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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
On August 11 2011 21:05 RPR_Tempest wrote: This doesn't even exist. If they're splitting their time between casting and playing they won't be good at both. Artosis has the potential to do it (his mechanics aren't good enough to be truly competitive, but his understanding of the game is there), if only he could shut out his biases and prevent them from hampering his analysis. | ||
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Vore210
Ireland256 Posts
Misreading someones play and calling them poor/all-in'ish when they aren't is worse obviously, and I have noticed some of the bias you're calling in their casts. I'm a big fan of Tastosis and I really enjoy their GSL casting (I don't think their NASL was quite up to par, they seemed a bit tired/uninterested and plugged GSL constantly, I mean more than seems reasonable) and saying they have faded over time is kinda true too. You do need to be playing this game at a truly competative level to be able to cast truly analytically - this is why people love IdrA casting even though his voice is monotonous, he makes REALLY good calls on the way the game is going. His knowledge shines through. He falls victim to anti-terran bias though, obviously. I started out in SC2 as many people recently have by watching Husky. In the beginner scene he was fun to watch and created draw for starcraft (which is a good thing) but misanalysis and bad calls do enter his casts which get jumped upon by more elitist community members. I drifted away from watching his stuff and I really appreciate casts by Tastosis these days, but I see i've let a certain bias for the high level nature (and fame) of Tastosis compared to Husky blind me to some of the flaws they actually share. In the end, this is more of a blog. Interesting post tho. | ||
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Yiska
141 Posts
On August 11 2011 21:02 Kraznaya wrote: I may not have pulled punches about my criticism, but I felt like a harsh stance was fair to further highlight the contrast to the blind devotion that Tastosis get from a large section of the viewing public. I feel bad that your valid points aren't being adressed because there definitely are some valid points in there but with the personal attacks you kind of asked for it. You know you are arguing against a bunch of mindless fanboys so it's best to do so as clean as possible. | ||
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billyX333
United States1360 Posts
try to talk for 4-5 hours straight sometimes. It only takes 1 minute of talking before I say something I am completely unprepared to defend against the scrutiny of serious nerds like you. I think its hilarious when people nit pick casters for doing their fucking job. every top player sees the game differently. I think its hilarious when some forum troll tries to argue against real time analysis over a day after the results. sounds pretty unfair imo User was warned for this post | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
Re: the argument that Tastosis can't be perfect and shouldn't be criticized because they are an asset to the community. I have already addressed that in my OP. Lack of perfection does not mean that they cannot improve, especially when their errors have such a huge impact. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On August 11 2011 21:09 Zeburial wrote: You should know that a lot of the people who like Tastosis isn't doing it with blind devotion. So far they are the ones who have been around for ages. They are the ones whom people have gone to for a great time (Streams, youtube videos + alot more). They actually do something for the community. I don't think very many of them watched the 2006 onward WCG/Blizzcon/GOM Invitiational #1 casts. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On August 11 2011 21:11 Yiska wrote: I feel bad that your valid points aren't being adressed because there definitely are some valid points in there but with the personal attacks you kind of asked for it. You know you are arguing against a bunch of mindless fanboys so it's best to do so as clean as possible. I agree with this entirely. A lot of the stuff in the OP comes off as nasty or bitter, when there really are valid criticisms to be made. | ||
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Honeybadger
United States821 Posts
Let me preface this with this: Tastosis does screw up sometimes. it's natural. And I really do wish they understood terran more, but that's never really been obvious until I watched QXC cast, and it's no fault of theirs if they don't -play- the race. Day9 plays random and isn't a great terran caster either. To add something constructive: you should try treating this as a game again. You sound sorely like the far-too-obsessive wow nerds that criticize blizzard themselves for any hiccups in lore or balance decisions that pander in any way, shape, or form, to the 95% of their player base that isn't cutting edge pvp or raiding. You want something that makes no sense for the vast majority of players, and your niche is just not going to be filled in the outlet you demand (the GSL) I suggest watching the koreans, who scream and yell and do very little actual analysis. Analysis is for day9 dailies and that's kind of it. I think you should consider doing analysis yourself if you consider the lack of it to be a problem. Real analysis on the fly is harder than hell when you have no more time to think than the player. Try muting a code A cast, turning on your