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Blizzard's Response: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20760966718?page=9#post-166 | ||
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GoShox
United States1843 Posts
On January 19 2018 12:11 BigFan wrote: So, you think Blizzard allows orgs to run BW tournaments for free? That's not what he said at all.... I too have seen this ~$94,000 figure thrown around a lot and I've wondered if it's actually accurate since people seem to take it as a fact at this point. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On January 19 2018 12:11 BigFan wrote: So, you think Blizzard allows orgs to run BW tournaments for free? Either way, that's not really the issue here. To answer your question, I believe that post is the main one we have seeing as we'll never get an actual confirmation of just how much Afreeca has to pay to host an ASL. How is it not really the issue? Afreeca is urging people to pressure Blizzard into 'cooperating' into bringing about ASL5. And while I'm sure there's lots of people about ready to crucify Blizzard based on rumours and gossip, it kinda makes a difference to me if Blizzard is actually charging an exorbitant fee or if Afreeca is using this as a tactic to shark Blizzard over some branding dispute. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On January 19 2018 12:16 GoShox wrote: That's not what he said at all.... I too have seen this ~$94,000 figure thrown around a lot and I've wondered if it's actually accurate since people seem to take it as a fact at this point. yes, I'm aware that wasn't what he was implying. On January 19 2018 12:21 ZigguratOfUr wrote: How is it not really the issue? Afreeca is urging people to pressure Blizzard into 'cooperating' into bringing about ASL5. And while I'm sure there's lots of people about ready to crucify Blizzard based on rumours and gossip, it kinda makes a difference to me if Blizzard is actually charging an exorbitant fee or if Afreeca is using this as a tactic to shark Blizzard over some branding dispute. this fee stuff was mentioned like 6 months ago by some anonymous source in the Information from Korea thread (I believe, someone linked KHJ's post earlier in the thread) so like I mentioned, this will never get confirmed by either party. I said it's not really the main issue because Afreeca recently ran ASL4 so they must've paid the fee upfront if it exists regardless of how much blizzard asked. In other words, if they plan to run ASL5, they already know and must've come to terms with how much they have to pay blizzard. They already said they are ready to run ASL5 as well. Also, nowhere in the OP did Afreeca complain about the cost of paying blizzard for running ASL5. They realize they are going into the red but it's worth it to them so that's not really the issue at hand. No one really knows the whole story here but from the perspective of the community and the little information we have, Blizzard is stifling one of the only competitive tournaments left for BW and destroying the remaining BW scene. I'm fairly sick of seeing it constantly happen. All any of us want is to see the players compete and enjoy their games yet this last year, ever since Blizzard made it public that RM will be released, has been disastrous. First, no ATB2 then ASL4 had its patch, no ATB3 and now ASL5 is in the balance. It makes it even worse when you consider that ASL1/2/3 ran mostly without a hitch aside from the newest patch issue for ASL3 and this was all before remastered. Same when Sonic was running SSL back in the day aside from that one little hiccup where he forgot to get a license for the finals lol but even that was rectified quite fast. | ||
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Icysoul
Canada254 Posts
The short answer is that Blizzard and organizers of ASL are currently unable to come to an agreement with regards to the terms of the IP distribution. The longer answer is that Activision Blizzard perhaps has a set of standard terms for when anyone wants to use their IP for commercial purposes, in this case organizing a tournament. These terms will include things like restrictions on the distribution of the IP, costs of distribution and such. The two organizations are currently engaging in negotiations for the exact terms of these restrictions and costs. These days the BW scene isn't doing as well as it was before. Money is hard to come by. These type of circumstances place a heavy emphasis on the exact terms of IP distribution. Perhaps the cost imposed by blizzard is too high for organizers of ASL, or perhaps the terms of distribution is too restrictive and difficult for the organizers to commercialize. Either way, some disagreement on some portion of the contract is causing the current stalemate. This may or may not include the fee that is being speculated in this thread. It certainly does not preclude it. This has nothing to do with BW Remastered devs, everything to do with business managers and lawyers. I'm sure the devs would want every bit as you guys to have the tournament go through, for who wouldn't want the game they're developing to do well? The hurdle lies in the corporate and the legal side of things. I imagine the organizers of ASL want to leverage the community for better terms on the agreement, so that is where we currently stand. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4414 Posts
Just go back to 1.16.1 | ||
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JacktheTerr
United States97 Posts
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Lazare1969
United States318 Posts
