• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:48
CEST 16:48
KST 23:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20258Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced24BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 676 users

How is Flash doing so well?

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
JaedongMidasAction
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States70 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-14 00:20:25
May 14 2010 00:19 GMT
#1
After 12 long years, the game of Starcraft has developed into a game where everyone is very close in skill level, and it is difficult, maybe even impossible to call someone a clear favorite over all the others. Ever since Savior's reign in 2006-7, people have refused to match the word "bonjwa" with any other person because they did not have the same kind of dominance that he had. These days, a bad player can once in a while beat an "S classed" player quite easily, even crush them, although not often. Everyone has figured out builds, how to train, how to get faster... Kingdom said about Bisu's slump lately that back when Bisu's multitasking was unparalleled, he beat everyone, but now that kind of multitasking has become a standard he was struggling to keep up. Also, now that all the build orders are standardized and everyone practices basically the same builds, its harder to get an early advantage over the other player.

But then how the fuck is Flash going like 80% in all his games and defeating everyone he comes by? How does he have a 13 game streak (would have been 21 if he didnt lose to M18M) against protoss, his "weakest" race??? How does he make his games look so one sided, even after 12 years of the game being out and people claiming that noone could ever dominate starcraft ever again like nada, boxer, oov, or savior did. Flash is doing better than any of them ever did. He's broken all of their records and Jaedong's. His elo is almost 100 better than anyone, his Kespa score is 1000 better than Jaedong's and recently broke his record for the highest. I dont get it.

Flash started suddenly doing better starting this Proleague season. After his 2-1 loss to Bisu, he started to rip up everything in his path. Coincidently, he cut and dyed his hair right before he started his amazing game winning frenzy. At the same time, Bisu grew out and also dyed his hair, and he went into a huge, seemingly career ending slump. (Of course I'm not being serious that the hair style change caused their change in gameplay, but its just interesting.)

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is this: Flash went from having okay results to SUDDENLY DOMINATING EVERYTHING (and yes, I know that he's always been good, I'm talking about right before that when he was losing quite frequently). So how do you think he did it? What changed about his gameplay and himself that caused this to happen? and HOW is this level of dominance even possible in modern day Starcraft?
ShaSKiRa
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia344 Posts
May 14 2010 00:23 GMT
#2
It all about Skills, not strategy or BO since everyone can do a BO like that.

If Fantasy, Really, Leta or anyterran does a Bunker vs 12 nexus ... It always different to FlaSh's bunker rush.

Himself make it diff.

that what i reckon
I love FlaSh :) He gonna PWNED ALL OTHER RACE
AnyOne
Profile Joined January 2008
Chile547 Posts
May 14 2010 00:24 GMT
#3
there is no explanation
he is just a monster
STX SOuL FightinG~ Inter.Calm FigthinG ~
JaedongMidasAction
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States70 Posts
May 14 2010 00:26 GMT
#4
lol come on guys I'm looking for an actual theory or explanation or thought on how he's doing so good. No "FLASH IS BONJWA. HE'S JUST TOOO GOOD" posts plz
bearbuddy
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3442 Posts
May 14 2010 00:27 GMT
#5
It's the Pocari Sweat.

There is no other explanation.
dtnmang
Profile Joined April 2010
Vietnam752 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-14 00:28:24
May 14 2010 00:27 GMT
#6
He sold his soul to Satan.
And Pocari Sweat.
KT Roflster - the lulziest team of Proleague.
Ikonn
Profile Joined October 2009
Netherlands1958 Posts
May 14 2010 00:27 GMT
#7
He complained about having a huge workload in the previous Proleague season, which caused him to lose many games and almost made him quit playing

Then he had the 'long' break after the season was over. I think he finally had the time to sort everything out and to get in the mindset he needed to reach the potential everyone knew he had for years.

But this is, of course, just speculation.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-14 00:34:55
May 14 2010 00:27 GMT
#8
1. Better maps for Terran (no more swarm season)

In summer 09 Zergs managed to actually reverse the long-held T>Z win ratio and win more games against Terrans than vice versa. I don't think maps are the primary reason for this though, see reason 4.

2. No innovative Protoss

No Protosses have come up to replace the 6 dragons no matter what Roffles says. Protoss play in the 09-10 season has looked uninspired compared to Zerg and especially Terran play.

3. Smarter BOs, more developed game sense.

Flash started out as a player who had great mechanical skills and cheesed a lot to throw opponents off guard (unlike, say, Really, who has great mechanics but never cheeses). Now he has the game sense and decision making to not need cheese as much (although his cheeses are very well done) and he plays less greedy, using an aggressive TvZ style and not going 14 CC all the time.

4. Better M&M micro.

Flash has always had good TvP, but after summer 09 his TvZ became simply dominant and his best matchup. The reason? In swarm season Zergs were able to outmicro Terrans and win with just mutas, but Flash's improved micro along with his early second rax destroyed mutas with large armies of perfectly microed marines.
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-14 00:30:20
May 14 2010 00:29 GMT
#9
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]





+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]





+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
Each day gets better : )
Andre
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Slovenia3523 Posts
May 14 2010 00:31 GMT
#10
Bad competition, with the exception of JD.
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
May 14 2010 00:33 GMT
#11
I'm willing to lay odds that having finished high school - Korean high school, no less - may have a little bit to do with it.

