EPTHere's me thinking you need to wash all this sc2 fanboyism off yourself because most people (who played bw at least) will freely admit they are disappointed with the way the game has turned out. Its not bad, but its not great either.
My view regarding Destiny's latest statements - Page 3
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
Here's me thinking you need to wash all this sc2 fanboyism off yourself because most people (who played bw at least) will freely admit they are disappointed with the way the game has turned out. Its not bad, but its not great either. | ||
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brian2sk8t
United States192 Posts
Regardless of the skill-ceiling hubub, and bias, they are both e-sports. In real sports, people may plead that baseball is more difficult than football, or soccer more than hockey. All the different sports challenge different physical skillsets, and that is understood. Why can't it be with ESPORTS? GO ESPORTS! | ||
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Bengui
Canada775 Posts
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brian2sk8t
United States192 Posts
On February 08 2012 02:22 Bengui wrote: Apples sure are tastier than oranges. Quite...quite. | ||
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cKiLLeR
Chile6 Posts
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Destiny
United States280 Posts
On February 08 2012 00:53 FuxFux wrote:I think no person can really deny the fact that Destiny lost touch with his stream viewers. The past few months, he gradually became less talkative and explanatory to people who came to him for knowledge, and learning. It is like he turned into stone before my eyes. It is not possible to be incredibly competitive and still goof off day in and day out. If you want to watch someone just "have fun" on stream and "be crazy" etc...etc..., then Dragon would be a good pick for you. I understand that this upsets some people, but, due to my desire to actually be competitive instead of only entertaining, it's something that has to have happened. Still, I must say that it is surprising and shocking to find that Destiny thinks an easy, straight forward and slow-paced game such as League of Legends takes more skill than StarCraft 2. This kind of statement is in no way the result of a clear and lucid thought process. I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me. Destiny, I understand that it is hard for you. I understand that you find games like LoL an easy way out, an escape. We all know that StarCraft 2 is a hard and demanding game and that improving can sometimes feel like climbing up an extremely steep cliff. My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested. But I do not understand how you can just give up like this. To publicly humiliate yourself by saying StarCraft 2 requires less skill than LoL? You could have quietly made the jump and switch to play only LoL and I would shed a few tears and go on with my life. But making this statement, I feel, is generally disrespecting the entire StarCraft 2 community, and specifically all the people who followed you vigorously. I'm only publically humiliating myself to the vocal minorities that only see 1 game, their legendary Starcraft 2, as the only competitive game in the world. I still think I could defend the statement that LoL (or any MOBA, honestly, especially DotA 2) requires more "skill" in terms of strategy/intelligence, BY FAR, than Starcraft 2. A game that requires no skill such as LoL might make you feel relieved, you might feel good about yourself when you win matches. Owning noobs and what-not. But deluding yourself into believing you are actually playing a game superior to StarCraft 2 is unacceptable, and quite frankly, pathethic. "No skill" game makes you sound immature and bigoted, like your blessed Starcraft 2 is the only competitive game in the world. I wish you would have been around when all of the BW-fans were saying the exact same thing about SC2, and I can tell by the tone of your post that you weren't. So, I just wanted to open this thread to share my discontempt with your statements, and to let you know that I have lost all respect for you. I know that I am but one fan you lost, so I decided to open it as a thread, to be able to gather the opinion of the rest of my (yes my, not your) community. Sorry if you feel that way, then. Even though I no longer respect you, I do hope you will be able to one day find redemption. My life will never revolve around seeking redemption from fans. If you want to watch someone act politically correct, then I suggest Incontrol. | ||
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XiVol
Wales74 Posts
A game that requires no skill such as SC2 might make you feel relieved, you might feel good about yourself when you win matches. Owning noobs and what-not. But deluding yourself into believing you are actually playing a game superior to Brood War is unacceptable, and quite frankly, pathethic. HEEEEEEEEYOOOOOO. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Stexer
United States4 Posts
Now let us look at League of Legends. If League of Legends required no skill, it would not be considered a rising e-sport. If you actually played League of Legends enough, you would know that there are a lot of things that need to be taken into account throughout the laning phase, mid game, and late game. During the laning phase, it is all about harass trades, last hitting, positioning, and overall trying to win your lane. Midgame revolves around securing objectives on the map, i.e. dragon, red/blue buffs for your carries, and pushing down lanes. Once again, this requires thought-process and in most cases, positioning. Late game revolves around team fights and baron. Again, positioning, but now teamwork is a HUGE factor. Stating that LoL requires no skill, while offering no proof or explanation, is an invalid argument and it makes you look childish. You have no idea what you are talking about, all you are doing is riding the bandwagon of Starcraft 2 elitists who think nothing can touch Starcraft 2. | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