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
On January 19 2018 13:44 Lazare1969 wrote: It would be better for Afreeca's sake to just abandon ASL and focus on game companies that actually wish to cooperate in e-sports, like PUBG Corporation has demonstrated. OGN already made this wise business decision years ago. Maybe they actually care about bw and its fans. Unlike a certain relevant company. | ||
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Marl
United States694 Posts
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baiesradu
Romania150 Posts
For the first time in my life I am in the position to make a life dream come true. I might be able to go to Korea with two of my best friends and see a Brood war final ! We have to fly for 14 hours and I have been looking into what I have to do and all I need right now is the schedule for the ASL 5 . I've been waiting for it to appear and nothing and now I know why . FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK you Blizzard ! What the fuck do you you want ? | ||
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GunSlinger
614 Posts
On January 19 2018 06:40 Incomplete..ReV wrote: Although I agree it's frustrating - infuriating even - I don't agree that simply saying "fuck Blizzard" is going to help. The ASL needs support, not someone who says bad things for them. How do we best give this help? How can we best voice our concerns and see to that they see that there's many of us, and not just some personalities speaking on the game's behalf? For instance, is there a mail adress we can send mails to? Not necessarily some copy/paste-stuff, as I reckon it's easy to think it's just a bunch of bots doing it. But if as many as possible state that they want to see the ASL happen, why and that there's still a following, wouldn't that at least be much better than simply being angry? To ask wiser minds than myself - what can we do to increase our chances for a constructive solution, as much as possible? I can see that a lot of people posting in this thread are emotional and might be feeling betrayed. I know I certainly feel that way right now... I can understand "business as usual", but I really cannot understand why Blizzard would need to conduct itself this way. Do they really need that $89 000, or whatever amount, they are asking for? Do they really need to push their products at a Starcraft tournament? I don't know. It doesn't make sense and it seems malicious to me, considering the kind of legacy this game has. But I really don't understand what is going on behind the scenes. What we need to do now, is to start trying to find a SOLUTION. What can we do? Look at this fucking thread. This is the most active BW thread I have seen in a long time. We are all outraged by the seemingly cold treatment of Blizzard (pun not intended). But what can we do with our outrage? Type in "fuck Blizzard" over and over? Where does that leave us? This is all something we care about, obviously. I love the ASL. It is a great event and embodies the true spirit of competition. But I alone cannot do anything to rectify the Afreeca/Blizzard situation. We need to come together and unify as one voice. Bring whatever we have to the table and reason this through! Anybody with any information or insight, anything that could help, come forward! We need this nonsense to stop. We need to appeal to higher powers and let them know that we are here, and that we can be powerful as well. I am tired of seeing Blizzard choking the life out of competitive Starcraft and I am prepared to do my part to stop it. With proper guidance I believe we can overcome this hurdle and in time we can have a healthy Starcraft scene again. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10717 Posts
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baiesradu
Romania150 Posts
I wrote this to support @ Blizzard: Hello , I am writing this email in a furious state of mind and if I come across as toxic I would like to apologize in advance. I have been dreaming my whole adult life to go and see a Brood War tournament final in Korea. It was something always out of reach because of financial reasons. And then it was out of reach because Brood war died and I had to accept that . But now it's alive again and I overcame the financial obstacles . It's a 14 hours or more flight but me and two of my best friends might be able to make it. And all I really need right now is to plan and overcome practical difficulties (family, work ) and ASL 5 is not happening and I have a feeling it's because of Blizzard . Why are you doing this ? What is happening ? The first money I was able to save after I got a job was for SC1. But by then SC2 was just out so I bought that one first. I bought Brood war too , and SC remastered and war chest because of the support for the scene and nothing else. I bought them for my friends too even thought they have even less time to play than I do. I know I'm a single guy sending one email to a robot email address but trust me on this : if you sacrifice fans for corporate greed I know I have only one thing to do : decide how I spend my money . And I will do that . And I am not a developing teenager that can be brought back with a cookie . If you sacrifice the people that made you what you are today, if you are holding back the people that want to keep showing love for the game that you created , not just me but my children and my friends children as much as I can help that will not buy a single Blizzard title in their entire life . I can not control what you do, I can only control what I do and I can live without your games if you guys force me to. You took Kespa out and I don't think the scene is better for it, now you have the opportunity you always wanted , and so far it's not looking like you really know what you're doing. It doesn't look like you are prepared . Please don't ruin this for the people that love your game so much ! They will still love the game but they can hate the company ! You made fun of EA . What's the point if you become them ? I'm used to being dissapointed by corporate greed, especially from America but this is the best I can do , This hurts me deeply and it's my fault because I am old enough to know that things(person) that you love the most are the things(person) that can hurt you the most. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10398 Posts
