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Kwark made his bed and now realized he's lying on slats. he alienated/banned his sparring partners and now found himself, well ..., alone/with no one to talk to.
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edit: this post was stupid
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On October 08 2025 16:14 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 11:04 Fleetfeet wrote:I really don't think it matters. Everyone (for the most part) knows who Kwark is and knows he's a shit to pretty much anyone, if given the opportunity. I used to think he's on a pedestal because he's a mod, but that actually isn't the case as best I can tell. Other than something of a personal victory, would anything change if Kwark's modship was removed? I truly don't believe so. No, KwarK is not "a shit to everyone". He is to specific people, which is when he hates something about them, either for their political views (usually) or whatever he imagines their political views are. He also shits on people who call out the fact that he is a mod who'd be long banned if he wasn't a mod. This clearly gets to him, because he can't handle being called out. Now he's apparently on the "look, someone needs to change MP's diapers" train. Doesn't bother me very much compared to what he used to say to/about me. Still not behavior a mod should ever be allowed to display, but if people can handle it, so can I. That's not his worst behavior though by any means. His worst behavior is targeted bullying, as I explained numerous times before. BJ called him out before, and surprise surprise BJ is now gone after calling the culture around here "a cesspool". I disagreed with BJ on that, but perhaps that's because my views are more in line with the people who are acting out lately. You know, BJ never struck me as thin-skinned, quite the opposite. Lets maybe let that sink in for a second. What could've happened lately that made BJ leave?
Kwark is a shit to anyone, given the opportunity. You put "shit to everyone" in quotes as though I had written that; I had not.
You didn't answer the question, either. Do you believe anything outside of some sort of feeling of personal victory (for you) would change if Kwark's modship was removed?
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On October 09 2025 02:29 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 16:14 Magic Powers wrote:On October 08 2025 11:04 Fleetfeet wrote:I really don't think it matters. Everyone (for the most part) knows who Kwark is and knows he's a shit to pretty much anyone, if given the opportunity. I used to think he's on a pedestal because he's a mod, but that actually isn't the case as best I can tell. Other than something of a personal victory, would anything change if Kwark's modship was removed? I truly don't believe so. No, KwarK is not "a shit to everyone". He is to specific people, which is when he hates something about them, either for their political views (usually) or whatever he imagines their political views are. He also shits on people who call out the fact that he is a mod who'd be long banned if he wasn't a mod. This clearly gets to him, because he can't handle being called out. Now he's apparently on the "look, someone needs to change MP's diapers" train. Doesn't bother me very much compared to what he used to say to/about me. Still not behavior a mod should ever be allowed to display, but if people can handle it, so can I. That's not his worst behavior though by any means. His worst behavior is targeted bullying, as I explained numerous times before. BJ called him out before, and surprise surprise BJ is now gone after calling the culture around here "a cesspool". I disagreed with BJ on that, but perhaps that's because my views are more in line with the people who are acting out lately. You know, BJ never struck me as thin-skinned, quite the opposite. Lets maybe let that sink in for a second. What could've happened lately that made BJ leave? Show nested quote +Kwark is a shit to anyone, given the opportunity. You put "shit to everyone" in quotes as though I had written that; I had not.
You didn't answer the question, either. Do you believe anything + Show Spoiler + outside of some sort of feeling of personal victory (for you) would change if Kwark's modship was removed?
I know you didn't ask me, and I don't really care, but I don't see the harm in removing it then?
On October 08 2025 07:15 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think that if MP were to go to his guardian and attempt to explain his crusade to have me removed as moderator on a forum that I don't moderate + Show Spoiler +then they would agree that he needs to spend less time here.
I don't think it'll really solve anything, but don't really see a reason not to either?
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"Basically you can go fuck yourself. Now and forever." was staggeringly over any line or pretense that the thread has any standards of moderation.
The old idea of "containment" hasn't worked because every General megathread suffers the same problems.
The reason some posters don't answer habitual character assassination - which GH is also guilty of doing, despite that KwarK's posting towards GH is unfair - is first that we're adults, and second that this is how it works in practice: Almost anyone can apparently shit on another poster apropos of nothing, and it's taken as some kind of legitimate part of a thread. But if the target were to answer, then it would be a fight, and it would be unresolvable, and the person who responded would enjoy moderation, because the person who responds is the one who starts the fight, because by the act of responding they make it a fight, whereas the first person was just making an observation. Odd, but I figured it out.
This is why whether a user calls me Stormfront 5 times or KwarK calls me a Nazi, the only thing to do is realize it's because they have nothing to actually say. Unfortunately, ignoring it doesn't discourage, and in fact invites more of the same behavior.
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On October 09 2025 02:44 oBlade wrote:+ Show Spoiler +"Basically you can go fuck yourself. Now and forever." was staggeringly over any line or pretense that the thread has any standards of moderation.
The old idea of "containment" hasn't worked because every General megathread suffers the same problems.
The reason some posters don't answer habitual character assassination - which GH is also guilty of doing, despite that KwarK's posting towards GH is unfair - is first that we're adults, and second that this is how it works in practice: Almost anyone can apparently shit on another poster apropos of nothing, and it's taken as some kind of legitimate part of a thread. But if the target were to answer, then it would be a fight, and it would be unresolvable, and the person who responded would enjoy moderation, because the person who responds is the one who starts the fight, because by the act of responding they make it a fight, whereas the first person was just making an observation. Odd, but I figured it out.
This is why whether a user calls me Stormfront 5 times or KwarK calls me a Nazi, the only thing to do is realize it's because they have nothing to actually say. Unfortunately, ignoring it doesn't discourage, and in fact invites more of the same behavior.
Remarkably poignant self-observation! Well done, I didn't think you were capable.