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VersesVersus
Canada25 Posts
I would like to start off by saying who gives a shit disappointing stuff happens everyday, T.V. shows you love get canceled, M Night Shyamalan directs The Last Airbender, Destiny plays another game. This is life, if Destiny is honestly losing his passion for Starcraft and finding that passion in League Of Legends I think that is the path he should go down. I don't want the man to be miserable and if you "did" respect him so much as an actual person and not just an infestor-using drone you should support him and what makes him happy. I do not blame Destiny one damn bit his practice environment is very sub par you've got to realize he isn't in a team house when he gets frustrated he has nearly no one to turn to for advice. The chat is stagnant and filled with trolls, I don't even open that trash anymore. The worst thing is the most vocal people are the ones that are simply there to be an asshole. Put me in Destiny's shoes and I would do the exact same damn thing. Saying Destiny isn't a winner is ignorant he has many obstacles the average pro gamer does not including an ex-wife, obligations to his son (seriously even 31 year-old Whitera doesn't have children), very little practice support, very little income, and to top it off 1000's of self proclaimed former fans who hate on him for the most retarded reasons possible. You can say he isn't a winner but I think Destiny has given Starcraft a hard go and with everything holding him back I am proud he has got this far. Stay Brave Destiny, VersesVersus | ||
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RevTiberius
Canada353 Posts
A lot of people say SC2 is shit. Doesn't bother me at all. | ||
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matiK23
United States963 Posts
On February 08 2012 01:44 sermokala wrote: you have to control 1 unit when you have 9 others that are not under your control to consider. You can't tell me that more and more gsl games are getting back to cheese. MMA beat MVP primary though cheese builds. every protoss does a 2 base allin. Its not a simple situation at all when you have so many different champs that you can play or someone else play. in sc2 you always know your race and before it matters always know the race of your opponent. Heck midas thinks that lol is harder then sc2. I think he knows more then the both of us on this situation. oh and when did all the destiny fanboys get to tl. I thought they all stayed at reddit where they belong. negative affect on the community comment with 4 posts don't be stupid. Hey in Call of Duty, you control 1 unit and don't have control of 11 others. Does that mean its harder game than LoL because there are +2 units you cannot control? This retort is hilarious. Seriously if you are going to use the whole argument of controlling one unit, people have to control 200 supply worth of units plus the other 200 unit not in your control. Hurr Durrrrr. Is there no cheese in LoL? How about counter jungling? That's rushing and an aberration of standard play. Build orders become a mindless thing in sc2 after a certain level? Ok well so does last hitting creeps. If anyone is a destiny fanboy, it's you because you just endorsed what Destiny claimed in the first place. And to all the guys bitching about how this is even a thread, it's the blog section. People have a right to type about their thoughts here, within boundaries, regardless of how absurd might think. | ||
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natebreen
United States184 Posts
The "casuals" as Destiny calls them are people whose biggest focus on ladder and in their play is to keep making units, or workers, or maybe they don't multi-task well. At a "pro" level, the game becomes more about "strategy," and that's where Destiny's complaint lies. He's pointing out that as the game gets "played out," it becomes less and less of a creative game, and in that sense, he is saying the skill is lesser. For lower level players they might not ever reach a point where their macro multitasking and micro are good enough to feel that sensation. As someone who played cs 1.6 at a very high level I can understand where he's coming from with regards to SC2. Team games incorporate a whole host of variables that may not exist in a game like SC2. The mechanical aspect of the game is INCREDIBLY demanding and that is a facet of what someone would call "skill," but in the way he is using it, it pales in comparison to the creative and strategic aspects of team games like CS, LoL, etc. I think it's a matter of combinatoric extrapolation. What I mean by that is the expression of the complexity of the game in terms of the "situations" you might find yourself in. The metagame that we all refer to in SC2 is an extension of that. There are X numbers of viable builds in each match-up, with Y numbers of cheeses, and Z number of maps. While the game may be strategic and creative at times, the innovation becomes less and less important over time. (This is clearly evident with any RTS game). It's possible what he's experiencing is just bias, as I think that this happens in any game. However, the popularity of SC2 and the sheer amount of raw ability thrown at the game may have accelerated for him the effect of "realizing" that the game goes through that cycle. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13845 Posts
