EPTcc goes down after 1 or 2 marines with a typical rax cc
leave lings at the front and poke in to check marine count
if they wall and their rax isnt flashing thats also a giveaway
vs 111 i'd just hydraling allin
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 400
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
cc goes down after 1 or 2 marines with a typical rax cc leave lings at the front and poke in to check marine count if they wall and their rax isnt flashing thats also a giveaway vs 111 i'd just hydraling allin | ||
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yenta
Poland1142 Posts
On September 25 2018 21:01 Dead9 wrote: dont scout earlier, check marine count and expansion timing cc goes down after 1 or 2 marines with a typical rax cc leave lings at the front and poke in to check marine count if they wall and their rax isnt flashing thats also a giveaway vs 111 i'd just hydraling allin Do you make 6 ling's? The way the last guy did it it looked exactly like cc expand. No wall, 2 rines, cc, then I catch a culture out of the corner of my eye on the minimap  | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
the timing of the cc is different. rax cc drops CC when the first marine spawns, when the second marine spawns at the latest watch the replay and compare it to a typical rax cc edit: also even if you only catch vult when it pops out, you can drop a sunken and block your ramp for a moment (it's like 5s, less if it's cross map) while sunk finishes | ||
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Highgamer
1412 Posts
On September 25 2018 19:16 yenta wrote: What is the best way to stop the 1/1/1 opening as zerg in zvt? And the 2 port cloak variety? I am also having a hard time scouting this. On maps like fighting spirit I am scouting on 12 + 2 overs and still end up missing it if I drone scout them last. Should I be drone scouting earlier to find this? Just a few additonal thoughts on this that might help you. As far as scouting is concerned, just a detail: Terran scouts later with the 1-1-1. So if you know the timing at which the usual 11-supply-SCV scouts you on first try and that SCV appears on said timing, you can deduce that it's not 1-1-1. Another thing, just so you know what happens in Terran's head: Because of the late, single-SCV scout, Terran will try to catch a glimpse at your overlord or scouting-drone with that SCV outside his natural to see from which close-position they come - and otherwise might go scout cross-map. This might "look different" than the usual double-SCV-scout movement, and these little things can give away a lot in the early game. If you scout the 1-1-1 so late that the vult is already out and it encounters your lings, never let those lings just run home and be chased down by the vulture. If you rather just tell your lings to attack the vulture or his natural (where only one poor marine holds guard until the factory-upgrade is finished and the next vulture comes) you will cause certain Terrans a problem, at least occupy the vulture for a little bit. One way to probably win a lot of your games against 1-1-1 on up to a pretty high rank is to just flood him with (speed)lings asap. 1-1-1 is incredibly fragile until mines are planted (and even then single-file lings are scary). You can hit him when he has 1-2 marines and 1-2 vultures, mines or vulture-speed not finished. Dealing with a mass of lings with that feeble army will cost him all his attention and probably a lot of SCVs. At least you should be able to mess up his build. You can decide how all-in you go here. Only problem with this is that when the Terrans get actually good, they will scout your ling-bust early (because they keep their scouting SCV alive and know what to look for) and they will know how to block your bust and how to follow up, and their vulture-micro will be much crisper and won't disturb their macroing. On the other hand, I found it hard to play against Zergs who only get one or two sets of lings and build the creep-colony anyway to be prepared if they're not 100% sure it's 1rax-expo. Especially if you cannot even get the delayed SCV-scout in Zerg's base or lose the SCV quickly it could be anything from Zerg. Early mutas (2hatch or 18hatch) hit before irradiate is finished and can force T to overproduce turrets or kill him directly if he's unprepared, or indirectly because he messes up his macro during all the defensive multitasking. He doesn't have the usual 3-5 rax marine-production. Another strategy is to build a few hydras, keep your overlods close by and cleanly deal with the wraith (and keep Terran in the dark if possible so that he doesn't know if/when you go spire; he has no scans). Then you patiently expect his push which shouldn't reach you before 9.00-10.00 minutes and prepare a big swell of lair-tech-units for it. You should be able to start a third at some point before he pushes out. His push has a few irradiates if you couldn't scourge any vessels, but its marine-count is relatively small at first compared to what you can muster up, so oftentimes you can crush it with just enough hydra-lurker-ling and left-over mutas if he overextends. If he's clever and waits for more units, well you can build even more units from your 3base-economy and your hive should be on the way by then, but it's an even game at that point. | ||