On October 09 2025 02:38 GreenHorizons wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 09 2025 02:29 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 16:14 Magic Powers wrote:On October 08 2025 11:04 Fleetfeet wrote:I really don't think it matters. Everyone (for the most part) knows who Kwark is and knows he's a shit to pretty much anyone, if given the opportunity. I used to think he's on a pedestal because he's a mod, but that actually isn't the case as best I can tell. Other than something of a personal victory, would anything change if Kwark's modship was removed? I truly don't believe so. No, KwarK is not "a shit to everyone". He is to specific people, which is when he hates something about them, either for their political views (usually) or whatever he imagines their political views are. He also shits on people who call out the fact that he is a mod who'd be long banned if he wasn't a mod. This clearly gets to him, because he can't handle being called out. Now he's apparently on the "look, someone needs to change MP's diapers" train. Doesn't bother me very much compared to what he used to say to/about me. Still not behavior a mod should ever be allowed to display, but if people can handle it, so can I. That's not his worst behavior though by any means. His worst behavior is targeted bullying, as I explained numerous times before. BJ called him out before, and surprise surprise BJ is now gone after calling the culture around here "a cesspool". I disagreed with BJ on that, but perhaps that's because my views are more in line with the people who are acting out lately. You know, BJ never struck me as thin-skinned, quite the opposite. Lets maybe let that sink in for a second. What could've happened lately that made BJ leave? Show nested quote +Kwark is a shit to anyone, given the opportunity. You put "shit to everyone" in quotes as though I had written that; I had not.
You didn't answer the question, either. Do you believe anything + Show Spoiler + outside of some sort of feeling of personal victory (for you) would change if Kwark's modship was removed? I know you didn't ask me, and I don't really care, but I don't see the harm in removing it then? On October 08 2025 07:15 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think that if MP were to go to his guardian and attempt to explain his crusade to have me removed as moderator on a forum that I don't moderate + Show Spoiler +then they would agree that he needs to spend less time here. I don't think it'll really solve anything, but don't really see a reason not to either?
Because it isn't the problem. The problem we need to discuss isn't how much of an asshole Kwark is, it's whether or not moderation standards on USPOL and TL in general are negatively impacting discourse. Anyone's vendetta against Kwark isn't the point, and while MP does have a point (and I've mused about it before), all demodding Kwark will do is appease that vendetta, which is worthless.
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Northern Ireland25862 Posts
On October 09 2025 04:11 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2025 02:44 oBlade wrote:+ Show Spoiler +"Basically you can go fuck yourself. Now and forever." was staggeringly over any line or pretense that the thread has any standards of moderation.
The old idea of "containment" hasn't worked because every General megathread suffers the same problems.
The reason some posters don't answer habitual character assassination - which GH is also guilty of doing, despite that KwarK's posting towards GH is unfair - is first that we're adults, and second that this is how it works in practice: Almost anyone can apparently shit on another poster apropos of nothing, and it's taken as some kind of legitimate part of a thread. But if the target were to answer, then it would be a fight, and it would be unresolvable, and the person who responded would enjoy moderation, because the person who responds is the one who starts the fight, because by the act of responding they make it a fight, whereas the first person was just making an observation. Odd, but I figured it out.
This is why whether a user calls me Stormfront 5 times or KwarK calls me a Nazi, the only thing to do is realize it's because they have nothing to actually say. Unfortunately, ignoring it doesn't discourage, and in fact invites more of the same behavior. Remarkably poignant self-observation! Well done, I didn't think you were capable. Show nested quote +On October 09 2025 02:38 GreenHorizons wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 09 2025 02:29 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 16:14 Magic Powers wrote:On October 08 2025 11:04 Fleetfeet wrote:I really don't think it matters. Everyone (for the most part) knows who Kwark is and knows he's a shit to pretty much anyone, if given the opportunity. I used to think he's on a pedestal because he's a mod, but that actually isn't the case as best I can tell. Other than something of a personal victory, would anything change if Kwark's modship was removed? I truly don't believe so. No, KwarK is not "a shit to everyone". He is to specific people, which is when he hates something about them, either for their political views (usually) or whatever he imagines their political views are. He also shits on people who call out the fact that he is a mod who'd be long banned if he wasn't a mod. This clearly gets to him, because he can't handle being called out. Now he's apparently on the "look, someone needs to change MP's diapers" train. Doesn't bother me very much compared to what he used to say to/about me. Still not behavior a mod should ever be allowed to display, but if people can handle it, so can I. That's not his worst behavior though by any means. His worst behavior is targeted bullying, as I explained numerous times before. BJ called him out before, and surprise surprise BJ is now gone after calling the culture around here "a cesspool". I disagreed with BJ on that, but perhaps that's because my views are more in line with the people who are acting out lately. You know, BJ never struck me as thin-skinned, quite the opposite. Lets maybe let that sink in for a second. What could've happened lately that made BJ leave? Show nested quote +Kwark is a shit to anyone, given the opportunity. You put "shit to everyone" in quotes as though I had written that; I had not.
You didn't answer the question, either. Do you believe anything + Show Spoiler + outside of some sort of feeling of personal victory (for you) would change if Kwark's modship was removed? I know you didn't ask me, and I don't really care, but I don't see the harm in removing it then? On October 08 2025 07:15 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think that if MP were to go to his guardian and attempt to explain his crusade to have me removed as moderator on a forum that I don't moderate + Show Spoiler +then they would agree that he needs to spend less time here. I don't think it'll really solve anything, but don't really see a reason not to either? Because it isn't the problem. The problem we need to discuss isn't how much of an asshole Kwark is, it's whether or not moderation standards on USPOL and TL in general are negatively impacting discourse. Anyone's vendetta against Kwark isn't the point, and while MP does have a point (and I've mused about it before), all demodding Kwark will do is appease that vendetta, which is worthless.
Yep. I’ll stick by my general approach of not calling out individual posters.
Straw man arguments, complete derails aren’t great. People outright break explicit thread rules like giving summaries if you’re posting videos. All the time
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On October 09 2025 04:11 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2025 02:44 oBlade wrote:+ Show Spoiler +"Basically you can go fuck yourself. Now and forever." was staggeringly over any line or pretense that the thread has any standards of moderation.
The old idea of "containment" hasn't worked because every General megathread suffers the same problems.