Second, is there some kind of petition we can sign or mass tweet @Blizzard that we could do? So far I only see complaining, but I want a plan to actually get rolled out so we can try to push the issue into the spotlight so Blizzard can try to see some reason. User was warned for this post because it shows that they are an incompetent noob-meister who doesn't even know the actual history of the site that he is a staff member for. | ||
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baiesradu
Romania150 Posts
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mLtySC
68 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 19 2018 15:15 FlaShFTW wrote: First off, to those people who are currently telling us to move on, remember where you are. This place, teamliquid, was built off of Starcraft since 2006. Do not tell us to move on. If you don't like that we're die hard fans, then leave. Second, is there some kind of petition we can sign or mass tweet @Blizzard that we could do? So far I only see complaining, but I want a plan to actually get rolled out so we can try to push the issue into the spotlight so Blizzard can try to see some reason. *2001, we've always been driven by SC | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12039 Posts
On January 19 2018 14:55 GGzerG wrote: Damn.... I was so hype for Remastered, honestly now I wish iCCup was back... Really. As I said, don't blame the devs. Remastered isn't the problem it's the executives. Also iCCUP didn't care about BW either. All their systems were built around DOTA and they didn't want to change any of it, hence why there was only a specific small map pool. | ||
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Incomplete..ReV
Norway648 Posts
For instance the same adress as baiesradu sent to (support@blizzard.com?). If we make a #SaveASL5 hashtag and spread it to our friends and overall community, we can add when and where to send the mail. As for the content of the mail, there are certain things I think are really important. 1. Focus on the love of the game, not the hatred of Blizzard. Explain why you love the game, why it's important to you. Make them know that even though you might not play much or anything like that, you watch the ASL nonetheless and want to keep the tournament happening. 2. We don't know what's happening behind the scenes. Accept that. There's a lot of speculations and many of them might be close to the mark - correct even! - but if we start saying things like "yeah, you want nothing more than to kill bw so you can make sc2 a giant success!", we might end up not being taken quite seriously. We don't know for a fact. Deal with it. Focus on what's important - your love for BW, and that the game may live. 3. Don't make empty threats. Although you might feel right now that if ASL is shut down due to Blizzard, you'll never buy a Blizzard product again. Chances are that 95% of the people making this threat, will end up buying a Blizzard product nonetheless. Making a big point out of that is less likely to make an impact. Stick to what matters - why we love BW. 4. Your nickname. If we add our nicknames, it can be a lot easier to prove that we're not just some bot. Probably not entirely, of course, but I feel it might give a lot more depth to the entire situation. In conclusion: Phase 1: Agreeing in this thread on what email to send to. It doesn't have to be the best option, but it is imperative that we coordinate and stick to whatever is chosen. Even if we think it's stupid. Being together on a mediocre solution is far better than being scattered. Phase 2: Get the #SaveASL5 going and spread the word of the mail adress and what the content should be. Phase 3: Send the mail on 21, January. Does this sound reasonable? Could this be something you'd be interesting in doing? And are there anyone who knows who might be the best person to send to? Or if we should simply send to a support mail? | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On January 19 2018 07:08 Kaewins wrote: Can anyone explain to me what reason Blizzard could possibly have for not supporting this? I mean they make so much money, that what we're talking about here is just silly. It isn't like we ask of them to run 20 ASLs, it isn't unreasonable and SC:R just launched, so what's the deal? The fee existed on BW and there was some kind of scandal about OGN or GOM or i don't remember which one not paying fee. Also Sonic mentioned that i guess at some point. I'm sure someone will correct me (and link the story). The thing i don't get is why don't they start. Because they say they are READY for ASL5 so if they are ready it means they have the money. So issue is somewhere else. But what i really don't get is why they wouldn't let them run tournament. It's like... Few investment from them and publicity. | ||
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