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Rlentless
Hong Kong322 Posts
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iopq
United States948 Posts
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ajmbek
Italy460 Posts
On September 26 2018 09:46 Rlentless wrote: Doing 1-1-1 I have most trouble with zergs going 2.5/3 hatch mutaling allins. You bait out a couple of irradiates with your mutas and try to kill them with scourge while mass building lings in the background and hit the front at around 8mins while the additional barracks are not yet finished. This is very effective if terran has no vulture map presence and did not get both mines and speed upgrades. The lings will make it very difficult for the terran to surround the bunker and repair. If terran doesn't react fast enough mutalings will break even 2 bunkers. Then u just build a couple more mutas and mass lings till terran dies or if you took way too many ling losses go for the workers. hahahahahha good one hahhaa | ||
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yenta
Poland1142 Posts
On September 26 2018 09:46 Rlentless wrote: Doing 1-1-1 I have most trouble with zergs going 2.5/3 hatch mutaling allins. You bait out a couple of irradiates with your mutas and try to kill them with scourge while mass building lings in the background and hit the front at around 8mins while the additional barracks are not yet finished. This is very effective if terran has no vulture map presence and did not get both mines and speed upgrades. The lings will make it very difficult for the terran to surround the bunker and repair. If terran doesn't react fast enough mutalings will break even 2 bunkers. Then u just build a couple more mutas and mass lings till terran dies or if you took way too many ling losses go for the workers. The lings sound very situational. Even 1 good mine wrecks this. | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
hydraling and mutaling allins are both very hard to hold with 111 | ||
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rockon1215
United States612 Posts
What I understand so far:
When do I get my second gas? How many lings should I get and when vs 1-1-1? Should I still sim city w/ a sunk + evo/hydra den? When would I prefer 2 hatch to 2.5 hatch? Thanks for any help | ||
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kogeT
Poland2040 Posts
On October 02 2018 12:48 rockon1215 wrote: With all the talk of this 2.5/18 hatch build...what exactly is the build? What I understand so far:
When do I get my second gas? How many lings should I get and when vs 1-1-1? Should I still sim city w/ a sunk + evo/hydra den? When would I prefer 2 hatch to 2.5 hatch? Thanks for any help In all 2 hath builds you make your 2nd gas when spire has 200 hp. That will give you 700 gas and 7 larvas. You never make evo, you can make 1 sunken. Hydra den is optional, if you can hide your ovies you don't need hydras to defend wraith with scourge. If terran is going factory, wraith, possible drop/speed before CC (you need to look at CC timing), you may want to consider hydra den. | ||
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ajmbek
Italy460 Posts
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6638 Posts
On October 02 2018 18:37 ajmbek wrote: is there a new season? It started a couple of months ago or so. Edit: Apparently yes | ||
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rockon1215
United States612 Posts
On October 02 2018 17:18 kogeT wrote: In all 2 hath builds you make your 2nd gas when spire has 200 hp. That will give you 700 gas and 7 larvas. You never make evo, you can make 1 sunken. Hydra den is optional, if you can hide your ovies you don't need hydras to defend wraith with scourge. If terran is going factory, wraith, possible drop/speed before CC (you need to look at CC timing), you may want to consider hydra den. Thanks! | ||
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elKa-ThE-FeArEd
Sweden176 Posts
On October 02 2018 18:37 ajmbek wrote: is there a new season? yup started yesterday | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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Yanokabo
268 Posts
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iopq
United States948 Posts
On October 13 2018 06:53 Alpha-NP- wrote: When might Devourers be useful in ZvP? After 2base Mutas does ZvP ever see Devourers? when you make guardians to camp ledges and they respond with corsairs | ||
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Frudgey
Canada3367 Posts
Why aren't Wraiths used against Carriers on maps that are good for Carriers? I ask because I would imagine Wraiths would have an easier time reaching the Carriers than Goliaths. As to why Wraiths aren't used, I would guess that Dragoons, Carriers, Corsairs + whatever else the Protoss has does very well against them, and you can't really properly support the Wraiths. Is this correct? | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
storm or 1-2 rounds of sair also melts however many sairs you have however wraiths are useable as a one shot surprise. if p doesn't expect it sometimes you can pick off all the cars before they have time to do anything | ||
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