The reason some posters don't answer habitual character assassination - which GH is also guilty of doing, despite that KwarK's posting towards GH is unfair - is first that we're adults, and second that this is how it works in practice: Almost anyone can apparently shit on another poster apropos of nothing, and it's taken as some kind of legitimate part of a thread. But if the target were to answer, then it would be a fight, and it would be unresolvable, and the person who responded would enjoy moderation, because the person who responds is the one who starts the fight, because by the act of responding they make it a fight, whereas the first person was just making an observation. Odd, but I figured it out.
This is why whether a user calls me Stormfront 5 times or KwarK calls me a Nazi, the only thing to do is realize it's because they have nothing to actually say. Unfortunately, ignoring it doesn't discourage, and in fact invites more of the same behavior. Remarkably poignant self-observation! Well done, I didn't think you were capable. Show nested quote +On October 09 2025 02:38 GreenHorizons wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 09 2025 02:29 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 16:14 Magic Powers wrote:On October 08 2025 11:04 Fleetfeet wrote:I really don't think it matters. Everyone (for the most part) knows who Kwark is and knows he's a shit to pretty much anyone, if given the opportunity. I used to think he's on a pedestal because he's a mod, but that actually isn't the case as best I can tell. Other than something of a personal victory, would anything change if Kwark's modship was removed? I truly don't believe so. No, KwarK is not "a shit to everyone". He is to specific people, which is when he hates something about them, either for their political views (usually) or whatever he imagines their political views are. He also shits on people who call out the fact that he is a mod who'd be long banned if he wasn't a mod. This clearly gets to him, because he can't handle being called out. Now he's apparently on the "look, someone needs to change MP's diapers" train. Doesn't bother me very much compared to what he used to say to/about me. Still not behavior a mod should ever be allowed to display, but if people can handle it, so can I. That's not his worst behavior though by any means. His worst behavior is targeted bullying, as I explained numerous times before. BJ called him out before, and surprise surprise BJ is now gone after calling the culture around here "a cesspool". I disagreed with BJ on that, but perhaps that's because my views are more in line with the people who are acting out lately. You know, BJ never struck me as thin-skinned, quite the opposite. Lets maybe let that sink in for a second. What could've happened lately that made BJ leave? Show nested quote +Kwark is a shit to anyone, given the opportunity. You put "shit to everyone" in quotes as though I had written that; I had not.
You didn't answer the question, either. Do you believe anything + Show Spoiler + outside of some sort of feeling of personal victory (for you) would change if Kwark's modship was removed? I know you didn't ask me, and I don't really care, but I don't see the harm in removing it then? On October 08 2025 07:15 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think that if MP were to go to his guardian and attempt to explain his crusade to have me removed as moderator on a forum that I don't moderate + Show Spoiler +then they would agree that he needs to spend less time here. I don't think it'll really solve anything, but don't really see a reason not to either? Because it isn't the problem. The problem we need to discuss isn't how much of an asshole Kwark is, it's whether or not moderation standards on USPOL and TL in general are negatively impacting discourse. Anyone's vendetta against Kwark isn't the point, and while MP does have a point (and I've mused about it before), all demodding Kwark will do is appease that vendetta, which is worthless.
That's not really a reason not to.
It'd at least stop the "because Kwark is a mod..." issues both regarding being a bad role model for other posters and that it protects him from being actioned for allegedly toxic posting that negatively impacts discourse.
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On October 09 2025 02:29 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 16:14 Magic Powers wrote:On October 08 2025 11:04 Fleetfeet wrote:I really don't think it matters. Everyone (for the most part) knows who Kwark is and knows he's a shit to pretty much anyone, if given the opportunity. I used to think he's on a pedestal because he's a mod, but that actually isn't the case as best I can tell. Other than something of a personal victory, would anything change if Kwark's modship was removed? I truly don't believe so. No, KwarK is not "a shit to everyone". He is to specific people, which is when he hates something about them, either for their political views (usually) or whatever he imagines their political views are. He also shits on people who call out the fact that he is a mod who'd be long banned if he wasn't a mod. This clearly gets to him, because he can't handle being called out. Now he's apparently on the "look, someone needs to change MP's diapers" train. Doesn't bother me very much compared to what he used to say to/about me. Still not behavior a mod should ever be allowed to display, but if people can handle it, so can I. That's not his worst behavior though by any means. His worst behavior is targeted bullying, as I explained numerous times before. BJ called him out before, and surprise surprise BJ is now gone after calling the culture around here "a cesspool". I disagreed with BJ on that, but perhaps that's because my views are more in line with the people who are acting out lately. You know, BJ never struck me as thin-skinned, quite the opposite. Lets maybe let that sink in for a second. What could've happened lately that made BJ leave? Kwark is a shit to anyone, given the opportunity. You put "shit to everyone" in quotes as though I had written that; I had not. You didn't answer the question, either. Do you believe anything outside of some sort of feeling of personal victory (for you) would change if Kwark's modship was removed?
Before I answer your question, I'm a believer in second, third, even fourth and fifth chances. I've been taking the "wait and see" approach a bunch of times. Just recently I thought KwarK had changed and improved, only to prove me wrong again. At some point every glimmer of hope has been erased and more chances are nonsensical.
That's the point I think we're currently at. Some people only change when they're forced to change. KwarK, to me, appears to be such a person regarding his mod status. If he retains his mod status, the chances of forum culture recovering are zero. I'm baffled that someone like Wombat is defending KwarK's behavior. He used to always be the voice of reason and balance, but now he's literally approving mods breaking forum rules. To me that's a sign that forum culture has eroded and we've reached a very low point. Mods are supposed to be above rule breaking, which is the deal they (hypothetically) sign to earn their badge.
So logically in my mind if KwarK has his mod powers removed, that would instantly lead to a massive improvement of forum culture. It would not only mean that mods are beholden to the same rules as everybody else, it would also imply that all forum users will be warned/banned according to their rule breaking behavior, and exceptions to that will have to be within reason.
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On October 09 2025 05:06 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2025 04:11 Fleetfeet wrote:On October 09 2025 02:44 oBlade wrote:+ Show Spoiler +"Basically you can go fuck yourself. Now and forever." was staggeringly over any line or pretense that the thread has any standards of moderation.
The old idea of "containment" hasn't worked because every General megathread suffers the same problems.