microphone recorder, and try to VOCALLY analyze the real meat of what BOTH players are doing, while still giving a play-by-play and being entertaining. Tastosis is by no means perfect at it, but I have a sneaking suspicion you have no understanding or respect for how good they really are. You really want pro analysis? Stop watching a tournament designed to be entertainment. Because your nitpicking (and that's really what it is) is just asinine and has some nasty personal inflections. You're spreading rumors that you have NO basis for stating about nick's personal life (has he done a drunk cast yet? no? Then stop talking.) This post bleeds with way more emotional investment than I've ever seen artosis give to a specific player, is rude and unconstructive, and makes me really worry for the OP. He really needs a real, live friend to share starcraft with, because the game itself appears to be dominating his life in order to generate a post like that. And that's genuinely unhealthy (think this statement is offensive? it's got a lot more substance to its basis than his comment about tastless being a drunk) I'm not even going to begin on why every single thing you've said here is wrong, rude, and offensive. I'm sure others will do that. But really, man. Stop looking for reasons to get angry with your game and start looking for things to love. There are hundreds of streams, tournaments, and alternatives to tastosis. If you don't like any of them.... well.... try casting yourself or stop complaining. | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
On August 11 2011 21:12 billyX333 wrote: wow. you seem like a complete prick try to talk for 4-5 hours straight sometimes. It only takes 1 minute of talking before I say something I am completely unprepared to defend against the scrutiny of serious nerds like you. I think its hilarious when people nit pick casters for doing their fucking job. every top player sees the game differently. I think its hilarious when some forum troll tries to argue against real time analysis over a day after the results. sounds pretty unfair imo Thanks for the compliment  Like I said, obviously casters can make mistakes, but Tastosis do a very poor job of correcting mistakes and owning up to them This is a problem because many people consider their analysis golden, and they are in effect perpetuating falsehoods when they refuse to realize they are wrong after the fact. | ||
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Hermasaurus
54 Posts
"Inception". Maybe even start with the title. | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
On August 11 2011 21:16 Hermasaurus wrote: I think you should edit your post, and really look for more places to use the word "Inception". Maybe even start with the title. It's an awesome word that spawned a great movie, what can I say? | ||
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On August 11 2011 21:12 Jibba wrote: I don't think very many of them watched the 2006 onward WCG/Blizzcon/GOM Invitiational #1 casts. Watching Tasteless and Super Daniel Man cast in English led me to TL and professional BW back when I was a mere FPS player! | ||
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Sablar
Sweden880 Posts
I think they're doing a good job so I don't see why you expect casters to fully agree with you or be what you consider perfect, it's not going to happen with any casters in any sport. | ||
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Geordie
United Kingdom653 Posts
On August 11 2011 21:04 pStar wrote: First of all: Take the sand out of your vagina. Its not worth writing a essay about. Who cares if they make mistakes? I would absolutely love to see your casting. There was a pole somewhere on TL where tastosis where the favorite casters by far, I don't see why they can't disagree with what the player(s) are doing. in my opinion that's a fundamental role of casting. But seriously, 99% of the community loves Tastosis. The other 0.9% of the community dislikes them but dosent complain because they are mature. You are the 0.1% of the commnuity who really are killing eSports (all jokes aside.) Typical stupid blind fanboy. So your first point is totally rediculous, you are rediculing him for writing a well thought out post about a issue that everybody seems to be ignoring. Also the argument " I would love to see your casting " is a stupid point and it does not mean anything at all, and for the most part I think he wrote this up for tastosis to read themselves and hopefully take some his points in mind. You are saying that the OP is immature for critising Tastosis as if they are untouchable or something? I think that is something that alot of people think on TL and it is wrong. Also your saying he is killing ESPORTS. Just no. Also I think your the guy who should be taking the sand out of his vagina.. 8 ) | ||
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martinerkul
Norway10 Posts