On February 08 2012 03:16 matiK23 wrote: Hey in Call of Duty, you control 1 unit and don't have control of 11 others. Does that mean its harder game than LoL because there are +2 units you cannot control? This retort is hilarious. Seriously if you are going to use the whole argument of controlling one unit, people have to control 200 supply worth of units plus the other 200 unit not in your control. Hurr Durrrrr. Is there no cheese in LoL? How about counter jungling? That's rushing and an aberration of standard play. Build orders become a mindless thing in sc2 after a certain level? Ok well so does last hitting creeps. If anyone is a destiny fanboy, it's you because you just endorsed what Destiny claimed in the first place. And to all the guys bitching about how this is even a thread, it's the blog section. People have a right to type about their thoughts here, within boundaries, regardless of how absurd you might think. because half your supply isn't in workers. in cod you die instantly so theres no comparison. You talk about counterjungling like its a 1/1/1 when its more like the concept of harassment in sc2. Now lets break it down and why you are a complete idoit and should go back to reddit. 1. you constantly try to do a childish insult after every point. thats just stupid and makes you look bad 2. last hitting creeps and build orders are the same. yes your point? that supports my side you where better off saying that afk farming for janglers requires even less practice. 3. You completely have no idea what the concept of counter jungling is. I have no idea how you could attribute that to rushing and you could have made the point of level 1 group fighting to try and steal a buff at the start of the game. 4. you call me a destiny fanboy because I endorse what he said? I didn't endorse anything I just pointed out that his points where valid and its funny that his fans and redditors just like always completely miss the point and try to make a big deal about how he lost his passion and likes lol now. 5. just because its a blog doesn't mean shit. people have a right to their thoughts but that doesn't mean they can't be held to account to them. I think your an idoit and wrong and I'm proving it. Seriously move onto the fact that hes screwing over his carrer in sc2 by playing lol in a korean practice house. An environment that thousands of people would kill for hes just screwing away. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
Can win GSL without a brain? Hmm. Glad I don't care about him. Bummer for you tho. + Show Spoiler + Argument about difficulty without a specific method of weighing and measuring the factors is childish. | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
it's funny we never really had such wars between bww/ wc3 / cs whatever... just everyone beeing polite and ignoring each other i guess games and their relative depth match the era they were forged in just watch how console games evolved from beeing long and hard to 79$ merchandise that can be completed under 2-3 hours playtime. | ||
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matiK23
United States963 Posts
On February 08 2012 03:30 sermokala wrote: because half your supply isn't in workers. in cod you die instantly so theres no comparison. You talk about counterjungling like its a 1/1/1 when its more like the concept of harassment in sc2. Now lets break it down and why you are a complete idoit and should go back to reddit. 1. you constantly try to do a childish insult after every point. thats just stupid and makes you look bad 2. last hitting creeps and build orders are the same. yes your point? that supports my side you where better off saying that afk farming for janglers requires even less practice. 3. You completely have no idea what the concept of counter jungling is. I have no idea how you could attribute that to rushing and you could have made the point of level 1 group fighting to try and steal a buff at the start of the game. 4. you call me a destiny fanboy because I endorse what he said? I didn't endorse anything I just pointed out that his points where valid and its funny that his fans and redditors just like always completely miss the point and try to make a big deal about how he lost his passion and likes lol now. 5. just because its a blog doesn't mean shit. people have a right to their thoughts but that doesn't mean they can't be held to account to them. I think your an idoit and wrong and I'm proving it. Seriously move onto the fact that hes screwing over his carrer in sc2 by playing lol in a korean practice house. An environment that thousands of people would kill for hes just screwing away. Childish insults? Yea because you don't have any ad hominems in your post. All my points were about how you think LoL has harder concepts, but SC2 has the same concepts that just require more APM. I'm just defending the fact that Sc2 is a hard game, not harder than. And your point about counter juggling vs stealing buffs with whole team doesn't make my point any less valid because you're describing semantics and I'm pointing out aberrations. So how about less ad hominems and more valid points on how LoL is harder. | ||
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Gann1
United States1575 Posts
Why do people care what some pseudo-celebrity said? He's only insulting himself, really. must have less than no brain if he hasn't won GSL yet. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On February 08 2012 02:35 Destiny wrote: I've made some pretty outlandish statements recently, mostly out of anger, I think, due to how fucking stupid the vocal minority in this community is. That being said, the "strategy" aspect of Starcraft 2 is insanely lacking. I've given up trying to convince casuals of that, but I'd gladly discuss that aspect with any other pro gamer, and I'm pretty certain they'd agree with me. My complaint has never been that Starcraft 2 is "hard", just that time invested into the game is everything, with strategy/intelligence taking a far far far backseat to just raw games invested. We would like to see your argument on how strategy aspect of sc2 is insanely lacking(lacking compare to wah?), and why time invested into the game is everything, and why strategy / intelligence is taking a far far far back seat. What about tactics? is that also lacking too? i'm sure someone as smart as yourself knows the difference between strategic aspect of sc2 and tactically aspect of sc2. If you compared sc2 with bw, then ya your statement make sense, sc2 is lacking, but you have not played bw, so you have no idea of how deep that rabbit hole goes.(and time invested in bw is even more a factor than sc2) Where do you draw your arguments? | ||
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