The reason some posters don't answer habitual character assassination - which GH is also guilty of doing, despite that KwarK's posting towards GH is unfair - is first that we're adults, and second that this is how it works in practice: Almost anyone can apparently shit on another poster apropos of nothing, and it's taken as some kind of legitimate part of a thread. But if the target were to answer, then it would be a fight, and it would be unresolvable, and the person who responded would enjoy moderation, because the person who responds is the one who starts the fight, because by the act of responding they make it a fight, whereas the first person was just making an observation. Odd, but I figured it out.
This is why whether a user calls me Stormfront 5 times or KwarK calls me a Nazi, the only thing to do is realize it's because they have nothing to actually say. Unfortunately, ignoring it doesn't discourage, and in fact invites more of the same behavior. Remarkably poignant self-observation! Well done, I didn't think you were capable. On October 09 2025 02:38 GreenHorizons wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 09 2025 02:29 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 16:14 Magic Powers wrote:On October 08 2025 11:04 Fleetfeet wrote:I really don't think it matters. Everyone (for the most part) knows who Kwark is and knows he's a shit to pretty much anyone, if given the opportunity. I used to think he's on a pedestal because he's a mod, but that actually isn't the case as best I can tell. Other than something of a personal victory, would anything change if Kwark's modship was removed? I truly don't believe so. No, KwarK is not "a shit to everyone". He is to specific people, which is when he hates something about them, either for their political views (usually) or whatever he imagines their political views are. He also shits on people who call out the fact that he is a mod who'd be long banned if he wasn't a mod. This clearly gets to him, because he can't handle being called out. Now he's apparently on the "look, someone needs to change MP's diapers" train. Doesn't bother me very much compared to what he used to say to/about me. Still not behavior a mod should ever be allowed to display, but if people can handle it, so can I. That's not his worst behavior though by any means. His worst behavior is targeted bullying, as I explained numerous times before. BJ called him out before, and surprise surprise BJ is now gone after calling the culture around here "a cesspool". I disagreed with BJ on that, but perhaps that's because my views are more in line with the people who are acting out lately. You know, BJ never struck me as thin-skinned, quite the opposite. Lets maybe let that sink in for a second. What could've happened lately that made BJ leave? Show nested quote +Kwark is a shit to anyone, given the opportunity. You put "shit to everyone" in quotes as though I had written that; I had not.
You didn't answer the question, either. Do you believe anything + Show Spoiler + outside of some sort of feeling of personal victory (for you) would change if Kwark's modship was removed? I know you didn't ask me, and I don't really care, but I don't see the harm in removing it then? On October 08 2025 07:15 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think that if MP were to go to his guardian and attempt to explain his crusade to have me removed as moderator on a forum that I don't moderate + Show Spoiler +then they would agree that he needs to spend less time here. I don't think it'll really solve anything, but don't really see a reason not to either? Because it isn't the problem. The problem we need to discuss isn't how much of an asshole Kwark is, it's whether or not moderation standards on USPOL and TL in general are negatively impacting discourse. Anyone's vendetta against Kwark isn't the point, and while MP does have a point (and I've mused about it before), all demodding Kwark will do is appease that vendetta, which is worthless. That's not really a reason not to. It'd at least stop the "because Kwark is a mod..." issues both regarding being a bad role model for other posters and that it protects him from being actioned for allegedly toxic posting that negatively impacts discourse.
I don't know where you get the logic of "well if it doesn't change anything either way lets just do it anyway". People posting in bad faith against Kwark because their only argument is that he has a power he doesn't use in the thread and has never alluded to in the thread isn't kwarks problem its theirs. Rewarding the type of behavior of calling for things being taken away from people based on the delusions of others is bad.
The types of people who post "beacuse Kwark is a mod" won't just stop once you appease them with one cookie you're showing them that their behavior isn't just correct, its good. They'll move onto "Kwarks being protected beacuse hes friends with and was a mod for a while". Something does change when you do something.
The absolute nonsense that someone like Oblade will start posting in good faith or GH will start engaging with what people ask him just because you change an icon on a completely different poster should be embarrassing.
The mega-thread was created because people didn't want to mod it because then they would become the target of harassment and questions based on their perceived political bias against posters. The Thread we're posting in now was created beacuse one guy couldn't stop meta-posting and then got banned.
If you can find me half a dozen people who are okay with donating their time energy and emotion into moderating the thread then sure lets de-mod kwark for no reason and raise the standards in the thread. Either put the horse before the cart or stop bitching that the cart is slow.
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On October 08 2025 23:11 farvacola wrote:
I just want to thank everyone for doing their part to keep the spirit of 2011 alive.
Our bodies age but our maturity will never change!
On October 08 2025 23:57 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 22:01 Nebuchad wrote:On October 08 2025 21:47 Magic Powers wrote:On October 08 2025 21:45 Nebuchad wrote:
At the risk of being glib, none of this is new. I don't see anything that's happening right now that hasn't happened for like ten years. It's all right. Frankly, you have a right to feel whichever way you want, but this isn't just about you. This is only the most recent example that motivated me to show people how aggressively antagonistic KwarK has become as of late. The many excuses for his behavior are just proof that he gets away with it because people knowingly turn a blind eye. I just read that post and went "okay another clown post by Kwark" and then I went on with my day, I don't think it's very serious. It's not just Kwark posting like this, there's a few of them out there. In the case of people answering to GH it's been going on for years. They've clearly decided that posting like this is okay, so singling out Kwark now would be weird. Yeah, pretty much this. I think it got noticeably worse when I stopped engaging with JimmiC's shitposting. Ironically, now all the people complaining about those exchanges do is have even more braindead bad faith exchanges of shitposting with right-wingers and emotionally lash out at anyone suggesting that's vapid.
This post is such an epic self own. You point out that without a target for your relentless dickishness and condescension, that you turned it on everyone left and now a whole bunch of people are reacting to you the way JimmiC always did. Hell even those that used to stand up for you and hated JimmiC for how unfair and mean he was to you now treat you as bad or worse than he ever did. Turns out almost no one likes having their morality constantly attacked by someone who says basically nothing, or very little on repeat. I think the genocide stuff is over 350 times! and who knows how high the high ironic mocking and gawking count will get.
