Tastosis Casting and Misanalysis - Page 5

On August 11 2011 21:21 Kraznaya wrote:

Did you even read about my example regarding the Keen all in which was not actually an all in? Not only did they mistakenly label the build, but they continued to mislabel the build, and refused to admit that they mislabeled the build, analyzing the game in a completely distorted way from the point they mislabeled the build to continue perpetuating the myth of Keen doing an all in.

On August 11 2011 21:14 Honeybadger wrote:

Analysis is for day9 dailies and that's kind of it. I think you should consider doing analysis yourself if you consider the lack of it to be a problem. Real analysis on the fly is harder than hell when you have no more time to think than the player. Try muting a code A cast, turning on your microphone recorder, and try to VOCALLY analyze the real meat of what BOTH players are doing, while still giving a play-by-play and being entertaining. Tastosis is by no means perfect at it, but I have a sneaking suspicion you have no understanding or respect for how good they really are.

On August 11 2011 21:21 mjf wrote:
I remember one game in particular, for the first 6 minutes in game they did not mention anything that had happened in game. really guys? talk about the map. talk about different tactics they can use to exploit the map. talk about different strategies, scouting..... i dont even know what they were talking about..

On August 11 2011 21:22 SeaSwift wrote:
Wow.

I agree with a few posters. You had a couple of unnecessary jabs together with some constructive criticism. I would concur on Tasteosis being out of touch, biased etc. Obviously some things don't make logical sense (partying, can't pass comment on players better than him etc), but a lot of it was well said.

What does disappoint me was the sheer amount of shit posts there are. Phrases like "take the sand out of your vagina" are just vulgar and don't help anyone. Then you get the first posters who clearly didn't even read the article. Then you get the oh-so-hilarious posts which consist of "XXX IS KILLING ESPORTS" or "TASTELESS HAS LOST HIS PASSION" with one other line related slightly to the OP for flavour.

What annoys me most is the people who miss the whole point of the article. Yes, it was nitpicky, yes, it had its irrational moments but people either a) focus on the irrational parts and ignore the rest or b) respond to the whole article with a catch-all phrase like: "Tasteosis is good, they have good chemistry."

On August 11 2011 20:57 kellymilkies wrote:
First of all, it is absolutely none of our business what they do outside of their job. I.E you saying Tasteless is partying or drinking in Seoul.

It's called relaxing after work and living his own life.

I think Tastosis in general are the best casting duo because of their chemistry.
No one in that sense is better than them.

Tasteless is DEFINITELY masters, (and a really good one at that) and he's a protoss player, plus he plays both zerg and terran.

I know this because I DO play with him and I have watched him play first hand as well.

His understanding of the game as a player is really high, and him not being an analytic caster is because of his ROLE as part of the duo as Tastosis to be the "life" of the pair.

I don't even want to discuss about Dan, because he is far-by one of the pioneer of being an analytic caster.

Predictions are occasionally wrong as a caster because the meta-game in SC2 is evolving really quickly and sometimes it is hard to predict something correctly since 2rax CAN be all in, it can be 2 rax expand, 2 rax into blue flame into banshee, I mean, if we are talking about terran play here, Terran is such a flexible race compared to analyzing Protoss or Zerg which is usually easier to read.

But hey, what do I know :p \0/~

On August 11 2011 21:28 Honeybadger wrote:


Did you understand that perhaps a caster makes a mistake every once in a while, and that I agree that sometimes their terran understanding is a bit lacking?

Did you also understand that your expectations for real analysis in real-time is completely unreasonable? Do what I mentioned in my longer post. Mute the GSL, turn on your microphone, and try talking out thorough analysis. For both sides. For all races. And give play-by-plays.

You demonstrated that you are a terran player, thoroughly (as am I)

Try casting zvz, zvp, pvp with the depth that you analyzed keen's play. Aloud in real time. Both sides. No pauses. With play by plays. And then listen to it back.

You, my friend, are not being constructive with your criticism (where there is genuine room for constructive criticism) you are instead just screaming and kicking your feet in the most classic style of nerd temper-tantrum. I've seen your kind before, and I'll yet see it again.

On August 11 2011 21:28 Honeybadger wrote:


Did you understand that perhaps a caster makes a mistake every once in a while, and that I agree that sometimes their terran understanding is a bit lacking?

Did you also understand that your expectations for real analysis in real-time is completely unreasonable? Do what I mentioned in my longer post. Mute the GSL, turn on your microphone, and try talking out thorough analysis. For both sides. For all races. And give play-by-plays.

