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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
The curious thing is he always morphs only one. I guess, for now, for him, at least, that's the threshold and I'm not seeing him researching all the upgrades / skills. He's always focusing on keeping the Dark Archon alive as long as possible but I'm not sure he develops all abilities. He mainly uses Maelstroms against Muta flocks and hydras. It's really cool when utilised well and he constantly manages to cast 3~5 spells. I hope he'll continue to experiment with builds like this. | ||
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KungKras
Sweden484 Posts
I mean a maxed out terran beats a maxed out protoss. So if the terran manages to get a split map; maybe you could gamble and mind control an SCV. Rush some tanks of your own, fortify your positions and surprise the T with 300+ pop vs his 200 pop. Or maybe he'll kill you before that ever happens but it'd be cool! | ||
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
On June 18 2017 03:57 Liquid`Drone wrote: overlord for detection. This was during a time where zvp was basically 'zerg lurker contains protoss. either protoss breaks out and wins the game, or they don't, and lose'. It still seems like it would have been a lot easier to build a robo and obs, then he'd have as much detection as he wants. But maybe I just don't understand the metagame of that era. | ||
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UndeadProtoss
19 Posts
To be fair terrans have a ~55% winrate vs protoss on most maps, just look at the TLPD map winrates: (FS + CB being the main maps/most played on) That's what I was mainly referring too, and I think the 10 point gap is mainly due to Protoss not being able to break the Terran siege line. And when you can't break the siege line in time, the Terran has map control and it can be quite difficult to get back into the game at that point. | ||
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iopq
United States924 Posts
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Sero
United States692 Posts
Jangbi used DA in the semifinals of the Jin Air OSL, which he went on to win. | ||
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Jealous
10153 Posts
On June 18 2017 11:37 Sero wrote: https://youtube.com/watch?v=p3PbW11IhI0 Jangbi used DA in the semifinals of the Jin Air OSL, which he went on to win. Sero maybe you would know who used Maelstrom in PvZ against muta flock on HBR? I think it was Jangbi but I'm not sure ): This goes out to anyone who knows which game I'm talking about! I think it's relevant here. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4098 Posts
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Sero
United States692 Posts
On June 18 2017 13:46 Jealous wrote: Sero maybe you would know who used Maelstrom in PvZ against muta flock on HBR? I think it was Jangbi but I'm not sure ): This goes out to anyone who knows which game I'm talking about! I think it's relevant here. Edit: nvm | ||
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Shinokuki
United States859 Posts
On June 18 2017 05:54 TT1 wrote: To be fair terrans have a ~55% winrate vs protoss on most maps, just look at the TLPD map winrates: (FS + CB being the main maps/most played on) http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sospa/maps PvP you can open w/ 2 dts and go into DA + mindcontrol (w/ mass goon support) if you can confirm that your opponent is doing a goon/reaver timing. You can mind control a shuttle w/ 2 reavs or worst case scenario 1 reav. Doesn't Flash and Last basically skew the stats in favor of terrans? and I think that movie, horang2, sky, and stork like completely skew the stats for protoss in worst way possible. We have really good tosses like rain, snow, mini, and bisu who all have 60% win rate | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
Feedback on Vessels doesn't really work, as at high level most EMP's will be pre-emptive after Terran scans the protoss army and Protoss doesn't know a vessel is coming. Also doesn't help against anti-recall EMPs. | ||
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snowfruit
Germany34 Posts
On June 18 2017 13:46 Jealous wrote: Sero maybe you would know who used Maelstrom in PvZ against muta flock on HBR? I think it was Jangbi but I'm not sure ): This goes out to anyone who knows which game I'm talking about! I think it's relevant here. Did you mean this? SPL Violet vs Hyuk 2009-11-09 @ Heartbreak Ridge or this one: EVER 2009 OSL Movie vs Shine 2010-01-08 | ||
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LaStScan
Korea (South)1289 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28668 Posts
On June 18 2017 08:51 Luddite wrote: It still seems like it would have been a lot easier to build a robo and obs, then he'd have as much detection as he wants. But maybe I just don't understand the metagame of that era. It was a joke build tbh, not used frequently, and it wasn't really any good. | ||
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radley
Poland582 Posts
Definitely got more wins with 1 base 1 stargate carrier rush. | ||
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
On June 17 2017 11:16 UndeadProtoss wrote: In late game PvT, the existence of a Science Vessel is very detrimental to the larger Protoss army, mainly because of the ability to EMP Arbiters and render the cloaking field null. HOWEVER, with a Dark Archon and a high energy Science Vessel, a Protoss player could reasonably kill one outright and effectively give his Arbiters more energy, assuming they would have been EMP-ed otherwise. I don't think this would be the case, In which scenario does the protoss player have both enough apm for feedbacking the vessel and not dodging with the arbiter? | ||
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Sero
United States692 Posts
On June 19 2017 04:03 sabas123 wrote: I don't think this would be the case, In which scenario does the protoss player have both enough apm for feedbacking the vessel and not dodging with the arbiter? Feedback casts pretty much instantly, so it's definitely faster. I'd say that scenario is more useful for protecting HTs from EMP than arbiters though. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28668 Posts
And as mentioned before, it's normally quite dangerous to feedback offensively. However If a vessel strays 3 matrixes ahead of the tank line though, it's doable, and I think it's quite common to see vessels in front of the army to scout for cloaked attacks. I don't think that adding DAs is gonna vastly increase p's winning chance, but I totally think that if it's one of those 4-5 control groups of protoss ground, 5 arbiters, limit, 5k/3k 4 mining bases vs 3-3 terran, then swapping 2 zealots for 1 DA is probably '+ev', and definitely not something that loses you the game. you don't need any upgrades, it's just 1 250/200 investment that gives you a decent chance at blocking a couple emps, meaning you're likely to have more stasis and storm during the next engagement. | ||
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Jealous
10153 Posts
On June 19 2017 04:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: feedback isn't only faster than emp, it has longer range as well. If a vessel attempts to emp a DA and the DA responds in time, then the vessel is getting feedbacked, before throwing emp even, every time. the problem is actually being in the screen and controlling the DA when the vessel is coming in for the emp. And as mentioned before, it's normally quite dangerous to feedback offensively. However If a vessel strays 3 matrixes ahead of the tank line though, it's doable, and I think it's quite common to see vessels in front of the army to scout for cloaked attacks. I don't think that adding DAs is gonna vastly increase p's winning chance, but I totally think that if it's one of those 4-5 control groups of protoss ground, 5 arbiters, limit, 5k/3k 4 mining bases vs 3-3 terran, then swapping 2 zealots for 1 DA is probably '+ev', and definitely not something that loses you the game. you don't need any upgrades, it's just 1 250/200 investment that gives you a decent chance at blocking a couple emps, meaning you're likely to have more stasis and storm during the next engagement. This is of course true if we consider the perfect player or SCAI or something of that nature, but the question for human players is IMO "Is using Feedback a better use of your time/APM than the alternative?" in which case I think it the answer would be "yes" very rarely and "no" the majority of the time when considering the (often discredited) amount of things a Protoss needs to do during an engagement, in rapid succession (Stasis + Shuttle + Storm + Split Zealots + Split Dragoons + Macro). | ||
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Sero
United States692 Posts
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