And just to make this post the piece de resistance of your decade plus of awful posting you finish it with your blanket attack at basically everybody who is not you, accusing all of something you are one of the worst offenders of, with your patented charm.
If this was on purpose and not just the extreme lack of self awareness it would be truly amazing.
On October 09 2025 00:18 ChristianS wrote:
I’m not sure whether this was ever a fully explicit thread rule but mods used to talk sometimes about no grudge-holding. That’s a little bit fuzzy to define, but I took it to mean: obviously you’ll take a poster’s history into account in reading and responding to their posts, but if they’re responding to something new and all you’re doing is dredging up some old argument so you can rehash it, maybe just don’t and save everybody some time.
Whether or not it’s action-worthy, I do think Kwark runs afoul of that principle with GH. It kinda reminds me of LegalLord’s “electable delectable” thing. And I thought that bit was kinda funny, and even after it got annoying I still sort of admired the performance art of it, but it was just kinda clear that, like, we’re all trying to talk about Topic B and he’s dragging us back to Topic A, not to say anything new about it, but to remind us he still feels the way he did last time he brought it up.
For the record I’d file this under “constructive feedback for Kwark” and not “me begging for mod action against Kwark” but I thought it might describe the dynamic people are taking issue with (well, one of them at least).
This would be fantastic for better conversation, but it is highly unlikely. I have a strong belief that someone could leave the thread for months and months, come back on a new account, not do any of the things that people were mad at, and the grudge holders would seek them out and attack them as much as possible to try to bring back the old way. Hell they would do it even when they were not sure.
That's my theory anyway, someone should try it. It would be a fun experiment.
On October 09 2025 02:44 oBlade wrote:+ Show Spoiler +"Basically you can go fuck yourself. Now and forever." was staggeringly over any line or pretense that the thread has any standards of moderation.
The old idea of "containment" hasn't worked because every General megathread suffers the same problems.
The reason some posters don't answer habitual character assassination - which GH is also guilty of doing, despite that KwarK's posting towards GH is unfair - is first that we're adults, and second that this is how it works in practice: Almost anyone can apparently shit on another poster apropos of nothing, and it's taken as some kind of legitimate part of a thread. But if the target were to answer, then it would be a fight, and it would be unresolvable, and the person who responded would enjoy moderation, because the person who responds is the one who starts the fight, because by the act of responding they make it a fight, whereas the first person was just making an observation. Odd, but I figured it out. + Show Spoiler +This is why whether a user calls me Stormfront 5 times or KwarK calls me a Nazi, the only thing to do is realize it's because they have nothing to actually say. Unfortunately, ignoring it doesn't discourage, and in fact invites more of the same behavior.
I do not often give you credit for being insightful but you really nailed this. In hockey it is very common for the person retaliating to the get the penalty. In hockey that makes sense because the initial act is not seen by the Ref. Here it is all written and saved so you think people would look back, but they do not.
GH was really the master of this when he was getting people banned and in fights with many. He would even reply to others but get his jab in at the target of the day then pretend he was not engaging or was the victim. The low amount of posters and speed of the thread now a days have taken away this tool and it has become obvious to almost everyone, instead of just the targets, what he is all about. But he sure had it mastered and fooled many. It is pretty wild how many people thought it was his politics that was upsetting people.
Which brings us to the now
And we all have quite a gift, there is only like 20 posters and I'm pretty sure everyone is an adult (at least in biological age). The mods have stepped back and basically ignore this thread. So we can pick how the political threads go. If everyone wants great discussion with people all over the world, with different opinions and experiences, that can happen. If we want to insult people, land sick burns and one liners, call people complicit in genocide over and over and over and over, we can do that too.
We have the power. So if you enjoy Kwarks style, read his posts and engage, sure he is abrasive, but he also knows a lot of shit and thinks about things in an interesting way. He is not nice about it, but he also has not drawn political lines and is fair in that he insults everyone (or at least is willing to). I would, and did have a problem when he was getting away with way more than anyone else could. But that is not the case anymore, If you want you can go just as hard at him as he does at you and nothing will happen to you (well Kwark will happen to you, but I mean moderation won't and you can go back at him and have good spar).
Same for everyone else, engage with who you want how you want and ignore the rest. You do not have to read everything and you do not have to respond even if you are being mischaracterized or attacked. Just quote one of the greatest hero's of all time He-Man and realize I have the power
Sure it is a bit like the wild west, but that puts the agency on the posters to make this forum however we want. If we all stop being a lot less shitty some of the higher quality discussions of the past might come back. And some of those that left because of all the shittyness might make an appearance from time to time. Who knows!
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United States43116 Posts
I think there are a few steps missing there in your plan.
1. Remove a button that I don’t use
3. All forum users will be warned/banned for their rule breaking posts
5. Massive improvement in discussion.
You’re also going to need to recruit some new mods, get a lot of new/better posters, and discuss something less incendiary than the current state of US politics. It might be easier to just make your own forum and start over. Falling that you could take the GH approach and make a blog with a “no kwarks” rule.
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On October 09 2025 05:11 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2025 05:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 09 2025 04:11 Fleetfeet wrote:On October 09 2025 02:44 oBlade wrote:+ Show Spoiler +"Basically you can go fuck yourself. Now and forever." was staggeringly over any line or pretense that the thread has any standards of moderation.
The old idea of "containment" hasn't worked because every General megathread suffers the same problems.
The reason some posters don't answer habitual character assassination - which GH is also guilty of doing, despite that KwarK's posting towards GH is unfair - is first that we're adults, and second that this is how it works in practice: Almost anyone can apparently shit on another poster apropos of nothing, and it's taken as some kind of legitimate part of a thread. But if the target were to answer, then it would be a fight, and it would be unresolvable, and the person who responded would enjoy moderation, because the person who responds is the one who starts the fight, because by the act of responding they make it a fight, whereas the first person was just making an observation. Odd, but I figured it out.
