On January 18th, AfreecaTV CEO Seo Soo-Gil called on fans of Brood War to pressure a 'relevant gaming company' into facilitating the start of ASL5. The request came as part of a reply to a post on Mr. Seo's AfreecaTV profile page, which thanked AfreecaTV for holding the ASL and APL (PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds) tournaments. The translation is as follows:
Thanks you for the encouragement, [username redacted].
It's true, in terms of just business, ASL is in the red, and our world first APL is also deeply in the red. But it's not about business, it's about creating culture where our BJ's (streamers) and users get together to create content, and that's way more valuable than a balance sheet.
Everyone called BW a dead game, but the ASL has revived it as a culture that fans around the world enjoy. Battlegrounds was considered difficult to turn into an esport, but I'm happy and satisfied that we're the first to step up to the challenge.
However... as with ASL4, ASL5 is going through a rough patch. The cooperation of the relevant game company is important, but it just isn't working out. The important thing here is the voice of StarCraft 1 fans. I request our users to strongly urge that relevant game company to start ASL5.
AfreecaTV is already ready to start ASL Season 5.
Everyone had left Brood War, saying it couldn't make money, all the companies had left, but it was able to revive itself through ASL. The reason that it was able to live again as memory and culture for fans in their 20's to their 40's was because of streamers and gamers who love Brood War.
Make your voices heard.
I want to start ASL Season 5 quickly. It saddens me.
Stuff like this is really horrible. It makes me regret buying SCR, and in the future I probably won't buy any other games or content released by Blizzard.
I just wish some rich billionaire could buy BW from Blizz entirely and let only Koreans to do whatever the fuck they wanna do with it. Just my wet, maybe desperate dream. While they own it this game will never see bright future and constantly struggle for it's existence.
Please don't blame the dev team for this. They likely have no say in anything going on what so all. This will be the bigwigs at Blizzard wanting more money for their shareholders, that's the sad thing about big business.
On January 19 2018 05:51 Leeoku wrote: Legit question though, how can they operate still if all their events are int he red?
Afreeca makes enough money from streamers through balloons and advertising that they offset their losses from the ASL. There's also the need to provide a competitive platform for the players/streamers through tournaments like the ASL and ATB.
sometimes it seems there is a huge disconnect between the blizzard developer/pr team and the business/trademark/rights/MONEY team. This is why big companies suck, money rules all.
Although I agree it's frustrating - infuriating even - I don't agree that simply saying "fuck Blizzard" is going to help. The ASL needs support, not someone who says bad things for them.
How do we best give this help? How can we best voice our concerns and see to that they see that there's many of us, and not just some personalities speaking on the game's behalf?
For instance, is there a mail adress we can send mails to? Not necessarily some copy/paste-stuff, as I reckon it's easy to think it's just a bunch of bots doing it. But if as many as possible state that they want to see the ASL happen, why and that there's still a following, wouldn't that at least be much better than simply being angry?
To ask wiser minds than myself - what can we do to increase our chances for a constructive solution, as much as possible?
holy shit a thread where everyone isnt sucking blizzards dick. But in all seriousness, it will be difficult to convince a company to invest money in exchange for advertising in a 2 decade old game. That pitch needs to be amazing
On January 19 2018 06:49 LongShot27 wrote: holy shit a thread where everyone isnt sucking blizzards dick. But in all seriousness, it will be difficult to convince a company to invest money in exchange for advertising in a 2 decade old game. That pitch needs to be amazing
The thing is that they arent investing shit but charging 89k to Afreeca.
On January 19 2018 06:49 LongShot27 wrote: holy shit a thread where everyone isnt sucking blizzards dick. But in all seriousness, it will be difficult to convince a company to invest money in exchange for advertising in a 2 decade old game. That pitch needs to be amazing
The thing is that they arent investing shit but charging 89k to Afreeca.
So Afreeca has event ready, fans ready, players ready, everything covered and on top of that willing to pay blizzard 90k and they just say "no" ? What the fk .. anyone?
Can anyone explain to me what reason Blizzard could possibly have for not supporting this? I mean they make so much money, that what we're talking about here is just silly. It isn't like we ask of them to run 20 ASLs, it isn't unreasonable and SC:R just launched, so what's the deal?
Has the way Blizzard is required to 'cooperate' been confirmed (i.e is the sticking point between Afreeca and Blizzard necessarily the fee, or could it be some other nonsense like branding rights or Afreeca wanting Blizzard to subsidize the costs)?
I hope I'm not the only one that feels somewhat cheated after buying SC:R. The game not only had bugs when it was released, but the servers for 1v1 ladder/games to be played was atrocious as well. It definitely felt like an incomplete product, not to mention that Blizzard seems to have stopped promoting Starcraft now altogether after the release.
Remastered was a huge blow to Korean scene tbh. May be on back to recovery now but it did more damage than harm as early bugs and problem drove viewers and streamers away from bw as it was nigh impossible for some streamers to do group clan wars that attracted lot of viewers for lesser streamers. The group clan wars created ecosystem where big streamers were able to spread viewers and donation around to lesser streamers and encouraged organic growth. But with that not being available for few months due to bad lag, a lot of smaller streamers suffered, and took this opportunity to "branch out".
And now with whole remastered problem with tournament, Koreans are growing with resentment at this point to blizzard when BW realistically is on last legs and blizzard is hampering even the last real generation before all ex pros retire
While I do not at all doubt blizzard's intention with SCR, the handling of esports section has been very very poor.
On January 19 2018 07:18 Kafka777 wrote: BW is a niche old dead game, why would anyone imagine money would be coming into it. Obviously Blizzard supports SC2 and other more relevant games.
i just want the days of 1.16.1 back when blizzard had forgotten about bw and the scene was doing just fine... i hate remastered with such a passion, and it comes with the death of ASL too..
On January 19 2018 07:18 Kafka777 wrote: BW is a niche old dead game, why would anyone imagine money would be coming into it. Obviously Blizzard supports SC2 and other more relevant games.
User was warned for this post.
Why the fuck you came here then? Thought anyone here needed your so smart opinion? I'll be saying the same thing when your fucking game is going fully die.
No one is asking Blizzard to put money into broodwar. Honestly, if top level competition died because there wasn't enough support/sponsorship money I think most of us would be ok with that. What's really irritating is that there are organizers who want to host tournaments, but are being blocked by Blizzard for undisclosed reasons.
Regarding speculation that Blizzard is planning its own league, I hope you can understand why many of us are not hopeful for that. The typical business reason for game companies hosting their own leagues is to sell copies of their game or merchandise associated with it. As broodwar players, many of us already spent the first $15 in years to play the game we like when SCR comes out. I'd much rather competitions be run independently by companies like Afreeca, who profit from streamers of BW, than for us to depend on our enjoyment of BW aligning with Blizzard's current business interests.
So what is the issue here? Is Blizzard for some strange reason preventing AfreecaTV from starting ASL5? Or are they just not supporting the game financially in any way shape or form to the point it will die?
On January 19 2018 07:45 RowdierBob wrote: So what is the issue here? Is Blizzard for some strange reason preventing AfreecaTV from starting ASL5? Or are they just not supporting the game financially in any way shape or form to the point it will die?
Please, the answer is obvious. Blizzard never changed.
It is the same involvement when they announced SC2. Suddenly they were interested in the BW scene.
Is it still possible to refund SCR? I want nothing to do with this crap of a company.
On January 19 2018 07:45 RowdierBob wrote: So what is the issue here? Is Blizzard for some strange reason preventing AfreecaTV from starting ASL5? Or are they just not supporting the game financially in any way shape or form to the point it will die?
From the way the letter reads, it seems like the strange reason option.
On January 19 2018 07:18 Kafka777 wrote: BW is a niche old dead game, why would anyone imagine money would be coming into it. Obviously Blizzard supports SC2 and other more relevant games.
User was warned for this post.
Why the fuck you came here then? Thought anyone here needed your so smart opinion? I'll be saying the same thing when your fucking game is going fully die.
Yeah, why doesnt he just post /sign? Isnt it obvious that you cant have a different point of view?
On January 19 2018 07:40 Endymion wrote: i just want the days of 1.16.1 back when blizzard had forgotten about bw and the scene was doing just fine... i hate remastered with such a passion, and it comes with the death of ASL too..
Yeah.... i was the happiest dude alive prior to remastered in terms of getting my weekend gaming fix. Now it's like i end up more irritated by the time im done for the night.
On January 19 2018 07:18 Kafka777 wrote: BW is a niche old dead game, why would anyone imagine money would be coming into it. Obviously Blizzard supports SC2 and other more relevant games.
User was warned for this post.
Why the fuck you came here then? Thought anyone here needed your so smart opinion? I'll be saying the same thing when your fucking game is going fully die.
Yeah, why doesnt he just post /sign? Isnt it obvious that you cant have a different point of view?
cuz we are here to stand as one and keep this ship floating,no need his crap or yours if you are with him.
On January 19 2018 07:18 Kafka777 wrote: BW is a niche old dead game, why would anyone imagine money would be coming into it. Obviously Blizzard supports SC2 and other more relevant games.
User was warned for this post.
Why the fuck you came here then? Thought anyone here needed your so smart opinion? I'll be saying the same thing when your fucking game is going fully die.
Yeah, why doesnt he just post /sign? Isnt it obvious that you cant have a different point of view?
Thank you for clearing that for me, you must be a special one and deserve a medal but I think I run out of them, will some cookies make you happy?
I don't fucking still get why SC2 ppl come here and start shitting. I'm sure if Blizz will completely erase this game from universe they still will continue sucking their dick. It's like they're dancing on grave.
Why the fuck you came here then? Thought anyone here needed your so smart opinion? I'll be saying the same thing when your fucking game is going fully die.
I'm only saying - be realistic. I like bw myself, played it a lot. Time to move on.
On January 19 2018 07:18 Kafka777 wrote: BW is a niche old dead game, why would anyone imagine money would be coming into it. Obviously Blizzard supports SC2 and other more relevant games.
User was warned for this post.
Why the fuck you came here then? Thought anyone here needed your so smart opinion? I'll be saying the same thing when your fucking game is going fully die.
Yeah, why doesnt he just post /sign? Isnt it obvious that you cant have a different point of view?
Thank you for clearing that for me, you must be a special one and deserve a medal but I think I run out of them, will some cookies make you happy?
I don't fucking still get why SC2 ppl come here and start shitting. I'm sure if Blizz will completely erase this game from universe they still will continue sucking their dick. It's like they're dancing on grave.
the answer is too obvious. the troll feeds on your reactions.
Why the fuck you came here then? Thought anyone here needed your so smart opinion? I'll be saying the same thing when your fucking game is going fully die.
I'm only saying - be realistic. I like bw myself, played it a lot. Time to move on.
Why the fuck you came here then? Thought anyone here needed your so smart opinion? I'll be saying the same thing when your fucking game is going fully die.
I'm only saying - be realistic. I like bw myself, played it a lot. Time to move on.
There are organizers, willing to host a big tournament with a lot of pize money. There are professional players, eager to compete in any kind of competition. There are fans/viewers all around the world who are still passionate about this game.
We need more details regarding what Blizzard is doing re the ASL if we are to really voice our opinions. What happened!?
I know people have mentioned that Blizz is charging them $X or w/e, but until we hear that from either Blizzard or Afreeca, we shouldn't assume. Give us the necessary details so that we can have an actual petition / protest / whatever. Can someone (korean speaker at least) respond and ask?
Why the fuck you came here then? Thought anyone here needed your so smart opinion? I'll be saying the same thing when your fucking game is going fully die.
I'm only saying - be realistic. I like bw myself, played it a lot. Time to move on.
Why don't you tell that to people who play chess or any other game that has been around for centuries, i mean most people on the planet also don't play those games. What about football and soccer and boxing? Should those people move on as well?
My point is everyone has different tastes and just because you personally dont enjoy something doesn't mean it should be shut down. And why should they move on? As long as it isn't taking over their life and it's not getting in the way of priorities, its fine. I dont get why people like you go around throwing shade on a subject you could care less about. Sounds stupid if you ask me. Do you really have nothing better to do than to click on a subject you seem to hate and make a negative comment?
Your mentality boggles my mind. It's unusual.
Starcraft is a classic. I doubt it's ever going to die even when toxic people like you come around to discourage people.
It's stupid Blizzard demands an $89,000 fee to run a tournament but doesn't contribute a dime. I really am sick of this company. It's almost as bad as the pay to play Activision patches they keep coming out with. I promise I won't ever pay attention to Blizzard products again because of the fiasco and half-assed screwup of Starcraft Remastered.
On January 19 2018 07:18 Kafka777 wrote: BW is a niche old dead game, why would anyone imagine money would be coming into it. Obviously Blizzard supports SC2 and other more relevant games.
User was warned for this post.
Get a ~70k usd prize pool for the last season, probably have a similar prize pool for this season, struggle to come up with the extra 100k usd for trademark rights so the tournament can't be run. Somehow its lack of money coming into a dead game and not blizzard being greedy.
On January 19 2018 07:18 Kafka777 wrote: BW is a niche old dead game, why would anyone imagine money would be coming into it. Obviously Blizzard supports SC2 and other more relevant games.
User was warned for this post.
Get a ~70k usd prize pool for the last season, probably have a similar prize pool for this season, struggle to come up with the extra 100k usd for trademark rights so the tournament can't be run. Somehow its lack of money coming into it and not blizzard being greedy.
Blizzard asked too much for the license fee. How come the fee is a consistent amount given there are so many games way more popular than that?
At this point, I believe that Blizzard also actively shut down OGN being involved in another Proleague/OSL.
As if OGN wouldn't have seen the 300k peak of ASL3, yeah right.
I bet the showmatch organized by OGN was just to justify to the public not to get involved in BW, because Blizzard told them to do so. so that they get a licence for Overwatch.
The saddest thing is that would not even be the most crooked and saddest thing Blizzard pulled off. The shitshow they pull off right now with ASL5 and ATB2 and the horrendous fees just shows how two-faced they are.
On January 19 2018 05:11 Cheesefome wrote: why do they do this... it's crazy? Money corrupts the crap out of people so badddddddd, it's in every corner of the world.
Will i get banned for saying fk blizzard?
fk blizzard!
I will edit my post if admin says so but as of now... fk blizzzzzzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard!!!!!!!!
I honestly don't understand what the thought process is anymore. ATB2, you can at least argue that RM was almost out then we got no ATB3 and no ASL5 which is all ready and is being stopped by Blizzard.
Someone, please explain it to me because I just don't get it anymore! Blizzard isn't even doing squat here, they are just charging a large fee for running the event.
RM has turned out to be the worst possible news for the scene in years. What was supposed to help revitalize it has only halted the growth quite badly. All those bugs on release and news folks leaving due to frustration. Add on the fact that it affected a lot of community projects and it's just been a disaster. Now, the last haven of competitive BW is being negatively affected...
On January 19 2018 12:01 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Was this 100 million won fee ever confirmed, or is everyone still going off that one article on Naver which cited some unnamed "industry insider"?
So, you think Blizzard allows orgs to run BW tournaments for free? Either way, that's not really the issue here. To answer your question, I believe that post is the main one we have seeing as we'll never get an actual confirmation of just how much Afreeca has to pay to host an ASL.
On January 19 2018 12:01 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Was this 100 million won fee ever confirmed, or is everyone still going off that one article on Naver which cited some unnamed "industry insider"?
That s a fair question. But even if the number is not exact, i cant imagine Afreeca releasing such a statement if Blizzard only asked for a reasonable fee (which they are entitled to, i mean it is their game). I guess this is the last effort from them because blizzard wouldnt negotiate.
On January 19 2018 12:01 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Was this 100 million won fee ever confirmed, or is everyone still going off that one article on Naver which cited some unnamed "industry insider"?
So, you think Blizzard allows orgs to run BW tournaments for free?
That's not what he said at all.... I too have seen this ~$94,000 figure thrown around a lot and I've wondered if it's actually accurate since people seem to take it as a fact at this point.
On January 19 2018 12:01 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Was this 100 million won fee ever confirmed, or is everyone still going off that one article on Naver which cited some unnamed "industry insider"?
So, you think Blizzard allows orgs to run BW tournaments for free? Either way, that's not really the issue here. To answer your question, I believe that post is the main one we have seeing as we'll never get an actual confirmation of just how much Afreeca has to pay to host an ASL.
How is it not really the issue? Afreeca is urging people to pressure Blizzard into 'cooperating' into bringing about ASL5. And while I'm sure there's lots of people about ready to crucify Blizzard based on rumours and gossip, it kinda makes a difference to me if Blizzard is actually charging an exorbitant fee or if Afreeca is using this as a tactic to shark Blizzard over some branding dispute.
On January 19 2018 12:01 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Was this 100 million won fee ever confirmed, or is everyone still going off that one article on Naver which cited some unnamed "industry insider"?
So, you think Blizzard allows orgs to run BW tournaments for free?
That's not what he said at all.... I too have seen this ~$94,000 figure thrown around a lot and I've wondered if it's actually accurate since people seem to take it as a fact at this point.
On January 19 2018 12:01 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Was this 100 million won fee ever confirmed, or is everyone still going off that one article on Naver which cited some unnamed "industry insider"?
So, you think Blizzard allows orgs to run BW tournaments for free? Either way, that's not really the issue here. To answer your question, I believe that post is the main one we have seeing as we'll never get an actual confirmation of just how much Afreeca has to pay to host an ASL.
How is it not really the issue? Afreeca is urging people to pressure Blizzard into 'cooperating' into bringing about ASL5. And while I'm sure there's lots of people about ready to crucify Blizzard based on rumours and gossip, it kinda makes a difference to me if Blizzard is actually charging an exorbitant fee or if Afreeca is using this as a tactic to shark Blizzard over some branding dispute.
this fee stuff was mentioned like 6 months ago by some anonymous source in the Information from Korea thread (I believe, someone linked KHJ's post earlier in the thread) so like I mentioned, this will never get confirmed by either party. I said it's not really the main issue because Afreeca recently ran ASL4 so they must've paid the fee upfront if it exists regardless of how much blizzard asked. In other words, if they plan to run ASL5, they already know and must've come to terms with how much they have to pay blizzard. They already said they are ready to run ASL5 as well.
Also, nowhere in the OP did Afreeca complain about the cost of paying blizzard for running ASL5. They realize they are going into the red but it's worth it to them so that's not really the issue at hand. No one really knows the whole story here but from the perspective of the community and the little information we have, Blizzard is stifling one of the only competitive tournaments left for BW and destroying the remaining BW scene. I'm fairly sick of seeing it constantly happen. All any of us want is to see the players compete and enjoy their games yet this last year, ever since Blizzard made it public that RM will be released, has been disastrous. First, no ATB2 then ASL4 had its patch, no ATB3 and now ASL5 is in the balance.
It makes it even worse when you consider that ASL1/2/3 ran mostly without a hitch aside from the newest patch issue for ASL3 and this was all before remastered. Same when Sonic was running SSL back in the day aside from that one little hiccup where he forgot to get a license for the finals lol but even that was rectified quite fast.
As a foreword, I'm legally educated but do not have in-depth knowledge of IP law. Normally I would keep it to myself but since everyone want some answers, I want to provide an educated guess. This is my speculation so don't go around saying non-sense based on my speculations.
The short answer is that Blizzard and organizers of ASL are currently unable to come to an agreement with regards to the terms of the IP distribution.
The longer answer is that Activision Blizzard perhaps has a set of standard terms for when anyone wants to use their IP for commercial purposes, in this case organizing a tournament. These terms will include things like restrictions on the distribution of the IP, costs of distribution and such. The two organizations are currently engaging in negotiations for the exact terms of these restrictions and costs. These days the BW scene isn't doing as well as it was before. Money is hard to come by. These type of circumstances place a heavy emphasis on the exact terms of IP distribution. Perhaps the cost imposed by blizzard is too high for organizers of ASL, or perhaps the terms of distribution is too restrictive and difficult for the organizers to commercialize. Either way, some disagreement on some portion of the contract is causing the current stalemate. This may or may not include the fee that is being speculated in this thread. It certainly does not preclude it.
This has nothing to do with BW Remastered devs, everything to do with business managers and lawyers. I'm sure the devs would want every bit as you guys to have the tournament go through, for who wouldn't want the game they're developing to do well? The hurdle lies in the corporate and the legal side of things. I imagine the organizers of ASL want to leverage the community for better terms on the agreement, so that is where we currently stand.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20760966718 post i made to OPPRESS blizzard we need an army to make a difference. EVERY VOICE MATTERS. Please go post just tell them how you feel and like comments spread the word. the time is now we are the resistance. ***CALL TO ARMS***
It would be better for Afreeca's sake to just abandon ASL and focus on game companies that actually wish to cooperate in e-sports, like PUBG Corporation has demonstrated. OGN already made this wise business decision years ago.
On January 19 2018 13:44 Lazare1969 wrote: It would be better for Afreeca's sake to just abandon ASL and focus on game companies that actually wish to cooperate in e-sports, like PUBG Corporation has demonstrated. OGN already made this wise business decision years ago.
Maybe they actually care about bw and its fans. Unlike a certain relevant company.
Dude this is pissing me off so bad I want to smash something. For the first time in my life I am in the position to make a life dream come true. I might be able to go to Korea with two of my best friends and see a Brood war final ! We have to fly for 14 hours and I have been looking into what I have to do and all I need right now is the schedule for the ASL 5 . I've been waiting for it to appear and nothing and now I know why .
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK you Blizzard ! What the fuck do you you want ?
On January 19 2018 06:40 Incomplete..ReV wrote: Although I agree it's frustrating - infuriating even - I don't agree that simply saying "fuck Blizzard" is going to help. The ASL needs support, not someone who says bad things for them.
How do we best give this help? How can we best voice our concerns and see to that they see that there's many of us, and not just some personalities speaking on the game's behalf?
For instance, is there a mail adress we can send mails to? Not necessarily some copy/paste-stuff, as I reckon it's easy to think it's just a bunch of bots doing it. But if as many as possible state that they want to see the ASL happen, why and that there's still a following, wouldn't that at least be much better than simply being angry?
To ask wiser minds than myself - what can we do to increase our chances for a constructive solution, as much as possible?
I can see that a lot of people posting in this thread are emotional and might be feeling betrayed. I know I certainly feel that way right now... I can understand "business as usual", but I really cannot understand why Blizzard would need to conduct itself this way. Do they really need that $89 000, or whatever amount, they are asking for? Do they really need to push their products at a Starcraft tournament? I don't know. It doesn't make sense and it seems malicious to me, considering the kind of legacy this game has. But I really don't understand what is going on behind the scenes.
What we need to do now, is to start trying to find a SOLUTION. What can we do? Look at this fucking thread. This is the most active BW thread I have seen in a long time. We are all outraged by the seemingly cold treatment of Blizzard (pun not intended). But what can we do with our outrage? Type in "fuck Blizzard" over and over? Where does that leave us?
This is all something we care about, obviously. I love the ASL. It is a great event and embodies the true spirit of competition. But I alone cannot do anything to rectify the Afreeca/Blizzard situation. We need to come together and unify as one voice. Bring whatever we have to the table and reason this through! Anybody with any information or insight, anything that could help, come forward! We need this nonsense to stop. We need to appeal to higher powers and let them know that we are here, and that we can be powerful as well. I am tired of seeing Blizzard choking the life out of competitive Starcraft and I am prepared to do my part to stop it. With proper guidance I believe we can overcome this hurdle and in time we can have a healthy Starcraft scene again.
Any other better idea on what to do ? I wrote this to support @ Blizzard: Hello , I am writing this email in a furious state of mind and if I come across as toxic I would like to apologize in advance.
I have been dreaming my whole adult life to go and see a Brood War tournament final in Korea.
It was something always out of reach because of financial reasons.
And then it was out of reach because Brood war died and I had to accept that .
But now it's alive again and I overcame the financial obstacles .
It's a 14 hours or more flight but me and two of my best friends might be able to make it.
And all I really need right now is to plan and overcome practical difficulties (family, work ) and ASL 5 is
not happening and I have a feeling it's because of Blizzard .
Why are you doing this ? What is happening ?
The first money I was able to save after I got a job was for SC1.
But by then SC2 was just out so I bought that one first.
I bought Brood war too , and SC remastered and war chest because of the support for the scene and nothing else.
I bought them for my friends too even thought they have even less time to play than I do.
I know I'm a single guy sending one email to a robot email address but trust me on this :
if you sacrifice fans for corporate greed I know I have only one thing to do : decide how I spend my money .
And I will do that . And I am not a developing teenager that can be brought back with a cookie .
If you sacrifice the people that made you what you are today, if you are holding back the people that want to keep showing love for the game that you created , not just me but my children and my friends children as much as I can help that will not buy a single Blizzard title in their entire life .
I can not control what you do, I can only control what I do and I can live without your games if you guys force me to.
You took Kespa out and I don't think the scene is better for it, now you have the opportunity you always wanted , and so far it's not looking like you really know what you're doing. It doesn't look like you are prepared .
Please don't ruin this for the people that love your game so much ! They will still love the game but they can hate the company !
You made fun of EA . What's the point if you become them ?
I'm used to being dissapointed by corporate greed, especially from America but this is the best I can do ,
This hurts me deeply and it's my fault because I am old enough to know that things(person) that you love the most are the things(person) that can hurt you the most.
First off, to those people who are currently telling us to move on, remember where you are. This place, teamliquid, was built off of Starcraft since 2006. Do not tell us to move on. If you don't like that we're die hard fans, then leave.
Second, is there some kind of petition we can sign or mass tweet @Blizzard that we could do? So far I only see complaining, but I want a plan to actually get rolled out so we can try to push the issue into the spotlight so Blizzard can try to see some reason.
User was warned for this post because it shows that they are an incompetent noob-meister who doesn't even know the actual history of the site that he is a staff member for.
On January 19 2018 15:15 FlaShFTW wrote: First off, to those people who are currently telling us to move on, remember where you are. This place, teamliquid, was built off of Starcraft since 2006. Do not tell us to move on. If you don't like that we're die hard fans, then leave.
Second, is there some kind of petition we can sign or mass tweet @Blizzard that we could do? So far I only see complaining, but I want a plan to actually get rolled out so we can try to push the issue into the spotlight so Blizzard can try to see some reason.
On January 19 2018 14:55 GGzerG wrote: Damn.... I was so hype for Remastered, honestly now I wish iCCup was back... Really.
As I said, don't blame the devs. Remastered isn't the problem it's the executives.
Also iCCUP didn't care about BW either. All their systems were built around DOTA and they didn't want to change any of it, hence why there was only a specific small map pool.
I'll make a suggestion. If we coordinate on sending an e-mail on the same date, we can hopefully make a real dent. I'd think we need to do it somewhat quickly, so if we say that on Sunday the 21. of Januar we send a mail to a certain adress (I think it's important all send to the same one), we have those two days to spread the word on Twitter etc. to get people in on it.
For instance the same adress as baiesradu sent to (support@blizzard.com?). If we make a #SaveASL5 hashtag and spread it to our friends and overall community, we can add when and where to send the mail. As for the content of the mail, there are certain things I think are really important.
1. Focus on the love of the game, not the hatred of Blizzard. Explain why you love the game, why it's important to you. Make them know that even though you might not play much or anything like that, you watch the ASL nonetheless and want to keep the tournament happening.
2. We don't know what's happening behind the scenes. Accept that. There's a lot of speculations and many of them might be close to the mark - correct even! - but if we start saying things like "yeah, you want nothing more than to kill bw so you can make sc2 a giant success!", we might end up not being taken quite seriously. We don't know for a fact. Deal with it. Focus on what's important - your love for BW, and that the game may live.
3. Don't make empty threats. Although you might feel right now that if ASL is shut down due to Blizzard, you'll never buy a Blizzard product again. Chances are that 95% of the people making this threat, will end up buying a Blizzard product nonetheless. Making a big point out of that is less likely to make an impact. Stick to what matters - why we love BW.
4. Your nickname. If we add our nicknames, it can be a lot easier to prove that we're not just some bot. Probably not entirely, of course, but I feel it might give a lot more depth to the entire situation.
In conclusion:
Phase 1: Agreeing in this thread on what email to send to. It doesn't have to be the best option, but it is imperative that we coordinate and stick to whatever is chosen. Even if we think it's stupid. Being together on a mediocre solution is far better than being scattered. Phase 2: Get the #SaveASL5 going and spread the word of the mail adress and what the content should be. Phase 3: Send the mail on 21, January.
Does this sound reasonable? Could this be something you'd be interesting in doing? And are there anyone who knows who might be the best person to send to? Or if we should simply send to a support mail?
On January 19 2018 07:08 Kaewins wrote: Can anyone explain to me what reason Blizzard could possibly have for not supporting this? I mean they make so much money, that what we're talking about here is just silly. It isn't like we ask of them to run 20 ASLs, it isn't unreasonable and SC:R just launched, so what's the deal?