You demonstrated that you are a terran player, thoroughly (as am I)

Try casting zvz, zvp, pvp with the depth that you analyzed keen's play. Aloud in real time. Both sides. No pauses. With play by plays. And then listen to it back.

You, my friend, are not being constructive with your criticism (where there is genuine room for constructive criticism) you are instead just screaming and kicking your feet in the most classic style of nerd temper-tantrum. I've seen your kind before, and I'll yet see it again.

On August 11 2011 21:29 Pitto wrote:


^ this
i think that the real issue is that the massive difference that hindsight makes in terms of predicting the outcome of a situation, which makes them seem like they miss an obvious play. when you look back and see the logical progression from point a to b it is natural to subconsciously see that as a logical conclusion that you could have come to quite easily, but then when put on the spot without that clear knowledge of the outcome it is very difficult and often eye opening to see the difficulty of it. its a concept that many people are often too stubborn and arrogant to accept, as well as one that many people simply dont realise.

i am not at all saying that they do not make mistakes, i am simply saying that the mistakes they make are not as bad as you make them out to be. i truly enjoy their casting very much, probably mostly for the humour, but their analysis is still very solid imo (with above factors accounted for)

On August 11 2011 21:39 Senx wrote:
But this is the thing with the SC community, its constantly looking for flaws and hating on things instead of appreciating what we have or looking at the broader picture.

Luckily Tasteless, Day9 and Artosis have stopped reading these kind of TL threads or they'd probably commited suicide by now.

You guys need to take a step back and look at what you're actually complaining about.

But seriously though, HOW DARE tasteless and artosis be wrong in anything they say, I thought they were perfectly programmed robots. Flaws are for human beings, not for robots. This is pissing me off SOO much I have to go write a blog about it. Be right back.

On August 11 2011 21:03 Immersion_ wrote:


It's true it's a really foolish thing to say, it IS true Tastless often misplaces his criticism though, you'd be fine to say he needs to think a little more before he does it sometimes.

On August 11 2011 21:05 saritenite wrote:


Not really. Hindsight is 100% better than foresight, Tasteless is a play-by-play caster. OP addresses that Tasteless unfairly criticises the players' mistakes, which I think is absolutely unfair of the OP.

Justification @ OP:
As a caster, you are going on the fly, there is no preparation whatsoever. Whatever happens, you don't know what is going to happen during an engagement, and you don't exactly have the full picture even after the engagement finishes, unless a player just crushes his opponent with a far larger supply lead.

And casters cannot stop talking to analyse the game, they would not be doing their job otherwise. If you were a caster, there's a billion things going through your mind at once, you want to say something as well as comprehend what goes on during the game.

So Tasteless spends his focus entirely on commentating, and because of his inbuilt knowledge, he more often than not spews out correct or half correct information automatically. He doesn't have time to think.

Artosis covers that blind spot of Tasteless' very well. More often than not, Artosis makes correct predictions during the downtime of games, while players are macroing or transitioning.

And I don't really think being biased towards one player ruins eSPORTs. It creates balance/better player discussions, it introduces divides, it perpetuates small amounts of drama and memes.

On August 11 2011 21:41 TMStarcraft wrote:

I refer you to this post.



If they had time to think, people would be unhappy because of all the "awkward pauses".

There are almost no natural pauses in the game where a caster can stop to gather his or her thoughts. Dual casts help with this to an extent, but now your attention is further split between listening to what your co-caster is saying so you can respond, looking all around the map, looking at the current engagement, commentating, camera control ... the list goes on.

Because of this you just run with whatever happens to come out of your mouth. Until you cast yourself, criticism like this doesn't help anyone because you don't understand how casting works. People who nitpick about the correct usage of collosus and collosi are the worst, so I'll give you that much at least.

Frankly I don't hear Artosis's bias like you do, but then again I'm watching for entertainment.

On August 11 2011 21:35 Kraznaya wrote:
I'm a university student and have a part time job. Artosis's full time job is to cast SC2 games, analyze them, and understand the scene.

If anyone could do Artosis's job, he wouldn't have the massive following that he does. If anyone could do Artosis's job, TL wouldn't burst aflame everytime Doa or Moletrap or Kelly gets selected to cast an important game. The whole point of this OP is to target the most prominent caster duo, and offer a look at where they might improve. When I see Tastosis performing under my (admittedly high) expectations, I feel as if they are not delivering the content and analysis that the foremost English SC casting team can offer.

Honestly, this in my opinion is the worst response to criticism. The fact that something is hard, or that perfection isn't attainable by humanity, isn't a legitimate response to suggesting that something could be made better.