This is why whether a user calls me Stormfront 5 times or KwarK calls me a Nazi, the only thing to do is realize it's because they have nothing to actually say. Unfortunately, ignoring it doesn't discourage, and in fact invites more of the same behavior. Remarkably poignant self-observation! Well done, I didn't think you were capable. On October 09 2025 02:38 GreenHorizons wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 09 2025 02:29 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 16:14 Magic Powers wrote:On October 08 2025 11:04 Fleetfeet wrote:I really don't think it matters. Everyone (for the most part) knows who Kwark is and knows he's a shit to pretty much anyone, if given the opportunity. I used to think he's on a pedestal because he's a mod, but that actually isn't the case as best I can tell. Other than something of a personal victory, would anything change if Kwark's modship was removed? I truly don't believe so. No, KwarK is not "a shit to everyone". He is to specific people, which is when he hates something about them, either for their political views (usually) or whatever he imagines their political views are. He also shits on people who call out the fact that he is a mod who'd be long banned if he wasn't a mod. This clearly gets to him, because he can't handle being called out. Now he's apparently on the "look, someone needs to change MP's diapers" train. Doesn't bother me very much compared to what he used to say to/about me. Still not behavior a mod should ever be allowed to display, but if people can handle it, so can I. That's not his worst behavior though by any means. His worst behavior is targeted bullying, as I explained numerous times before. BJ called him out before, and surprise surprise BJ is now gone after calling the culture around here "a cesspool". I disagreed with BJ on that, but perhaps that's because my views are more in line with the people who are acting out lately. You know, BJ never struck me as thin-skinned, quite the opposite. Lets maybe let that sink in for a second. What could've happened lately that made BJ leave? Show nested quote +Kwark is a shit to anyone, given the opportunity. You put "shit to everyone" in quotes as though I had written that; I had not.
You didn't answer the question, either. Do you believe anything + Show Spoiler + outside of some sort of feeling of personal victory (for you) would change if Kwark's modship was removed? I know you didn't ask me, and I don't really care, but I don't see the harm in removing it then? On October 08 2025 07:15 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think that if MP were to go to his guardian and attempt to explain his crusade to have me removed as moderator on a forum that I don't moderate + Show Spoiler +then they would agree that he needs to spend less time here. I don't think it'll really solve anything, but don't really see a reason not to either? Because it isn't the problem. The problem we need to discuss isn't how much of an asshole Kwark is, it's whether or not moderation standards on USPOL and TL in general are negatively impacting discourse. Anyone's vendetta against Kwark isn't the point, and while MP does have a point (and I've mused about it before), all demodding Kwark will do is appease that vendetta, which is worthless. That's not really a reason not to. It'd at least stop the "because Kwark is a mod..." issues both regarding being a bad role model for other posters and that it protects him from being actioned for allegedly toxic posting that negatively impacts discourse. I don't know where you get the logic of "well if it doesn't change anything either way lets just do it anyway". People posting in bad faith against Kwark because their only argument is that he has a power he doesn't use in the thread and has never alluded to in the thread isn't kwarks problem its theirs. Rewarding the type of behavior of calling for things being taken away from people based on the delusions of others is bad. The types of people who post "beacuse Kwark is a mod" won't just stop once you appease them with one cookie you're showing them that their behavior isn't just correct, its good. They'll move onto "Kwarks being protected beacuse hes friends with and was a mod for a while". Something does change when you do something. The absolute nonsense that someone like Oblade will start posting in good faith or GH will start engaging with what people ask him just because you change an icon on a completely different poster should be embarrassing. The mega-thread was created because people didn't want to mod it because then they would become the target of harassment and questions based on their perceived political bias against posters. If you can find me half a dozen people who are okay with donating their time energy and emotion into moderating the thread then sure lets de-mod kwark for no reason and raise the standards in the thread.
From reading your argument I get the impression that you think KwarK's mod status has/should practically have no impact on forum culture. But evidently it does, and here's why.
KwarK will never be warned or banned despite breaking rules. Other rule-breaking forum users will, in most instances, be warned or banned. This means the "give and take" dynamic between KwarK and other individuals - which has been proposed as the "solution" for his behavior - is in fact not a give and take, it's KwarK punching down and people ducking under him.
If KwarK's behavior was exclusive to minor slights and proportionate antagonism, and nothing as severe as rule breaking, then the proposed "solution" would - while in my opinion still not a real solution - at least be suitable in theory. As is, it's not even suitable in theory, let alone in practice.
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On October 09 2025 05:20 KwarK wrote:
I think there are a few steps missing there in your plan.
1. Remove a button that I don’t use
3. All forum users will be warned/banned for their rule breaking posts
5. Massive improvement in discussion.
You’re also going to need to recruit some new mods, get a lot of new/better posters, and discuss something less incendiary than the current state of US politics. It might be easier to just make your own forum and start over. Falling that you could take the GH approach and make a blog with a “no kwarks” rule.
You are using your mod power. You can't get warned or banned. Is the game theory behind this fact unclear to you?
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On October 09 2025 05:20 KwarK wrote:
I think there are a few steps missing there in your plan.
1. Remove a button that I don’t use
3. All forum users will be warned/banned for their rule breaking posts
5. Massive improvement in discussion.
You’re also going to need to recruit some new mods, get a lot of new/better posters, and discuss something less incendiary than the current state of US politics. It might be easier to just make your own forum and start over. Falling that you could take the GH approach and make a blog with a “no kwarks” rule.
But then you could still go since one KwarK would be allowed.