The fee existed on BW and there was some kind of scandal about OGN or GOM or i don't remember which one not paying fee. Also Sonic mentioned that i guess at some point.
I'm sure someone will correct me (and link the story).
The thing i don't get is why don't they start. Because they say they are READY for ASL5 so if they are ready it means they have the money. So issue is somewhere else.
But what i really don't get is why they wouldn't let them run tournament. It's like... Few investment from them and publicity.
@ Incomplet Rev .the email address I used is not monitored by anyone. I got a reply from Blizzard saying so.
I posted on their facebook page and tweeted that email to Blizzard. I searched for an hour for a way to get in contact with Blizzard support . I found nothing yet .
Your plan sound a lot better than what I did. I'm on board .
There's also a thread I found on battle net . There is a link somewhere here. I posted there too .
Amy Morhaime (nee Chen) is the Senior Global Director for Blizzard eSports at Blizzard Entertainment, and also runs Business Ops for Heroes of the Storm and SC2.
Seems someone in her group would be the right person to send a letter to. I'd email her directly (politely mind you since she might have no knowledge or responsibility regarding the details) and ask who we should reach out to as a community on this subject. If she defaults to community management you should let her know that we have already tried that and gotten an unsatisfactory response.
My sense is that their group has bigger fish to fry than SCR or ASL so whoever is responsible for SCR/ASL is trying to look good by being extra tough so they can get promoted into another role.... aka standard corporate BS.
EDIT (added so the mods here don't have a heart attack): Do not PM me or any TL user or discuss in this thread about what Amy's email or other contact information might be (or contact info for any Blizz employee for that matter).
Good God I can't even imagine the frustration of Afreeca.tv CEO Kevin. Very good of him to call out and I'm looking forward to see how Korean and foreign communities can heed his request
Every other esports developer spends huge amounts of money supporting their esports scenes.. meanwhile Blizzard has spent the 5 years actively trying to kill BW just to milk a few coins out in licensing fees.
On the plus side, at least the Overwatch League is shaping up to be a massive failure.
#*&@] @&#∂∂∂∂###!!! (expressing support towards Afreeca and burning hot outrage and hate towards Blizzard decision makers. Put the dev team in charge of Brood War related decisions!
On January 19 2018 15:15 FlaShFTW wrote: First off, to those people who are currently telling us to move on, remember where you are. This place, teamliquid, was built off of Starcraft since 2006. Do not tell us to move on. If you don't like that we're die hard fans, then leave.
Second, is there some kind of petition we can sign or mass tweet @Blizzard that we could do? So far I only see complaining, but I want a plan to actually get rolled out so we can try to push the issue into the spotlight so Blizzard can try to see some reason.
That is such a bullshit. I never understand why people tell others to move on. In the end we all want use our free time for stuff we enjoy the most. Why should anyone have less fun if theres the possibility to have more fun?
I don't play SC games just watch the Korean tournaments, i play Arena FPS games. Mainly Unreal Tournament. It was released in 1999 so just 1 or 1,5 years "younger" compared to BW and we still play it. Yes, i also play its 2004 iteration which is also considered outdated by such people for sure, and also play the current game under development (unreal tournament pre-alpha if you want to google it). Yeah, the youngest game is the shittiest by far, so many of the few players left simply can't be arsed to switch.
The reason we keep playing a 19 year old game is simply that is one of the best game ever made. Compared to its age it doesn't even look bad actually. obviously the game doesn't have more then a few hundreds players left, or maybe a few thousand worldwide. But we know where to meet (various places at discord and irc) so we can always get a game going. Thank god it doesn't have any centralized services that a company can shut down for financial reasons. So as long as any server company is willing to host UT servers, or somebody is willing to place a PC inside a server farm we will have the option to have servers and play it. They cannot take it away from us.
So i can totally understand BW fans not wanting to move on. Some games are just timeless.
As for financial view i don't understand why blizzard won't give a cut from that 100.000 usd/eur whatever. If companies find it too much then maybe the game is not in that state to claim this money. First i would help them to grow, than after they could get that money many times. Like a trial period or something.
As much as I understand the sentiment of everybody wanting this to take place (myself included) it saddens me to see this largely unfounded anger towards Blizzard. A lot of information are being stated as fact without any sources or validation being available. As stated by the CEO, ASL has been in the red, which can have multiple causes, but it is likely that profitability is one of them. That being said, the business impact that ASL has for AfreecaTV, potentially extents beyond the ASL itself, and can help boost revenue in other areas. It is not uncommon to make sacrifices on one side of the business in order to profit (more) on another side. What I suspect based on what is available right now, is that the intent is to make ASL profitable, regardless of the impact on other business areas.
The absence of details in the "call for pressure" post makes me rather sceptic though. The more details that are made available to us, the easier it is to win the fanbase for AfreecaTV, and the easier it becomes to apply pressure towards Blizzard. Based on what I have been able to find on this situation so far, and in particular the lack of information in the post itself, or other sources, it is just as easy to say that AfreecaTV is making totally unrealistic requests towards Blizzard, and that they are solely to blame for the fact that ASL5 has such a hard time to get off the ground. The truth probably is somewhere in the middle.
So Blizzard releases an HD remake for all these people's favourite game, and then suddenly everyone thinks they aren't prepared to invest money in it? Something is off..
On January 19 2018 19:19 Zrana1 wrote: So Blizzard releases an HD remake for all these people's favourite game, and then suddenly everyone thinks they aren't prepared to invest money in it? Something is off..
Blizzard is off. And by a nautical mile if not more.
Well guess it's time to get banned on the official forums.
I really don't understand how your "love letter to the community" includes refusing 2x ATBs and now even an ASL. And that is just the stuff we know for sure. Another SSL classic + a new OSL might have also been canceled due to blizzard. Did you guys release remastered to let brood war die?
Why is he constantly referring to Blizzard as "the relevant game company"? Certainly not for any kind of discretion as there can be no possible doubt as to who is implicated. Sounds more like some weird passive-aggressive stance. And what exactly are Blizzard doing to prevent those tourneys? Is it just about too high licensing fees or are refusing licensing altogether? As long as there is no open communication about the actual issue, it is hard to see where the problem even is…
On January 19 2018 15:15 FlaShFTW wrote: First off, to those people who are currently telling us to move on, remember where you are. This place, teamliquid, was built off of Starcraft since 2006. Do not tell us to move on. If you don't like that we're die hard fans, then leave.
Second, is there some kind of petition we can sign or mass tweet @Blizzard that we could do? So far I only see complaining, but I want a plan to actually get rolled out so we can try to push the issue into the spotlight so Blizzard can try to see some reason.
Since 2006? Uhh... You might want to check that again bud TL's been around way freakin' longer than that.
So basically this guy is trying to twist the arms of a "relevant company" by manipulating the fan base, that is not really friendly towards that "relevant company" in the first place, with vague and unclear message. Good for him, I wonder how will this play out.
I any case asking the fans to pressure someone for something is not the smartest thing to do... It reminds me of the "mail the sponsors" attitude in some other communities.
On January 19 2018 15:15 FlaShFTW wrote: First off, to those people who are currently telling us to move on, remember where you are. This place, teamliquid, was built off of Starcraft since 2006. Do not tell us to move on. If you don't like that we're die hard fans, then leave.
Second, is there some kind of petition we can sign or mass tweet @Blizzard that we could do? So far I only see complaining, but I want a plan to actually get rolled out so we can try to push the issue into the spotlight so Blizzard can try to see some reason.
Since 2006? Uhh... You might want to check that again bud TL's been around way freakin' longer than that.
So you're saying you registered on TL before it was created in 2006???
On January 19 2018 15:15 FlaShFTW wrote: First off, to those people who are currently telling us to move on, remember where you are. This place, teamliquid, was built off of Starcraft since 2006. Do not tell us to move on. If you don't like that we're die hard fans, then leave.
Second, is there some kind of petition we can sign or mass tweet @Blizzard that we could do? So far I only see complaining, but I want a plan to actually get rolled out so we can try to push the issue into the spotlight so Blizzard can try to see some reason.
I remember joining TeamLiquid.cjb.net in around 2001 or 2002.
On January 19 2018 17:16 DSK wrote: Happy to sign a petition or make a tweet, point the way. Is it a hail mary idea to ask Jim Sterling to look into this and make a vid?.
OpenBW can't come soon enough!.
I'm confused what exactly is OpenBW supposed to change?
What a surprise.... Blizzard is just no longer the company it used to be... If there is any kind of petition started, I would be more than willing to sign
On January 19 2018 17:16 DSK wrote: Happy to sign a petition or make a tweet, point the way. Is it a hail mary idea to ask Jim Sterling to look into this and make a vid?.
OpenBW can't come soon enough!.
I'm confused what exactly is OpenBW supposed to change?
Regarding this specific topic? Nothing at all.
Regarding brood war itself, at least you won't be stuck with a sub par remaster.
wow. there goes half the morale of the SC:R dev team. what a great way to start the new year. trying to kill the SC:R baby just born a couple months ago.
On January 20 2018 00:45 Golgotha wrote: wow. there goes half the morale of the SC:R dev team. what a great way to start the new year. trying to kill the SC:R baby just born a couple months ago.
Right, and it doesn't make sense at all. I just can't understand this behavior of Blizzard.
Here's a serious question though. When does the Blizzard fee actually start? I mean, we all know that there are small tournaments on a daily basis. Also there is stuff like BWCL and other clanleagues. What size does a tournament need to be to start paying the retarded Blizzard fees?
On January 19 2018 14:55 GGzerG wrote: Damn.... I was so hype for Remastered, honestly now I wish iCCup was back... Really.
As I said, don't blame the devs. Remastered isn't the problem it's the executives.
Also iCCUP didn't care about BW either. All their systems were built around DOTA and they didn't want to change any of it, hence why there was only a specific small map pool.
You have no idea what you are talking about,sorry. Iccup did a lot for Broodwar. Eight years we provided a free server for everybody to play on. We ran tours, casts and everything that comes along with it in our freetime, because we are fans.
The Iccup ownership ran the server for years, getting no financial benefit in return. Yes support for the BW server was reduced because the DOTA Server is more lucrative.
Still we held Iccup Nation League 1 & 2, 2nd ended just about 2years ago. And the mappool is big btw.
So if you think Iccup could've been better in the past sure. But saying “iccup didn't care“ is like saying tl.net did't care. Both sites shifted their main focus to other games.
We were a mainstay for foreign BW fans before SC:R tried to shove us out. And still Ant keeps the server running as we speak.
Just shows the massive corporate disconnect going on at modern Blizzard. This is a 20 year old game with a tiny community and Blizzard still insists on imposing a 90k fee on the last surviving pro tournament?.....and said tournament ISN"T EVEN MAKING A PROFIT.
In 2014, Activision Blizzard was the fifth largest gaming company by revenue worldwide, with total assets of US $14.746 billion and total equity estimated at US $7.513 billion.
This company is raking in billions on their casual cashcows....can they chill the fuck out and lower the fee or whatever the hell is holding up this tournament...PLEASE
The OP is seriously lacking context. Theres actualy nothing damning in OP, just one guy sad about another comapny not helping them. For anyone without knowledge of details of the situation this all look as pointless bashing. In my opinion OP should be expanded right now this thread looks very weird.
On January 19 2018 17:16 DSK wrote: Happy to sign a petition or make a tweet, point the way. Is it a hail mary idea to ask Jim Sterling to look into this and make a vid?.
OpenBW can't come soon enough!.
I'm confused what exactly is OpenBW supposed to change?
OpenBW and ShieldBattery are grassroots projects which would have helped the BW scene maintain autonomy so that Blizzard couldn't pull shit like this. Blizzard even gave permission to ShieldBattery (or at least there were talks, if I recall correctly) and then rushed out the buggy product that was PTR and RM, effectively preempting both projects and reclaiming control of the Korean scene which was growing organically. It's hard to say how much of this was intentional but the effects are as you see here.
***CALL TO ARMS*** https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20760966718 post i made to OPPRESS blizzard we need an army to make a difference. EVERY VOICE MATTERS. Please go post just tell them how you feel and like comments spread the word. the time is now we are the resistance. ***CALL TO ARMS***
Why doesn't Blizzard just work with Afreeca better to host tournaments? Why not at least cut the licensing fee in half? If blizzard truly cared for Brood War and it's fans they would listen to us that a lot of us love Afreeca and the ASL's seeing as they are the biggest tournaments in the world right now of the best South Korean players. Afreeca if blizzard doesn't come to any reasonable deals just please don't surrender the ASL!!! First it was the OGN starleagues in 2012 with Blizzard saying BW needed to be let go and everyone move on to SC2. They killed bw's official biggest tournament/starleagues in the world to promote the sequel. Us fans still love bw and want to see the worlds best players compete because it's very entertaining to us. We love the ASL, Blizzard don't ruin possibly our last hope of professional bw starleagues. You already did this in the past please don't make the same mistake again to us fans who do truly love bw and enjoy watching the best pros battle it out!
I'd also like to encourage people to post on the Blizzard forums. We will see if Blizzard actually listens to fans like they claim to do so. Also, making a petition is not a bad idea.
I don't think OpenBW and Shield Battery are gonna ever be finished. They are chimeras. Meaning they are hyped up but won't ever be finished. Broodwar has had a lot of chimeras over the years of things to great to be true.
On January 19 2018 17:16 DSK wrote: Happy to sign a petition or make a tweet, point the way. Is it a hail mary idea to ask Jim Sterling to look into this and make a vid?.
OpenBW can't come soon enough!.
I'm confused what exactly is OpenBW supposed to change?
FAQ Here is a list of… well… not frequently asked questions, because we don’t have any yet. Rather it is a list of questions we anticipate people would like to know the answer to. So without further ado:
Q: Is this legal?
A: Good question! Let us elaborate a bit: We are thankful to Blizzard for creating such an amazing game as the original StarCraft Brood War. We also perfectly understand the entrepreneurial risk involved and agree that investors are entitled to a return as a reward for taking financial risks. We therefore condemn piracy and copyright infringement. We are careful not to violate any law and strongly encourage you to do the same. Please note for example, that game rules cannot be protected in the United States, where the original Brood Wars was developed. Furthermore, the entire code base of the core engine is written by us. It does not contain any proprietary code. Unfortunately artwork (graphics) and sounds are protected. We respect this by a) developing our own graphics and b) requiring users of the original graphics to own a legal copy of Brood War. Such a copy can be obtained here: https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/starcraft
If it isn't a blizzard owned IP and by extension copyrighted, things like fees for hosting tourneys go out of the window. It's open source, and if all goes well means more tourneys.
Touch wood.
That is my understanding. Hope this clarifies my point.
On January 20 2018 02:51 Alpha-NP- wrote: I'd also like to encourage people to post on the Blizzard forums. We will see if Blizzard actually listens to fans like they claim to do so. Also, making a petition is not a bad idea.
I don't think OpenBW and Shield Battery are gonna ever be finished. They are chimeras. Meaning they are hyped up but won't ever be finished. Broodwar has had a lot of chimeras over the years of things to great to be true.
I imagine the release of Remastered hurt them both as I said before, but I'm glad that no one values your uninformed and pessimistic opinion and that it has no bearing on the success of these projects.
On January 19 2018 17:16 DSK wrote: Happy to sign a petition or make a tweet, point the way. Is it a hail mary idea to ask Jim Sterling to look into this and make a vid?.
OpenBW can't come soon enough!.
I'm confused what exactly is OpenBW supposed to change?
OpenBW and ShieldBattery are grassroots projects which would have helped the BW scene maintain autonomy so that Blizzard couldn't pull shit like this. Blizzard even gave permission to ShieldBattery (or at least there were talks, if I recall correctly) and then rushed out the buggy product that was PTR and RM, effectively preempting both projects and reclaiming control of the Korean scene which was growing organically. It's hard to say how much of this was intentional but the effects are as you see here.
Both these projects are compelling, and it is a damn shame RM seems to have slowed/hurt their development even if I do think it would be much better to have BW consolidated on one platform, but my concern is with this corporate demon Blizzard side (I think the dev team is a pretty decent group of dudes).
If either of these projects were taken to completion and gained any traction, I just can't see Blizzard not stepping in and shutting them down with IP laws, given their prior and current behavior. Maybe I'm ignorant and these projects are "safe", but both seem pretty blatant copies of BW.
On January 19 2018 17:16 DSK wrote: Happy to sign a petition or make a tweet, point the way. Is it a hail mary idea to ask Jim Sterling to look into this and make a vid?.
OpenBW can't come soon enough!.
I'm confused what exactly is OpenBW supposed to change?
OpenBW and ShieldBattery are grassroots projects which would have helped the BW scene maintain autonomy so that Blizzard couldn't pull shit like this. Blizzard even gave permission to ShieldBattery (or at least there were talks, if I recall correctly) and then rushed out the buggy product that was PTR and RM, effectively preempting both projects and reclaiming control of the Korean scene which was growing organically. It's hard to say how much of this was intentional but the effects are as you see here.
Both these projects are compelling, and it is a damn shame RM seems to have slowed/hurt their development even if I do think it would be much better to have BW consolidated on one platform, but my concern is with this corporate demon Blizzard side (I think the dev team is a pretty decent group of dudes).
If either of these projects were taken to completion and gained any traction, I just can't see Blizzard not stepping in and shutting them down with IP laws, given their prior and current behavior. Maybe I'm ignorant and these projects are "safe", but both seem pretty blatant copies of BW.
Both require a copy of Brood War to operate and from what I understand were not intended to be sold or to generate profit, all of which to me points to the projects being difficult to justify shutting down entirely (refer to the FAQ answer for OpenBW above and my comment that ShieldBattery team was in contact with Blizzard).
On January 19 2018 13:44 Lazare1969 wrote: It would be better for Afreeca's sake to just abandon ASL and focus on game companies that actually wish to cooperate in e-sports, like PUBG Corporation has demonstrated. OGN already made this wise business decision years ago.
Maybe they actually care about bw and its fans. Unlike a certain relevant company.
Nice meme. Its still business. Just that Afreeca has invested too much into SCBW to back out now. They used to almost exclusively have BW streamers and capitalized on their monopoly. Now, BW is getting less popular in Korea, old progamers are starting to play PUBG, and many of them are simultaneously broadcasting to youtube and twitch, ultimately better optimized platforms. Afreeca tried to regulate the migration, but came under heavy fire and had to give up. They aren't getting back what they invested into BW, and they are too late to jump on the PUBG progaming train, so they have no choice but to pretend they care about their bw streamers more than twitch or youtube does. One of the ways include ASL, which is why they're keeping it up for now though it is inevitably in the red. None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are. Literally Soo-Gil says nothing of substance in his whole plea, just "hey, we're the good guys, if only Blizzard will give in, we can have this!" Vise versa holds true. In my opinion, with all the other greedy stunts he's pulled over the years, Afreeca are probably stubborn about something simple so they can protect their ego, and are resorting to mass rage since Blizzard won't take their shit.
On January 20 2018 02:49 JacktheTerr wrote: ***CALL TO ARMS*** https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20760966718 post i made to OPPRESS blizzard we need an army to make a difference. EVERY VOICE MATTERS. Please go post just tell them how you feel and like comments spread the word. the time is now we are the resistance. ***CALL TO ARMS***
Yah, I tweeted to Blizz and made a post in the topic on the starcraft blizz.net forums. I mean, we're a small crowd, but if everyone can do the same, it would be a lot better than being upset or frustrated in this topic. If you're passionate about StarCraft like I am, turn that frustration into action imo.. and as people have said, we don't really know the full situation, so instead of throwing insults or fire, instead just let Blizz know the positive experiences the pro BW scene has on you etc
I don't actually know if it will do anything, but there is really no reason not to hit up twitter/facebook/blizz forums and just say something along the lines of that. Something that evokes feelings in you personally. At worst, nothing happens, but you leave a positive message that steps on no feet, and best, maybe it will inspire Blizzard and Afreeca to work something out.
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are.
So let's judge them by their actions then. Afreeca has given us four high quality bw tournaments and many hours of the top pros streaming. They deserve thanks and hopefully financial success for that. Blizzard on the other hand has done what exactly for pro bw?
Cool, but who cares? Warcraft 3 can easily hold on any kind of matches, but why can't you ? Are you the unique in this world that ought to be treated differently?
On January 20 2018 04:44 SCC-Faust wrote: Yah, I tweeted to Blizz and made a post in the topic on the starcraft blizz.net forums. I mean, we're a small crowd, but if everyone can do the same, it would be a lot better than being upset or frustrated in this topic. If you're passionate about StarCraft like I am, turn that frustration into action imo.. and as people have said, we don't really know the full situation, so instead of throwing insults or fire, instead just let Blizz know the positive experiences the pro BW scene has on you etc
I don't actually know if it will do anything, but there is really no reason not to hit up twitter/facebook/blizz forums and just say something along the lines of that. Something that evokes feelings in you personally. At worst, nothing happens, but you leave a positive message that steps on no feet, and best, maybe it will inspire Blizzard and Afreeca to work something out.
ASL4 was the only tournament I ever began to follow as it was played. It was extremely epic. We are launching a social media war to tell Blizzard on forums and their twitter to allow ASL5.
On January 19 2018 13:44 Lazare1969 wrote: It would be better for Afreeca's sake to just abandon ASL and focus on game companies that actually wish to cooperate in e-sports, like PUBG Corporation has demonstrated. OGN already made this wise business decision years ago.
Maybe they actually care about bw and its fans. Unlike a certain relevant company.
Nice meme. Its still business. Just that Afreeca has invested too much into SCBW to back out now. They used to almost exclusively have BW streamers and capitalized on their monopoly. Now, BW is getting less popular in Korea, old progamers are starting to play PUBG, and many of them are simultaneously broadcasting to youtube and twitch, ultimately better optimized platforms. Afreeca tried to regulate the migration, but came under heavy fire and had to give up. They aren't getting back what they invested into BW, and they are too late to jump on the PUBG progaming train, so they have no choice but to pretend they care about their bw streamers more than twitch or youtube does. One of the ways include ASL, which is why they're keeping it up for now though it is inevitably in the red. None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are. Literally Soo-Gil says nothing of substance in his whole plea, just "hey, we're the good guys, if only Blizzard will give in, we can have this!" Vise versa holds true. In my opinion, with all the other greedy stunts he's pulled over the years, Afreeca are probably stubborn about something simple so they can protect their ego, and are resorting to mass rage since Blizzard won't take their shit.
I'm quoting this because it seems like one of the more levelheaded non-emotional responses in the thread. These are big companies, it's unlikely morality is a point of discussion aside from technical legality and "do we think this will piss people off to a degree that we're going to lose money over it?"
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are.
So let's judge them by their actions then. Afreeca has given us four high quality bw tournaments and many hours of the top pros streaming. They deserve thanks and hopefully financial success for that. Blizzard on the other hand has done what exactly for pro bw?
Uhm, not sure how to word it. The release of the game?
I know what and how you mean it but this shitting on Blizzard is way too much for me. All we have si a vague statement of 1 side and silence on the other side. How do you know you're standing on the good side?
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: Nice meme. Its still business. Just that Afreeca has invested too much into SCBW to back out now. They used to almost exclusively have BW streamers and capitalized on their monopoly. Now, BW is getting less popular in Korea, old progamers are starting to play PUBG, and many of them are simultaneously broadcasting to youtube and twitch, ultimately better optimized platforms. Afreeca tried to regulate the migration, but came under heavy fire and had to give up. They aren't getting back what they invested into BW, and they are too late to jump on the PUBG progaming train, so they have no choice but to pretend they care about their bw streamers more than twitch or youtube does. One of the ways include ASL, which is why they're keeping it up for now though it is inevitably in the red. None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are. Literally Soo-Gil says nothing of substance in his whole plea, just "hey, we're the good guys, if only Blizzard will give in, we can have this!" Vise versa holds true. In my opinion, with all the other greedy stunts he's pulled over the years, Afreeca are probably stubborn about something simple so they can protect their ego, and are resorting to mass rage since Blizzard won't take their shit.
I'm quoting this because it seems like one of the more levelheaded non-emotional responses in the thread. These are big companies, it's unlikely morality is a point of discussion aside from technical legality and "do we think this will piss people off to a degree that we're going to lose money over it?"
I don't completely understand how this is one of the more levelheaded responses when it is far more leaps than most people in this thread are making on top of just being on the other side of the coin in the blame game.
People are just wondering exactly how Blizzard can say they want to see more tournaments come up and flourish with the release of Remastered, and then charge such an incredible licensing fee that the most suitable company to do so isn't even able to. I think that is a legitimate concern and question that people have a right to ask, and is not inflammatory in any way or taking anything out of context. It also seems a lot less gratuitous than claiming the Afreeca CEO is on a burning ship and solely wants cheaper rights to keep his platform afloat. Oh, how malicious. How evil. Please charge them up the ass, cause how dare Afreeca want to survive as a company. OK good posts dudes.
I'm not really sure if I see the business perspective of acting the way blizzard does here. Maybe it's because I'm not sure how the ASL actually works.
Does Blizzard spend money for ASL to exist? Does it cost them anything? Or is this an issue where Blizzard gets paid by Afreeca for "letting them use broodwar" and they wan't more money than ASL will give them?
Are they afraid that BW, from which they might not be able to make a lot of money from, will compete with their other games?
As I see it, BW is 20 years old and if Blizzard can't make a lot of money with it they should just let it go. Remember that bad PR is not good for business.
From a business perspective, letting BW free would give Blizzard positive PR with the downside of not being able to directly make money from a 20 year old game. Upside outweighs the downside for Blizzard in my opinion. PR is valuable.
On January 20 2018 04:44 SCC-Faust wrote: Yah, I tweeted to Blizz and made a post in the topic on the starcraft blizz.net forums. I mean, we're a small crowd, but if everyone can do the same, it would be a lot better than being upset or frustrated in this topic. If you're passionate about StarCraft like I am, turn that frustration into action imo.. and as people have said, we don't really know the full situation, so instead of throwing insults or fire, instead just let Blizz know the positive experiences the pro BW scene has on you etc
I don't actually know if it will do anything, but there is really no reason not to hit up twitter/facebook/blizz forums and just say something along the lines of that. Something that evokes feelings in you personally. At worst, nothing happens, but you leave a positive message that steps on no feet, and best, maybe it will inspire Blizzard and Afreeca to work something out.
Time to make a Twitter-account! If there was ever a reason to make, this would be it.
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are.
So let's judge them by their actions then. Afreeca has given us four high quality bw tournaments and many hours of the top pros streaming. They deserve thanks and hopefully financial success for that. Blizzard on the other hand has done what exactly for pro bw?
Uhm, not sure how to word it. The release of the game?
I know what and how you mean it but this shitting on Blizzard is way too much for me. All we have si a vague statement of 1 side and silence on the other side. How do you know you're standing on the good side?
Excuse me, I should refer to them as just Activision to avoid confusion. Blizzard is a dead company that once made masterpieces one after another. Definitely not shitting on them, they were arguably the greatest game maker of all time.
The real issue is that corporations in South Korea right now which don't have a perfectly clean record are trying to avoid having their history dug up and so have to be very quiet (to avoid the eye of prosecutors) in terms of investements in areas like luxury esport which, to be fair, have in the past been sources of graft and siphoning.
Similar areas include: High-end art Sports teams Musician sponsorships.
On January 20 2018 07:28 KR_4EVR wrote: The real issue is that corporations in South Korea right now which don't have a perfectly clean record are trying to avoid having their history dug up and so have to be very quiet (to avoid the eye of prosecutors) in terms of investements in areas like luxury esport which, to be fair, have in the past been sources of graft and siphoning.
Similar areas include: High-end art Sports teams Musician sponsorships.
On January 19 2018 15:15 FlaShFTW wrote: First off, to those people who are currently telling us to move on, remember where you are. This place, teamliquid, was built off of Starcraft since 2006. Do not tell us to move on. If you don't like that we're die hard fans, then leave.
Second, is there some kind of petition we can sign or mass tweet @Blizzard that we could do? So far I only see complaining, but I want a plan to actually get rolled out so we can try to push the issue into the spotlight so Blizzard can try to see some reason.
*2001, we've always been driven by SC
Oh I thought the site itself was built in 2006. I know the community was around earlier but I was just in reference to the website. Guess I'm stupid haha.
Also, I am tweeting at Blizzard and Starcraft every single day until we get back ASL5. Hope others can join me and we can make a big enough splash to get Blizzard to at least be a bit transparent about the process.
On January 20 2018 02:26 Silvanel wrote: The OP is seriously lacking context. Theres actualy nothing damning in OP, just one guy sad about another comapny not helping them. For anyone without knowledge of details of the situation this all look as pointless bashing. In my opinion OP should be expanded right now this thread looks very weird.