At least I think he's graduated. If not... then this is not a good theory, lol.
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
MindRush
Profile Joined April 2010
Romania916 Posts
May 14 2010 00:37 GMT
#12
On May 14 2010 09:26 JaedongMidasAction wrote:
lol come on guys I'm looking for an actual theory or explanation or thought on how he's doing so good. No "FLASH IS BONJWA. HE'S JUST TOOO GOOD" posts plz


i cannot think of any other explanation.
he is the best macro player in the world and he has a very good micro too
and he has no visible weaknesses
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Fumi
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
529 Posts
May 14 2010 00:39 GMT
#13
On May 14 2010 09:29 ella_guru wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]





+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]





+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

Pretty much this.
Flash, Stats, Reach, Tossgirl <> Boxer, Nestea, MC, Foxer fangirl | http://osu.ppy.sh/u/181432
geegee1
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States618 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-14 00:42:12
May 14 2010 00:41 GMT
#14
probably because of the fact that he has good game sense and scouts really well and adapt very well to the situation at hand. plus he just have godlike micro and marco. did you see him roll soulkey like he just started iccup? plus hes just a mile ahead of everyone else.
pew pew
minus_human
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
4784 Posts
May 14 2010 00:47 GMT
#15
It's largely due to his mental strength and focus, which is quite impressive for a 17 year-old.
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
May 14 2010 00:48 GMT
#16
Only Protoss I think could've won a bo5 against Flash is Stork.

Stork is someone who knows how to punish greedy builds.
minus_human
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
4784 Posts
May 14 2010 00:49 GMT
#17
On May 14 2010 09:48 LaLuSh wrote:
Only Protoss I think could've won a bo5 against Flash is Stork.

Stork is someone who knows how to punish greedy builds.



Flash will beat Stork at mind games.
EntertainMe
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
864 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-14 00:52:00
May 14 2010 00:50 GMT
#18
He has combination of mental strenght and focus like minus_human said and also godlike sc abilities like geegee1 said.

Knowing that, once he wins dual title this season, his mental strengh and focus will subside. He will once again become average mortal like the rest of progamers. (The fall of every bonjwa, Flash will not be an exception)

But till then, he will remain a monster, but not for too long now.
geegee1
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States618 Posts
May 14 2010 00:51 GMT
#19
On May 14 2010 09:48 LaLuSh wrote:
Only Protoss I think could've won a bo5 against Flash is Stork.

Stork is someone who knows how to punish greedy builds.


thats quite funny considering how stork lost to flash on bacchus when he tried to counter flash greedy play
pew pew
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8097 Posts
May 14 2010 00:51 GMT
#20
jaedong's ZvZ slipped a bit so he wasnt nearly as dominate in winners league as he was last season

stork/jangbi/bisu all slumped really hard and they were always the protosses with the best chance at beating flash

all other terrans started sucking a bunch so it was easy for him to get a huge TvT win streak

maps have been pretty good for TvZ since September (HOW THE FUCK DID JAEDONG WIN THE NATE OSL WITH ODDEYE AND ULTIMATUM IN THE MAP POOL?)

2 hatch muta pretty much died but most zergs forgot how to play 3 hatch muta lol

he probably started practicing as much as JD (before he said he didnt actually practice that much and instead spent a lot of time doing though experiments and stuff) and now he literally is just "the best" in every respect of terran gameplay. best micro, macro, game sense, everything.

Honestly this might just be a bunch of zerg fanboy blabber but I think stylistically/racially it's a lot easier for flash to win a game without much practice than it is for Jaedong. Many factors contribute to it (such as ZvZ vs TvT, JD's micro intensive style compared to flash's macro intensive style, etc), but i think JD has always been at the same skill level as flash for the last year and a half (and obviously he was doing a lot better until last fall).
Free Palestine
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
14:00
Bracket Day 2 - Final
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Clem vs Krystianer
uThermal vs SKillousLIVE!
Reynor vs MaNa
Lambo vs Gerald
RotterdaM2112
ComeBackTV 1526
IndyStarCraft 506
WardiTV369
CranKy Ducklings197
Rex140
3DClanTV 76
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2112
IndyStarCraft 506
Rex 140
BRAT_OK 74
MindelVK 22
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 47448
Barracks 1628
EffOrt 1395
Larva 983
Stork 881
BeSt 624
firebathero 449
Soulkey 259
Hyun 162
Rush 144
[ Show more ]
Sharp 103
Dewaltoss 90
Shinee 65
sorry 64
sSak 60
Movie 51
Sea.KH 51
Free 50
sas.Sziky 37
Shine 33
zelot 28
yabsab 15
Terrorterran 4
Dota 2
Gorgc5191
qojqva3717
XcaliburYe388
420jenkins283
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m2004
sgares358
oskar176
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor538
Other Games
B2W.Neo1863
Beastyqt1546
Hui .287
DeMusliM230
Fuzer 161
QueenE79
KnowMe56
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV39
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 6
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 53
• poizon28 12
• Dystopia_ 1
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3386
• WagamamaTV721
League of Legends
• Nemesis3051
• Jankos1359
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3h 12m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Wardi Open
20h 12m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 19h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.