relative to the wall that has to be used, other than being right up against it? Couldn't find the video again today.
On September 24 2018 10:02 badpenny wrote: I recently saw a video of a protoss walking a probe right up to a terran wall, warping in a pylon in the spot where the probe was standing, and then it was able to scoot right across the terran buildings. Is the technique for doing this basically to spam right-click at the correct timing after the pylon starts, and is there any special placement of the pylon relative to the wall that has to be used, other than being right up against it? Couldn't find the video again today.
Just spam right-click. No correct timing is needed.
Probe needs to be as close to the wall as possible, then make the Pylon in between him and the wall.
This happens because once you place a building where the Probe is standing the game tries to find another valid location for him. If you spam right-click it will influence the direction the Probe is more likely to go. Once it goes there, it is on top of the Terran building, which is also an invalid location, so it slides inside the wall.
I did some testing here with walls made of supply depots and barracks and it seems to only be possible if you're coming from top to bottom. You can do it on mineral patches in any direction though.
On September 22 2018 15:04 evilfatsh1t wrote: i think the best piece of advice anyone can give regarding hotkeys is to just say "hotkey whatever you want". dont try and stick to someones specific hotkey setup, and dont force yourself into thinking that you have to maintain that hotkey system the whole game.
pros may have a preferred hotkey system that they "generally" use, but the reality is pros change their hotkey assignments during the game A LOT of times. many protoss pros for example may have a 160/200 army ready and have zealots/dragoons etc all hotkeyed to 1-4, but they decide to recall into a base and instantly switch their hotkeys to arbiter 2 and the big clump of units to 1 (or they briefly change their f location hotkey to the clump). they essentially destroyed their entire hotkey "system" just for the ease of moving between screens for a smoother recall. then they will reassign the units that havent been recalled and just manually group units with their mouse when microing the ones that did get recalled.
its a lot of back and forth with hotkeys and very tedious stuff, but its a big reason why they have such high apm and are able to switch screens so effectively. their hotkeys and f key locations are always changing to suit what they need at that time.
To add another example: i've seen in larvas FPV that he hotkeys his scourges in seperate groups, so he can clone them superfast to the vessel cloud:
Then he does 1-A-click, 2-A-click, 3-A-click, 4-A-click. And because all the scourges are in 1, they allready move in the general good direction. If you'd grouped them in sets of 2, the 4th group starts moving way later.
yeah the scourge hotkeying is really common in all matchups for zerg. corsair snipes/muta fights and vessel snipes. important to note that these are being done halfway through the game when the average player has everything else hotkeyed
On September 24 2018 10:02 badpenny wrote: I recently saw a video of a protoss walking a probe right up to a terran wall, warping in a pylon in the spot where the probe was standing, and then it was able to scoot right across the terran buildings. Is the technique for doing this basically to spam right-click at the correct timing after the pylon starts, and is there any special placement of the pylon relative to the wall that has to be used, other than being right up against it? Couldn't find the video again today.
Just spam right-click. No correct timing is needed.
Probe needs to be as close to the wall as possible, then make the Pylon in between him and the wall.
This happens because once you place a building where the Probe is standing the game tries to find another valid location for him. If you spam right-click it will influence the direction the Probe is more likely to go. Once it goes there, it is on top of the Terran building, which is also an invalid location, so it slides inside the wall.
I did some testing here with walls made of supply depots and barracks and it seems to only be possible if you're coming from top to bottom. You can do it on mineral patches in any direction though.
Hey, thanks, I didn't mean for anyone to take the time to experiment to answer this for me, but it's really appreciated! I found the video again, and it looks like you can also do it left-to-right but there IS a specific pylon placement that appears to be used.
At 1:36 there are 2 examples. But rand0MPrecisi0n, going top-to-bottom, you can just do pretty much whatever? Good to know.
On September 24 2018 10:02 badpenny wrote: I recently saw a video of a protoss walking a probe right up to a terran wall, warping in a pylon in the spot where the probe was standing, and then it was able to scoot right across the terran buildings. Is the technique for doing this basically to spam right-click at the correct timing after the pylon starts, and is there any special placement of the pylon relative to the wall that has to be used, other than being right up against it? Couldn't find the video again today.
Just spam right-click. No correct timing is needed.
Probe needs to be as close to the wall as possible, then make the Pylon in between him and the wall.
This happens because once you place a building where the Probe is standing the game tries to find another valid location for him. If you spam right-click it will influence the direction the Probe is more likely to go. Once it goes there, it is on top of the Terran building, which is also an invalid location, so it slides inside the wall.
I did some testing here with walls made of supply depots and barracks and it seems to only be possible if you're coming from top to bottom. You can do it on mineral patches in any direction though.
Hey, thanks, I didn't mean for anyone to take the time to experiment to answer this for me, but it's really appreciated! I found the video again, and it looks like you can also do it left-to-right but there IS a specific pylon placement that appears to be used.
At 1:36 there are 2 examples. But rand0MPrecisi0n, going top-to-bottom, you can just do pretty much whatever? Good to know.
It appears that the Probe is on top of the rax which is what allows it to slide. The buildings seem to have a bigger hitbox toward the top than other directions. But you're right that it's not top to bottom but more a diagonal thing. The depot helps by making more locations invalid.
Yes, top to bottom you can do on a flat wall. You can actually slide on just a barracks, factory or supply depot if you want.
What is the best way to stop the 1/1/1 opening as zerg in zvt? And the 2 port cloak variety?
I am also having a hard time scouting this. On maps like fighting spirit I am scouting on 12 + 2 overs and still end up missing it if I drone scout them last. Should I be drone scouting earlier to find this?
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/qMxpFVm.jpg)