On January 20 2018 01:10 CoL_DarkstaR wrote: Here's a serious question though. When does the Blizzard fee actually start? I mean, we all know that there are small tournaments on a daily basis. Also there is stuff like BWCL and other clanleagues. What size does a tournament need to be to start paying the retarded Blizzard fees?
It seems to me that we are on shaky ground right now, so to speak. We have little, to no information from Blizzard's side of things. Which is expected, and honestly, I would never expect them to disclose this kind of information to the "general public". So we have been operating off of assumptions and rumors, basically. For now that is all we have.
Like I said in my previous post, I am not going to claim to understand why Blizzard would feel the need to charge any kind of fee. They are a massively profitable and hugely successful company on every level. Before the Korean Starleagues even, Starcraft was one of the first strategy games ever to be played professionally by people in the competitive arena. This game birthed E-sports as we know it, and the E-sports industry has been a pretty good source of revenue for Blizzard over the years. So why act so petty? There is a huge disconnect here.
I don't feel that the major issue is whether Blizzard or Afreeca is "right or wrong". We are crossing into the world of business here, and not everything is going to make sense to the uninitiated. The major issue then, for me at least (and I know I am echoing the concerns of others as well) is: even if we get the ASL 5 and everything runs smoothly. Are we going to have to go through this shit again for the ASL 6? This is corporate semantic bullshit, and it has no place in professional SC. Let me remind you that Blizzard never charged these kinds of exorbitant fees in the past when the Korean proleagues were still quite young. Somewhere along the line they changed their tune...
So at the end of the day, the most important thing to focus on now, is how are we going to get the ASL running without a hitch? I have ranted, others as well. We have all professed our feelings of betrayal. Some people have already taken action in the forms of emails or tweets, which is awesome. But what have we done as one entity? One fanbase. All crying out in unison: We love Broodwar, and we WILL see our champions fight in the arena. Right now that arena is ASL 5, and we have long been awaiting it.
If there is anything we can do to let Blizzard know how we feel, we should do it. It has to be organized and we have to be loud, or we will get ignored.
On January 20 2018 01:14 Sihrtogg wrote: Would starting a petition be the best course of action now? Will the numbers we realistically can expect to get make a favourable impact on Blizzard?
I don't feel that emails or tweets are going to grab their attention unless it is some kind of direct dialogue with an executive at Blizzard. Empty threats or lashing out pointlessly is also going to get us nowhere. We have to think of an intelligent and concise way to really reach someone at Blizzard who has the power to change this situation. Keep in mind that this person or group of people might have never played SC:BW, or give two fucks about our community.
Ideally, we could co-ordinate with the fanbase in South Korea somehow, and make our voice even louder. The ASL is taking place there. And that is really all I care about at this point. I just want the ASL. I don't want to "fuck Blizzard", I don't want to be angry, I just want to watch some Starcraft. This game is important to me.
So ladies and gentlemen I beseech you, what can we do? What are we are willing to do as one, unified group to get Afreeca and Blizzard to come to terms?
I feel maybe I put this post too fast, without having all the facts first.
I care too much about this subject, I hope that can be used as a valid excuse because it's the only one I have.
The general ideas are still correct but I don't have all the facts yet, and I am sorry if my rushed conclusions are wrong. I don't want Blizzard to be bullied into something they don't want to do using sentimental fans. One way or another actions speak louder than words and I will draw my conclusions from facts and react in consequence.
I am scared. I don't want Brood war to go completely from my life if that's possible.
I want to play with my future children. I want them to have replays playing with me after I'm gone and be able to look at those when they miss me. Big stakes for me, but that's my problem.
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: Nice meme. Its still business. Just that Afreeca has invested too much into SCBW to back out now. They used to almost exclusively have BW streamers and capitalized on their monopoly. Now, BW is getting less popular in Korea, old progamers are starting to play PUBG, and many of them are simultaneously broadcasting to youtube and twitch, ultimately better optimized platforms. Afreeca tried to regulate the migration, but came under heavy fire and had to give up. They aren't getting back what they invested into BW, and they are too late to jump on the PUBG progaming train, so they have no choice but to pretend they care about their bw streamers more than twitch or youtube does. One of the ways include ASL, which is why they're keeping it up for now though it is inevitably in the red. None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are. Literally Soo-Gil says nothing of substance in his whole plea, just "hey, we're the good guys, if only Blizzard will give in, we can have this!" Vise versa holds true. In my opinion, with all the other greedy stunts he's pulled over the years, Afreeca are probably stubborn about something simple so they can protect their ego, and are resorting to mass rage since Blizzard won't take their shit.
I'm quoting this because it seems like one of the more levelheaded non-emotional responses in the thread. These are big companies, it's unlikely morality is a point of discussion aside from technical legality and "do we think this will piss people off to a degree that we're going to lose money over it?"
I don't completely understand how this is one of the more levelheaded responses when it is far more leaps than most people in this thread are making on top of just being on the other side of the coin in the blame game.
People are just wondering exactly how Blizzard can say they want to see more tournaments come up and flourish with the release of Remastered, and then charge such an incredible licensing fee that the most suitable company to do so isn't even able to. I think that is a legitimate concern and question that people have a right to ask, and is not inflammatory in any way or taking anything out of context. It also seems a lot less gratuitous than claiming the Afreeca CEO is on a burning ship and solely wants cheaper rights to keep his platform afloat. Oh, how malicious. How evil. Please charge them up the ass, cause how dare Afreeca want to survive as a company. OK good posts dudes.
How did you learn what he wants ? I didn't learn anything from his statement. He can't afford ASL5 so what now ? Pressure Blizzard to do what ? Sponsor his company ? He doesn't say anything specific, just a vague statement that will turn people against his "partners". Using the fans in the negotiation process is just a cheap shot.
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: Nice meme. Its still business. Just that Afreeca has invested too much into SCBW to back out now. They used to almost exclusively have BW streamers and capitalized on their monopoly. Now, BW is getting less popular in Korea, old progamers are starting to play PUBG, and many of them are simultaneously broadcasting to youtube and twitch, ultimately better optimized platforms. Afreeca tried to regulate the migration, but came under heavy fire and had to give up. They aren't getting back what they invested into BW, and they are too late to jump on the PUBG progaming train, so they have no choice but to pretend they care about their bw streamers more than twitch or youtube does. One of the ways include ASL, which is why they're keeping it up for now though it is inevitably in the red. None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are. Literally Soo-Gil says nothing of substance in his whole plea, just "hey, we're the good guys, if only Blizzard will give in, we can have this!" Vise versa holds true. In my opinion, with all the other greedy stunts he's pulled over the years, Afreeca are probably stubborn about something simple so they can protect their ego, and are resorting to mass rage since Blizzard won't take their shit.
I'm quoting this because it seems like one of the more levelheaded non-emotional responses in the thread. These are big companies, it's unlikely morality is a point of discussion aside from technical legality and "do we think this will piss people off to a degree that we're going to lose money over it?"
I don't completely understand how this is one of the more levelheaded responses when it is far more leaps than most people in this thread are making on top of just being on the other side of the coin in the blame game.
People are just wondering exactly how Blizzard can say they want to see more tournaments come up and flourish with the release of Remastered, and then charge such an incredible licensing fee that the most suitable company to do so isn't even able to. I think that is a legitimate concern and question that people have a right to ask, and is not inflammatory in any way or taking anything out of context. It also seems a lot less gratuitous than claiming the Afreeca CEO is on a burning ship and solely wants cheaper rights to keep his platform afloat. Oh, how malicious. How evil. Please charge them up the ass, cause how dare Afreeca want to survive as a company. OK good posts dudes.
It's levelheaded in that it approaches these companies as money making machines that only make moral arguments when it suits their cause.
Nowhere in the quote does it say ASL5 can't start because Afreeca can't pay the (outrageous) licensing fee, that's conjecture. The only tangible information we get is that Afreeca is losing money on BW and that they hold Blizzard responsible in some way for not being able to proceed with ASL5.
If Afreeca can't pay the agreed fee then it's not in Blizzards interests to continue on. They've made their nostalgia-buck with Remastered and isn't expected to reach new audiences with the exposure. It could be that Afreeca is trying to renegotiate for a lesser fee or that they've requested funding. We can't really conclude it's just Blizzard being unreasonable.
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: Nice meme. Its still business. Just that Afreeca has invested too much into SCBW to back out now. They used to almost exclusively have BW streamers and capitalized on their monopoly. Now, BW is getting less popular in Korea, old progamers are starting to play PUBG, and many of them are simultaneously broadcasting to youtube and twitch, ultimately better optimized platforms. Afreeca tried to regulate the migration, but came under heavy fire and had to give up. They aren't getting back what they invested into BW, and they are too late to jump on the PUBG progaming train, so they have no choice but to pretend they care about their bw streamers more than twitch or youtube does. One of the ways include ASL, which is why they're keeping it up for now though it is inevitably in the red. None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are. Literally Soo-Gil says nothing of substance in his whole plea, just "hey, we're the good guys, if only Blizzard will give in, we can have this!" Vise versa holds true. In my opinion, with all the other greedy stunts he's pulled over the years, Afreeca are probably stubborn about something simple so they can protect their ego, and are resorting to mass rage since Blizzard won't take their shit.
I'm quoting this because it seems like one of the more levelheaded non-emotional responses in the thread. These are big companies, it's unlikely morality is a point of discussion aside from technical legality and "do we think this will piss people off to a degree that we're going to lose money over it?"
I don't completely understand how this is one of the more levelheaded responses when it is far more leaps than most people in this thread are making on top of just being on the other side of the coin in the blame game.
People are just wondering exactly how Blizzard can say they want to see more tournaments come up and flourish with the release of Remastered, and then charge such an incredible licensing fee that the most suitable company to do so isn't even able to. I think that is a legitimate concern and question that people have a right to ask, and is not inflammatory in any way or taking anything out of context. It also seems a lot less gratuitous than claiming the Afreeca CEO is on a burning ship and solely wants cheaper rights to keep his platform afloat. Oh, how malicious. How evil. Please charge them up the ass, cause how dare Afreeca want to survive as a company. OK good posts dudes.
How did you learn what he wants ? I didn't learn anything from his statement. He can't afford ASL5 so what now ? Pressure Blizzard to do what ? Sponsor his company ? He doesn't say anything specific, just a vague statement that will turn people against his "partners". Using the fans in the negotiation process is just a cheap shot.
Its not about Blizzard paying for ASL but letting Afreeca pay less to start ASL.
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: Nice meme. Its still business. Just that Afreeca has invested too much into SCBW to back out now. They used to almost exclusively have BW streamers and capitalized on their monopoly. Now, BW is getting less popular in Korea, old progamers are starting to play PUBG, and many of them are simultaneously broadcasting to youtube and twitch, ultimately better optimized platforms. Afreeca tried to regulate the migration, but came under heavy fire and had to give up. They aren't getting back what they invested into BW, and they are too late to jump on the PUBG progaming train, so they have no choice but to pretend they care about their bw streamers more than twitch or youtube does. One of the ways include ASL, which is why they're keeping it up for now though it is inevitably in the red. None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are. Literally Soo-Gil says nothing of substance in his whole plea, just "hey, we're the good guys, if only Blizzard will give in, we can have this!" Vise versa holds true. In my opinion, with all the other greedy stunts he's pulled over the years, Afreeca are probably stubborn about something simple so they can protect their ego, and are resorting to mass rage since Blizzard won't take their shit.
I'm quoting this because it seems like one of the more levelheaded non-emotional responses in the thread. These are big companies, it's unlikely morality is a point of discussion aside from technical legality and "do we think this will piss people off to a degree that we're going to lose money over it?"
I don't completely understand how this is one of the more levelheaded responses when it is far more leaps than most people in this thread are making on top of just being on the other side of the coin in the blame game.
People are just wondering exactly how Blizzard can say they want to see more tournaments come up and flourish with the release of Remastered, and then charge such an incredible licensing fee that the most suitable company to do so isn't even able to. I think that is a legitimate concern and question that people have a right to ask, and is not inflammatory in any way or taking anything out of context. It also seems a lot less gratuitous than claiming the Afreeca CEO is on a burning ship and solely wants cheaper rights to keep his platform afloat. Oh, how malicious. How evil. Please charge them up the ass, cause how dare Afreeca want to survive as a company. OK good posts dudes.
How did you learn what he wants ? I didn't learn anything from his statement. He can't afford ASL5 so what now ? Pressure Blizzard to do what ? Sponsor his company ? He doesn't say anything specific, just a vague statement that will turn people against his "partners". Using the fans in the negotiation process is just a cheap shot.
Its not about Blizzard paying for ASL but letting Afreeca pay less to start ASL.
First of all you dont know that. And second, giving them money and allowing them to run the tournament for less money is the exact same thing.
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: Nice meme. Its still business. Just that Afreeca has invested too much into SCBW to back out now. They used to almost exclusively have BW streamers and capitalized on their monopoly. Now, BW is getting less popular in Korea, old progamers are starting to play PUBG, and many of them are simultaneously broadcasting to youtube and twitch, ultimately better optimized platforms. Afreeca tried to regulate the migration, but came under heavy fire and had to give up. They aren't getting back what they invested into BW, and they are too late to jump on the PUBG progaming train, so they have no choice but to pretend they care about their bw streamers more than twitch or youtube does. One of the ways include ASL, which is why they're keeping it up for now though it is inevitably in the red. None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are. Literally Soo-Gil says nothing of substance in his whole plea, just "hey, we're the good guys, if only Blizzard will give in, we can have this!" Vise versa holds true. In my opinion, with all the other greedy stunts he's pulled over the years, Afreeca are probably stubborn about something simple so they can protect their ego, and are resorting to mass rage since Blizzard won't take their shit.
I'm quoting this because it seems like one of the more levelheaded non-emotional responses in the thread. These are big companies, it's unlikely morality is a point of discussion aside from technical legality and "do we think this will piss people off to a degree that we're going to lose money over it?"
I don't completely understand how this is one of the more levelheaded responses when it is far more leaps than most people in this thread are making on top of just being on the other side of the coin in the blame game.
People are just wondering exactly how Blizzard can say they want to see more tournaments come up and flourish with the release of Remastered, and then charge such an incredible licensing fee that the most suitable company to do so isn't even able to. I think that is a legitimate concern and question that people have a right to ask, and is not inflammatory in any way or taking anything out of context. It also seems a lot less gratuitous than claiming the Afreeca CEO is on a burning ship and solely wants cheaper rights to keep his platform afloat. Oh, how malicious. How evil. Please charge them up the ass, cause how dare Afreeca want to survive as a company. OK good posts dudes.
How did you learn what he wants ? I didn't learn anything from his statement. He can't afford ASL5 so what now ? Pressure Blizzard to do what ? Sponsor his company ? He doesn't say anything specific, just a vague statement that will turn people against his "partners". Using the fans in the negotiation process is just a cheap shot.
Its not about Blizzard paying for ASL but letting Afreeca pay less to start ASL.
First of all you dont know that. And second, giving them money and allowing them to run the tournament for less money is the exact same thing.
It's not the exact same thing. There is actually a very big difference you're overlooking.
If Afreeca doesn't host another tournament, then Blizzard doesn't make any money. If Blizzard cuts the price (lets say its 80k) in half and Afreeca agrees to host another tournament by your logic they just gave away 40k, but in reality they just earned 40k.
It's levelheaded in that it approaches these companies as money making machines that only make moral arguments when it suits their cause.
Nowhere in the quote does it say ASL5 can't start because Afreeca can't pay the (outrageous) licensing fee, that's conjecture. The only tangible information we get is that Afreeca is losing money on BW and that they hold Blizzard responsible in some way for not being able to proceed with ASL5.
If Afreeca can't pay the agreed fee then it's not in Blizzards interests to continue on. They've made their nostalgia-buck with Remastered and isn't expected to reach new audiences with the exposure. It could be that Afreeca is trying to renegotiate for a lesser fee or that they've requested funding. We can't really conclude it's just Blizzard being unreasonable.
Okay so you assume that the absurd licensing fee being a reason that ASL 5 hasn't started is conjecture, yet you praise a post with 0 proof that Afreeca is pulling some publicity stunt to pressure Blizzard in part due to being a "money making machine that only makes moral arguments when it suits their cause." The statement by the CEO of Afreeca literally says "It's true, in terms of just business, ASL is in the red, and our world first APL is also deeply in the red." and we have information that the license to host a tournament at this scale may have costed a steep amount in the past. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/525290-information-from-korea?page=33#651
Yeah, along with the information provided and then looking at Blizzard's history with the actions they made in their other games when it came to the progaming scenes (Look at what they did with the Overwatch scene) you can easily make a strong assumption that Blizzard is being difficult in some way, shape, or form even if you don't want to believe that the Afreeca CEO is being 100% truthful. To be honest, I don't even understand your point. I don't know if you're posts are just pure white noise that are trying to iterate a really pointless side of "Afreeca probably has a vested interested in Brood War doing well for their company" which every single person knew before even clicking this thread, or you're on some wack conspiracy where this is corporate intimidation, which is even more outlandish than what 98% of people in this thread are suggesting.
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: Nice meme. Its still business. Just that Afreeca has invested too much into SCBW to back out now. They used to almost exclusively have BW streamers and capitalized on their monopoly. Now, BW is getting less popular in Korea, old progamers are starting to play PUBG, and many of them are simultaneously broadcasting to youtube and twitch, ultimately better optimized platforms. Afreeca tried to regulate the migration, but came under heavy fire and had to give up. They aren't getting back what they invested into BW, and they are too late to jump on the PUBG progaming train, so they have no choice but to pretend they care about their bw streamers more than twitch or youtube does. One of the ways include ASL, which is why they're keeping it up for now though it is inevitably in the red. None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are. Literally Soo-Gil says nothing of substance in his whole plea, just "hey, we're the good guys, if only Blizzard will give in, we can have this!" Vise versa holds true. In my opinion, with all the other greedy stunts he's pulled over the years, Afreeca are probably stubborn about something simple so they can protect their ego, and are resorting to mass rage since Blizzard won't take their shit.
I'm quoting this because it seems like one of the more levelheaded non-emotional responses in the thread. These are big companies, it's unlikely morality is a point of discussion aside from technical legality and "do we think this will piss people off to a degree that we're going to lose money over it?"
I don't completely understand how this is one of the more levelheaded responses when it is far more leaps than most people in this thread are making on top of just being on the other side of the coin in the blame game.
People are just wondering exactly how Blizzard can say they want to see more tournaments come up and flourish with the release of Remastered, and then charge such an incredible licensing fee that the most suitable company to do so isn't even able to. I think that is a legitimate concern and question that people have a right to ask, and is not inflammatory in any way or taking anything out of context. It also seems a lot less gratuitous than claiming the Afreeca CEO is on a burning ship and solely wants cheaper rights to keep his platform afloat. Oh, how malicious. How evil. Please charge them up the ass, cause how dare Afreeca want to survive as a company. OK good posts dudes.
How did you learn what he wants ? I didn't learn anything from his statement. He can't afford ASL5 so what now ? Pressure Blizzard to do what ? Sponsor his company ? He doesn't say anything specific, just a vague statement that will turn people against his "partners". Using the fans in the negotiation process is just a cheap shot.
Its not about Blizzard paying for ASL but letting Afreeca pay less to start ASL.
First of all you dont know that. And second, giving them money and allowing them to run the tournament for less money is the exact same thing.
It's not the exact same thing. There is actually a very big difference you're overlooking.
If Afreeca doesn't host another tournament, then Blizzard doesn't make any money. If Blizzard cuts the price (lets say its 80k) in half and Afreeca agrees to host another tournament by your logic they just gave away 40k, but in reality they just earned 40k.
Or Blizzard just makes a deal with another company that is willing to pay 80k. Without any information you can speculate as much as you want... That doesn't make Afreeca CEO's actions more acceptable.
Even if they had a deal with another company, ASL 5 not taking place would still result in 40k less income. So yeah, they are giving away 40k no matter what.
On January 20 2018 10:17 ortseam wrote: Even if they had a deal with another company, ASL 5 not taking place would still result in 40k less income. So yeah, they are giving away 40k no matter what.
No they are not, because nothing of what you are saying is actually happening. In the real world, you have a guy that is making an appeal towards a group of people to "pressure" another company to give him a better deal(in some unknown way).
On January 19 2018 17:16 DSK wrote: Happy to sign a petition or make a tweet, point the way. Is it a hail mary idea to ask Jim Sterling to look into this and make a vid?.
OpenBW can't come soon enough!.
I'm confused what exactly is OpenBW supposed to change?
FAQ Here is a list of… well… not frequently asked questions, because we don’t have any yet. Rather it is a list of questions we anticipate people would like to know the answer to. So without further ado:
Q: Is this legal?
A: Good question! Let us elaborate a bit: We are thankful to Blizzard for creating such an amazing game as the original StarCraft Brood War. We also perfectly understand the entrepreneurial risk involved and agree that investors are entitled to a return as a reward for taking financial risks. We therefore condemn piracy and copyright infringement. We are careful not to violate any law and strongly encourage you to do the same. Please note for example, that game rules cannot be protected in the United States, where the original Brood Wars was developed. Furthermore, the entire code base of the core engine is written by us. It does not contain any proprietary code. Unfortunately artwork (graphics) and sounds are protected. We respect this by a) developing our own graphics and b) requiring users of the original graphics to own a legal copy of Brood War. Such a copy can be obtained here: https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/starcraft
If it isn't a blizzard owned IP and by extension copyrighted, things like fees for hosting tourneys go out of the window. It's open source, and if all goes well means more tourneys.
Touch wood.
That is my understanding. Hope this clarifies my point.
openBW is just a modern engine recreation. You still need to obtain (legally) a copy of brood war if you wish to play it. Tournaments would still run Brood War. Therefore, you'd still need to shell out cash to blizzard to run a major tournament as you're always using their IP.
On January 20 2018 10:17 ortseam wrote: Even if they had a deal with another company, ASL 5 not taking place would still result in 40k less income. So yeah, they are giving away 40k no matter what.
No they are not, because nothing of what you are saying is actually happening. In the real world, you have a guy that is making an appeal towards a group of people to "pressure" another company to give him a better deal(in some unknown way).
Saddening. Kinda wished 'the certain game company' never let corporation's greedy hands to meddle so much with it. I wish it remained a small company, like the pre-wow era.
BW is one of if not -the- greatest games of all time. Blizzard makes boatloads of cash off their other, newer titles.
Why in the world would they mind sinking some chips into their legendary game that got them on the map? I mean, they're not doing shit for WC3 or Diablo, so why not choose one classic game to keep going forever? It's a hallmark game. It's like Zelda: Ocarina of Time or Super Mario. Just something that can't die.
The company can afford things like this. And that's the worst case scenario. I'm sure additional avenues could be found to make ASL more profitable. This is just inexcusable.
On January 20 2018 11:36 RogerChillingworth wrote: BW is one of if not -the- greatest games of all time. Blizzard makes boatloads of cash off their other, newer titles.
Why in the world would they mind sinking some chips into their legendary game that got them on the map? I mean, they're not doing shit for WC3 or Diablo, so why not choose one classic game to keep going forever? It's a hallmark game. It's like Zelda: Ocarina of Time or Super Mario. Just something that can't die.
The company can afford things like this. And that's the worst case scenario. I'm sure additional avenues could be found to make ASL more profitable. This is just inexcusable.
I think blizzard assumes the only way we could like the tragedy that is starcraft 2 and not demand a warcraft 4 is if they completely kill the only good 1v1 game they've ever made, broodwar
WC3 was a good game, but not for 1v1, the meta is fairly stale and it was never balanced, still head and shoulders above their most recent mess though.
What was the situation with Blizzard and tournaments during the years before 2017?
Was there always a fee to host a tournament?
What were the properties of a tournament that would require you to ask Blizzard for permission and pay a fee? I assume if you wanted to host a tour for your three friends and your grandmother, they would let you pass.
What would happen if you hosted a big tournament and did not pay?
i think basically you could just host a tourney and whatever <= clearly the best situation well if it doesn't involve money anybody can host whatever tourney ofc..... if it does... i dont even know whatever laws there might be about that and that differ in many variations depending on country @@ in the case of blizzard with SC:R / ASL I think blizzard should give money rather than take, really or just leave it alone or run ASL with 1.16 ?_? (non commercialized version?)
what does the law actually say in korea about this? and american law? i wonder
the goal of the company could very well be and have been to maintain focus in a forced way on the current games out of which they make more money or advertise more easily or whatever
I think blizzard should give money rather than take, really
I can't confirm where I heard this information, but from what I understand Blizzard put a considerable amount towards both of those Twitch events. I asked people about whether or not they could talk about smaller tournaments to drive traffic to the foreign community smaller events, but they wasn't allowed due to Blizzard ruling.
1 ) Find loopholes in the law. Organize tournaments without any official prize money, and instead do a meaningless fake competition (a 100m dash, who knows...) straight after the actual tournament, and coincidentally have everyone finish in the respective places they had in the starcraft tournament.
On January 20 2018 22:11 B-royal wrote: Maybe it's time to get down and dirty.
1 ) Find loopholes in the law. Organize tournaments without any official prize money, and instead do a meaningless fake competition (a 100m dash, who knows...) straight after the actual tournament, and coincidentally have everyone finish in the respective places they had in the starcraft tournament.
On January 20 2018 11:36 RogerChillingworth wrote: BW is one of if not -the- greatest games of all time. Blizzard makes boatloads of cash off their other, newer titles.
Why in the world would they mind sinking some chips into their legendary game that got them on the map? I mean, they're not doing shit for WC3 or Diablo, so why not choose one classic game to keep going forever? It's a hallmark game. It's like Zelda: Ocarina of Time or Super Mario. Just something that can't die.
The company can afford things like this. And that's the worst case scenario. I'm sure additional avenues could be found to make ASL more profitable. This is just inexcusable.
It's levelheaded in that it approaches these companies as money making machines that only make moral arguments when it suits their cause.
Nowhere in the quote does it say ASL5 can't start because Afreeca can't pay the (outrageous) licensing fee, that's conjecture. The only tangible information we get is that Afreeca is losing money on BW and that they hold Blizzard responsible in some way for not being able to proceed with ASL5.
If Afreeca can't pay the agreed fee then it's not in Blizzards interests to continue on. They've made their nostalgia-buck with Remastered and isn't expected to reach new audiences with the exposure. It could be that Afreeca is trying to renegotiate for a lesser fee or that they've requested funding. We can't really conclude it's just Blizzard being unreasonable.
Okay so you assume that the absurd licensing fee being a reason that ASL 5 hasn't started is conjecture, yet you praise a post with 0 proof that Afreeca is pulling some publicity stunt to pressure Blizzard in part due to being a "money making machine that only makes moral arguments when it suits their cause." The statement by the CEO of Afreeca literally says "It's true, in terms of just business, ASL is in the red, and our world first APL is also deeply in the red." and we have information that the license to host a tournament at this scale may have costed a steep amount in the past. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/525290-information-from-korea?page=33#651
Yeah, along with the information provided and then looking at Blizzard's history with the actions they made in their other games when it came to the progaming scenes (Look at what they did with the Overwatch scene) you can easily make a strong assumption that Blizzard is being difficult in some way, shape, or form even if you don't want to believe that the Afreeca CEO is being 100% truthful. To be honest, I don't even understand your point. I don't know if you're posts are just pure white noise that are trying to iterate a really pointless side of "Afreeca probably has a vested interested in Brood War doing well for their company" which every single person knew before even clicking this thread, or you're on some wack conspiracy where this is corporate intimidation, which is even more outlandish than what 98% of people in this thread are suggesting.
A strong assumption is still an assumption. People in this thread are very easily emotionally manipulated into finding fault with Blizzard when we don't have any tangible information to go off. I'd take the Afreeca CEO's words with a Style Start Sbenu.
The lack of critical thought in this thread is appalling.
KeSPA most definitely had the same old disgusting corporate business practices as blizzard does now; I wouldn't put it past afreeca either.
You guys really think afreeca's some no-profit revive BW charity like they're presentint themselves to be in this statement. Give me a break probably just as bad as kespa.
I thought the word on the street was that blizzard couldn't throw money at BW because of their past agreements with KeSPA, making it so KeSPA had all the rights to hosting BW leagues (i.e. even if blizzard wanted to include BW in their wcs circuit they can't). Obviously there must be some overlap between execs at Afreeca and KeSPA or you know whatever rich south korean execs that made all the money off of eSports. We all know KeSPA were far from saints yet we're letting Afreeca get away with this one sided shit lmao.
Yeah Blizzard's obviously awful, but you can't just look at this PR press release and just mindlessly play into it lmao.
On January 21 2018 01:01 .gypsy wrote: The lack of critical thought in this thread is appalling.
KeSPA most definitely had the same old disgusting corporate business practices as blizzard does now; I wouldn't put it past afreeca either.
