EPT
Jaedong should be one of the bonjwas - Page 6
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CanucksJC
Canada1241 Posts
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J1.au
Australia3596 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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ExceeD_DreaM
Canada500 Posts
I'm not talking about a year, I am talking about a lengthy career time period. Ofc it requires some accomplishments but also, that special something that makes the player very special and stand out among others, a feeling of 'How the hell does anyone beat him?' So JD and Flash both qualify to be a bonjwa somewhat, but recent losses here and there and resurgence of many good players (although at a lower level) makes the gap smaller compared to the past. Also, you can't have 2 bonjwas at once. bonjwa is simply someone who is the best, and how is it possible for 2 to be the best? And lets say Flash wins the upcoming final, would that make him a bonjwa? don't think so. Can JD beat Flash in any type of bo3,bo5 or ace game match up? Yes, with good enough chance. So, as of now, both of them can't be called bonjwa, and there is a reason why no Koreans call them bonjwa, since it is strictly (but similar) different from 'god' or 'cho gosu'. Maybe if JD falls and Flash keeps his high standards, maybe. btw, I am Korean, so I know how to define bonjwa from Korean perspective. | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
Jaedong should've definitely be a bonjwa. If it wasn't for Flash, he probably would've been the best player of all time. (Skill wise) | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On May 28 2011 22:18 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: Bonjwa would be someone so godly that has dominated/or was THE best at his time. I'm not talking about a year, I am talking about a lengthy career time period. Ofc it requires some accomplishments but also, that special something that makes the player very special and stand out among others, a feeling of 'How the hell does anyone beat him?' So JD and Flash both qualify to be a bonjwa somewhat, but recent losses here and there and resurgence of many good players (although at a lower level) makes the gap smaller compared to the past. Also, you can't have 2 bonjwas at once. bonjwa is simply someone who is the best, and how is it possible for 2 to be the best? And lets say Flash wins the upcoming final, would that make him a bonjwa? don't think so. Can JD beat Flash in any type of bo3,bo5 or ace game match up? Yes, with good enough chance. So, as of now, both of them can't be called bonjwa, and there is a reason why no Koreans call them bonjwa, since it is strictly (but similar) different from 'god' or 'cho gosu'. Maybe if JD falls and Flash keeps his high standards, maybe. btw, I am Korean, so I know how to define bonjwa from Korean perspective. Flash already did this last year by besting Jaedong in two finals at the same time, though? That was the entire reason he was exalted. 3 straight finals beatdowns is pretty conclusive. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On May 28 2011 22:04 Goragoth wrote: Not in absolute terms no, but SaviOr is the only Zerg in BW history to outshine his Terran rival, and even did so on maps that were actively hostile towards Zergs. That counts for a lot. Lol that's a pretty arbitrary metric though. Jaedong has more titles than savior and has been preforming at a top level for way longer than he did. Let's ignore longevity and success number and say Savior > Jaedong because savior beat his Terran rivals? I dunno....I think a lot of people here may be new users who forget what Jaedong did from late 2007 to 2009. The guy was absolutely unstoppable, and even last year he was a complete beast. He would have basically swept everything if it wasn't for flash. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On May 28 2011 22:18 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: Bonjwa would be someone so godly that has dominated/or was THE best at his time. I'm not talking about a year, I am talking about a lengthy career time period. Ofc it requires some accomplishments but also, that special something that makes the player very special and stand out among others, a feeling of 'How the hell does anyone beat him?' So JD and Flash both qualify to be a bonjwa somewhat, but recent losses here and there and resurgence of many good players (although at a lower level) makes the gap smaller compared to the past. Also, you can't have 2 bonjwas at once. bonjwa is simply someone who is the best, and how is it possible for 2 to be the best? And lets say Flash wins the upcoming final, would that make him a bonjwa? don't think so. Can JD beat Flash in any type of bo3,bo5 or ace game match up? Yes, with good enough chance. So, as of now, both of them can't be called bonjwa, and there is a reason why no Koreans call them bonjwa, since it is strictly (but similar) different from 'god' or 'cho gosu'. Maybe if JD falls and Flash keeps his high standards, maybe. btw, I am Korean, so I know how to define bonjwa from Korean perspective. That's basically what Jaedong was 2008-2009 though. There was no1 who could stand in his way back then, and it was at a time he was enjoying a positive win rate against Bisu, who was considered the Zerg killer. Flash was slumping and Stork is Stork so yea, Jaedong was at the very top, undisputed. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On May 28 2011 22:04 CanucksJC wrote: how bout we all live happily together and title both flash and jd bonjwas yah? The outrage! p; | ||
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Bwenjarin Raffrack
United States322 Posts