+ Show Spoiler +https://www.google.com/search?q=no+homers+allowed&sca_esv=1e7dfcb5e01aab5a&sxsrf=AE3TifPPlZhU6Ush3NFGO2w-ZPKWATAayw%3A1759955418777&source=hp&ei=2snmaLmGLZrGp84Pw-KUsAw&iflsig=AOw8s4IAAAAAaObX6oXh6HIwmDQo1AhcppA4tvI_g0Ee&oq=no+homers+&gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6IgpubyBob21lcnMgKgIIATIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgARI2h5QAFi7EXACeACQAQGYAZQCoAHoE6oBBTAuNC44uAEDyAEA-AEBmAINoALJEsICBBAjGCfCAgsQLhiABBiKBRiRAsICERAuGIAEGIoFGJECGMcBGNEDwgIKEC4YgAQYigUYQ8ICCxAuGIAEGLEDGIMBwgIOEAAYgAQYigUYsQMYgwHCAgsQABiABBixAxiDAcICCxAAGIAEGIoFGJECwgIKEAAYgAQYigUYQ8ICDRAuGIAEGIoFGEMY1ALCAgsQABiABBiKBRixA8ICDRAuGIAEGBQYhwIYsQPCAg4QLhiABBixAxjHARjRA8ICBRAuGIAEwgIIEAAYgAQYsQPCAg0QLhhDGLEDGIAEGIoFwgIIEC4YgAQYsQPCAhAQABiABBiKBRhDGLEDGIMBwgINEC4YgAQYigUYQxixA8ICCBAAGIAEGMcDmAMAkgcFMi4zLjigB_5ZsgcFMC4zLji4B7MSwgcHMC4yLjQuN8gHXg&sclient=gws-wiz#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:7235603b,vid:W7rSYzbpA8k,st:0
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On October 09 2025 05:25 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2025 05:11 Sermokala wrote:On October 09 2025 05:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 09 2025 04:11 Fleetfeet wrote:On October 09 2025 02:44 oBlade wrote:+ Show Spoiler +"Basically you can go fuck yourself. Now and forever." was staggeringly over any line or pretense that the thread has any standards of moderation.
The old idea of "containment" hasn't worked because every General megathread suffers the same problems.
The reason some posters don't answer habitual character assassination - which GH is also guilty of doing, despite that KwarK's posting towards GH is unfair - is first that we're adults, and second that this is how it works in practice: Almost anyone can apparently shit on another poster apropos of nothing, and it's taken as some kind of legitimate part of a thread. But if the target were to answer, then it would be a fight, and it would be unresolvable, and the person who responded would enjoy moderation, because the person who responds is the one who starts the fight, because by the act of responding they make it a fight, whereas the first person was just making an observation. Odd, but I figured it out.
This is why whether a user calls me Stormfront 5 times or KwarK calls me a Nazi, the only thing to do is realize it's because they have nothing to actually say. Unfortunately, ignoring it doesn't discourage, and in fact invites more of the same behavior. Remarkably poignant self-observation! Well done, I didn't think you were capable. On October 09 2025 02:38 GreenHorizons wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 09 2025 02:29 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 16:14 Magic Powers wrote:On October 08 2025 11:04 Fleetfeet wrote:I really don't think it matters. Everyone (for the most part) knows who Kwark is and knows he's a shit to pretty much anyone, if given the opportunity. I used to think he's on a pedestal because he's a mod, but that actually isn't the case as best I can tell. Other than something of a personal victory, would anything change if Kwark's modship was removed? I truly don't believe so. No, KwarK is not "a shit to everyone". He is to specific people, which is when he hates something about them, either for their political views (usually) or whatever he imagines their political views are. He also shits on people who call out the fact that he is a mod who'd be long banned if he wasn't a mod. This clearly gets to him, because he can't handle being called out. Now he's apparently on the "look, someone needs to change MP's diapers" train. Doesn't bother me very much compared to what he used to say to/about me. Still not behavior a mod should ever be allowed to display, but if people can handle it, so can I. That's not his worst behavior though by any means. His worst behavior is targeted bullying, as I explained numerous times before. BJ called him out before, and surprise surprise BJ is now gone after calling the culture around here "a cesspool". I disagreed with BJ on that, but perhaps that's because my views are more in line with the people who are acting out lately. You know, BJ never struck me as thin-skinned, quite the opposite. Lets maybe let that sink in for a second. What could've happened lately that made BJ leave? Show nested quote +Kwark is a shit to anyone, given the opportunity. You put "shit to everyone" in quotes as though I had written that; I had not.
You didn't answer the question, either. Do you believe anything + Show Spoiler + outside of some sort of feeling of personal victory (for you) would change if Kwark's modship was removed? I know you didn't ask me, and I don't really care, but I don't see the harm in removing it then? On October 08 2025 07:15 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think that if MP were to go to his guardian and attempt to explain his crusade to have me removed as moderator on a forum that I don't moderate + Show Spoiler +then they would agree that he needs to spend less time here. I don't think it'll really solve anything, but don't really see a reason not to either? Because it isn't the problem. The problem we need to discuss isn't how much of an asshole Kwark is, it's whether or not moderation standards on USPOL and TL in general are negatively impacting discourse. Anyone's vendetta against Kwark isn't the point, and while MP does have a point (and I've mused about it before), all demodding Kwark will do is appease that vendetta, which is worthless. That's not really a reason not to. It'd at least stop the "because Kwark is a mod..." issues both regarding being a bad role model for other posters and that it protects him from being actioned for allegedly toxic posting that negatively impacts discourse. I don't know where you get the logic of "well if it doesn't change anything either way lets just do it anyway". People posting in bad faith against Kwark because their only argument is that he has a power he doesn't use in the thread and has never alluded to in the thread isn't kwarks problem its theirs. Rewarding the type of behavior of calling for things being taken away from people based on the delusions of others is bad. The types of people who post "beacuse Kwark is a mod" won't just stop once you appease them with one cookie you're showing them that their behavior isn't just correct, its good. They'll move onto "Kwarks being protected beacuse hes friends with and was a mod for a while". Something does change when you do something. The absolute nonsense that someone like Oblade will start posting in good faith or GH will start engaging with what people ask him just because you change an icon on a completely different poster should be embarrassing. The mega-thread was created because people didn't want to mod it because then they would become the target of harassment and questions based on their perceived political bias against posters. If you can find me half a dozen people who are okay with donating their time energy and emotion into moderating the thread then sure lets de-mod kwark for no reason and raise the standards in the thread. From reading your argument I get the impression that you think KwarK's mod status has/should practically have no impact on forum culture. But evidently it does, and here's why. KwarK will never be warned or banned despite breaking rules. Other rule-breaking forum users will, in most instances, be warned or banned. This means the "give and take" dynamic between KwarK and other individuals - which has been proposed as the "solution" for his behavior - is in fact not a give and take, it's KwarK punching down and people ducking under him. If KwarK's behavior was exclusive to minor slights and proportionate antagonism, and nothing as severe as rule breaking, then the proposed "solution" would - while in my opinion still not a real solution - at least be suitable in theory. As is, it's not even suitable in theory, let alone in practice.