You guys really think afreeca's some no-profit revive BW charity like they're presentint themselves to be in this statement. Give me a break probably just as bad as kespa.
I thought the word on the street was that blizzard couldn't throw money at BW because of their past agreements with KeSPA, making it so KeSPA had all the rights to hosting BW leagues (i.e. even if blizzard wanted to include BW in their wcs circuit they can't). Obviously there must be some overlap between execs at Afreeca and KeSPA or you know whatever rich south korean execs that made all the money off of eSports. We all know KeSPA were far from saints yet we're letting Afreeca get away with this one sided shit lmao.
Yeah Blizzard's obviously awful, but you can't just look at this PR press release and just mindlessly play into it lmao.
Get your heads out of your asses.
Ah yes, so it is because of Kespa that Blizzard can't throw money at BW, so they demand 100k in fees from Afreeca because reasons?
On January 21 2018 01:01 .gypsy wrote: The lack of critical thought in this thread is appalling.
KeSPA most definitely had the same old disgusting corporate business practices as blizzard does now; I wouldn't put it past afreeca either.
You guys really think afreeca's some no-profit revive BW charity like they're presentint themselves to be in this statement. Give me a break probably just as bad as kespa.
I thought the word on the street was that blizzard couldn't throw money at BW because of their past agreements with KeSPA, making it so KeSPA had all the rights to hosting BW leagues (i.e. even if blizzard wanted to include BW in their wcs circuit they can't). Obviously there must be some overlap between execs at Afreeca and KeSPA or you know whatever rich south korean execs that made all the money off of eSports. We all know KeSPA were far from saints yet we're letting Afreeca get away with this one sided shit lmao.
Yeah Blizzard's obviously awful, but you can't just look at this PR press release and just mindlessly play into it lmao.
Get your heads out of your asses.
Ah yes, so it is because of Kespa that Blizzard can't throw money at BW, so they demand 100k in fees from Afreeca because reasons?
holy fuck
I love that you take everything at face value as long as it suits your bias/narrative. The truth is we have no idea what is actually going on and the people working for afreeca are no saints either.
On January 21 2018 01:01 .gypsy wrote: The lack of critical thought in this thread is appalling.
KeSPA most definitely had the same old disgusting corporate business practices as blizzard does now; I wouldn't put it past afreeca either.
You guys really think afreeca's some no-profit revive BW charity like they're presentint themselves to be in this statement. Give me a break probably just as bad as kespa.
I thought the word on the street was that blizzard couldn't throw money at BW because of their past agreements with KeSPA, making it so KeSPA had all the rights to hosting BW leagues (i.e. even if blizzard wanted to include BW in their wcs circuit they can't). Obviously there must be some overlap between execs at Afreeca and KeSPA or you know whatever rich south korean execs that made all the money off of eSports. We all know KeSPA were far from saints yet we're letting Afreeca get away with this one sided shit lmao.
Yeah Blizzard's obviously awful, but you can't just look at this PR press release and just mindlessly play into it lmao.
Get your heads out of your asses.
Ah yes, so it is because of Kespa that Blizzard can't throw money at BW, so they demand 100k in fees from Afreeca because reasons?
holy fuck
I love that you take everything at face value as long as it suits your bias/narrative. The truth is we have no idea what is actually going on and the people working for afreeca are no saints either.
You're basing YOUR stance on what, exactly? Contrarianism?
Sure, we don't have all the details. A lot of bw fans are still angry after how the transition to Starcraft 2 was handled, but also how remastered was released, filled with bugs and slow updates. It's not far fetched to assume that blizz currently isn't the company promoting bw as an e-sports in the best way.
Either way, whoever's at fault here, it's ridiculous that a 20 year old game that people want to play can't be played properly due to big corporations sucking the life out of it.
On January 21 2018 01:01 .gypsy wrote: The lack of critical thought in this thread is appalling.
KeSPA most definitely had the same old disgusting corporate business practices as blizzard does now; I wouldn't put it past afreeca either.
You guys really think afreeca's some no-profit revive BW charity like they're presentint themselves to be in this statement. Give me a break probably just as bad as kespa.
I thought the word on the street was that blizzard couldn't throw money at BW because of their past agreements with KeSPA, making it so KeSPA had all the rights to hosting BW leagues (i.e. even if blizzard wanted to include BW in their wcs circuit they can't). Obviously there must be some overlap between execs at Afreeca and KeSPA or you know whatever rich south korean execs that made all the money off of eSports. We all know KeSPA were far from saints yet we're letting Afreeca get away with this one sided shit lmao.
Yeah Blizzard's obviously awful, but you can't just look at this PR press release and just mindlessly play into it lmao.
Get your heads out of your asses.
Ah yes, so it is because of Kespa that Blizzard can't throw money at BW, so they demand 100k in fees from Afreeca because reasons?
holy fuck
I love that you take everything at face value as long as it suits your bias/narrative. The truth is we have no idea what is actually going on and the people working for afreeca are no saints either.
You're basing YOUR stance on what, exactly? Contrarianism?
My stance? That one shouldn't just take everything one side says at face value? Maybe common sense? I am not saying that blizzard wouldn't ever hurt bw through their actions one way or another (knowingly or not), but it seems reasonable to not just witch hunt one party without having a good idea about the whole situation.
On January 21 2018 01:01 .gypsy wrote: The lack of critical thought in this thread is appalling.
KeSPA most definitely had the same old disgusting corporate business practices as blizzard does now; I wouldn't put it past afreeca either.
You guys really think afreeca's some no-profit revive BW charity like they're presentint themselves to be in this statement. Give me a break probably just as bad as kespa.
I thought the word on the street was that blizzard couldn't throw money at BW because of their past agreements with KeSPA, making it so KeSPA had all the rights to hosting BW leagues (i.e. even if blizzard wanted to include BW in their wcs circuit they can't). Obviously there must be some overlap between execs at Afreeca and KeSPA or you know whatever rich south korean execs that made all the money off of eSports. We all know KeSPA were far from saints yet we're letting Afreeca get away with this one sided shit lmao.
Yeah Blizzard's obviously awful, but you can't just look at this PR press release and just mindlessly play into it lmao.
Get your heads out of your asses.
Ah yes, so it is because of Kespa that Blizzard can't throw money at BW, so they demand 100k in fees from Afreeca because reasons?
holy fuck
I love that you take everything at face value as long as it suits your bias/narrative. The truth is we have no idea what is actually going on and the people working for afreeca are no saints either.
You're basing YOUR stance on what, exactly? Contrarianism?
What? lol.
He was just suggesting, as I was, a bit more critique in our thoughts.
I mean critique is by definition contrarian, so okay? God forbid.
On January 21 2018 01:01 .gypsy wrote: The lack of critical thought in this thread is appalling.
KeSPA most definitely had the same old disgusting corporate business practices as blizzard does now; I wouldn't put it past afreeca either.
You guys really think afreeca's some no-profit revive BW charity like they're presentint themselves to be in this statement. Give me a break probably just as bad as kespa.
I thought the word on the street was that blizzard couldn't throw money at BW because of their past agreements with KeSPA, making it so KeSPA had all the rights to hosting BW leagues (i.e. even if blizzard wanted to include BW in their wcs circuit they can't). Obviously there must be some overlap between execs at Afreeca and KeSPA or you know whatever rich south korean execs that made all the money off of eSports. We all know KeSPA were far from saints yet we're letting Afreeca get away with this one sided shit lmao.
Yeah Blizzard's obviously awful, but you can't just look at this PR press release and just mindlessly play into it lmao.
Get your heads out of your asses.
Ah yes, so it is because of Kespa that Blizzard can't throw money at BW, so they demand 100k in fees from Afreeca because reasons?
holy fuck
I love that you take everything at face value as long as it suits your bias/narrative. The truth is we have no idea what is actually going on and the people working for afreeca are no saints either.
You're basing YOUR stance on what, exactly? Contrarianism?
My stance? That one shouldn't just take everything one side says at face value? Maybe common sense? I am not saying that blizzard wouldn't ever hurt bw through their actions one way or another (knowingly or not), but it seems reasonable to not just witch hunt one party without having a good idea about the whole situation.
Fact: ASL Season 5 is running behind schedule. ATB has been more or less killed off.
Fact: Blizzard is the root cause of these issues according to the party that held these tournaments without any difficulties prior to Blizzard's involvement.
I truly could not give a flying fuck over the details. Whether or not Blizzard is in the legal right, or whether AfreecaTV has ulterior motives behind this cry for help are matters that can be settled by those who have interest in the inner workings of either Blizzard or AfreecaTV.
The only competitive platform of Brood War is being threatened, and here you are being more concerned over the semantics of exactly how much evidence one needs to feel truly outraged. The most important idea has been shared already: ASL Season 5 is struggling to happen after Blizzard's new found interest in the Brood War scene. We both know how far Blizzard are willing to take things if they don't have things their way.
Outrage may not solve anything. However, mocking people for truly feeling hurt over the potential devastating consequences isn't doing any good either it seems.
The statement by the Afreeca CEO is vague and I am naturally suspicious of anyone who makes appeals to sentiment or emotion. It's not like Blizzard is helping out by remaining silent though.
Fact: ASL Season 5 is running behind schedule. ATB has been more or less killed off.
Fact: Blizzard is the root cause of these issues according to the party that held these tournaments without any difficulties prior to Blizzard's involvement.
hmmm
Listen to be real though I'm not trying to be a Blizzard apologist right. All I'm saying is that you know whoever has/has had their money in KeSPA most definitely has their money in Afreeca. AND what I've heard is that even if Blizzard wanted to host BW as part of their WCS, they wouldn't be able to due to previous negotiations with KeSPA. Now this is as much speculative as about everything that's been said in this thread, but in a world where this is true, people wouldn't be writing fuck blizzard one liners thinking that they're contributing to a discussion, and instead would be outraged at the korean esports corporations.
The bottom line is these are all corporations that are solely interested in their profit margins and don't give a fuck about BW. Blizzard thought SCR could make money in korea, and Afreeca thought they could make money off the ex pros streaming. THE END. What disgusts me is the sentimental, ideological approach Afreeca used, using people that actually give a shit about the game, while masquerading as martyrs of the cause (OH LOOK AT US WE REVIVED BW - BTW THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT BASICALLY SLAVE TRADED SOUTH KOREAN KIDS HI KESPA) as a tool to forwarding their corporate agenda, in this case strong arming blizzard through PR. You're all entitled to being angry but come on don't enable this shit.
does Michael Morhaime use twitter or anything? there is a slight chance, that he has no idea what's going on and would make a change for the better :[ i'm grasping at straws.
On January 21 2018 01:31 StylishVODs wrote: Sure, we don't have all the details. A lot of bw fans are still angry after how the transition to Starcraft 2 was handled, but also how remastered was released, filled with bugs and slow updates. It's not far fetched to assume that blizz currently isn't the company promoting bw as an e-sports in the best way.
Either way, whoever's at fault here, it's ridiculous that a 20 year old game that people want to play can't be played properly due to big corporations sucking the life out of it.
Honestly the update weren’t slow. There was a patch every week for like the first 12 weeks. The big problem was that it was released way too incomplete. No doubt it was the decision of the business group and not the developers to release the game in such a state. If it had been release in the state it is now then no doubt things would have been much different.
Fact: ASL Season 5 is running behind schedule. ATB has been more or less killed off.
Fact: Blizzard is the root cause of these issues according to the party that held these tournaments without any difficulties prior to Blizzard's involvement.
hmmm
Listen to be real though I'm not trying to be a Blizzard apologist right. All I'm saying is that you know whoever has/has had their money in KeSPA most definitely has their money in Afreeca. AND what I've heard is that even if Blizzard wanted to host BW as part of their WCS, they wouldn't be able to due to previous negotiations with KeSPA. Now this is as much speculative as about everything that's been said in this thread, but in a world where this is true, people wouldn't be writing fuck blizzard one liners thinking that they're contributing to a discussion, and instead would be outraged at the korean esports corporations.
The bottom line is these are all corporations that are solely interested in their profit margins and don't give a fuck about BW. Blizzard thought SCR could make money in korea, and Afreeca thought they could make money off the ex pros streaming. THE END. What disgusts me is the sentimental, ideological approach Afreeca used, using people that actually give a shit about the game, while masquerading as martyrs of the cause (OH LOOK AT US WE REVIVED BW - BTW THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT BASICALLY SLAVE TRADED SOUTH KOREAN KIDS HI KESPA) as a tool to forwarding their corporate agenda, in this case strong arming blizzard through PR. You're all entitled to being angry but come on don't enable this shit.
It seems straightforward enough for me. Unless Blizzard has plans to replace the ASL with a tournament of their own, the existence of the single most important competitive Brood War tournament is under threat after Blizzard's involvement.
That's the reality of the situation. I'm not hearing any plans for a large scale competitive Brood War scene funded by Blizzard in place of what we have currently. What I am hearing instead, are news of ATB Season 3 getting cancelled, ASL Season 5 struggling to take place, and rumours of Blizzard making things more difficult for AfreecaTV to host tournaments than when they weren't involved.
Blizzard has the power to shut down everything, and we have already seen the limits of their mercy. It seems that for whatever reasons, Blizzard seems to be unhappy with the status quo. Resolution either means Blizzard getting what they want, or everything being shut down. Perhaps it will all work out, and AfreecaTV will be able to give Blizzard what they desire. The other side of the coin is that everything people enjoyed so far ends.
Are you content with rolling the dice here while you contemplate how sincere the statement was? We already suffered the loss of ATB. The same dispute that ended ATB could be the one holding up ASL Season 5. Is Blizzard being in the legal right more important than the very existence of the ASL? Is ASL really that disposable in your eyes? What good comes from Blizzard being reasonable with their demands, if both AfreecaTV and Blizzard are no longer willing to host Brood War tournaments at the end of it? For all their faults, at least AfreecaTV sustained competitive Brood War until Blizzard joined the fray.
If the thought of AfreecaTV feigning the role of martyrs angers you more than the current reality of the situation, you clearly have different orders of priority than I do. I truly could not give a flying fuck over who happens to be the most corrupt between KeSPA, AfreecaTV, and Blizzard. I just want to see competitive Brood War happen. That is the thing that comes first for me. People can discuss the legalities, but it's all meaningless for me if we are discussing it standing over the corpse of competitive Brood War.
On January 21 2018 01:31 StylishVODs wrote: Sure, we don't have all the details. A lot of bw fans are still angry after how the transition to Starcraft 2 was handled, but also how remastered was released, filled with bugs and slow updates. It's not far fetched to assume that blizz currently isn't the company promoting bw as an e-sports in the best way.
Either way, whoever's at fault here, it's ridiculous that a 20 year old game that people want to play can't be played properly due to big corporations sucking the life out of it.
I want to add that it's not just the state of SCR but the timing of it that is upsetting. ASL3 was an emotional high and things were looking great for the future of pro BW coming back. Then all of the sudden Activision-Blizzard butts their head in again with the release of SCR. And they didn't just offer it as an option to fans, it seems they forced all the Korean PC bangs to convert so as to get more money, and of course the big tournaments converted, I don't know whether forced or not. The future of pro BW looks very much in danger now, and IMO Activision-Blizzard has played a huge role in that.
Fact: ASL Season 5 is running behind schedule. ATB has been more or less killed off.
Fact: Blizzard is the root cause of these issues according to the party that held these tournaments without any difficulties prior to Blizzard's involvement.
hmmm
Listen to be real though I'm not trying to be a Blizzard apologist right. All I'm saying is that you know whoever has/has had their money in KeSPA most definitely has their money in Afreeca. AND what I've heard is that even if Blizzard wanted to host BW as part of their WCS, they wouldn't be able to due to previous negotiations with KeSPA. Now this is as much speculative as about everything that's been said in this thread, but in a world where this is true, people wouldn't be writing fuck blizzard one liners thinking that they're contributing to a discussion, and instead would be outraged at the korean esports corporations.
The bottom line is these are all corporations that are solely interested in their profit margins and don't give a fuck about BW. Blizzard thought SCR could make money in korea, and Afreeca thought they could make money off the ex pros streaming. THE END. What disgusts me is the sentimental, ideological approach Afreeca used, using people that actually give a shit about the game, while masquerading as martyrs of the cause (OH LOOK AT US WE REVIVED BW - BTW THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT BASICALLY SLAVE TRADED SOUTH KOREAN KIDS HI KESPA) as a tool to forwarding their corporate agenda, in this case strong arming blizzard through PR. You're all entitled to being angry but come on don't enable this shit.
It seems straightforward enough for me. Unless Blizzard has plans to replace the ASL with a tournament of their own, the existence of the single most important competitive Brood War tournament is under threat after Blizzard's involvement.
That's the reality of the situation. I'm not hearing any plans for a large scale competitive Brood War scene funded by Blizzard in place of what we have currently. What I am hearing instead, are news of ATB Season 3 getting cancelled, ASL Season 5 struggling to take place, and rumours of Blizzard making things more difficult for AfreecaTV to host tournaments than when they weren't involved.
Blizzard has the power to shut down everything, and we have already seen the limits of their mercy. It seems that for whatever reasons, Blizzard seems to be unhappy with the status quo. Resolution either means Blizzard getting what they want, or everything being shut down. Perhaps it will all work out, and AfreecaTV will be able to give Blizzard what they desire. The other side of the coin is that everything people enjoyed so far ends.
Are you content with rolling the dice here while you contemplate how sincere the statement was? We already suffered the loss of ATB. The same dispute that ended ATB could be the one holding up ASL Season 5. Is Blizzard being in the legal right more important than the very existence of the ASL? Is ASL really that disposable in your eyes? What good comes from Blizzard being reasonable with their demands, if both AfreecaTV and Blizzard are no longer willing to host Brood War tournaments at the end of it? For all their faults, at least AfreecaTV sustained competitive Brood War until Blizzard joined the fray.
If the thought of AfreecaTV feigning the role of martyrs angers you more than the current reality of the situation, you clearly have different orders of priority than I do. I truly could not give a flying fuck over who happens to be the most corrupt between KeSPA, AfreecaTV, and Blizzard. I just want to see competitive Brood War happen. That is the thing comes first for me. People can discuss the legalities, but it's all meaningless for me if we are discussing it standing over the corpse of competitive Brood War.
completely agree with Letmelose here. I think he nailed the point and it should be a lecture for people who care about the drama more than about the game. By Blizzard Actions we might loose professional Korean Broodwar. That's all that matters to me.
So here are the actual facts and feel free to contend with some of these but this is how I've viewed everything thus far.
AfreecaTV has come out to say that Blizzard is difficult to work with and putting a lot of difficulty into getting the ASL5.
Blizzard has given no other opinion to state that this is true, nor that this is false. They have had radio silence on us and don't seem interested at all in trying to correct the record or defend themselves.
Therefore, people are more upset at Blizzard because of their lack of transparency into the situation. This on top of the fact that Blizzard has been historically a poor company to work with for these tournaments.
So what happens next? Well, the best way is to have Blizzard come out with their own statement regarding the situation, which is highly doubtful considering they haven't already and I'm not sure they even give a damn about our community. Regardless, right now we're stuck with no ASL5, and a pissed off community.
Whether his intentions are good or not the CEO of Afreeca should not be negotiating through the media like this. It poisons the well and could be what ultimately brings things to an end. A very bad move. Hopefully his antics work and push Blizzard towards striking a deal, but classless.
I'd say this was bad by the Afreeca CEO, except, how many times have Blizzard completely botched competitive efforts in the last 20 years? A dozen? A hundreds?
On January 21 2018 04:43 Quesadilla wrote: I'd say this was bad by the Afreeca CEO, except, how many times have Blizzard completely botched competitive efforts in the last 20 years? A dozen? A hundreds?
They killed their own game.
It's not their game.
Blizzard own the rights to Broodwar, but they did not develop it.
Why would do Blizzard want to do any of this? It makes no sense to shoot themselves in the foot with this, there surely must be another reason.
What is the current legal situation with regards to the Brood War broadcasting rights, does KeSPA still own them, did Blizzard regained all of the rights with release of SC:R. And if KeSPA has the rights for 1.16 but not SC:R, is Blizzard afraid of getting sued by KeSPA?
On January 21 2018 04:43 Quesadilla wrote: I'd say this was bad by the Afreeca CEO, except, how many times have Blizzard completely botched competitive efforts in the last 20 years? A dozen? A hundreds?
They killed their own game.
It's not their game.
Blizzard own the rights to Broodwar, but they did not develop it.
Blizzard is basically Martin Shkreli
i don't know if it's fair or appropriate to compare the right to host computer game tournaments to cancer drugs needed by sick human beings
On January 21 2018 04:43 Quesadilla wrote: I'd say this was bad by the Afreeca CEO, except, how many times have Blizzard completely botched competitive efforts in the last 20 years? A dozen? A hundreds?
They killed their own game.
It's not their game.
Blizzard own the rights to Broodwar, but they did not develop it.
Blizzard is basically Martin Shkreli
Lets not get carried away Blizzard is not killing anyone.
On January 21 2018 05:41 sabas123 wrote: Why would do Blizzard want to do any of this? It makes no sense to shoot themselves in the foot with this, there surely must be another reason.
Blizzard is notoriously dysfunctional internally. There's probably a power struggle going on between people who think BW fans need to "move on" to a new game and the people who advocated for BW:R. The resultant deadlock means that no tournaments are being approved, which of course suits the former faction just fine.
On January 21 2018 05:41 sabas123 wrote: Why would do Blizzard want to do any of this? It makes no sense to shoot themselves in the foot with this, there surely must be another reason.
What is the current legal situation with regards to the Brood War broadcasting rights, does KeSPA still own them, did Blizzard regained all of the rights with release of SC:R. And if KeSPA has the rights for 1.16 but not SC:R, is Blizzard afraid of getting sued by KeSPA?
The activeness of BW directly hurt SC2's presence.
Let's face it, its a zero sum game for the games, despite what people will brainwash you to think otherwise.
On January 21 2018 05:41 sabas123 wrote: Why would do Blizzard want to do any of this? It makes no sense to shoot themselves in the foot with this, there surely must be another reason.
Without Afreeca's ASL, a major event simply won't happen in Korea unless Blizzard invests heavily into it (who would run it other than Blizzard??). However, without Blizzard's approval, there can be no ASL at all. Blizzard knows this, so I imagine you can think of it as a way to make money for free. They don't have to put in a dime to run ASL, but instead can demand money.
So, here's a timeline based on my vague understanding of the events that have transpired thus far, from what I've read on here from people who seem to be in the know (please correct me if I'm mistaken @Letmelose @Waxangel @etc.):
KeSPA/OGN/MBC 2003ish: We're gonna continue broadcasting Brood War on TV. Blizzard 2003: Sure whatever, idgaf.
KeSPA/OGN/MBC 2009ish: Hey we're gonna continue broadcasting Brood War on TV, we still cool right? Blizzard 2009: NAaaAAAAaaawww son, SC2 coming out. You best pay us licensing fees. How about $5000 for Proleague? KeSPA/OGN/MBC 2009: What? Fuck that, that's bullshit. Blizzard 2009: Aiite, fuck you too then, we're gonna give the rights to GOMTV, y'all can pay or get bent. KeSPA/OGN/MBC 2009: Ugh, fuck, fine.
Blizzard 2011/2012: Hey bitches, it's time to transition to SC2. Fuck this Brood War shit, ya heard? KeSPA/OGN [RIP MBC]: Fuck it, whatever.
Afreeca 2016: We on the come up boyz Blizzard 2016: Oh shit. This Brood War shit still around. Let's release a remaster and regain control of this fledgling third party scene. Can't let these bitches have too much autonomy. Blizzard 2016: Remastered coming out soon! Free matchmaking! HD graphics! 16 : 9! Custom hotkeys! We're gonna support fish! Vetted by progamers! Better than your grandma's apple pie!
Blizzard 2017: Actually nevermind, fuck your free matchmaking, most of you dedicated hardcore nerds would never buy RM if we don't make it a purchase-only feature anyway, fuck y'all. Blizzard 2017: Alright, here's PTR boyos. Btw, OpenBW, ShieldBattery, suck a fat one! #first Afreeca 2017: C-can we run ATB still, b-boss? Blizzard 2017: Fuck that, wait for RM to come out. Afreeca 2017: O-okay. ... Progamers 2017: Yo this shit don't work right. Blizzard 2017: Here have some patches, months after we forced this product down ya throat. Progamers 2017: ...T-thank you... ... Afreeca 2017: Boss, can we please run ASL5? Blizzard 2017: *** Afreeca 2018: Fans, pls, someone talk some sense into big boss Blizzard... Some TL fans: Fuck Blizzard. Some other TL fans: Naw, we can't be sure! We need to get to the bottom of this first!
**Apparently conjecturing on what actually transpired here is taboo! No precedents here, let's not jump to conclusions!
However, here's how the situation might be going down. Blizzard demands an exorbitant sum for licensing. Afreeca can't negotiate: either they pay, or Blizzard doesn't let them run the tournament. Even if Afreeca can produce the money, Blizzard can still say no while it decides what it wants to do. It doesn't actually hurt them anymore, because it's not like Afreeca can go get their Brood War from someone else. What if Blizzard is deciding whether it wants more money or not? What if Blizzard wants to renegotiate some of the terms of the contract - for example, making some SC2 advertisements in between each match? Or having Overwatch promotions somewhere? Force Afreeca to promote Overwatch outside of ASL - such as on their site, and to give those streamers preferential treatment somehow? There are a ton of possible reasons for why Blizzard would be stalling on their end, and not all of them involve them "shooting themselves in the foot" because they are the ones that hold the cards here.
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: Nice meme. Its still business. Just that Afreeca has invested too much into SCBW to back out now. They used to almost exclusively have BW streamers and capitalized on their monopoly. Now, BW is getting less popular in Korea, old progamers are starting to play PUBG, and many of them are simultaneously broadcasting to youtube and twitch, ultimately better optimized platforms. Afreeca tried to regulate the migration, but came under heavy fire and had to give up. They aren't getting back what they invested into BW, and they are too late to jump on the PUBG progaming train, so they have no choice but to pretend they care about their bw streamers more than twitch or youtube does. One of the ways include ASL, which is why they're keeping it up for now though it is inevitably in the red. None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are. Literally Soo-Gil says nothing of substance in his whole plea, just "hey, we're the good guys, if only Blizzard will give in, we can have this!" Vise versa holds true. In my opinion, with all the other greedy stunts he's pulled over the years, Afreeca are probably stubborn about something simple so they can protect their ego, and are resorting to mass rage since Blizzard won't take their shit.
I'm quoting this because it seems like one of the more levelheaded non-emotional responses in the thread. These are big companies, it's unlikely morality is a point of discussion aside from technical legality and "do we think this will piss people off to a degree that we're going to lose money over it?"
I don't completely understand how this is one of the more levelheaded responses when it is far more leaps than most people in this thread are making on top of just being on the other side of the coin in the blame game.
People are just wondering exactly how Blizzard can say they want to see more tournaments come up and flourish with the release of Remastered, and then charge such an incredible licensing fee that the most suitable company to do so isn't even able to. I think that is a legitimate concern and question that people have a right to ask, and is not inflammatory in any way or taking anything out of context. It also seems a lot less gratuitous than claiming the Afreeca CEO is on a burning ship and solely wants cheaper rights to keep his platform afloat. Oh, how malicious. How evil. Please charge them up the ass, cause how dare Afreeca want to survive as a company. OK good posts dudes.
I think if you tried to analyze the situation with a calmer head you will realize that the post isn't saying afreeca is evil, just that they never had the community's best interest in mind unlike what many posters are wont to believe here. ngl I've seen this crap over and over again in TL since about 2010, where one good gesture towards the game overshadows every other crap they do. Happened with Sonic, happened with the federation, happening with Soo-gil. It truly isn't that hard of a concept to grasp. Nobody is an angel, that doesn't make them the devil either. Its just business.
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: Nice meme. Its still business. Just that Afreeca has invested too much into SCBW to back out now. They used to almost exclusively have BW streamers and capitalized on their monopoly. Now, BW is getting less popular in Korea, old progamers are starting to play PUBG, and many of them are simultaneously broadcasting to youtube and twitch, ultimately better optimized platforms. Afreeca tried to regulate the migration, but came under heavy fire and had to give up. They aren't getting back what they invested into BW, and they are too late to jump on the PUBG progaming train, so they have no choice but to pretend they care about their bw streamers more than twitch or youtube does. One of the ways include ASL, which is why they're keeping it up for now though it is inevitably in the red. None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are. Literally Soo-Gil says nothing of substance in his whole plea, just "hey, we're the good guys, if only Blizzard will give in, we can have this!" Vise versa holds true. In my opinion, with all the other greedy stunts he's pulled over the years, Afreeca are probably stubborn about something simple so they can protect their ego, and are resorting to mass rage since Blizzard won't take their shit.