On May 28 2011 22:04 CanucksJC wrote: how bout we all live happily together and title both flash and jd bonjwas yah? That kind of placation would just be disingenuous. On May 28 2011 22:18 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: Bonjwa would be someone so godly that has dominated/or was THE best at his time. I'm not talking about a year, I am talking about a lengthy career time period. Ofc it requires some accomplishments but also, that special something that makes the player very special and stand out among others, a feeling of 'How the hell does anyone beat him?' [Question] How to beat Flash? [SPL spoiler] Who will end Flash's TvT streak? Is it possible flash makes a 90% winning record? Flash's Last 20 games Who Might Stop Flash in OSL? How is Flash doing so well? How to beat Flash: Commentator Edition. How Protoss can beat Flash Is Flash really invincible? Introducing the "god" line. So JD and Flash both qualify to be a bonjwa somewhat, but recent losses here and there and resurgence of many good players (although at a lower level) makes the gap smaller compared to the past. Also, you can't have 2 bonjwas at once. bonjwa is simply someone who is the best, and how is it possible for 2 to be the best? And lets say Flash wins the upcoming final, would that make him a bonjwa? don't think so. Can JD beat Flash in any type of bo3,bo5 or ace game match up? Yes, with good enough chance. So, as of now, both of them can't be called bonjwa, and there is a reason why no Koreans call them bonjwa, since it is strictly (but similar) different from 'god' or 'cho gosu'. Maybe if JD falls and Flash keeps his high standards, maybe. btw, I am Korean, so I know how to define bonjwa from Korean perspective. What more did Flash need to do in 2010 to distinguish himself from Jaedong and be called bonjwa? How is it possible for two to be the best when one defeats the other in three straight finals? Q With this victory, you’ve risen to Bonjwa status. A Receiving a title like that is quite an honor but compared to the players who rose to that level before, I think I’m still lacking. Though it’s nice if fans call me that, I still think “Ultimate Weapon” is better and more appropriate for me right now. Jaedong doesn't have to be "bonjwa." History will not remember him less fondly because he wasn't awarded that one title. He has been the uncontested strongest Zerg player in the world for years, was more consistently strong than Flash, and is undisputedly one of the greatest players of all time. For Zerg fans, compared to Savior he's all of the talent and skill with none of the guilt. He may not have been crowned bonjwa because of circumstance, but that doesn't mean he needs it out of pity or favoritism either. He doesn't need it and doesn't want it. He's the Tyrant, a name more meaningful to him than bonjwa, and we love him regardless. Flash bested him for a time, and there's no shame in admitting that. Even fanboys can be reasonable. | ||
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aupstar
Australia912 Posts
We still don't know who would've won that game and Flash was clearly shaken by that loss which you can clearly see in his awful sloppy play in the next game. | ||
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Armathai
1023 Posts
On the plus side, the article at SK-Gaming was nicely written with lots of great info on Jaedong! People should focus on that rather than this stupid term. | ||
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Lexpar
1813 Posts
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Legatus Lanius
2135 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On May 28 2011 23:02 Lexpar wrote: Man when did we agree Flash was officially bonjwa? I miss so much when I go to school and focus on the SC2 scene (I haven't been keeping up with anything :C). Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight about here. | ||
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aupstar
Australia912 Posts
On May 28 2011 23:03 Legatus Lanius wrote: there was a pretty big discussion about that game and i think the general consensus was that jaedong had it regardless I don't know how you reached the conclusion that there was a general consensus (probably a general consensus amongst jaedong fans) because the game itself played out similarly to one of their previous games where jaedong was way ahead economically but flash came in with with a few dropships and won the game. Flash even says afterwards that he thought he could win the game...and it's not like they went straight to the next game after the power outage occurred. It took like an hour for the next game to begin and Flash was visibly shaken by it. I think if Flash thinks he could've won the game then there was a big possibility that he could have. | ||
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Slardar
Canada7593 Posts
On May 28 2011 17:58 Grend wrote: I think this has been said time and time again but I`ll reiterate: The reason why neither Flash or Jaedong can be considered Bonjwa is that they are both S+ at the same time. As a Bonjwa you are supposed to be utterly dominant, and above everyone else for an extended period of time. You cannot have two Bonjwas at the same time, thus none of them are. They are many other great things, but they cannot be Bonjwa since they mutually exclude eachother from the title. Basically this sums it up. Although Flash had that one incredibly dominant year, one year doesn't justify "Bonjawa" status. Saviour for example was dominant for like 2-3 years before his eventual slump and or fall. JD was dominant for about 1-2 years prior to Flash's "breakout" year, but I guess he wasn't THAT dominant enough to be crowned Bonjawa. Also it took that year of brilliance by Flash to catch up in terms of medals to Jaedong so JD was always ahead in those terms. | ||
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
On May 28 2011 20:36 raviy wrote: JD is a donkey. No, sir, JD is THE donkey. | ||
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Armathai
1023 Posts
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bluetrolls
United States139 Posts
On May 28 2011 23:09 aupstar wrote: I think if Flash thinks he could've won the game then there was a big possibility that he could have. Sadly, that's the moment where the line between fair rivalry and disrespect is crossed. Second guessing a top champion leaves is bad form. | ||
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