Every caster picks a side when they see the who the match involves. Either consciously or unconsciously. And this is going to color the way he casts either he likes it or not. If it isn't because he straight up likes either player more, it could be as simple as because he thinks the name of the player looks cooler. That's just how human psychology works. What most pro-casters try to do is hide this in the cast as much as possible. Some do it better than other (Wolf to take your example), some isn't as good at it (Artosis), but it will always be there. Like it or not. To the issue with Tasteless being the funny guy, not implementing thought of his own to the game: Every caster-duo needs, as you've said, one that gives the strategic insight (Artosis, Day9, PainUser and other "pro-gamer-casters), the other brings the humor and usually has a more outgoing personality (seen from the viewers pov.). Examples are Tasteless, DJ_Wheat, TB etc. etc. It isn't necessary for Tasteless to come with his own strategic opinions. That's Artosis' job. In my opinion this is how casterduos should be. Stratetic insight when it's needed, and someone to fill in the blanks with personality and random humor, with the united goal of making the cast likeable by the viewer, leaving him with the impressions that he learned something, but still wasn't bored. I lost my train of thought mid-typing, so I'm gonna stop here. I like bringing up the subject though. Casting 'skills' should be focused on to make the lever higher and not overlooked, just as much as the SC2 community's goal is to make the players skill level grow in general. And if you feel I've just repeated what you've said putting an OK-stamp by it, instead of and DENIED-stamp. I'm sorry. [EDIT] lol @ 4 pages of text while I was writing my comment ^o) | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On August 11 2011 21:17 urashimakt wrote: The GOM Classic 1 and 2 were >>>>> 3 and Avalon.Watching Tasteless and Super Daniel Man cast in English led me to TL and professional BW back when I was a mere FPS player! For those who don't know, in BW Tasteless was the analyst/funny guy/play-by-play/time killer everything all wrapped up in one. He was unquestionably the best caster. | ||
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Honeybadger
United States821 Posts
On August 11 2011 21:14 Kraznaya wrote: Thanks for the compliment Like I said, obviously casters can make mistakes, but Tastosis do a very poor job of correcting mistakes and owning up to them This is a problem because many people consider their analysis golden, and they are in effect perpetuating falsehoods when they refuse to realize they are wrong after the fact. Seriously? How silly is that. "correcting and owning up to them?" You are really out of touch with human nature, my friend. Watch Day9 explain the "caster mishap." If they screw up, stumbling backwards over a derped up analysis will just piss EVERYONE off. If a screw up occurs, the FASTEST way to get it out of the human brain is to continue, uninterrupted. You're also asking people who talk live, UNSCRIPTED, for 4-5 hours straight, to be perfect. You aren't being reasonable with your expectations of human beings. | ||
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mjf
United States436 Posts
It just bothers me how off-topic tasteless can be. artosis as well, tasteless more so. some of their jokes i really don't like. i think they overdo the bromance. i have no problem with homosexuality but honestly they do it so much. focus on the cast/game.. I remember one game in particular, for the first 6 minutes in game they did not mention anything that had happened in game. really guys? talk about the map. talk about different tactics they can use to exploit the map. talk about different strategies, scouting..... i dont even know what they were talking about.. on the topic of analysis.. yes, i feel like tasteless' analysis is subpar. i also feel that artosis' bias is very distracting. i dunno. i feel like tastosis.. have just a slightly off interpretation of some things that the players do. they tend to criticize/praise people for weird reasons. 2c | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
On August 11 2011 21:19 Honeybadger wrote: Seriously? How silly is that. "correcting and owning up to them?" You are really out of touch with human nature, my friend. Watch Day9 explain the "caster mishap." If they screw up, stumbling backwards over a derped up analysis will just piss EVERYONE off. If a screw up occurs, the FASTEST way to get it out of the human brain is to continue, uninterrupted. You're also asking people who talk live, UNSCRIPTED, for 4-5 hours straight, to be perfect. You aren't being reasonable with your expectations of human beings. Did you even read about my example regarding the Keen all in which was not actually an all in? Not only did they mistakenly label the build, but they continued to mislabel the build, and refused to admit that they mislabeled the build, analyzing the game in a completely distorted way from the point they mislabeled the build to continue perpetuating the myth of Keen doing an all in. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
I agree with a few posters. You had a couple of unnecessary jabs together with some constructive criticism. I would concur on Tasteosis being out of touch, biased etc. Obviously some things don't make logical sense (partying, can't pass comment on players better than him etc), but a lot of it was well said. What does disappoint me was the sheer amount of shit posts there are. Phrases like "take the sand out of your vagina" are just vulgar and don't help anyone. Then you get the first posters who clearly didn't even read the article. Then you get the oh-so-hilarious posts which consist of "XXX IS KILLING ESPORTS" or "TASTELESS HAS LOST HIS PASSION" with one other line related slightly to the OP for flavour. What annoys me most is the people who miss the whole point of the article. Yes, it was nitpicky, yes, it had its irrational moments but people either a) focus on the irrational parts and ignore the rest or b) respond to the whole article with a catch-all phrase like: "Tasteosis is good, they have good chemistry." | ||
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