I'm quoting this because it seems like one of the more levelheaded non-emotional responses in the thread. These are big companies, it's unlikely morality is a point of discussion aside from technical legality and "do we think this will piss people off to a degree that we're going to lose money over it?"
I don't completely understand how this is one of the more levelheaded responses when it is far more leaps than most people in this thread are making on top of just being on the other side of the coin in the blame game.
People are just wondering exactly how Blizzard can say they want to see more tournaments come up and flourish with the release of Remastered, and then charge such an incredible licensing fee that the most suitable company to do so isn't even able to. I think that is a legitimate concern and question that people have a right to ask, and is not inflammatory in any way or taking anything out of context. It also seems a lot less gratuitous than claiming the Afreeca CEO is on a burning ship and solely wants cheaper rights to keep his platform afloat. Oh, how malicious. How evil. Please charge them up the ass, cause how dare Afreeca want to survive as a company. OK good posts dudes.
I think if you tried to analyze the situation with a calmer head you will realize that the post isn't saying afreeca is evil, just that they never had the community's best interest in mind unlike what many posters are wont to believe here. ngl I've seen this crap over and over again in TL since about 2010, where one good gesture towards the game overshadows every other crap they do. Happened with Sonic, happened with the federation, happening with Soo-gil. It truly isn't that hard of a concept to grasp. Nobody is an angel, that doesn't make them the devil either. Its just business.
Four top quality tournaments and a streaming platform for top pros is more than just "one good gesture". I don't presume to speak for the entire community's best interest, but I think a lot of us just want to see BW as an e-sport like it was in the Kespa days. Afreeca has given us a lot in that direction. Activision-Blizzard has not contributed anything to that, and has even actively got in the way. This isn't a symmetrical deal.
***CALL TO ARMS*** https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20760966718 post i made to OPPRESS blizzard we need an army to make a difference. EVERY VOICE MATTERS. Please go post just tell them how you feel and like comments spread the word. the time is now we are the resistance. Never back down! Never Surrender! ***CALL TO ARMS***
On January 21 2018 08:44 JacktheTerr wrote: ***CALL TO ARMS*** https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20760966718 post i made to OPPRESS blizzard we need an army to make a difference. EVERY VOICE MATTERS. Please go post just tell them how you feel and like comments spread the word. the time is now we are the resistance. Never back down! Never Surrender! ***CALL TO ARMS***
I posted in that thread requesting Blizz to help or step aside. I dunno what else I can do. I just really wanna see some pro Korean BW tourneys. Flash for life.
I love BW and miss ASL as much as the next fanboy, but a lot of the 'fuck blizzz fufufufu' posts really miss the point. Unless, I misunderstood the original post (not sure how Korean/ENG translations work) he's not blaming Blizzard for the decline of ASL, but saying that there is very little support for BW from sponsors and begging Blizz for help.
Blizz could throw a lot of money at it, but I can't see a lot of incentive for them to do from a purely business side. I wouldn't be surprised if SC2 isn't in the same boat in 2-5 years. The e-sports market has become way more competitive, and blizz really screwed up by trying to advance SC2 back in 2012 at the expense of the organic BW community in Korea.
But at this point it just all feels like damage done by now
On January 21 2018 09:13 Neverendar wrote: I love BW and miss ASL as much as the next fanboy, but a lot of the 'fuck blizzz fufufufu' posts really miss the point. Unless, I misunderstood the original post (not sure how Korean/ENG translations work) he's not blaming Blizzard for the decline of ASL, but saying that there is very little support for BW from sponsors and begging Blizz for help.
Blizz could throw a lot of money at it, but I can't see a lot of incentive for them to do from a purely business side. I wouldn't be surprised if SC2 isn't in the same boat in 2-5 years. The e-sports market has become way more competitive, and blizz really screwed up by trying to advance SC2 back in 2012 at the expense of the organic BW community in Korea.
But at this point it just all feels like damage done by now
To me it reads like Blizzard is impeding the opening of the next ASL by requesting fees. Afreeca is then saying that the ASL makes no profit to begin with so paying a fee to run an unlucrative tourney is impossible and they want Blizzard to waive the fees and allow them to continue on their own.
I know, that's a lot of reading into, and I don't know if I'm right or not.
Hey, I just made my first twitter account. I made a tweet #HelpOrStepAside. I have no idea if I did it right. Reply to it if you agree or if I did something technically wrong let me know.
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: Nice meme. Its still business. Just that Afreeca has invested too much into SCBW to back out now. They used to almost exclusively have BW streamers and capitalized on their monopoly. Now, BW is getting less popular in Korea, old progamers are starting to play PUBG, and many of them are simultaneously broadcasting to youtube and twitch, ultimately better optimized platforms. Afreeca tried to regulate the migration, but came under heavy fire and had to give up. They aren't getting back what they invested into BW, and they are too late to jump on the PUBG progaming train, so they have no choice but to pretend they care about their bw streamers more than twitch or youtube does. One of the ways include ASL, which is why they're keeping it up for now though it is inevitably in the red. None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are. Literally Soo-Gil says nothing of substance in his whole plea, just "hey, we're the good guys, if only Blizzard will give in, we can have this!" Vise versa holds true. In my opinion, with all the other greedy stunts he's pulled over the years, Afreeca are probably stubborn about something simple so they can protect their ego, and are resorting to mass rage since Blizzard won't take their shit.
I'm quoting this because it seems like one of the more levelheaded non-emotional responses in the thread. These are big companies, it's unlikely morality is a point of discussion aside from technical legality and "do we think this will piss people off to a degree that we're going to lose money over it?"
I don't completely understand how this is one of the more levelheaded responses when it is far more leaps than most people in this thread are making on top of just being on the other side of the coin in the blame game.
People are just wondering exactly how Blizzard can say they want to see more tournaments come up and flourish with the release of Remastered, and then charge such an incredible licensing fee that the most suitable company to do so isn't even able to. I think that is a legitimate concern and question that people have a right to ask, and is not inflammatory in any way or taking anything out of context. It also seems a lot less gratuitous than claiming the Afreeca CEO is on a burning ship and solely wants cheaper rights to keep his platform afloat. Oh, how malicious. How evil. Please charge them up the ass, cause how dare Afreeca want to survive as a company. OK good posts dudes.
I think if you tried to analyze the situation with a calmer head you will realize that the post isn't saying afreeca is evil, just that they never had the community's best interest in mind unlike what many posters are wont to believe here. ngl I've seen this crap over and over again in TL since about 2010, where one good gesture towards the game overshadows every other crap they do. Happened with Sonic, happened with the federation, happening with Soo-gil. It truly isn't that hard of a concept to grasp. Nobody is an angel, that doesn't make them the devil either. Its just business.
Four top quality tournaments and a streaming platform for top pros is more than just "one good gesture". I don't presume to speak for the entire community's best interest, but I think a lot of us just want to see BW as an e-sport like it was in the Kespa days. Afreeca has given us a lot in that direction. Activision-Blizzard has not contributed anything to that, and has even actively got in the way. This isn't a symmetrical deal.
Streaming platform that actively seeked to ban them for streaming on other platforms hmmm.... Yeah totally great. Only the best interests of the players in mind. Afreeca must only be doing great stuff for the scene. I understand the "I just want a tournament, whoever is stopping it just give in and let it happen ree" mindset, since the time for SCBW is going away quickly, but at the same time, holy crap its getting overemotional and childish with no other research nor information in play. Twitter accounts and hashtags? What is this witch hunt off of one side's word?
Until the other side responds we only have one side's words. Let them respond. I'm all for it. But I don't want to see them kill BW again. How many lives can this game have?
I understand Afreeca is a business and need to make money. I'm a consumer- oddly not of Afreeca products, but of Blizzard products. I want to play Blizzard games and watch tourneys of Blizzard's games, specifically BroodWar. I don't really care who is the producer of these tourneys, but if Blizzard is actually getting in the way of these trouneys happening, then yes I have a problem with that. I'd love to hear Blizzard's side.
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: Nice meme. Its still business. Just that Afreeca has invested too much into SCBW to back out now. They used to almost exclusively have BW streamers and capitalized on their monopoly. Now, BW is getting less popular in Korea, old progamers are starting to play PUBG, and many of them are simultaneously broadcasting to youtube and twitch, ultimately better optimized platforms. Afreeca tried to regulate the migration, but came under heavy fire and had to give up. They aren't getting back what they invested into BW, and they are too late to jump on the PUBG progaming train, so they have no choice but to pretend they care about their bw streamers more than twitch or youtube does. One of the ways include ASL, which is why they're keeping it up for now though it is inevitably in the red. None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are. Literally Soo-Gil says nothing of substance in his whole plea, just "hey, we're the good guys, if only Blizzard will give in, we can have this!" Vise versa holds true. In my opinion, with all the other greedy stunts he's pulled over the years, Afreeca are probably stubborn about something simple so they can protect their ego, and are resorting to mass rage since Blizzard won't take their shit.
I'm quoting this because it seems like one of the more levelheaded non-emotional responses in the thread. These are big companies, it's unlikely morality is a point of discussion aside from technical legality and "do we think this will piss people off to a degree that we're going to lose money over it?"
I don't completely understand how this is one of the more levelheaded responses when it is far more leaps than most people in this thread are making on top of just being on the other side of the coin in the blame game.
People are just wondering exactly how Blizzard can say they want to see more tournaments come up and flourish with the release of Remastered, and then charge such an incredible licensing fee that the most suitable company to do so isn't even able to. I think that is a legitimate concern and question that people have a right to ask, and is not inflammatory in any way or taking anything out of context. It also seems a lot less gratuitous than claiming the Afreeca CEO is on a burning ship and solely wants cheaper rights to keep his platform afloat. Oh, how malicious. How evil. Please charge them up the ass, cause how dare Afreeca want to survive as a company. OK good posts dudes.
I think if you tried to analyze the situation with a calmer head you will realize that the post isn't saying afreeca is evil, just that they never had the community's best interest in mind unlike what many posters are wont to believe here. ngl I've seen this crap over and over again in TL since about 2010, where one good gesture towards the game overshadows every other crap they do. Happened with Sonic, happened with the federation, happening with Soo-gil. It truly isn't that hard of a concept to grasp. Nobody is an angel, that doesn't make them the devil either. Its just business.
Four top quality tournaments and a streaming platform for top pros is more than just "one good gesture". I don't presume to speak for the entire community's best interest, but I think a lot of us just want to see BW as an e-sport like it was in the Kespa days. Afreeca has given us a lot in that direction. Activision-Blizzard has not contributed anything to that, and has even actively got in the way. This isn't a symmetrical deal.
Streaming platform that actively seeked to ban them for streaming on other platforms hmmm.... Yeah totally great. Only the best interests of the players in mind. Afreeca must only be doing great stuff for the scene. I understand the "I just want a tournament, whoever is stopping it just give in and let it happen ree" mindset, since the time for SCBW is going away quickly, but at the same time, holy crap its getting overemotional and childish with no other research nor information in play. Twitter accounts and hashtags? What is this witch hunt off of one side's word?
You do realize that there is clear distinction between attempting monopoly at something, and threatening to end something without plans to replace that content?
AfreecaTV may be untrustworthy in a whole lot of senses but the one thing they could be counted on was to be the lone successful host of competitive and casual Brood War after MBC Game got shut down, and Ongamenet abandoned their decade long legacy with tears from the casters and cringe-worthy Starcraft 2 promotion from Mike Morhaime. Sonic, was a criminal, but a criminal who supported Brood War with his illegal earnings. See my drift here? Here you are focusing on who is more unwholesome between the likes of AfreecaTV and Blizzard, when the main point of focus for many is the fact that the survival of competitive Brood War is at risk.
If AfreecaTV abandons competitive Brood War, what guarantees do we have of competitive Brood War thriving more than ever after being freed from the shackles of AfreecaTV? Let us suppose that Blizzard is completely in the right once further information gets exposed. Does that change the fact that AfreecaTV is struggling to host competitive Brood War due to Blizzard's policies, and how likely it is for nobody to play the role of AfreecaTV for competitive Brood War should AfreecaTV abandon competitive Brood War rather than comply to Blizzard's demands? What good comes out of Blizzard being in the right, and AfreecaTV being in the wrong, if in the end that means competitive Brood War gets held back?
There's nothing more important to me than competitive Brood War being healthy. Unless Blizzard has plans to provide something of substance in place of what they are threatening to remove, they are accountable for what might happen. No amount of pointing fingers towards the flaws of AfreecaTV will change that fact. For all their imperfections, AfreecaTV has been championing Brood War as their premium content for years on end. That, to me, is more important than finding out whether Blizzard is rightful in their actions to stop ASL from taking place. Blizzard can be stopping ASL to find the solution for world peace for all I care. The ends never justify the means if it means the destruction of competitive Brood War. That is the reason for the outrage.
Tell me with a straight face that competitive Brood War will never will get hurt by Blizzard, and this has been all a misunderstanding due to lack of relevant information. Please convince me that this is all a part of Blizzard's plan to make competitive Brood War greater than ever. Placate my over-emotional outbursts with factual evidence of how AfreecaTV isn't vital for the continuation of competitive Brood War, and how there is 100% full-proof guarantee of competitive Brood War being safe from harm should this feud between Blizzard and AfreecaTV turn out for the worst.
Until then, give me a break with that condescending tone of telling people to stop being emotional over something they truly are concerned over, just because you can afford to move on should the worst happen.
It seems like this is the most unified initiative we are going to scrap together. Twitter and Blizzard forum posts will have to be our medium of attempted communication.
First off, thank you to everybody who is putting some effort into this thing. Anything that has the potential to influence the future of the ASL is important and you are all awesome.
On January 21 2018 09:42 Devolved wrote: Hey, I just made my first twitter account. I made a tweet #HelpOrStepAside. I have no idea if I did it right. Reply to it if you agree or if I did something technically wrong let me know.
You asked for some advice, so please hear me out. The #HelpOrStepAside sounds really aggressive and divisive to me, and I think the message we should be sending should be one of solidarity. I don't think we should be attacking Blizzard or giving them the impression that it is us against them. I think we should be trying to open dialogue so that we can voice our views, and then convince the right people Blizzard that our views actually do matter. Telling them to "step aside" is just... lol man. This is a huge fucking corporation. This is analogous to a homeless man yelling at a 20 story building to "get out my way!" It just sounds too much like an empty threat.
I also think it is important to have ASL or at least something related to Starcraft somewhere in the hashtag, so that people with a casual interest in SC might be more inclined to read about our struggle and be encouraged to help. There are a lot of people who have played this game over the years and might be willing to help us, even if they know nothing about the ASL or professional Starcraft.
Starting your tweet with "Yo Blizzard!" and the general tone of your tweet does not suggest a serious position (no offense, this is imo). It suggests a casual attitude and a lack of respect. Now don't get offended! I am just trying my best to be real about the situation here.
We need to do our best to represent the Starcraft fanbase, because that is actually what we are doing here. As individuals we are powerless, but as a group we command attention. We need Blizzard to think about our position seriously and that won't happen unless we show them at least a little respect... I mean, this is the same company (more or less) that created this beautiful game. We at least owe them a shade of humility when we try to reach out to them.
Lastly, I think people might be focusing too much on their issues with Blizzard and not focusing on what a concerted effort like this could do for our community. There could be huge ramifications that affect not only the fifth ASL, but every Starleague hereafter. This is big boys.
Let us focus on our love for Starcraft, not on our petty hatreds. Let us forget the bullshit semantics and the business politics and realize what our ultimate goal is: To see the fifth ASL underway. That is all that matters, nothing else.
This game has built one of the best communities I have ever been a part of. I fucking love Starcraft and I love watching the best players in the world compete. I know you all feel that love and the strength that flows from it. Let go of your skepticism and start to believe. We can do this!!
On January 21 2018 02:59 [AS]Rattus wrote: does Michael Morhaime use twitter or anything? there is a slight chance, that he has no idea what's going on and would make a change for the better :[ i'm grasping at straws.
good joke. He was the one who announced the end of professional BW and told people to move on.
On January 21 2018 02:59 [AS]Rattus wrote: does Michael Morhaime use twitter or anything? there is a slight chance, that he has no idea what's going on and would make a change for the better :[ i'm grasping at straws.
good joke. He was the one who announced the end of professional BW and told people to move on.
He was also the same guy that Wax tweeted when the SSL7 finals was in jeopardy to resolve the issue.
BW is dead. Afreeca makes money from BW streamers, Blizzard want these money, and they want to get on plus from what they put into the remastered version, thats all. Korean ex-progamers seeing that starcraft remastered is sinking ship and they switched to streaming other games - so now there is not enough money from bw fans to afreeca and afreeca cant fund blizzard for tournament fees. That uncertain environment pushes away any potential sponsors. There is no coming back, even with ASL 5 and ATB started, there is no future for profesional Broodwar. Once sponsors and players lost motivation and interest you cant expect a different outcome.
Although this is my favorite game I will never buy remastered version, i play at iccup and enjoy it very much. Blizzard dont deserve my money. As the only good thing they do for broodwar is to release the classic game which i own legally already.
On January 21 2018 22:15 _Animus_ wrote: BW is dead. Afreeca makes money from BW streamers, Blizzard want these money, and they want to get on plus from what they put into the remastered version, thats all. Korean ex-progamers seeing that starcraft remastered is sinking ship and they switched to streaming other games - so now there is not enough money from bw fans to afreeca and afreeca cant fund blizzard for tournament fees. That uncertain environment pushes away any potential sponsors. There is no coming back, even with ASL 5 and ATB started, there is no future for profesional Broodwar. Once sponsors and players lost motivation and interest you cant expect a different outcome.
Although this is my favorite game I will never buy remastered version, i play at iccup and enjoy it very much. Blizzard dont deserve my money. As the only good thing they do for broodwar is to release the classic game which i own legally already.
If you are talking about 1.16.1 it should be free to dl on the Blizzard homepage
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: Nice meme. Its still business. Just that Afreeca has invested too much into SCBW to back out now. They used to almost exclusively have BW streamers and capitalized on their monopoly. Now, BW is getting less popular in Korea, old progamers are starting to play PUBG, and many of them are simultaneously broadcasting to youtube and twitch, ultimately better optimized platforms. Afreeca tried to regulate the migration, but came under heavy fire and had to give up. They aren't getting back what they invested into BW, and they are too late to jump on the PUBG progaming train, so they have no choice but to pretend they care about their bw streamers more than twitch or youtube does. One of the ways include ASL, which is why they're keeping it up for now though it is inevitably in the red. None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are. Literally Soo-Gil says nothing of substance in his whole plea, just "hey, we're the good guys, if only Blizzard will give in, we can have this!" Vise versa holds true. In my opinion, with all the other greedy stunts he's pulled over the years, Afreeca are probably stubborn about something simple so they can protect their ego, and are resorting to mass rage since Blizzard won't take their shit.
I'm quoting this because it seems like one of the more levelheaded non-emotional responses in the thread. These are big companies, it's unlikely morality is a point of discussion aside from technical legality and "do we think this will piss people off to a degree that we're going to lose money over it?"
I don't completely understand how this is one of the more levelheaded responses when it is far more leaps than most people in this thread are making on top of just being on the other side of the coin in the blame game.
People are just wondering exactly how Blizzard can say they want to see more tournaments come up and flourish with the release of Remastered, and then charge such an incredible licensing fee that the most suitable company to do so isn't even able to. I think that is a legitimate concern and question that people have a right to ask, and is not inflammatory in any way or taking anything out of context. It also seems a lot less gratuitous than claiming the Afreeca CEO is on a burning ship and solely wants cheaper rights to keep his platform afloat. Oh, how malicious. How evil. Please charge them up the ass, cause how dare Afreeca want to survive as a company. OK good posts dudes.
I think if you tried to analyze the situation with a calmer head you will realize that the post isn't saying afreeca is evil, just that they never had the community's best interest in mind unlike what many posters are wont to believe here. ngl I've seen this crap over and over again in TL since about 2010, where one good gesture towards the game overshadows every other crap they do. Happened with Sonic, happened with the federation, happening with Soo-gil. It truly isn't that hard of a concept to grasp. Nobody is an angel, that doesn't make them the devil either. Its just business.
Four top quality tournaments and a streaming platform for top pros is more than just "one good gesture". I don't presume to speak for the entire community's best interest, but I think a lot of us just want to see BW as an e-sport like it was in the Kespa days. Afreeca has given us a lot in that direction. Activision-Blizzard has not contributed anything to that, and has even actively got in the way. This isn't a symmetrical deal.
Streaming platform that actively seeked to ban them for streaming on other platforms hmmm.... Yeah totally great. Only the best interests of the players in mind. Afreeca must only be doing great stuff for the scene. I understand the "I just want a tournament, whoever is stopping it just give in and let it happen ree" mindset, since the time for SCBW is going away quickly, but at the same time, holy crap its getting overemotional and childish with no other research nor information in play. Twitter accounts and hashtags? What is this witch hunt off of one side's word?
You do realize that there is clear distinction between attempting monopoly at something, and threatening to end something without plans to replace that content?
AfreecaTV may be untrustworthy in a whole lot of senses but the one thing they could be counted on was to be the lone successful host of competitive and casual Brood War after MBC Game got shut down, and Ongamenet abandoned their decade long legacy with tears from the casters and cringe-worthy Starcraft 2 promotion from Mike Morhaime. Sonic, was a criminal, but a criminal who supported Brood War with his illegal earnings. See my drift here? Here you are focusing on who is more unwholesome between the likes of AfreecaTV and Blizzard, when the main point of focus for many is the fact that the survival of competitive Brood War is at risk.
If AfreecaTV abandons competitive Brood War, what guarantees do we have of competitive Brood War thriving more than ever after being freed from the shackles of AfreecaTV? Let us suppose that Blizzard is completely in the right once further information gets exposed. Does that change the fact that AfreecaTV is struggling to host competitive Brood War due to Blizzard's policies, and how likely it is for nobody to play the role of AfreecaTV for competitive Brood War should AfreecaTV abandon competitive Brood War rather than comply to Blizzard's demands? What good comes out of Blizzard being in the right, and AfreecaTV being in the wrong, if in the end that means competitive Brood War gets held back?
There's nothing more important to me than competitive Brood War being healthy. Unless Blizzard has plans to provide something of substance in place of what they are threatening to remove, they are accountable for what might happen. No amount of pointing fingers towards the flaws of AfreecaTV will change that fact. For all their imperfections, AfreecaTV has been championing Brood War as their premium content for years on end. That, to me, is more important than finding out whether Blizzard is rightful in their actions to stop ASL from taking place. Blizzard can be stopping ASL to find the solution for world peace for all I care. The ends never justify the means if it means the destruction of competitive Brood War. That is the reason for the outrage.
Tell me with a straight face that competitive Brood War will never will get hurt by Blizzard, and this has been all a misunderstanding due to lack of relevant information. Please convince me that this is all a part of Blizzard's plan to make competitive Brood War greater than ever. Placate my over-emotional outbursts with factual evidence of how AfreecaTV isn't vital for the continuation of competitive Brood War, and how there is 100% full-proof guarantee of competitive Brood War being safe from harm should this feud between Blizzard and AfreecaTV turn out for the worst.
Until then, give me a break with that condescending tone of telling people to stop being emotional over something they truly are concerned over, just because you can afford to move on should the worst happen.
Obviously, people don't want BW leagues to end here, and in their desperation for this game they lash out against Blizzard with no substance. #Helporstandaside <- does this hashtag seem like a calm, logical manner in which the main point of focus is survival of BW? It looks to me like just another #BlizzardSux hashtag that you see on every single Facebook post they make.
Just as many are stating the shift be towards the game, not the company, but still, there are a substantial amount of people that would like to close their eyes and ears and shout what they want to. I just want those people to know that they aren't necessarily saying the right stuff. I'm looking at the many one liners going "Yeah fuck Blizzard I never liked them." and Touting Afreeca TV as some sort of emotional entity that knows only compassion and love.
As long as we establish the fact that it is not, then we have nothing to argue about. I'll wait until Blizzard gives more of their stance, and you can go join the twitter hashtag crew and march to Anaheim to demonstrate your love and stuff. (actually though that could be cool) Capiche?
Actually, we do, but off topic, so I'll cut it short. If a criminal funded something with illegal money, no matter how special it is to me, regardless of how many decades I've been in love with it, I cannot accept that money, nor the criminal. Dirty money should not be involved in the scene any longer.
On January 21 2018 22:15 _Animus_ wrote: BW is dead. Afreeca makes money from BW streamers, Blizzard want these money, and they want to get on plus from what they put into the remastered version, thats all. Korean ex-progamers seeing that starcraft remastered is sinking ship and they switched to streaming other games - so now there is not enough money from bw fans to afreeca and afreeca cant fund blizzard for tournament fees. That uncertain environment pushes away any potential sponsors. There is no coming back, even with ASL 5 and ATB started, there is no future for profesional Broodwar. Once sponsors and players lost motivation and interest you cant expect a different outcome.
Although this is my favorite game I will never buy remastered version, i play at iccup and enjoy it very much. Blizzard dont deserve my money. As the only good thing they do for broodwar is to release the classic game which i own legally already.
If you are talking about 1.16.1 it should be free to dl on the Blizzard homepage
if i'm not mistaken, it's not 1.16.1 but the current version, just without MM and HD-Graphics. You still need a Blizzard Network Account or whatever that launcher is called.
On January 20 2018 04:34 RCCar wrote: Nice meme. Its still business. Just that Afreeca has invested too much into SCBW to back out now. They used to almost exclusively have BW streamers and capitalized on their monopoly. Now, BW is getting less popular in Korea, old progamers are starting to play PUBG, and many of them are simultaneously broadcasting to youtube and twitch, ultimately better optimized platforms. Afreeca tried to regulate the migration, but came under heavy fire and had to give up. They aren't getting back what they invested into BW, and they are too late to jump on the PUBG progaming train, so they have no choice but to pretend they care about their bw streamers more than twitch or youtube does. One of the ways include ASL, which is why they're keeping it up for now though it is inevitably in the red. None of the parties involved are emotional entities, though they might try to fool people into thinking they are. Literally Soo-Gil says nothing of substance in his whole plea, just "hey, we're the good guys, if only Blizzard will give in, we can have this!" Vise versa holds true. In my opinion, with all the other greedy stunts he's pulled over the years, Afreeca are probably stubborn about something simple so they can protect their ego, and are resorting to mass rage since Blizzard won't take their shit.
I'm quoting this because it seems like one of the more levelheaded non-emotional responses in the thread. These are big companies, it's unlikely morality is a point of discussion aside from technical legality and "do we think this will piss people off to a degree that we're going to lose money over it?"
I don't completely understand how this is one of the more levelheaded responses when it is far more leaps than most people in this thread are making on top of just being on the other side of the coin in the blame game.
People are just wondering exactly how Blizzard can say they want to see more tournaments come up and flourish with the release of Remastered, and then charge such an incredible licensing fee that the most suitable company to do so isn't even able to. I think that is a legitimate concern and question that people have a right to ask, and is not inflammatory in any way or taking anything out of context. It also seems a lot less gratuitous than claiming the Afreeca CEO is on a burning ship and solely wants cheaper rights to keep his platform afloat. Oh, how malicious. How evil. Please charge them up the ass, cause how dare Afreeca want to survive as a company. OK good posts dudes.
I think if you tried to analyze the situation with a calmer head you will realize that the post isn't saying afreeca is evil, just that they never had the community's best interest in mind unlike what many posters are wont to believe here. ngl I've seen this crap over and over again in TL since about 2010, where one good gesture towards the game overshadows every other crap they do. Happened with Sonic, happened with the federation, happening with Soo-gil. It truly isn't that hard of a concept to grasp. Nobody is an angel, that doesn't make them the devil either. Its just business.
Four top quality tournaments and a streaming platform for top pros is more than just "one good gesture". I don't presume to speak for the entire community's best interest, but I think a lot of us just want to see BW as an e-sport like it was in the Kespa days. Afreeca has given us a lot in that direction. Activision-Blizzard has not contributed anything to that, and has even actively got in the way. This isn't a symmetrical deal.
Streaming platform that actively seeked to ban them for streaming on other platforms hmmm.... Yeah totally great. Only the best interests of the players in mind. Afreeca must only be doing great stuff for the scene. I understand the "I just want a tournament, whoever is stopping it just give in and let it happen ree" mindset, since the time for SCBW is going away quickly, but at the same time, holy crap its getting overemotional and childish with no other research nor information in play. Twitter accounts and hashtags? What is this witch hunt off of one side's word?
You do realize that there is clear distinction between attempting monopoly at something, and threatening to end something without plans to replace that content?