Thats not what I think nor is that what "evidently" means. You're making a theoretical argument that if kwark was demodded he would receive the same warnings and bans that other posters arn't getting because they arn't attacking kwark the same way that they're attacking others.
The behavior of other people isn't going to change and you don't even make the argument for other people behavior changing. What you're arguing for is to keep kwarks mod status because, at least in that case you have one series of interactions where bad behavior isn't happening, that people post decently when interacting with kwark. You can't take away the mod status of people who don't have mod status to punish them. And you're not going to punish everyone "Fairly" if you don't have mods who are somehow unbiased but also understand the conversations and styles of everyone involved.
If we followed the logic you're proposing, we should be making everyone a mod in the thread, that way anyone new would be inoculated into learning bad behavior, and over time as posters are replaced the culture improves by attrition of the older worse posters with the newer better behaved posters.
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United States43116 Posts
On October 09 2025 05:28 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2025 05:20 KwarK wrote:
I think there are a few steps missing there in your plan.
1. Remove a button that I don’t use
3. All forum users will be warned/banned for their rule breaking posts
5. Massive improvement in discussion.
You’re also going to need to recruit some new mods, get a lot of new/better posters, and discuss something less incendiary than the current state of US politics. It might be easier to just make your own forum and start over. Falling that you could take the GH approach and make a blog with a “no kwarks” rule. You are using your mod power. You can't get warned or banned. Is the game theory behind this fact unclear to you?
I could absolutely be warned or banned were others on the moderation team so inclined. If the powers that be were resolved to remove me I would have no more recourse than anyone else. I don’t know what mechanism you’re even thinking of that would prevent it. I’m not in the union, I’m not in a protected class, I don’t have the right to a tribunal. Technically I’m not even a full mod, I’m a subclass called banling, for a lot of stuff I’d have to message a full mod to do it because I don’t have the buttons.
Before a forum veteran is moderated there’s generally a quick chat between mods for look for consensus. In the event that another moderator wanted to moderate me the process would be no different and if the consensus was reached then there would be no barrier.
That’s part of why your protestations about my power are so strange. If, for example, eriador wanted me gone I’d have no more protection than you’d have. But I can understand your lack of familiarity with the process.
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United States43116 Posts
I wonder if we could turn moderation of the topic over to the people. Establish an Athenian style system of Ostracism. If someone has had enough of another poster then they nominate them for ostracism and if the motion receives a second then the vote is opened. Posters of good standing (regular US pol posters, no alt accounts) PM a moderator with aye or nay. Assuming a quorum is reached the nominated individual is either informed that they can't post in the topic for a given period or is allowed to continue posting with immunity from immediate renominations for a period.
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On October 09 2025 05:51 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2025 05:28 Magic Powers wrote:On October 09 2025 05:20 KwarK wrote:
I think there are a few steps missing there in your plan.
1. Remove a button that I don’t use
3. All forum users will be warned/banned for their rule breaking posts
5. Massive improvement in discussion.
You’re also going to need to recruit some new mods, get a lot of new/better posters, and discuss something less incendiary than the current state of US politics. It might be easier to just make your own forum and start over. Falling that you could take the GH approach and make a blog with a “no kwarks” rule. You are using your mod power. You can't get warned or banned. Is the game theory behind this fact unclear to you? I could absolutely be warned or banned were others on the moderation team so inclined. If the powers that be were resolved to remove me I would have no more recourse than anyone else. I don’t know what mechanism you’re even thinking of that would prevent it. I’m not in the union, I’m not in a protected class, I don’t have the right to a tribunal. Technically I’m not even a full mod, I’m a subclass called banling, for a lot of stuff I’d have to message a full mod to do it because I don’t have the buttons. Before a forum veteran is moderated there’s generally a quick chat between mods for look for consensus. In the event that another moderator wanted to moderate me the process would be no different and if the consensus was reached then there would be no barrier. That’s part of why your protestations about my power are so strange. If, for example, eriador wanted me gone I’d have no more protection than you’d have. But I can understand your lack of familiarity with the process.
If you're not protected, why are you not getting banned for breaking forum rules multiple times? Why are you currently not banned?
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United States43116 Posts
On October 09 2025 06:27 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2025 05:51 KwarK wrote:On October 09 2025 05:28 Magic Powers wrote:On October 09 2025 05:20 KwarK wrote:
I think there are a few steps missing there in your plan.
1. Remove a button that I don’t use
3. All forum users will be warned/banned for their rule breaking posts
5. Massive improvement in discussion.
You’re also going to need to recruit some new mods, get a lot of new/better posters, and discuss something less incendiary than the current state of US politics. It might be easier to just make your own forum and start over. Falling that you could take the GH approach and make a blog with a “no kwarks” rule. You are using your mod power. You can't get warned or banned. Is the game theory behind this fact unclear to you? I could absolutely be warned or banned were others on the moderation team so inclined. If the powers that be were resolved to remove me I would have no more recourse than anyone else. I don’t know what mechanism you’re even thinking of that would prevent it. I’m not in the union, I’m not in a protected class, I don’t have the right to a tribunal. Technically I’m not even a full mod, I’m a subclass called banling, for a lot of stuff I’d have to message a full mod to do it because I don’t have the buttons. Before a forum veteran is moderated there’s generally a quick chat between mods for look for consensus. In the event that another moderator wanted to moderate me the process would be no different and if the consensus was reached then there would be no barrier. That’s part of why your protestations about my power are so strange. If, for example, eriador wanted me gone I’d have no more protection than you’d have. But I can understand your lack of familiarity with the process. If you're not protected, why are you not getting banned for breaking forum rules multiple times? Why are you currently not banned?
It’s difficult to answer the question of why something hasn’t happened. I could say because no mod wants me banned, but that answer is circular and probably unsatisfactory.
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EPT