AfreecaTV may be untrustworthy in a whole lot of senses but the one thing they could be counted on was to be the lone successful host of competitive and casual Brood War after MBC Game got shut down, and Ongamenet abandoned their decade long legacy with tears from the casters and cringe-worthy Starcraft 2 promotion from Mike Morhaime. Sonic, was a criminal, but a criminal who supported Brood War with his illegal earnings. See my drift here? Here you are focusing on who is more unwholesome between the likes of AfreecaTV and Blizzard, when the main point of focus for many is the fact that the survival of competitive Brood War is at risk.
If AfreecaTV abandons competitive Brood War, what guarantees do we have of competitive Brood War thriving more than ever after being freed from the shackles of AfreecaTV? Let us suppose that Blizzard is completely in the right once further information gets exposed. Does that change the fact that AfreecaTV is struggling to host competitive Brood War due to Blizzard's policies, and how likely it is for nobody to play the role of AfreecaTV for competitive Brood War should AfreecaTV abandon competitive Brood War rather than comply to Blizzard's demands? What good comes out of Blizzard being in the right, and AfreecaTV being in the wrong, if in the end that means competitive Brood War gets held back?
There's nothing more important to me than competitive Brood War being healthy. Unless Blizzard has plans to provide something of substance in place of what they are threatening to remove, they are accountable for what might happen. No amount of pointing fingers towards the flaws of AfreecaTV will change that fact. For all their imperfections, AfreecaTV has been championing Brood War as their premium content for years on end. That, to me, is more important than finding out whether Blizzard is rightful in their actions to stop ASL from taking place. Blizzard can be stopping ASL to find the solution for world peace for all I care. The ends never justify the means if it means the destruction of competitive Brood War. That is the reason for the outrage.
Tell me with a straight face that competitive Brood War will never will get hurt by Blizzard, and this has been all a misunderstanding due to lack of relevant information. Please convince me that this is all a part of Blizzard's plan to make competitive Brood War greater than ever. Placate my over-emotional outbursts with factual evidence of how AfreecaTV isn't vital for the continuation of competitive Brood War, and how there is 100% full-proof guarantee of competitive Brood War being safe from harm should this feud between Blizzard and AfreecaTV turn out for the worst.
Until then, give me a break with that condescending tone of telling people to stop being emotional over something they truly are concerned over, just because you can afford to move on should the worst happen.
Obviously, people don't want BW leagues to end here, and in their desperation for this game they lash out against Blizzard with no substance. #Helporstandaside <- does this hashtag seem like a calm, logical manner in which the main point of focus is survival of BW? It looks to me like just another #BlizzardSux hashtag that you see on every single Facebook post they make.
Just as many are stating the shift be towards the game, not the company, but still, there are a substantial amount of people that would like to close their eyes and ears and shout what they want to. I just want those people to know that they aren't necessarily saying the right stuff. I'm looking at the many one liners going "Yeah fuck Blizzard I never liked them." and Touting Afreeca TV as some sort of emotional entity that knows only compassion and love.
As long as we establish the fact that it is not, then we have nothing to argue about. I'll wait until Blizzard gives more of their stance, and you can go join the twitter hashtag crew and march to Anaheim to demonstrate your love and stuff. (actually though that could be cool) Capiche?
Actually, we do, but off topic, so I'll cut it short. If a criminal funded something with illegal money, no matter how special it is to me, regardless of how many decades I've been in love with it, I cannot accept that money, nor the criminal. Dirty money should not be involved in the scene any longer.
Throw away your phones immediately. The cobalt that is used in your batteries are likely to mined by those abusing child labour. Abandon everything that you own that has been created through the illegal suffering of others. Zero tolerance versus illegal activities is your code is it not? Do your part to stay true to your own code.
Blind hatred towards Blizzard may not do jack shit. It's not like we have much leverage here, Blizzard have always been the ones with all the power. That has been the case time and time again. What Blizzard has to say over this matter, and how much information they choose to reveal might clarify matters, and that alone might be to your satisfaction.
AfreecaTV have been hosting competitive Brood War just fine before Blizzard came along, and they have time and time again expressed frustrations over how much more difficult it has been to host tournaments due to Blizzard. While the issue of exactly how and why Blizzard's involvement caused this situation may interest you, others are livid over the potential destruction of competitive Brood War. Your fixation over Blizzard's image being unfairly tainted is your own agenda, as is the fury of Brood War fans who do not want competitive Brood War to end. No matter how beautifully Blizzard explains their reasoning for their actions, it does not do me any good at all if all that is done to explain why they had no choice but to end ASL Season 5.
It is your prerogative to taunt people for caring about competitive Brood War more than you do. However, I personally would placate people terrified and devastated over the potential loss of something they care for deeply by showing convincing facts to show why they shouldn't to so worried, or if you have nothing of substance to offer, by just showing some basic empathy and kindness in the face of tremendous hurt and suffering.
Right now you're just being a mean spirited and doing the very thing you're attempting to halt. Some people care for the game, they truly do. I hope nobody is as condescending to you when the thing that you care for has its very existence threatened. It's easy to stay nonchalant when you personally wouldn't be devastated by what could happen. Pointing that fact out to those who would be? Perhaps do it with a little more tact if you have nothing of substance to offer.
On January 21 2018 03:53 FlaShFTW wrote: So here are the actual facts and feel free to contend with some of these but this is how I've viewed everything thus far.
AfreecaTV has come out to say that Blizzard is difficult to work with and putting a lot of difficulty into getting the ASL5.
Blizzard has given no other opinion to state that this is true, nor that this is false. They have had radio silence on us and don't seem interested at all in trying to correct the record or defend themselves.
Therefore, people are more upset at Blizzard because of their lack of transparency into the situation. This on top of the fact that Blizzard has been historically a poor company to work with for these tournaments.
So what happens next? Well, the best way is to have Blizzard come out with their own statement regarding the situation, which is highly doubtful considering they haven't already and I'm not sure they even give a damn about our community. Regardless, right now we're stuck with no ASL5, and a pissed off community.
Thanks for wrapping it all up. I am getting lost in this waterfall. Very sad news for us.
On January 21 2018 05:41 sabas123 wrote: Why would do Blizzard want to do any of this? It makes no sense to shoot themselves in the foot with this, there surely must be another reason.
What is the current legal situation with regards to the Brood War broadcasting rights, does KeSPA still own them, did Blizzard regained all of the rights with release of SC:R. And if KeSPA has the rights for 1.16 but not SC:R, is Blizzard afraid of getting sued by KeSPA?
The activeness of BW directly hurt SC2's presence.
Let's face it, its a zero sum game for the games, despite what people will brainwash you to think otherwise.
Not really, ever since the split between BW and SC2 back in 2010 and 2012, it was pretty apparent BW fans wouldn't simply switch over.
On January 21 2018 05:41 sabas123 wrote: Why would do Blizzard want to do any of this? It makes no sense to shoot themselves in the foot with this, there surely must be another reason.
However, here's how the situation might be going down. Blizzard demands an exorbitant sum for licensing. Afreeca can't negotiate: either they pay, or Blizzard doesn't let them run the tournament. Even if Afreeca can produce the money, Blizzard can still say no while it decides what it wants to do. It doesn't actually hurt them anymore, because it's not like Afreeca can go get their Brood War from someone else. What if Blizzard is deciding whether it wants more money or not? What if Blizzard wants to renegotiate some of the terms of the contract - for example, making some SC2 advertisements in between each match? Or having Overwatch promotions somewhere? Force Afreeca to promote Overwatch outside of ASL - such as on their site, and to give those streamers preferential treatment somehow? There are a ton of possible reasons for why Blizzard would be stalling on their end, and not all of them involve them "shooting themselves in the foot" because they are the ones that hold the cards here.
Blizzard does unnecessarily lose money if they won't go ahead with this deal, considering it is totally free from their own investments. Even if their main focus is Overwatch, they won't converge all of their viewers to it no matter what they do, since a large chunk will most likely will just switch to LoL or something else. Financially speaking this stuff makes 0 sense for blizzard to not just give the green light.
On January 21 2018 03:53 FlaShFTW wrote: So here are the actual facts and feel free to contend with some of these but this is how I've viewed everything thus far.
AfreecaTV has come out to say that Blizzard is difficult to work with and putting a lot of difficulty into getting the ASL5.
Blizzard has given no other opinion to state that this is true, nor that this is false. They have had radio silence on us and don't seem interested at all in trying to correct the record or defend themselves.
Therefore, people are more upset at Blizzard because of their lack of transparency into the situation. This on top of the fact that Blizzard has been historically a poor company to work with for these tournaments.
So what happens next? Well, the best way is to have Blizzard come out with their own statement regarding the situation, which is highly doubtful considering they haven't already and I'm not sure they even give a damn about our community. Regardless, right now we're stuck with no ASL5, and a pissed off community.
Thanks for wrapping it all up. I am getting lost in this waterfall. Very sad news for us.
I wonder how actually big is SC community?
The foreign one is still quite small. Like I could get onto the ladder in USW and still get paired with the same opponent at the 1800-2000 mmr range because of how few people are actually playing. The Korean scene is much larger in comparison and if we really wanted to try to make some sort of push at Blizzard, we definitely need their help and support.
If you are talking about 1.16.1 it should be free to dl on the Blizzard homepage if i'm not mistaken, it's not 1.16.1 but the current version, just without MM and HD-Graphics. You still need a Blizzard Network Account or whatever that launcher is called.
Is this true? I'm thinking about switching back to 1.16 ... remastered has kinda been a train wreck honestly. My computer with fantastic specs doesn't even run remastered without framerate issues which basically handicaps me once I need to really kick macro into overdrive.
If you are talking about 1.16.1 it should be free to dl on the Blizzard homepage if i'm not mistaken, it's not 1.16.1 but the current version, just without MM and HD-Graphics. You still need a Blizzard Network Account or whatever that launcher is called.
Is this true? I'm thinking about switching back to 1.16 ... remastered has kinda been a train wreck honestly. My computer with fantastic specs doesn't even run remastered without framerate issues which basically handicaps me once I need to really kick macro into overdrive.
If I recall, not sure if this has changed, but on your Blizz Account on the forums you can register your copy of BW by way of the CD key to download a client, one that works with newer Windows versions and with out Blizz launcher. This might be an option if you have a copy handy, though I am not sure if it is feasible to use or if this is available now (I did it a few years ago).
Can't believe Blizzard is just saying nothing. Not even "we can't discuss this right now due to ongoing negotiation" or something like that. They really couldn't care less about the BW community.
On January 23 2018 04:11 Starlightsun wrote: Can't believe Blizzard is just saying nothing. Not even "we can't discuss this right now due to ongoing negotiation" or something like that. They really couldn't care less about the BW community.
Yes now would be a time to prove everyone wrong that is disillusioned with Blizzard.
On January 23 2018 04:11 Starlightsun wrote: Can't believe Blizzard is just saying nothing. Not even "we can't discuss this right now due to ongoing negotiation" or something like that. They really couldn't care less about the BW community.
It's not unlikely that Blizzard thinks the BW community is small enough to ignore. Also the whole "we'll win 'em back later" mentality. I wouldn't mind seeing something to the likes of the EA fiasco happening to Blizzard, just as a wake up call.
As long as the money keeps pouring in, though, what incentive do they have to really improve their character?
Empty Blizzcon opening ceremony, anyone? How cool would that be. No more fake Mike Morhaime applauses. Show us you care about who cared about you back in '98-'05 and maybe you'll deserve a packed Blizzcon and that $6 billion annual revenue stream.
On January 23 2018 04:11 Starlightsun wrote: Can't believe Blizzard is just saying nothing. Not even "we can't discuss this right now due to ongoing negotiation" or something like that. They really couldn't care less about the BW community.
It's not unlikely that Blizzard thinks the BW community is small enough to ignore. Also the whole "we'll win 'em back later" mentality. I wouldn't mind seeing something to the likes of the EA fiasco happening to Blizzard, just as a wake up call.
As long as the money keeps pouring in, though, what incentive do they have to really improve their character?
Empty Blizzcon opening ceremony, anyone? How cool would that be. No more fake Mike Morhaime applauses. Show us you care about who cared about you back in '98-'05 and maybe you'll deserve a packed Blizzcon and that $6 billion annual revenue stream.
On January 20 2018 22:11 B-royal wrote: Maybe it's time to get down and dirty.
1 ) Find loopholes in the law. Organize tournaments without any official prize money, and instead do a meaningless fake competition (a 100m dash, who knows...) straight after the actual tournament, and coincidentally have everyone finish in the respective places they had in the starcraft tournament.
On January 23 2018 04:11 Starlightsun wrote: Can't believe Blizzard is just saying nothing. Not even "we can't discuss this right now due to ongoing negotiation" or something like that. They really couldn't care less about the BW community.
what do you expect? blizzard has been on the decline for a very long time.
they can eat crow for all i care. their games are no longer must have's.
This is so fucking stupid. Their silence and negligence both are infuriating. I want to play the game and watch pros play tournaments. Just fucking let it happen.
On January 23 2018 03:47 BigFan wrote: Can any of the KR folks on here tell us what the KR community is doing? Do they have a similar thread over there? Reactions etc...?
On January 20 2018 04:44 SCC-Faust wrote: Yah, I tweeted to Blizz and made a post in the topic on the starcraft blizz.net forums. I mean, we're a small crowd, but if everyone can do the same, it would be a lot better than being upset or frustrated in this topic. If you're passionate about StarCraft like I am, turn that frustration into action imo.. and as people have said, we don't really know the full situation, so instead of throwing insults or fire, instead just let Blizz know the positive experiences the pro BW scene has on you etc
I don't actually know if it will do anything, but there is really no reason not to hit up twitter/facebook/blizz forums and just say something along the lines of that. Something that evokes feelings in you personally. At worst, nothing happens, but you leave a positive message that steps on no feet, and best, maybe it will inspire Blizzard and Afreeca to work something out.
Time to make a Twitter-account! If there was ever a reason to make, this would be it.
This is not how to do tweet campaigning. As someone between pages 3-6 said, focus on the positive, so let's just be inquisitive for the time being, see if someone replies to "Is anyone @Blizzard_Ent looking into the Afreeca Starleague 5 situation? What's the holdup for starting the SC Brood War tournament?". @Starcraft for the first day, then switch around for @Activision and partners they have for Overwatch or Heroes tournaments (dunno Intel, Razer?, Red Bull.. the like). Also @afreecaTV_gl to see where they stand after a day or two. Don't forget to add gaming journalists now and then, @cynicalbrit @pcgamer @Polaris @Kotaku_UK @rockpapershot and many more.
But most important is to do them at the same time and regularly (they can even be automated a few times a day -- no idea how though). And every now and then tweeting a gif or a picture (they get shared far more often) is useful. Also, while at it, pictures of pink knitted hats from D.C. while we're at making the world a better place... (self-deprecating not cynical)
+Oh, and also if ignored for a couple of days hijack (without being d!cks or insulting people) hashtags @Blizzard_Ent is using, or do a tweet campaign/be annoying during another event. Where's poopfist420 btw?
On January 23 2018 03:47 BigFan wrote: Can any of the KR folks on here tell us what the KR community is doing? Do they have a similar thread over there? Reactions etc...?
This isn't even front page news in the KR community. There were some very short threads on Ygosu, but none remain on the front page.
That said, we shouldn't look to the Korean forums for leadership or action on this issue. 99% of Ygosu BW activity is schizophrenic shxt-posting and trolling.
We should see if we can put a petition together. Blizzard really needs to answer these indirect allegations put forth by Afreeca's CEO. #SpeakUpBlizzard
Sigh very disappointed in Blizzard. SCR was all false hope, remastered the game to give us an impression they cared for the community but behind the scenes killing it by charging exorbitant licensing fees.
Seriously Blizzard how much money do you expect from SCR anyway? SC2 is on the decline it's not like SCR is going to make much of a difference? They should just f off and focus on overwatch instead, leave the BW community alone.
I don't understand. There are smaller tournaments like the foreign ones and Afreeca sponsored DanJJING star leagues, those do not pay 100k dollar fees to Blizzard now do they? Why would ASL need to pay? What am I missing here?
The issue is intellectual property laws. You can't blame Blizzard for trying to make as much money as they can by taking advantage of them. The concept of IP is nonsense and everything to do with it needs to be repealed. If you're interested in learning more about how IP laws have hurt progress and humanity in general since their inception, you can read (for free online, of course) Against Intellectual Monopoly.
On January 20 2018 04:44 SCC-Faust wrote: Yah, I tweeted to Blizz and made a post in the topic on the starcraft blizz.net forums. I mean, we're a small crowd, but if everyone can do the same, it would be a lot better than being upset or frustrated in this topic. If you're passionate about StarCraft like I am, turn that frustration into action imo.. and as people have said, we don't really know the full situation, so instead of throwing insults or fire, instead just let Blizz know the positive experiences the pro BW scene has on you etc
I don't actually know if it will do anything, but there is really no reason not to hit up twitter/facebook/blizz forums and just say something along the lines of that. Something that evokes feelings in you personally. At worst, nothing happens, but you leave a positive message that steps on no feet, and best, maybe it will inspire Blizzard and Afreeca to work something out.
Time to make a Twitter-account! If there was ever a reason to make, this would be it.
This is not how to do tweet campaigning. As someone between pages 3-6 said, focus on the positive, so let's just be inquisitive for the time being, see if someone replies to "Is anyone @Blizzard_Ent looking into the Afreeca Starleague 5 situation? What's the holdup for starting the SC Brood War tournament?". @Starcraft for the first day, then switch around for @Activision and partners they have for Overwatch or Heroes tournaments (dunno Intel, Razer?, Red Bull.. the like). Also @afreecaTV_gl to see where they stand after a day or two. Don't forget to add gaming journalists now and then, @cynicalbrit @pcgamer @Polaris @Kotaku_UK @rockpapershot and many more.
But most important is to do them at the same time and regularly (they can even be automated a few times a day -- no idea how though). And every now and then tweeting a gif or a picture (they get shared far more often) is useful. Also, while at it, pictures of pink knitted hats from D.C. while we're at making the world a better place... (self-deprecating not cynical)
I guess I'm repeating myself, but I do believe that if any outcry isn't focused/gets visibility by happening at the same time it won't matter. In my humble opinion, and assuming people are highly passionate about BW as I keep reading, also asking business partners and g-journalists the slightly uncomfortable questions (in Twitter by simply adding @s) might have the highest impact. Coordinate with a streamer/GSL for a time to drop a few lines?
On January 24 2018 17:41 RoyalMTGO wrote: The issue is intellectual property laws. You can't blame Blizzard for trying to make as much money as they can by taking advantage of them. The concept of IP is nonsense and everything to do with it needs to be repealed. If you're interested in learning more about how IP laws have hurt progress and humanity in general since their inception, you can read (for free online, of course) Against Intellectual Monopoly.
Disagree here trying to milk as much money out of a product is a strategy
But so is supporting you’re product to make it better more viewed whatever Just make scr grow and expand
Both strategies can be used just that for scr /scbw the milking the product is hurtfull in the long term to the fans the product pro gaming blizzards image sales for scr.
On January 24 2018 17:41 RoyalMTGO wrote: The issue is intellectual property laws. You can't blame Blizzard for trying to make as much money as they can by taking advantage of them. The concept of IP is nonsense and everything to do with it needs to be repealed. If you're interested in learning more about how IP laws have hurt progress and humanity in general since their inception, you can read (for free online, of course) Against Intellectual Monopoly.
Of course I can. They could also support their game and use it as good pr. If blizzard is that cool company that supports it's 20 year old game, I'm more inclined to buy future products from them. If blizzard tries to kill it's own game's scene several times, I don't see any reason to buy their new games.
The fact that blizzard isn't even responding is so sad. I guess they just want to kill BW off for good. I feel bad for the devs working on remastered. It must suck to spent so much time on something only so that your superiors can kill it off.
I agree 100% about IP laws being nonsense/bullshit designed to steal money on a large scale and block innovation or free culture, enforcing power of the most wealthy against all others increasing inequality etc, but I also have no problem blaming blizzard 100% for their related actions as well
If anything Blizzard should allow ASL5 because it allows non-Koreans to learn so much from it. The games were amazing in that I learned things left and right. And it had an amazing English cast. All together it is a bad thing for foreign broodwar to disallow ASL5.
I don't understand. There are smaller tournaments like the foreign ones and Afreeca sponsored DanJJING star leagues, those do not pay 100k dollar fees to Blizzard now do they? Why would ASL need to pay? What am I missing here?
When you exceed a certain prize pool threshold (like 5000$+ or so), you have to ask for permission to hold a tour. I remember, when they introduced that (5 or so years ago), they said something along the lines it is just supposed to be a pro forma act with a 1$ dollar fee at the time so that their IP rights are acknowledged.
for permission...? yeah that locks any larger scale proscene into control of the permission giver.. i dont know what else to say that i'm opposed to this, something somewhat reasonable in my mind would be something that says they can ask for a small %, like 5% of the prize pool, but even that is weird because that's the company taking money out of dedicated players doing amazing stuff that promotes their game, so yeah they should pretty much leave it alone all things considered or give money to support it if they want
but what law actually says they can impose their permission lock, is there a law that says that I'm curious wtf law applies here lol. I mean is this a korean law, or a american law, or what... ?_?
I mean who deserves to tax some money off these tourneys seriously, maybe the actual developers of the game but even they would probably say that'd be weird for them to ask don't you think imo, you bought the game, you can do what you want with it...
On January 24 2018 17:41 RoyalMTGO wrote: The issue is intellectual property laws. You can't blame Blizzard for trying to make as much money as they can by taking advantage of them. The concept of IP is nonsense and everything to do with it needs to be repealed. If you're interested in learning more about how IP laws have hurt progress and humanity in general since their inception, you can read (for free online, of course) Against Intellectual Monopoly.
Of course I can. They could also support their game and use it as good pr. If blizzard is that cool company that supports it's 20 year old game, I'm more inclined to buy future products from them. If blizzard tries to kill it's own game's scene several times, I don't see any reason to buy their new games.
The fact that blizzard isn't even responding is so sad. I guess they just want to kill BW off for good. I feel bad for the devs working on remastered. It must suck to spent so much time on something only so that your superiors can kill it off.
Not to sound like a broken record, but there was no indication that SC:R was an attempt to re-establish a vibrant scene. Not that I could tell, anyway. For all we know, it was an easy way to make a good deal of money. At $15 per copy, that's a lot of moola for a 20 year old game. I bought one for myself and gifted 2 copies to friends.
Anything that was said in interviews about bringing the game back could easily have been marketing to sell more copies--as much as we all hoped it would come with a genuine effort not just to keep the fire burning, but set it ablaze. It's sad to imagine, but it makes a good deal of sense. Especially from what we know about Blizzard, these days (Hearthstone, Overwatch having become Overwatch and not Titan, and an in-general hardcore approach to business and "the bottom line" over everything else. "big company stakeholder" shit is designed simply to wring all the money out of something and then move to the next thing. Cold, calculated, unimaginitive, ruthless--not the company that made Brood War and Diablo 2). Releasing SC:Remastered coinciding with an ASL and English casters everyone loves, Day9 making a bunch of content--so much hyyyyype!!!! 6 months later, though: skid marks.
And it's hard for me to buy the argument that Brood War competes with SC2. Aside from a few players who play both games, like Ret, they have their separate player bases that don't cross-pollinate. You have your BW players--especially the Koreans--and you have your SC2 players. There's very little deciding in what one wants to go all-in. Because you can only practice one of the two games enough to compete at the highest level, obviously. But this is such a minor issue, it shouldn't be a real consideration. And if this is at all an attempt to get more pros to switch back to SC2 who have since committed to BW, that's a whole other big problem that I don't think will work out for Blizzard at all in the long run.
At the end of the day, a lack of a statement from Blizzard on top of what we already assume to be happening behind the curtain isn't merely deeply upsetting; it's completely warping my view of the legacy of Blizzard as a company. A possible overreaction, but color me a bitter old fan of their Gen1 and Gen2 games and corporate philosophy.
It's about Overwatch. You can't buy loot crates in SCR. New SCR players won't buy Overwatch, won't buy crates.
Afreeca should do everything they can to get around the rules. If the max prize pool they can have is $5000 then they should devise a system of tournaments instead of just one. Winning one tournament gives that prize money, and $1 goes to Bli*****, and the top 4 qualify into the next tournament, which also has a $5000 prize pool, and another $1 to B******d.
Then the scene could still have high level games, the prize money would be more distributed lower into the ranks instead of just the top 3 get everything, due to the multiple tournament setup. It's possible, why not go this way?
Think of it like Code A and Code S, or the Premier League.
Do you really think Blizzard is charging a $1 fee for an individual tournament of prize pool of $5000, that Afreeca has trouble paying $1, the CEO of Afreeca would stake his reputation on that he wants public pressure on Blizzard to reduce that $1 fee.
Alternatively ASL5 should be a series of tournaments so that Afreeca can avoid a $1 fee. That $1 fee is such a huge amount that ASL5 cannot begin! That huge barrier to ASL5 that ONE DOLLAR exists just to tempt people away from Broodwar and into the sole alternative game in the world, Overwatch where they will now spend money on lootboxes. Are you freaking serious? My word, the crazy things people believe in this forum and the strange places that belief will take them.
On January 25 2018 04:42 hp.Shell wrote: It's about Overwatch. You can't buy loot crates in SCR. New SCR players won't buy Overwatch, won't buy crates.
Tbh, the BW community would probably cry the loudest if suddenly lootboxes with cosmetic skins would be introduced into the game and how it ruins it ^^.
On January 25 2018 04:42 hp.Shell wrote: It's about Overwatch. You can't buy loot crates in SCR. New SCR players won't buy Overwatch, won't buy crates.
Tbh, the BW community would probably cry the loudest if suddenly lootboxes with cosmetic skins would be introduced into the game and how it ruins it ^^.
Nice how you constantly bash BW community, and have a history of posts full of rethorical shit, but it is fashionable now come from SC2 forums to troll here. Gj.
On January 25 2018 04:42 hp.Shell wrote: It's about Overwatch. You can't buy loot crates in SCR. New SCR players won't buy Overwatch, won't buy crates.
Tbh, the BW community would probably cry the loudest if suddenly lootboxes with cosmetic skins would be introduced into the game and how it ruins it ^^.
I don't think you read this forum at all. When people were discussing what would be part of SC:R before release, a lot of people didn't mind if cosmetic skins would be part of it. In fact, the reception of the pre-order skins was good and the majority of people that posted in the SC:R thread liked them. Hope this helps ^^.
On January 25 2018 04:42 hp.Shell wrote: It's about Overwatch. You can't buy loot crates in SCR. New SCR players won't buy Overwatch, won't buy crates.
Tbh, the BW community would probably cry the loudest if suddenly lootboxes with cosmetic skins would be introduced into the game and how it ruins it ^^.
Nice how you constantly bash BW community, and have a history of posts full of rethorical shit, but it is fashionable now come from SC2 forums to troll here. Gj.
Just ignore such people, don't stoop to their level. There is no cure for forum cancer.
***CALL TO ARMS*** https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20760966718 post i made to OPPRESS blizzard we need an army to make a difference. EVERY VOICE MATTERS. Please go post just tell them how you feel and like comments spread the word. the time is now we are the resistance. Never back down! Never Surrender! ***CALL TO ARMS*** need 100 more post keep up the work BroodWar will survive!!!!
On January 25 2018 18:16 JacktheTerr wrote: ***CALL TO ARMS*** https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20760966718 post i made to OPPRESS blizzard we need an army to make a difference. EVERY VOICE MATTERS. Please go post just tell them how you feel and like comments spread the word. the time is now we are the resistance. Never back down! Never Surrender! ***CALL TO ARMS*** need 100 more post keep up the work BroodWar will survive!!!!
is this post real ? Posted by JacktheTerr I've exchanged correspondence with Mike Morhaime and he assured me good news in the near future. Hopefully it's very near. Thanks so much for the support comrades. Long live Aiur!!!
On January 25 2018 18:16 JacktheTerr wrote: ***CALL TO ARMS*** https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20760966718 post i made to OPPRESS blizzard we need an army to make a difference. EVERY VOICE MATTERS. Please go post just tell them how you feel and like comments spread the word. the time is now we are the resistance. Never back down! Never Surrender! ***CALL TO ARMS*** need 100 more post keep up the work BroodWar will survive!!!!
is this post real ? Posted by JacktheTerr I've exchanged correspondence with Mike Morhaime and he assured me good news in the near future. Hopefully it's very near. Thanks so much for the support comrades. Long live Aiur!!!
Personally I doubt that Mike Morhaime is corresponding with fans.
On January 26 2018 01:16 A.Alm wrote: wow so many american feels rlx
Replace "America" with any country and I'd still post the same thing. No one here cares about your strong political opinions on a StarCraft forum in a topic about Afreeca/Blizzard negotiations.
On January 25 2018 18:16 JacktheTerr wrote: ***CALL TO ARMS*** https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20760966718 post i made to OPPRESS blizzard we need an army to make a difference. EVERY VOICE MATTERS. Please go post just tell them how you feel and like comments spread the word. the time is now we are the resistance. Never back down! Never Surrender! ***CALL TO ARMS*** need 100 more post keep up the work BroodWar will survive!!!!
is this post real ? Posted by JacktheTerr I've exchanged correspondence with Mike Morhaime and he assured me good news in the near future. Hopefully it's very near. Thanks so much for the support comrades. Long live Aiur!!!
Yeah wtf is this post? Appears to be the same account. Did someone really hack his account just to say that or did he forget what he posted???
On January 25 2018 18:16 JacktheTerr wrote: ***CALL TO ARMS*** https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20760966718 post i made to OPPRESS blizzard we need an army to make a difference. EVERY VOICE MATTERS. Please go post just tell them how you feel and like comments spread the word. the time is now we are the resistance. Never back down! Never Surrender! ***CALL TO ARMS*** need 100 more post keep up the work BroodWar will survive!!!!
is this post real ? Posted by JacktheTerr I've exchanged correspondence with Mike Morhaime and he assured me good news in the near future. Hopefully it's very near. Thanks so much for the support comrades. Long live Aiur!!!
Personally I doubt that Mike Morhaime is corresponding with fans.
Yeah Eonzerg. How do you know it is not a fake account? They usually are. No offense.
The Starcraft fans are ready. The organizers and pros are ready. What's the holdup? #saveASL5 #Blizzard
Will that help?
Making your voice heard is important, but it’s questionable whether any of this will help or if blizzard pr relays our outrage to business development.
On January 25 2018 18:16 JacktheTerr wrote: ***CALL TO ARMS*** https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20760966718 post i made to OPPRESS blizzard we need an army to make a difference. EVERY VOICE MATTERS. Please go post just tell them how you feel and like comments spread the word. the time is now we are the resistance. Never back down! Never Surrender! ***CALL TO ARMS*** need 100 more post keep up the work BroodWar will survive!!!!
is this post real ? Posted by JacktheTerr I've exchanged correspondence with Mike Morhaime and he assured me good news in the near future. Hopefully it's very near. Thanks so much for the support comrades. Long live Aiur!!!
Yes it is real. Mike is a cool guy just like you and me. when your phone tells you you got a message do you not check it? We all have been hearing a vague February and im thinking first week finger crossed. asl 5 gonna be sick and I think blizzard will be happy enough to not impede ATBs too :D
"First – apologies for the delay on commenting on this. We wanted to conduct our own investigation into the context/authenticity of the original post before jumping in, and strangely it has proven more difficult than we expected. We note that the post was deleted almost as soon as it was posted. Frankly, it also caught us a little off guard, as we and Afreeca have been finalizing plans for SCR esports before, during, and after that confusing post.
So, we’re still trying to get to the bottom of this issue, but what we can say is, we are fully committed to SCR as we always have been, and to SCR esports. Nothing has changed in that department, and we continue to engage in dialogue with Afreeca so we can all get back to being excited about an ASL S5!"
Doesn't really tell us anything, but a blue post finally acknowledged this clusterfuck on battle.net forums.
On January 26 2018 07:05 MrUniverse wrote: Can TL staff member PLEASE inform Artosis, Tasteless, Day9, InControl, TotalBiscuit, etc. of what's happening?
Are they too busy living in their multi millionaire lifestyle to care?
They care dude, but they have a business relationship with Blizzard, and no one truly knows what is going on. It would be very unprofessional of them to make some sort of public statement when everything is up in the air. I understand your sentiment, but I completely understand why they haven't been vocal about it.
On January 26 2018 07:05 MrUniverse wrote: Can TL staff member PLEASE inform Artosis, Tasteless, Day9, InControl, TotalBiscuit, etc. of what's happening?
Are they too busy living in their multi millionaire lifestyle to care?
They care dude, but they have a business relationship with Blizzard, and no one truly knows what is going on. It would be very unprofessional of them to make some sort of public statement when everything is up in the air. I understand your sentiment, but I completely understand why they haven't been vocal about it.
They don't have to make a definite statement. Just make their voice heard and demand information. A simple "the community is confused, please clear things up" would be enough in my eyes.
Tasteless was saying in www.twitch.tv/artosis chat that they are not allowed to comment on anything related to asl5 and blizzard. but we won a battle today, Blizzard acknowledges our blight. We will NOT go quietly into that goodnight, we will not vanish without a fight. BW will live on. BW will survive. today we celebrate our independence day. er i mean asl 5 and stuff
Some of the response to this thread and situation lead me to believe that SC1 is a community of 14 year olds, not adults that would understand why these things are difficult for blizzard to comment on. If that's true, then there's hope for Brood War because there seem to be plenty of young players.
First – apologies for the delay on commenting on this. We wanted to conduct our own investigation into the context/authenticity of the original post before jumping in, and strangely it has proven more difficult than we expected. We note that the post was deleted almost as soon as it was posted. Frankly, it also caught us a little off guard, as we and Afreeca have been finalizing plans for SCR esports before, during, and after that confusing post.
So, we’re still trying to get to the bottom of this issue, but what we can say is, we are fully committed to SCR as we always have been, and to SCR esports. Nothing has changed in that department, and we continue to engage in dialogue with Afreeca so we can all get back to being excited about an ASL S5!
First – apologies for the delay on commenting on this. We wanted to conduct our own investigation into the context/authenticity of the original post before jumping in, and strangely it has proven more difficult than we expected. We note that the post was deleted almost as soon as it was posted. Frankly, it also caught us a little off guard, as we and Afreeca have been finalizing plans for SCR esports before, during, and after that confusing post.
So, we’re still trying to get to the bottom of this issue, but what we can say is, we are fully committed to SCR as we always have been, and to SCR esports. Nothing has changed in that department, and we continue to engage in dialogue with Afreeca so we can all get back to being excited about an ASL S5!
First – apologies for the delay on commenting on this. We wanted to conduct our own investigation into the context/authenticity of the original post before jumping in, and strangely it has proven more difficult than we expected. We note that the post was deleted almost as soon as it was posted. Frankly, it also caught us a little off guard, as we and Afreeca have been finalizing plans for SCR esports before, during, and after that confusing post.
So, we’re still trying to get to the bottom of this issue, but what we can say is, we are fully committed to SCR as we always have been, and to SCR esports. Nothing has changed in that department, and we continue to engage in dialogue with Afreeca so we can all get back to being excited about an ASL S5!
Whole load of nothing for 2 paragraphs.
What would you expect? A multi billion dollar company is not going to wage a social media war that they stand little chance of winning.
First – apologies for the delay on commenting on this. We wanted to conduct our own investigation into the context/authenticity of the original post before jumping in, and strangely it has proven more difficult than we expected. We note that the post was deleted almost as soon as it was posted. Frankly, it also caught us a little off guard, as we and Afreeca have been finalizing plans for SCR esports before, during, and after that confusing post.
So, we’re still trying to get to the bottom of this issue, but what we can say is, we are fully committed to SCR as we always have been, and to SCR esports. Nothing has changed in that department, and we continue to engage in dialogue with Afreeca so we can all get back to being excited about an ASL S5!
Whole load of nothing for 2 paragraphs.
Plus, this was buried in there:
"we and Afreeca have been finalizing plans for SCR esports before, during, and after that confusing post."
So that's something. Maybe instead of this stupid year by year license they're working out a multi year partnership with team battles and whatnot.
i mean, they gave a statement and thats good, but that statement is pretty much saying, that they couldn't seal the deal yet, right? So it still is the cause for the delay.
BTW. wasn't there some statement a month or so ago, that said, that ASL5 will start in February and also stream the qualification matches this time?
First – apologies for the delay on commenting on this. We wanted to conduct our own investigation into the context/authenticity of the original post before jumping in, and strangely it has proven more difficult than we expected. We note that the post was deleted almost as soon as it was posted. Frankly, it also caught us a little off guard, as we and Afreeca have been finalizing plans for SCR esports before, during, and after that confusing post.
So, we’re still trying to get to the bottom of this issue, but what we can say is, we are fully committed to SCR as we always have been, and to SCR esports. Nothing has changed in that department, and we continue to engage in dialogue with Afreeca so we can all get back to being excited about an ASL S5!
Whole load of nothing for 2 paragraphs.
Plus, this was buried in there:
"we and Afreeca have been finalizing plans for SCR esports before, during, and after that confusing post."
So that's something. Maybe instead of this stupid year by year license they're working out a multi year partnership with team battles and whatnot.
Wow. Blizzard has blessed us with the message that they are in negotiations with AfreecaTV regarding ATB and ASL, leagues that would have both been under way without Blizzard's interventions. What a relief, now that Blizzard can go back to business without us little ants pestering them about wanting back what we had before.
Unless Blizzard wants to add more than what was there for competitive Brood War, and the all mighty AfreecaTV has been the ones to hold that vision back, we're back to square one with thumbs up our asses while Blizzard and AfreecaTV do their little dance of how much Blizzard is owed for others using their intellectual property.
Will AfreecaTV take the financial hit and man up to their words of going in the red for competitive Brood War? Will Blizzard lower their fees and actually deliver on their promise on being fully committed to SCR e-Sports? Find out next week on fuck-all competitive Brood War, where it's all speculation, and the possibilities are endless! Will the negotiations be extended? Will we have a multi-year partnership? Will it all come crashing down like it did before?
Yes. This is exactly what the Brood War community desired. Empty promises and speculation over the end-results while zero competitive Brood War takes place.
^^^and this is why I’m surprised blizzard even bothered to make a statement. Because nothing short of announcing that they struck a deal would be good enough for most fans. Even if they announced that people would still find a way to be annoyed with them.
On January 26 2018 11:44 PorkSoda wrote: ^^^and this is why I’m surprised blizzard even bothered to make a statement. Because nothing short of announcing that they struck a deal would be good enough for most fans. Even if they announced that people would still find a way to be annoyed with them.
you are not annoyed by blizzards course of action?
On January 26 2018 11:44 PorkSoda wrote: ^^^and this is why I’m surprised blizzard even bothered to make a statement. Because nothing short of announcing that they struck a deal would be good enough for most fans. Even if they announced that people would still find a way to be annoyed with them.
Imagine that, a simple confirmation that foundations of competitive Brood War will carry on existing without any difficulties being the baseline expectations for people on a Brood War community. Nevermind ATB being postponed indefinitely and ASL Season 5 being delayed, let us just wait and assume by the grace of Blizzard that all those tournaments will take place just like before, and even if they don't, well it isn't our place to question Blizzard and their intentions.
You may sit there and stay bemused while competitive Brood War is being held back while Blizzard and AfreecaTV argue over how much control and finances Blizzard believe themselves to be entitled to (the lengths of which Blizzard have been willing to take that conflict have been shown in the past), I believe there are those who want nothing more than competitive Brood War being back on schedule. So spare me your personal insight on what makes Blizzard tick and how their public image has been affected by the current status quo, because I'm not here for Blizzard's policies, I go on this site for competitive Brood War. That is the only reason I'm on this site.
On January 26 2018 11:44 PorkSoda wrote: ^^^and this is why I’m surprised blizzard even bothered to make a statement. Because nothing short of announcing that they struck a deal would be good enough for most fans. Even if they announced that people would still find a way to be annoyed with them.
you are not annoyed by blizzards course of action?
I’m extremely annoyed that they’re having trouble striking a deal but I also know that there’s probably another side to this story. As others have mentioned, professional gaming in Korea has been an extremely shady, often corrupt, industry. I want ASL5 as bad as anyone, but I’m not going to rush to judgement.
On January 26 2018 11:44 PorkSoda wrote: ^^^and this is why I’m surprised blizzard even bothered to make a statement. Because nothing short of announcing that they struck a deal would be good enough for most fans. Even if they announced that people would still find a way to be annoyed with them.
you are not annoyed by blizzards course of action?
I’m extremely annoyed that they’re having trouble striking a deal but I also know that there’s probably another side to this story. As others have mentioned, professional gaming in Korea has been an extremely shady, often corrupt, industry. I want ASL5 as bad as anyone, but I’m not going to rush to judgement.
You talk as if Blizzard were the ones organizing and promoting competitive Brood War for the past few years, and it's been other shady, often corrupt companies holding them back from realizing their dream of competitive Brood War prospering beyond our wildest imaginations. You would be the kind of guy to be annoyed at Blizzard finding trouble to striking a deal, rather than being annoyed that competitive Brood War is being held back.
Like it or not, AfreecaTV has been hosting competitive Brood War just fine without Blizzard's assistance or their need to strike deals until Blizzard decided to be a little more hands on. Further more, I have no doubt that they have indulged in shady affairs like any company in existence has. The important thing is that competitive Brood War has been going on. I don't care about AfreecaTV's finances or their shady policies, and if the end result is the continuation of competitive Brood War, that's good enough for me.
You claim to be as invested in the continuation of competitive Brood War more than anybody else, but all your words speak contrary to that statement. All your posts have been concerned more about Blizzard more than anything else. What their public perception may be. What other companies are doing to inconvenience them. What their motives and best course of action would be. Barely a single sentence about the actual status of competitive Brood War, and yet here you are pretending to want the continuation of competitive Brood War as bad as anyone else.
Their statement didn't really say much besides the original Afreeca post was deleted and things are just moving at some pace. I fail to see their dedication when it's been about a week since the original message was posted and we just got a response now. I also find it really odd that the Afreeca CEO would go to the trouble of writing a message to try and get ASL5 started if there wasn't something going on behind the scene.
Considering Blizzard's history with the scene, I would not be surprised if they are the ones holding it up and no one should be. It's a shame really, remastered has been one of the biggest and most disappointing news for the community too. All we really wanted was for BW to get compatibility fixes (OS, port forwarding, that color fix etc...) so that new folks will at least be able to try it without having to jump through many hoops and things would've been fine and dandy with ASL, ATB etc... all running on time. Instead, we got a product that didn't deliver on its promises with lots of bugs, worse features than it's predecessor (SD anyone?) and the korean scene is at stake once again, sigh.
I only hope that BW comes out of this unscathed...
The post literally says nothing. It's just a red herring for us to go chase after while they provide no REAL update on the situation. Typical PR move with no substance behind it.
On January 26 2018 11:44 PorkSoda wrote: ^^^and this is why I’m surprised blizzard even bothered to make a statement. Because nothing short of announcing that they struck a deal would be good enough for most fans. Even if they announced that people would still find a way to be annoyed with them.
you are not annoyed by blizzards course of action?
I’m extremely annoyed that they’re having trouble striking a deal but I also know that there’s probably another side to this story. As others have mentioned, professional gaming in Korea has been an extremely shady, often corrupt, industry. I want ASL5 as bad as anyone, but I’m not going to rush to judgement.
You talk as if Blizzard were the ones organizing and promoting competitive Brood War for the past few years, and it's been other shady, often corrupt companies holding them back from realizing their dream of competitive Brood War prospering beyond our wildest imaginations. You would be the kind of guy to be annoyed at Blizzard finding trouble to striking a deal, rather than being annoyed that competitive Brood War is being held back.
Like it or not, AfreecaTV has been hosting competitive Brood War just fine without Blizzard's assistance or their need to strike deals until Blizzard decided to be a little more hands on. Further more, I have no doubt that they have indulged in shady affairs like any company in existence has. The important thing is that competitive Brood War has been going on. I don't care about AfreecaTV's finances or their shady policies, and if the end result is the continuation of competitive Brood War, that's good enough for me.
You claim to be as invested in the continuation of competitive Brood War more than anybody else, but all your words speak contrary to that statement. All your posts have been concerned more about Blizzard more than anything else. What their public perception may be. What other companies are doing to inconvenience them. What their motives and best course of action would be. Barely a single sentence about the actual status of competitive Brood War, and yet here you are pretending to want the continuation of competitive Brood War as bad as anyone else.
I guess I’m not as freaked out as some people because I think it is inevitable that they come to an agreement. If they don’t make a deal with Afreeca, then they don’t make any deals at all. As far as we know Afreeca is the only one willing to pay the licensing fee. So given the choice of sell to Afreeca or sell to no one, I think they will find a way to come to an agreement with Afreeca. I may be totally wrong and this is the end of competitive brood war as we know it, but I seriously doubt it.
On January 26 2018 11:44 PorkSoda wrote: ^^^and this is why I’m surprised blizzard even bothered to make a statement. Because nothing short of announcing that they struck a deal would be good enough for most fans. Even if they announced that people would still find a way to be annoyed with them.
you are not annoyed by blizzards course of action?
I’m extremely annoyed that they’re having trouble striking a deal but I also know that there’s probably another side to this story. As others have mentioned, professional gaming in Korea has been an extremely shady, often corrupt, industry. I want ASL5 as bad as anyone, but I’m not going to rush to judgement.
Lol, so professional gaming in Korea is all that?, "often corrupt, shady,....", you are watching too many stupid movies kid, please support this with many examples of corruption and blah, blah, blah.
On January 26 2018 11:44 PorkSoda wrote: ^^^and this is why I’m surprised blizzard even bothered to make a statement. Because nothing short of announcing that they struck a deal would be good enough for most fans. Even if they announced that people would still find a way to be annoyed with them.
you are not annoyed by blizzards course of action?
I’m extremely annoyed that they’re having trouble striking a deal but I also know that there’s probably another side to this story. As others have mentioned, professional gaming in Korea has been an extremely shady, often corrupt, industry. I want ASL5 as bad as anyone, but I’m not going to rush to judgement.
Lol, so professional gaming in Korea is all that?, "often corrupt, shady,....", you are watching too many stupid movies kid, please support this with many examples of corruption and blah, blah, blah.
And I’m not saying Afreeca is corrupt or their intentions are bad. I’m just saying that we don’t know the full story. I’ll we have he was a statement allegedly posted flyby the CEO of Afreeca, which if true, is a pretty bush league way to negotiate.
On January 26 2018 11:44 PorkSoda wrote: ^^^and this is why I’m surprised blizzard even bothered to make a statement. Because nothing short of announcing that they struck a deal would be good enough for most fans. Even if they announced that people would still find a way to be annoyed with them.
you are not annoyed by blizzards course of action?
I’m extremely annoyed that they’re having trouble striking a deal but I also know that there’s probably another side to this story. As others have mentioned, professional gaming in Korea has been an extremely shady, often corrupt, industry. I want ASL5 as bad as anyone, but I’m not going to rush to judgement.
You talk as if Blizzard were the ones organizing and promoting competitive Brood War for the past few years, and it's been other shady, often corrupt companies holding them back from realizing their dream of competitive Brood War prospering beyond our wildest imaginations. You would be the kind of guy to be annoyed at Blizzard finding trouble to striking a deal, rather than being annoyed that competitive Brood War is being held back.
Like it or not, AfreecaTV has been hosting competitive Brood War just fine without Blizzard's assistance or their need to strike deals until Blizzard decided to be a little more hands on. Further more, I have no doubt that they have indulged in shady affairs like any company in existence has. The important thing is that competitive Brood War has been going on. I don't care about AfreecaTV's finances or their shady policies, and if the end result is the continuation of competitive Brood War, that's good enough for me.
You claim to be as invested in the continuation of competitive Brood War more than anybody else, but all your words speak contrary to that statement. All your posts have been concerned more about Blizzard more than anything else. What their public perception may be. What other companies are doing to inconvenience them. What their motives and best course of action would be. Barely a single sentence about the actual status of competitive Brood War, and yet here you are pretending to want the continuation of competitive Brood War as bad as anyone else.
I guess I’m not as freaked out as some people because I think it is inevitable that they come to an agreement. If they don’t make a deal with Afreeca, then they don’t make any deals at all. As far as we know Afreeca is the only one willing to pay the licensing fee. So given the choice of sell to Afreeca or sell to no one, I think they will find a way to come to an agreement with Afreeca. I may be totally wrong and this is the end of competitive brood war as we know it, but I seriously doubt it.
So your entire logic is if it is unlikely to happen, the severity of the consequences holds no bearing at all?
If AfreecaTV doesn't pay the fees, and Blizzard aren't willing to let them broadcast competitive Brood War, this is the end of competitive Brood War as we know it. You do realize what happened to MBC Game and Ongament after they refused to pay the necessary liscencing fees to Blizzard right? It is rather astounding how blase your entire facade is if you truly are invested in the health of the Brood War scene, because the mere suggestion of the end of competitive Brood War makes me sick to the stomach, while you seem to be totally fine with rolling the dice and counting on Blizzard's line of reasoning to match yours.
I truly don't understand how you can claim to truly care for Brood War if your focus of attention is everything but that. If there is solid evidence that competitive Brood War will never be held back again by Blizzard, and all this scheduling inconvenience was a temporary retreat for the sake of the advancement of the heath of the Brood War scene, then I'm all ears. Nothing would make me happier.
What assurances do we have right now that Blizzard will not end either ATB or ASL, which were both running on schedule before Blizzard's intervention? Your blase attitude, and Blizzard's stellar track record with the Brood War community? I'm grasping at the straws for any hope, but that doesn't quite cut it when the very existence of competitive Brood War is at stake. You may be willing to be totally wrong with this, but it's not about being right or wrong for the others. Please prove me wrong with facts and evidence. Otherwise your apathetic line of reasoning and lack of concern may as well be ten pages of bootlicking garbage about how awesome Blizzard is and why we are lucky to have them with us.
You are tunnel-visioning on the fact that the evidence for competitive Brood War being under threat are coming from so-called untrustworthy sources such as AfreecaTV, and that there are no confirmations from Blizzard's end (the only source that truly matters, if they say it's fine, it must be fine). That's cute, but what evidence do we have that competitive Brood War is safe? Doesn't the very existence of such dooming evidence terrify you if you truly want competitive Brood War to happen more than anyone else?
First – apologies for the delay on commenting on this. We wanted to conduct our own investigation into the context/authenticity of the original post before jumping in, and strangely it has proven more difficult than we expected. We note that the post was deleted almost as soon as it was posted. Frankly, it also caught us a little off guard, as we and Afreeca have been finalizing plans for SCR esports before, during, and after that confusing post.
So, we’re still trying to get to the bottom of this issue, but what we can say is, we are fully committed to SCR as we always have been, and to SCR esports. Nothing has changed in that department, and we continue to engage in dialogue with Afreeca so we can all get back to being excited about an ASL S5!
Whole load of nothing for 2 paragraphs.
Plus, this was buried in there:
"we and Afreeca have been finalizing plans for SCR esports before, during, and after that confusing post."
So that's something. Maybe instead of this stupid year by year license they're working out a multi year partnership with team battles and whatnot.
Wow. Blizzard has blessed us with the message that they are in negotiations with AfreecaTV regarding ATB and ASL, leagues that would have both been under way without Blizzard's interventions. What a relief, now that Blizzard can go back to business without us little ants pestering them about wanting back what we had before.
Unless Blizzard wants to add more than what was there for competitive Brood War, and the all mighty AfreecaTV has been the ones to hold that vision back, we're back to square one with thumbs up our asses while Blizzard and AfreecaTV do their little dance of how much Blizzard is owed for others using their intellectual property.
Will AfreecaTV take the financial hit and man up to their words of going in the red for competitive Brood War? Will Blizzard lower their fees and actually deliver on their promise on being fully committed to SCR e-Sports? Find out next week on fuck-all competitive Brood War, where it's all speculation, and the possibilities are endless! Will the negotiations be extended? Will we have a multi-year partnership? Will it all come crashing down like it did before?
Yes. This is exactly what the Brood War community desired. Empty promises and speculation over the end-results while zero competitive Brood War takes place.
On January 26 2018 11:44 PorkSoda wrote: ^^^and this is why I’m surprised blizzard even bothered to make a statement. Because nothing short of announcing that they struck a deal would be good enough for most fans. Even if they announced that people would still find a way to be annoyed with them.
you are not annoyed by blizzards course of action?
I’m extremely annoyed that they’re having trouble striking a deal but I also know that there’s probably another side to this story. As others have mentioned, professional gaming in Korea has been an extremely shady, often corrupt, industry. I want ASL5 as bad as anyone, but I’m not going to rush to judgement.
Lol, so professional gaming in Korea is all that?, "often corrupt, shady,....", you are watching too many stupid movies kid, please support this with many examples of corruption and blah, blah, blah.
So there three, one of them very recent and involving KeSPA. There more but you know how to use google.
I know those , so in more than 15 years of progaming in Korea you cite three cases that everybody here knows, and you dare to say often corrupt? shady? lol, for real? seriously your posts are not even worthy to read anymore. Gl, cya, have a good life kid.
I think the best thing to do for us fans is to unite and try to spread the word to friends, all of us here want to see BW thrive do we not.
Im a bit late to the party but I have been sending the ASL2 FlashVSJD video to everyone I know, it would be a shame to let something this beautiful die.
On January 26 2018 14:04 FlaShFTW wrote: The post literally says nothing. It's just a red herring for us to go chase after while they provide no REAL update on the situation. Typical PR move with no substance behind it.
Typical of companies employing "community managers", people with no power whose only job is to tranquilize the community by means including employing a smug holier-than-thou attitude to anyone critical of the ones holding their leash. He even managed to belittle the CEO of Afreeca acting like he has no idea what he's talking about.
Meanwhile the people with real power don't ever have to face or learn from the community because they think being spoonfed sycophantic pre-chewed feedback from the "community managers" is all they need.
On January 26 2018 14:04 FlaShFTW wrote: The post literally says nothing. It's just a red herring for us to go chase after while they provide no REAL update on the situation. Typical PR move with no substance behind it.
Typical of companies employing "community managers", people with no power whose only job is to tranquilize the community by means including employing a smug holier-than-thou attitude to anyone critical of the ones holding their leash. He even managed to belittle the CEO of Afreeca acting like he has no idea what he's talking about.
Meanwhile the people with real power don't ever have to face or learn from the community because they think being spoonfed sycophantic pre-chewed feedback from the "community managers" is all they need.
I feel managed alright.
Things only keep getting worse it seems.
Where are the defenders now? Where is that aQuasc2 kid who kept coming here just to defend the poor multi-billion dollar corporation every time they did something incontrovertibly stupid? Oh right, he's not here because he never gave a shit about this game, he was just a Blizzard drone.
At this point the mental gymnastics required not to hate Blizzard would be so complex my brain wouldn't be able to perform them even if I wanted to.
Oh dear. Maybe one day Blizzard will file for bankruptcy and someone decent will buy the Starcraft license. Poor Brood War. It seems Blizzard hates SC 1 about as much as Microsoft hates Windows Xp.
On January 26 2018 21:03 Cele wrote: “uh... we don't even know if that's really an official afreeca statemt. Sure we work great together with them.“
Sounds like a pr lie to me.
Some posts in this thread make me legitimately wonder, if paid influencers are posting here though.
If we were to be skeptical, when SC2 first got released, there were massive influx of new people here on TL that spent an awful amount of time rapidly defending Blizzard when SC1 fans try to point out the upside of BW's features/mechanics.
It wouldn't surprise me if some of them are paid influencer.
On January 26 2018 21:03 Cele wrote: “uh... we don't even know if that's really an official afreeca statemt. Sure we work great together with them.“
Sounds like a pr lie to me.
Some posts in this thread make me legitimately wonder, if paid influencers are posting here though.
If we were to be skeptical, when SC2 first got released, there were massive influx of new people here on TL that spent an awful amount of time rapidly defending Blizzard when SC1 fans try to point out the upside of BW's features/mechanics.
It wouldn't surprise me if some of them are paid influencer.
Nah it's not even astroturfing, just petty tribalism from nerds who are too attached to their hobby in an unhealthy way. That cesspit of a "forum" NeoGAF is the same way, just people who blindly and desperately lick whatever drips from the crevice of their corporate overlords, and when someone calls them out on the fact that maybe some of the things that game companies do might not be in the benefit of the consumer or the industry, they double down and say "please, sir, may I have some more" while flaming all dissenters.
If there's anything giving gamers a bad name, this SHOULD be near the top of the list in an ideal world: fanatical corporate apologism.
On January 27 2018 04:01 Starlightsun wrote: Nice that we got some response at least, but yeah it certainly doesn't say much. I hope they would answer this person's post on the bnet forums:
On January 27 2018 22:03 1030xxx wrote: Why not using 1.16.1 to host ASL 5, just give up using the remaster version.
How would that change anything? 1.16.1 or Remastered makes no difference to Blizzard.
As long as Blizzard own the copyrights and trademarks to all things StarCraft, then Blizzard can exert control over any & all StarCraft events at their discretion, even 1.16.1 events.
On January 26 2018 14:04 FlaShFTW wrote: The post literally says nothing. It's just a red herring for us to go chase after while they provide no REAL update on the situation. Typical PR move with no substance behind it.
On January 27 2018 22:03 1030xxx wrote: Why not using 1.16.1 to host ASL 5, just give up using the remaster version.
How would that change anything? 1.16.1 or Remastered makes no difference to Blizzard.
As long as Blizzard own the copyrights and trademarks to all things StarCraft, then Blizzard can exert control over any & all StarCraft events at their discretion, even 1.16.1 events.
On January 27 2018 22:03 1030xxx wrote: Why not using 1.16.1 to host ASL 5, just give up using the remaster version.
How would that change anything? 1.16.1 or Remastered makes no difference to Blizzard.
As long as Blizzard own the copyrights and trademarks to all things StarCraft, then Blizzard can exert control over any & all StarCraft events at their discretion, even 1.16.1 events.
can you tell me what law is that o_@@
If you Google "intellectual property" that should give you a better idea.
For all the lawyers in this thread, can you host offline tournaments without needing Blizzard's permission if no money is involved?
And if so, what would the most likely result be if you hosted such a tournament and followed it up with a meaningless 100m dash that coincidentally has the same winner line-up as the starcraft tournament, and with a substantial prize pool?
On January 28 2018 07:23 B-royal wrote: For all the lawyers in this thread, can you host offline tournaments without needing Blizzard's permission if no money is involved?
And if so, what would the most likely result be if you hosted such a tournament and followed it up with a meaningless 100m dash that coincidentally has the same winner line-up as the starcraft tournament, and with a substantial prize pool?
I'll be rooting for Mong then, if only to see him try to look authentic winning that.
It’s Blizzard’s product so they can exert as much or as little control over their product as they see fit. You could try running a loop hole like that but a court would see through it pretty easily (assuming it went that far. No business would be silly enough to try it on with a massive company like Blizzard in that regard).
Last time Blizzard "engage in dialogue with Afreeca", 1 year ago, ATB2 vanished. Now, they "engage in dialogue with Afreeca" about ASL5... SCR: Starcraft Rebutchered ?
ASL5 will probably end up happening and that's a good thing, but this will not be a total victory unless Blizzard realizes their current BW esport policy is hurting the scene. If this does not happen than this thread will reappear when the ATB gets canceled yet again or ASL6 gets stuck in negotiation hell.
and who knows what will happen then, maybe the afreeca CEO gets so frustrated he moves on from BW for good....
On January 28 2018 07:51 RowdierBob wrote: It’s Blizzard’s product so they can exert as much or as little control over their product as they see fit. You could try running a loop hole like that but a court would see through it pretty easily (assuming it went that far. No business would be silly enough to try it on with a massive company like Blizzard in that regard).
On January 25 2018 04:42 hp.Shell wrote: It's about Overwatch. You can't buy loot crates in SCR. New SCR players won't buy Overwatch, won't buy crates.
Tbh, the BW community would probably cry the loudest if suddenly lootboxes with cosmetic skins would be introduced into the game and how it ruins it ^^.
Nice how you constantly bash BW community, and have a history of posts full of rethorical shit, but it is fashionable now come from SC2 forums to troll here. Gj.
Talk about triggered. If it werent true, you wouldnt have a reason to be so pissed off. Take a sip of ice tea to cool off.
On January 25 2018 04:42 hp.Shell wrote: It's about Overwatch. You can't buy loot crates in SCR. New SCR players won't buy Overwatch, won't buy crates.
Tbh, the BW community would probably cry the loudest if suddenly lootboxes with cosmetic skins would be introduced into the game and how it ruins it ^^.
I don't think you read this forum at all. When people were discussing what would be part of SC:R before release, a lot of people didn't mind if cosmetic skins would be part of it. In fact, the reception of the pre-order skins was good and the majority of people that posted in the SC:R thread liked them. Hope this helps ^^.
I dunno, from my perception the community seems to be split on it. And the ones that are in favor, are so only in condition if they dont have to see them. I saw a lot of posts how shitty the preorders skins were too.
@topic. It seems strange that Blizzard is replying so late into this drama, with 2 paragraphs that can be narrowed down to : " we are committed to scr" and no stance taken on the issue at hand.
On January 28 2018 07:51 RowdierBob wrote: It’s Blizzard’s product so they can exert as much or as little control over their product as they see fit. You could try running a loop hole like that but a court would see through it pretty easily (assuming it went that far. No business would be silly enough to try it on with a massive company like Blizzard in that regard).
That's exactly the problem.
I still don't know where which IP law really applies or whatever, they can TRY TO exert as much or as little control as they see fit, then what actually happen...
Oh I will just say what I want thank you very much. I don't mind that you have a different opinion and express it.
Just to be clear, his "opinion" is that you shouldn't suggest objectively harmful, destructive, and un-helpful things towards the company that is responsible for making the game we all love, and you are claiming the opposite opinion, right?
Oh I will just say what I want thank you very much. I don't mind that you have a different opinion and express it.
Just to be clear, his "opinion" is that you shouldn't suggest objectively harmful, destructive, and un-helpful things towards the company that is responsible for making the game we all love, and you are claiming the opposite opinion, right?
Blizzard didn't make this game, it was their predecessors.
They just inherited the rights.
Korea made the scene we all love.
Stop worshipping Blizzard as if they were the gods that made the game. They actively are trying to destroy the scene for a decade now.
Oh I will just say what I want thank you very much. I don't mind that you have a different opinion and express it.
Just to be clear, his "opinion" is that you shouldn't suggest objectively harmful, destructive, and un-helpful things towards the company that is responsible for making the game we all love, and you are claiming the opposite opinion, right?
Blizzard didn't make this game, it was their predecessors.
They just inherited the rights.
Korea made the scene we all love.
Stop worshipping Blizzard as if they were the gods that made the game. They actively are trying to destroy the scene for a decade now.
You can hate Blizzard quite a bit without going into what's basically cyberterrorism advocacy.
Better still would be to hate the laws that enable shitstains like them to do what they do. Same w/ Nintendo and their treatment of fans.
On January 29 2018 23:23 207aicila wrote: Better still would be to hate the laws that enable shitstains like them to do what they do. Same w/ Nintendo and their treatment of fans.
I want to google what Nintendo has done to their fans but I'm scared to find out and ruin my childhood love for the company.
Blizzard still has rights over BW regardless of whether we like it or not, otherwise Afreeca wouldn't have the amount of trouble that they are having now. Also, yes, no one should be advocating for DDOSing any company or whatever else. That's actionable on here and frankly, quite stupid to even think of. This isn't how the world works...
Relevant to the discussion:
On January 29 2018 14:25 K.H.J wrote: Briteney said something about ASL5.
His original plan was holding new tournament which replace ASL5( do you remember GTB? He planned something like that). So he asked it to AfreecaTV 2days ago. And AfreecaTV said that 'our goal is holding ASL5 in February. So please wait. We are negotiating with blizzard now.'
On January 30 2018 01:06 BigFan wrote: Blizzard still has rights over BW regardless of whether we like it or not, otherwise Afreeca wouldn't have the amount of trouble that they are having now. Also, yes, no one should be advocating for DDOSing any company or whatever else. That's actionable on here and frankly, quite stupid to even think of. This isn't how the world works...
On January 29 2018 14:25 K.H.J wrote: Briteney said something about ASL5.
His original plan was holding new tournament which replace ASL5( do you remember GTB? He planned something like that). So he asked it to AfreecaTV 2days ago. And AfreecaTV said that 'our goal is holding ASL5 in February. So please wait. We are negotiating with blizzard now.'
Well that is postive, thanks BigFan.
Is the tournament "fee" Blizz wants from tournament organisers for just live events? I recall an issue, might have been ASL4 even, where there was an issue financially and one of the things the organiser suggested as a worsy case scenario was an online only tourney.
I'd be interested in learning of the caveats if there are any.
I write long ass post but I don't think anyone can actually understand what I wrote with my bad english so I'll just link this for anyone interested about the law regarding video games tournament
On January 30 2018 01:06 BigFan wrote: Blizzard still has rights over BW regardless of whether we like it or not, otherwise Afreeca wouldn't have the amount of trouble that they are having now. Also, yes, no one should be advocating for DDOSing any company or whatever else. That's actionable on here and frankly, quite stupid to even think of. This isn't how the world works...
Relevant to the discussion:
On January 29 2018 14:25 K.H.J wrote: Briteney said something about ASL5.
His original plan was holding new tournament which replace ASL5( do you remember GTB? He planned something like that). So he asked it to AfreecaTV 2days ago. And AfreecaTV said that 'our goal is holding ASL5 in February. So please wait. We are negotiating with blizzard now.'
Well that is postive, thanks BigFan.
Is the tournament "fee" Blizz wants from tournament organisers for just live events? I recall an issue, might have been ASL4 even, where there was an issue financially and one of the things the organiser suggested as a worsy case scenario was an online only tourney.
I'd be interested in learning of the caveats if there are any.
also, regarding fees, blizzard restriction is based on prize pool and sponsorship
This is my community tournament that I applied 2 minutes ago (it's auto approved)
I haven't tried the custom license since I don't have money to burns tho
EDIT: I hope I don't have to actually organize a tournament otherwise I'm fucked and future hypothetical tournament I maybe or maybe not organize could be in danger of never gonna get approved.
On January 30 2018 01:06 BigFan wrote: Blizzard still has rights over BW regardless of whether we like it or not, otherwise Afreeca wouldn't have the amount of trouble that they are having now. Also, yes, no one should be advocating for DDOSing any company or whatever else. That's actionable on here and frankly, quite stupid to even think of. This isn't how the world works...
On January 29 2018 14:25 K.H.J wrote: Briteney said something about ASL5.
His original plan was holding new tournament which replace ASL5( do you remember GTB? He planned something like that). So he asked it to AfreecaTV 2days ago. And AfreecaTV said that 'our goal is holding ASL5 in February. So please wait. We are negotiating with blizzard now.'
well we live in times where certain people feel that DDOS attacks and other method's of (illegal) internet activity are legit ways to express the beliefs and expectations of social groups towards big corporations, politics and society as a whole. I don't want to claim here that Anomynous does just that, but enough people are arguing that DDOS attacks like Operation Payback are a form of Civil Disobedience.
I leave it up to anyone in these forums, to make up their own mind and use their ethical compass on those Questions. Then again, you shouldn't talk about DDOSing Blizzard, to me it's just wrong.
On January 29 2018 23:23 207aicila wrote: Better still would be to hate the laws that enable shitstains like them to do what they do. Same w/ Nintendo and their treatment of fans.
I want to google what Nintendo has done to their fans but I'm scared to find out and ruin my childhood love for the company.
A number of things, including takedowns of various community project ROMhacks for some of their old games and a hyperaggressive DMCA policy on YouTube that carpets any content related to their games before asking and essentially strongarms Nintendo-focused channels into an agreement where they give a big chunk of their profit to Nintendo. Like oh you made a channel in 2006 to talk about old NES and GB games out of love and passion? Take them down right now or sign this contract and whereby you give us 40% (?) of all your YT revenue.
On January 30 2018 04:24 Hier wrote: Haven't followed BW in a little while. Anyone have a one-sentence quote on what's going on?
Afreeca is having problems starting ASL5 due to Blizzard's involvement in the scene with rm release. Whether it's money-related or something else is anyone's guess but CEO was asking fans to pressure the company to get it started asap.
On January 30 2018 02:17 Shana wrote: I write long ass post but I don't think anyone can actually understand what I wrote with my bad english so I'll just link this for anyone interested about the law regarding video games tournament
On January 30 2018 01:06 BigFan wrote: Blizzard still has rights over BW regardless of whether we like it or not, otherwise Afreeca wouldn't have the amount of trouble that they are having now. Also, yes, no one should be advocating for DDOSing any company or whatever else. That's actionable on here and frankly, quite stupid to even think of. This isn't how the world works...
Relevant to the discussion:
On January 29 2018 14:25 K.H.J wrote: Briteney said something about ASL5.
His original plan was holding new tournament which replace ASL5( do you remember GTB? He planned something like that). So he asked it to AfreecaTV 2days ago. And AfreecaTV said that 'our goal is holding ASL5 in February. So please wait. We are negotiating with blizzard now.'
Well that is postive, thanks BigFan.
Is the tournament "fee" Blizz wants from tournament organisers for just live events? I recall an issue, might have been ASL4 even, where there was an issue financially and one of the things the organiser suggested as a worsy case scenario was an online only tourney.
I'd be interested in learning of the caveats if there are any.
also, regarding fees, blizzard restriction is based on prize pool and sponsorship
I haven't tried the custom license since I don't have money to burns tho
EDIT: I hope I don't have to actually organize a tournament otherwise I'm fucked and future hypothetical tournament I maybe or maybe not organize could be in danger of never gonna get approved.
Thanks, Shana. I saw this about an hour ago actually, after taking a look myself. Your English seems fine, but I can proof read your post if you like?.
On January 30 2018 04:24 Hier wrote: Haven't followed BW in a little while. Anyone have a one-sentence quote on what's going on?
Afreeca is having problems starting ASL5 due to Blizzard's involvement in the scene with rm release. Whether it's money-related or something else is anyone's guess but CEO was asking fans to pressure the company to get it started asap.
SC2 was fabricated to be an eSport with tournaments happening all the time, people able to start careers in it, and a whole community growing up from zero as managed by Blizzard.
God's own game, StarCraft: Brood War, is stuck in negotiation hell for it's one real tournament a year, and is living primarily off of streaming, hardly any different from someone streaming any other popular game.
GOD'S OWN GAME.
I think there is a mismatch in supply and demand here. There is an argument happening because things are just barely not working out. If it were egregious, Afreeca might not even be trying. If it were affordable, Afreeca would be completely happy to pay the fees. I haven't heard about anyone else trying to run large tournaments for BW anymore. Afreeca is it, they're the only ones who feel in a strong enough position to try it.
The idea of Blizzard letting their IP run wild anymore is a fantasy. It seemed like with 1.18 and "we're making BW free*!" that that might be the direction they were headed, but we're seeing no special treatment for BW, no acknowledgement of the special difficulties BW organizers are facing with trying to keep an old game with a mature community running, no special acknowledgement for the benefits Blizzard has accrued and will continue to accrue from people making tournaments about their games, greatly extending the lifespan of their games and the enduring popularity of their company. For Blizzard, those details are too airy fairy to make decisions on, or they are simply not being considered.
I don't think it matters if fans pressure relevant gaming company. It's a short term solution to protect Afreeca's current investment in making ASL5 happen, but I think they're going to give up if Blizzard can't promise to make things easier in the future. This little trick is a one-time thing to minimize losses. BW is suffocating, and we're not going to have those carefree days back again.
On January 31 2018 02:16 Chef wrote: SC2 was fabricated to be an eSport with tournaments happening all the time, people able to start careers in it, and a whole community growing up from zero as managed by Blizzard.
God's own game, StarCraft: Brood War, is stuck in negotiation hell for it's one real tournament a year, and is living primarily off of streaming, hardly any different from someone streaming any other popular game.
GOD'S OWN GAME.
I think there is a mismatch in supply and demand here. There is an argument happening because things are just barely not working out. If it were egregious, Afreeca might not even be trying. If it were affordable, Afreeca would be completely happy to pay the fees. I haven't heard about anyone else trying to run large tournaments for BW anymore. Afreeca is it, they're the only ones who feel in a strong enough position to try it.
The idea of Blizzard letting their IP run wild anymore is a fantasy. It seemed like with 1.18 and "we're making BW free*!" that they might be the direction they were headed, but we're seeing no special treatment for BW, no acknowledgement of the special difficulties BW organizers are facing with trying to keep an old game with a mature company running, no special acknowledgement for the benefits Blizzard has accrued and will continue to accrue from people making tournaments about their games, greatly extending the lifespan of their games and the enduring popularity of their company. For Blizzard, those details are too airy fairy to make decisions on, or they are simply not being considered.
I don't think it matters if fans pressure relevant gaming company. It's a short term solution to protect Afreeca's current investment in making ASL5 happen, but I think they're going to give up if Blizzard can't promise to make things easier in the future. This little trick is a one-time thing to minimize losses. BW is suffocating, and we're not going to have those carefree days back again.
On January 31 2018 02:16 Chef wrote: BW is suffocating, and we're not going to have those carefree days back again.
I don't think we have had carefree days since SC2 came out. My only dream is to have those days again, no matter how long in the future.
Im afraid i have to agree. Basically, ever since Blizzard started taking an interest again in their starcraft franchise [way back, when Sc2 was announced], things started going down hill. We saw the blizzard vs kespa lawsuit, resulting in big financial problems and ultimativly in the shutdown of bw osl and forced switch to Sc2. We had massive PR to make SC2 the next big esport thing. Most players left bw for good. Look at the big tournaments during WoL times: how often have known english speaking casters basically declared broodwar as a thing of the past?
We thrived when the korean players and viewers returned to BW for the passion. Know that Blizzard also has deployed the tools to impose their policy on afreeca with the launch of SC:R, death of FISH and other servers, i have little hope for carefree days ahead.
Remastered made me hopeful that the new 2D graphics would make BW a timeless game that people would seek out for the prestige of playing the hardest E-sport.
On January 31 2018 07:34 KungKras wrote: These are depressing times man...
Remastered made me hopeful that the new 2D graphics would make BW a timeless game that people would seek out for the prestige of playing the hardest E-sport.
A new era of sorts.
BW was already a timeless game. Graphics mean nothing for longevity because they are outdated very quickly.
I think there is a mismatch in supply and demand here. There is an argument happening because things are just barely not working out. If it were egregious, Afreeca might not even be trying. If it were affordable, Afreeca would be completely happy to pay the fees. I haven't heard about anyone else trying to run large tournaments for BW anymore. Afreeca is it, they're the only ones who feel in a strong enough position to try it.
There were at least two others TOs right? The new WCG and i can't remember the other one. Both rethought their decision after Blizzard demanded those 90k.
On January 30 2018 04:24 Hier wrote: Haven't followed BW in a little while. Anyone have a one-sentence quote on what's going on?
Afreeca is having problems starting ASL5 due to Blizzard's involvement in the scene with rm release. Whether it's money-related or something else is anyone's guess but CEO was asking fans to pressure the company to get it started asap.
I wasn't aware Blizzard was involved in ASL4.
should clarify. I didn't mean that Blizzard actually did anything, rather involvement meant them asking Afreeca to pay x to run ASL. Afaik, aside from that, Blizzard has not be involved in anything related to ASL so they only make money from it.
On January 31 2018 07:34 KungKras wrote: These are depressing times man...
Remastered made me hopeful that the new 2D graphics would make BW a timeless game that people would seek out for the prestige of playing the hardest E-sport.
A new era of sorts.
BW was already a timeless game. Graphics mean nothing for longevity because they are outdated very quickly.
In my opinion only 3D graphics get outdated. 2D graphics don't as long as they have a high enough resolution. Original BW graphis were outdated because they were too low res. SC:R won't become outdated in a very, very long time though.
On January 31 2018 07:34 KungKras wrote: These are depressing times man...
Remastered made me hopeful that the new 2D graphics would make BW a timeless game that people would seek out for the prestige of playing the hardest E-sport.
A new era of sorts.
BW was already a timeless game. Graphics mean nothing for longevity because they are outdated very quickly.
In my opinion only 3D graphics get outdated. 2D graphics don't as long as they have a high enough resolution. Original BW graphis were outdated because they were too low res. SC:R won't become outdated in a very, very long time though.
I think with 3D, the question is often 'How realistic is it?', which leaves it subject to advances in technology. 2D on the other hand feels much more like an artistic choice, which is why pixel games aren't ridiculed how absurd they look.
If the art style works for 3D it won't get outdated either. Just the games, that aim for realism get outdated if they don't look realistic anymore. I still like the looks of many N64 games even though they are 3D. And several PS2/3 and Xbox games look like crap.
On February 02 2018 15:33 [AS]Rattus wrote: If the art style works for 3D it won't get outdated either. Just the games, that aim for realism get outdated if they don't look realistic anymore. I still like the looks of many N64 games even though they are 3D. And several PS2/3 and Xbox games look like crap.
People like the look of N64 because of irrational nostalgia, not because they look good lmfao. In fact N64 had the worst graphics and performance of that console generation. Sorry to break your internet circlejerk but it's true.
On February 02 2018 15:33 [AS]Rattus wrote: If the art style works for 3D it won't get outdated either. Just the games, that aim for realism get outdated if they don't look realistic anymore. I still like the looks of many N64 games even though they are 3D. And several PS2/3 and Xbox games look like crap.
People like the look of N64 because of irrational nostalgia, not because they look good lmfao. In fact N64 had the worst graphics and performance of that console generation. Sorry to break your internet circlejerk but it's true.
No. Worst graphics PERFORMANCE, not worst graphics..
MariO64 & Banjo Kazooie still looks good because they got nice artistic unrealist choices. Same goes for older Doom, some of the newest levels made by guys really good at it, they looks good because they got irrealist architecture.
On February 02 2018 15:33 [AS]Rattus wrote: If the art style works for 3D it won't get outdated either. Just the games, that aim for realism get outdated if they don't look realistic anymore. I still like the looks of many N64 games even though they are 3D. And several PS2/3 and Xbox games look like crap.
People like the look of N64 because of irrational nostalgia, not because they look good lmfao. In fact N64 had the worst graphics and performance of that console generation. Sorry to break your internet circlejerk but it's true.
No. Worst graphics PERFORMANCE, not worst graphics..
MariO64 & Banjo Kazooie still looks good because they got nice artistic unrealist choices. Same goes for older Doom, some of the newest levels made by guys really good at it, they looks good because they got irrealist architecture.
If you think Mario 64 looks anywhere near as good as Doom in terms of artistic direction and cohesion you are high as fuck lol. Which is ironic because Doom isn't even 3D but hey...
And yeah, true, WADs like Vailant and Ancient Aliens look fucking amazing, it's crazy what the guys at doomworld keep making even 20+ years later.
On February 02 2018 15:33 [AS]Rattus wrote: If the art style works for 3D it won't get outdated either. Just the games, that aim for realism get outdated if they don't look realistic anymore. I still like the looks of many N64 games even though they are 3D. And several PS2/3 and Xbox games look like crap.
People like the look of N64 because of irrational nostalgia, not because they look good lmfao. In fact N64 had the worst graphics and performance of that console generation. Sorry to break your internet circlejerk but it's true.
sure, if the oracle of truth tells me its true, it has to be. ego "circle"jerk over there?
On February 02 2018 15:33 [AS]Rattus wrote: If the art style works for 3D it won't get outdated either. Just the games, that aim for realism get outdated if they don't look realistic anymore. I still like the looks of many N64 games even though they are 3D. And several PS2/3 and Xbox games look like crap.
People like the look of N64 because of irrational nostalgia, not because they look good lmfao. In fact N64 had the worst graphics and performance of that console generation. Sorry to break your internet circlejerk but it's true.
For 3rd party titles, sure. But for 1st party ones? Come on Mario and Zelda both look way better than anything you can see on the 3DO/Jaguar (at least in terms of games that were released during that gen, the jaguar has some fantastic homebrew games that came out way later). The N64 had a huge issue with the cpu having to go through the gpu to get to the ram and having cartridges instead of CDs was also an obvious issue. But the people at Nintendo sure as hell knew how to make good use of their system. The n64 is actually the most powerful system of it's generation, it's just that most 3rd parties sucked at developing for it. And I honestly think that Mario/Zelda are at least up to par with the PS1s/Saturns most beautiful games.
And just to clear it up: I never owned a N64 as a kid, and all my friends back then had PS1s. I only started to play games on the n64 a couple of years ago when I got into collecting older games systems.
On January 30 2018 04:24 Hier wrote: Haven't followed BW in a little while. Anyone have a one-sentence quote on what's going on?
Afreeca is having problems starting ASL5 due to Blizzard's involvement in the scene with rm release. Whether it's money-related or something else is anyone's guess but CEO was asking fans to pressure the company to get it started asap.
I wasn't aware Blizzard was involved in ASL4.
should clarify. I didn't mean that Blizzard actually did anything, rather involvement meant them asking Afreeca to pay x to run ASL. Afaik, aside from that, Blizzard has not be involved in anything related to ASL so they only make money from it.
So, the barrier is Blizzard delaying the license to Afreeca for ASL5, which generates them money without any investment on their part? Something is still off.
On February 02 2018 15:33 [AS]Rattus wrote: If the art style works for 3D it won't get outdated either. Just the games, that aim for realism get outdated if they don't look realistic anymore. I still like the looks of many N64 games even though they are 3D. And several PS2/3 and Xbox games look like crap.
People like the look of N64 because of irrational nostalgia, not because they look good lmfao. In fact N64 had the worst graphics and performance of that console generation. Sorry to break your internet circlejerk but it's true.
For 3rd party titles, sure. But for 1st party ones? Come on Mario and Zelda both look way better than anything you can see on the 3DO/Jaguar (at least in terms of games that were released during that gen, the jaguar has some fantastic homebrew games that came out way later). The N64 had a huge issue with the cpu having to go through the gpu to get to the ram and having cartridges instead of CDs was also an obvious issue. But the people at Nintendo sure as hell knew how to make good use of their system. The n64 is actually the most powerful system of it's generation, it's just that most 3rd parties sucked at developing for it. And I honestly think that Mario/Zelda are at least up to par with the PS1s/Saturns most beautiful games.
And just to clear it up: I never owned a N64 as a kid, and all my friends back then had PS1s. I only started to play games on the n64 a couple of years ago when I got into collecting older games systems.
Ps1 was made for 3D, so had the best 3d graphics, Saturn was made for 2D so best 2D graphics. While nintendo 64... i cant see where it shines, all that foggy graphics with only cartoonish colors, so far from the reality that ps1 can give.
I'm sorry but that looks like shit no matter how rosy your nostalgia glasses may be.
Most 2D games from that era (like Brood War) look way, way better.
You're forgetting that you're looking at a screenshot (still image). Mario 64 is a game with lots of motion, primarily from a constantly moving and rotating camera. If you actually play the game or watch a gameplay video on youtube, the low resolution textures are not as noticeable. What really "ages" older 3D games is clunky, frustrating controls, not its graphics. A good example of this is Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine.
I agree with the N64 guys always thought the same, depends on the specific games etc.. some games on N64 lagged a lot like star wars racers. But on PS1 too. Generally nintendo I agree knew to create art styles that didn't try to look realistic and achieved much nicer results overall on the screen, in terms of how it feels and how it relates to the gameplay. Mario64 still looks great, you can even just add antialiasing on emulator now and it looks good still my fav 3D platformer I think.
I personally like the 2D better, everything seems to run smoother / faster, and unit response times seem better, and I'm not sure to say it is because of my computer either, because I am running on a pretty solid computer / GPU...
I'm sorry but that looks like shit no matter how rosy your nostalgia glasses may be.
Most 2D games from that era (like Brood War) look way, way better.
was wondering where the fuck that screenshot is supposed to come from. And that scene was never a part of SM64. It's some OoT/SM64-Mod. I guess the first google results from the actual game weren't ugly enough for you to support your case. :-/ In fact, it doesn't show up at all if you google for SM64 pictures. You really dug deep there because the actual screenshots don't look ugly at all.
I'm sorry but that looks like shit no matter how rosy your nostalgia glasses may be.
Most 2D games from that era (like Brood War) look way, way better.
was wondering where the fuck that screenshot is supposed to come from. And that scene was never a part of SM64. It's some OoT/SM64-Mod. I guess the first google results from the actual game weren't ugly enough for you to support your case. :-/ In fact, it doesn't show up at all if you google for SM64 pictures. You really dug deep there because the actual screenshots don't look ugly at all.
I'm sorry but that looks like shit no matter how rosy your nostalgia glasses may be.
Most 2D games from that era (like Brood War) look way, way better.
was wondering where the fuck that screenshot is supposed to come from. And that scene was never a part of SM64. It's some OoT/SM64-Mod. I guess the first google results from the actual game weren't ugly enough for you to support your case. :-/ In fact, it doesn't show up at all if you google for SM64 pictures. You really dug deep there because the actual screenshots don't look ugly at all.
I searched "Mario 64" and this image was near the top. Didn't know it was a mod, I never played Mario 64 because I couldn't stand the shitty 3D even in the 90's. Played lots of 2D Mario though.
Mario 64 was essentially a flash-in-the-pan tech demo which might as well have been titled "remember that Money for Nothing animated music video you saw in 1984? Well now you can play it!".
Anyway back on topic, I just had to defend myself from your silly accusations that I dug up some obscure image when it's literally on the first page when you google "Mario 64". As Arb pointed out, the real deal isn't much better.
EPT
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT2AY-lVoAEu7ie.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Dl4eOMX.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/NoOlzdo.png)
![[image loading]](https://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Mario-64-Zelda-Mash-Up-1.jpg)
still my fav 3D platformer I think.![[image loading]](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/metroid/images/d/d2/Super_Metroid_Mother_Brain_tank.png/revision/latest?cb=20070715170036)
![[image loading]](https://static.highsnobiety.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/23161416/super-mario-64-best-game-mario-2.jpg)
